Avengers attractions planned?

[DCTooTall]

Okay, the article was a year or two old. It doesn't mean it's going to happen. Many have reported a email done by Disney giving a pitch to the Lord of the Rings theme park. Here’s a quote from that email.
Quote:
Imagine if you will a world unlike any you’ve ever visited before: it’s Middle Earth, the ancient and beautiful land forged by J.R.R. Tolkien as the backdrop for his two most well known creations, Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit. Walk as a human among dwarves, elves, orcs and hobbits — all faithfully recreated and portrayed in the spirit of the original characters as they appeared in both the books and the movies. In this land you’ll experience one-of-a-kind rides and attractions that bring to life some of the most memorable experiences of Tolkien’s world including Bilbo’s hobbit hole, the fortress at Isengard (before it was destroyed) and even the dark world of Mordor — including the terrifying volcanic Mount Doom. just a pitch to get public reaction:

Sounds lke a Perfect fit for Disney America. Add a bit of Fantasy to go with the history.

 

[doconeill]

Sounds lke a Perfect fit for Disney America. Add a bit of Fantasy to go with the history.

It would be more of a fit for a fantasy version of "Disney's United Kingdom", as aspects of Tolkien's Middle-Earth stories were meant to form a constructed mythology for the Great Britain and Ireland, at least in early versions.

 

[fannatic]

I know, if they are really considering it, where would they put it? It sounds too large in scope for any of the existing parks. Hollywood Studios is allegedly taking out the back lot tour to make room for more Pixar attractions. They don't have a lot of space there to expand. Animal Kingdom has dedicated 12 acres for Avatar. I don't believe they would have room, either. I guess they could expand into the parