At Disney, Mission: Space spurs most complaints

[mjgruber]

Let me get this right, Disney and Mission Space are not under the Jurisdiction of Florida's oversight and when they send someone to investigate it is the "Fairgrounds" staff ( i.e. Teacups ).....

You would think the President's brother was the Governor or something .....What?

 

[CanadianGuy]

You would think that.. but this is the way Disney negotiated with the Florida Gov't way back in the day.

Disney also gets to handle all environmental concerns within the Reedy Creek Development area as it sees fit.

Disney has a lot of 'unique' things set up around the RCD area.

 

[Another Voice]

The Reedy Creek Improvement District exempts Walt Disney World from oversight by country and inter-county agencies. This includes everything from zoning laws to building codes, local taxes, development impact assessments, and local law & highway enforcement. Disney can issue their own tax free bonds. In effect, WDW is a “super county” in the state of Florida.

Within the boundaries of properties, Disney incorporated to cities (The City of Bay Lake and The City of Lake Buena Vista) that have full municipal authority – including police and fire protection, local building codes, etc. These cities are trailer parks with about a dozen families, Disney employees all, on WDW property.

WDW is not exempt, per se from state authority, however the RCID agreements do specify some special treatment Disney gets (such as Disney keeps a good portion of the sales tax they charge you). In the mid 1960s, theme park safety wasn’t an issue regulated by the state. It was only in the past few years, and because of numerous well publicized cases throughout the country, that states have been looking at this. Disney is fighting state regulation extremely hard. They have already lost the battle in California following a string of deaths and injuries at Disneyland. At the moment in Florida the state Department of Agriculture “oversees” fairs and amusement parks.

Disney is not exempt from federal laws – especially the environmental ones. The Reedy and Kissimmee Creeks are headwaters for the Florida Everglades and are considered especially sensitive. Disney has been fined numerous times for violating environmental laws – from toxic waste storage to poisoning and maltreating birds to killing endangered species (to build the Animal Kingdom of all things). Disney was also forced to buy 50,000 acres of wetlands and turn if over to a foundation to offset the destruction of Disney’s own Conversation Area (again, for the Animal Kingdom).

 

[flatline]

The Reedy Creek Improvement District exempts Walt Disney World from oversight by country and inter-county agencies. This includes everything from zoning laws to building codes, local taxes, development impact assessments, and local law & highway enforcement. Disney can issue their own tax free bonds. In effect, WDW is a “super county” in the state of Florida.

Within the boundaries of properties, Disney incorporated to cities (The City of Bay Lake and The City of Lake Buena Vista) that have full municipal authority – including police and fire protection, local building codes, etc. These cities are trailer parks with about a dozen families, Disney employees all, on WDW property.

WDW is not exempt, per se from state authority, however the RCID agreements do specify some special treatment Disney gets (such as Disney keeps a good portion of the sales tax they charge you). In the mid 1960s, theme park safety wasn’t an issue regulated by the state. It was only in the past few years, and because of numerous well publicized cases throughout the country, that states have been looking at this. Disney is fighting state regulation extremely hard. They have already lost the battle in California following a string of deaths and injuries at Disneyland. At the moment in Florida the state Department of Agriculture “oversees” fairs and amusement parks.

Disney is not exempt from federal laws – especially the environmental ones. The Reedy and Kissimmee Creeks are headwaters for the Florida Everglades and are considered especially sensitive. Disney has been fined numerous times for violating environmental laws – from toxic waste storage to poisoning and maltreating birds to killing endangered species (to build the Animal Kingdom of all things). Disney was also forced to buy 50,000 acres of wetlands and turn if over to a foundation to offset the destruction of Disney’s own Conversation Area (again, for the Animal Kingdom).

the massive reconstruction of I-192 and the area of I-4 on the west gate I have to deal with...any idea of the scope of RC's involvement with the project, if any?

 

[pugdog]

From some medical experts.

German Cardiologist Publishes Results of Roller Coaster Study

The American Heart Association meeting in Dallas on November 16, 2005 included a presentation on cardiovascular response to roller coaster rides by Jurgen Kuschyk, M.D., a cardiologist at University Hospital in Mannheim, Germany. The study recorded heart rates of 37 men and 18 women with healthy hearts before, during and after a 75-mph roller coaster ride with a change in gravity of 6 G in four seconds.

* After one minute on the ride, the average maximum heart rate of the participants increased from 91 beats per minute to 153 bpm. Women had higher maximum heart rates than men (average of 165 bpm vs. 148.5 bpm).
* 44% of the study participants had marked sinus arrhythmia that persisted for up to five minutes after the ride. One participant had a self-terminating episode of atrial fibrillation during the ride.
* Before the study, researchers thought the increased G-forces occurring when riders suddenly plummeted towards the ground would increase stress on the body and increase heart rate. "But the increased G-force didn't have too much of an effect on the heart rate," Kuschyk said. "The heart rate appeared to rise more from psychological stress and fear at the beginning as riders were climbing or reaching the top."
* Researchers concluded that riding roller coasters poses no cardiac risk to young healthy people; however, individuals with high blood pressure, a previous heart attack, an implanted pacemaker or defibrillator, or other heart disease were warned against riding roller coasters.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/medicine/1281111.html?page=1&c=y

As you can see after reading the main problem is the violent movements NOT the gforces.

 

[Pinkprincessmom]

I should have been in this study. I first rode MS in 2004. I was terrified of all the warnings, but got on. I loved it.

I rode Dinosaur, which is a bouncy ride, but no real hills, but that encounter with the dinosaur really got my heart rate up. I wouldn't let my dad ride MS b/c he has known heart problems. I did encourage him to ride Dinosaur. When I realized what my heart rate was, I was quite worried about him. It turns out that he does not have that "anticipation" fear that I have. Dinosaur didn't affect his heart rate at all.

I will continue to ride MS. I will continue not to let my dad ride it.

 

[Another Voice]

As you can see after reading the main problem is the violent movements NOT the gforces.

If you read closely, you’ll see where the problem with ‘Mission: Space’ happens.

A roller coaster does exceed the maximum loads that ‘M:S’ has, but it’s only for fractions of a second, during hills and turns. Even a “launched” coaster applies its power for only about four seconds.

‘Mission: Space’ has lower “G-forces” – but sustains them for thirty seconds. That’s significantly longer than any roller coaster. And while there have been plenty of studies on roller coaster physics (because so many people have died), there is no understanding of how a large cross section of the public will react to sustained forces, rather than sharp and quick ones.

The blood vessel in your brain or to your heart may not be able to stay open during a 2G force – but having it closed for four seconds is a whole different issue than having it closed for half a minute.

Worse still is that ‘M:S’ and “Disney” attracts a lot more people than would ride a roller coaster capable of producing similar effects. People trust Disney, far more than they would trust Six Flags or Ernie’s Street Carnival. And seeing a two hundred foot vertical drop on a roller coaster is much more intimidating than hear Gary Sinese repeat Standard Safety Warning Number 2.

‘Mission: Space’ is a different ride, one that no one has much experience with. If nothing else Disney should act with greater caution than a standard roller coaster. Disney’s already been shocked by the amount of motion sickness this ride produces – and the entire ride was engineered to avoid motion sickness. If Disney doesn’t understand that, what else don’t they fully understand?

 

[erikthewise]

If you read closely, you’ll see where the problem with ‘Mission: Space’ happens.

A roller coaster does exceed the maximum loads that ‘M:S’ has, but it’s only for fractions of a second, during hills and turns. Even a “launched” coaster applies its power for only about four seconds.

‘Mission: Space’ has lower “G-forces” – but sustains them for thirty seconds. That’s significantly longer than any roller coaster. And while there have been plenty of studies on roller coaster physics (because so many people have died), there is no understanding of how a large cross section of the public will react to sustained forces, rather than sharp and quick ones.

The blood vessel in your brain or to your heart may not be able to stay open during a 2G force – but having it closed for four seconds is a whole different issue than having it closed for half a minute.

Worse still is that ‘M:S’ and “Disney” attracts a lot more people than would ride a roller coaster capable of producing similar effects. People trust Disney, far more than they would trust Six Flags or Ernie’s Street Carnival. And seeing a two hundred foot vertical drop on a roller coaster is much more intimidating than hear Gary Sinese repeat Standard Safety Warning Number 2.

‘Mission: Space’ is a different ride, one that no one has much experience with. If nothing else Disney should act with greater caution than a standard roller coaster. Disney’s already been shocked by the amount of motion sickness this ride produces – and the entire ride was engineered to avoid motion sickness. If Disney doesn’t understand that, what else don’t they fully understand?

A good discussion of the issues!

Rock'n'Roller Coaster accelerates from 0 to 60mph in 2.8 seconds, but that's actually averages just a smidgeon less than 1G! The higher G forces on that ride come during the fast turns.

While I'm not sure that M:S does sustain a force of 2G for 30 seconds, your point is still valid even it's really 1.5G for a somewhat shorter period.

The real problem as you point out is one of perception. From the outside M:S looks as dangerous as Energy Adventure, where the only danger is neglecting to go to the restroom before entering. No steel monster, no scary name like "Tower of Terror", no audible screams from riders. Signs are nice, but some read them and some don't and few take them seriously. Also people tend to shut down their brains when waiting in line.

 

[Tink's Tormentor]

M:S sustains G's ranging from 1.5 to 2.0 for about 30-45 seconds... Your body can handle 4 G's for 4 seconds better than 1.5 G's over 30 seconds... That there is the problem that causes these illnesses... And for the people that say the ride didn't cause the two deaths, it may not have been the DIRECT cause, but it did have a DIRECT affect on their conditions, making it an accomplice.

 

[Mr D]

making it an accomplice

That is the final word on M:S

 

[peter11435]

M:S sustains G's ranging from 1.5 to 2.0 for about 30-45 seconds....

Mission Space never sustains those G's for that long. The longest sustained G's are only for 10-15 seconds.

 

[Disneyrsh]

Well, put us in with the group who's tried it once and that was enough.

Our opinion was, it really was like being an astronaut, but neither one of us has any desire to really BE an astronaut!!!

We're healthy (knock wood) adults in our thirties, and we love Rock N Roller Coaster, but MS was a bit too much realism and not enough thrillism.

There's the definite sense of having survived MS, whereas on RNR, there's more the sense of having experienced it, and wanting to repeat the experience...

 

[YoHo]

Anyone want to give a link to some proof on the length of sustained G's on Mission space?

 

[SpaceAce]

I think that they should make the ride safer. What they should do is just have fans blow on you like in the old "If You Had Wings" attraction that made it feel like you were flying. You would get the same effect as the centrifuge.

I hope you know I am full of crap.

 

[A_Real_Critic]

a four-hour period. The first time, my inaugural trip, went fine, but after the second voyage, I left the capsule feeling pretty flushed. I had to really focus to keep myself from throwing up afterwards.

 

[Disneyrsh]

You can now choose to be on the 'green' team and they turn off the centrifuge!

Or be on the orange team for the original experience.

How cool! Now my 7 year old may try it, and I'll certainly try it again.

 

[peter11435]

Anyone want to give a link to some proof on the length of sustained G's on Mission space?

Anyone who has actually ridden the attraction would already know that.

 

[Chuck S]

I understand the sustained G-force theory, but there are rides, not coasters, that have been around for years with similar G-Forces. The spinning room or "barrel" rides that use centrifugal force to hold you against the wall while the floor drops away. Those rides last at least 30 seconds. There should be lots of data from those. The difference is you are in a standing vs. seated position, but the G-Forces are similar.

Magic Mountain had one in the 1970s, it is still operating, the name was changed to "Spin Out", it was originally "Bottoms Up". Evidently these rides AKA Rotor Rides, have been around since 1949 and produce 1.5 to 2 g.

 

[bsmcneil]

i rode it a couple of months after it came out and, as someone who wanted to be an astronaut and thought Alien Encounter was JUST scary enough, i was bored. i rode it 3 times since then and still...didn't do it for me. now, i want to go back with the DGF but she doesn't like rides often, so we'll see.

 

[jaskemr]

a four-hour period. The first time, my inaugural trip, went fine, but after the second voyage, I left the capsule feeling pretty flushed. I had to really focus to keep myself from throwing up afterwards.

Hey not quite the same experience, but My first experience went fine.
I read enough to know to keep focused on the screen. 2nd time, I was looking around a bit too much and "felt" the spinning, I quickly focused back on the screen and it the "spinning" went away.

Follow the directions and stay focused on the screen at all times!

I never felt any spinning the first time, but after I got too confident on the second I did for a few seconds.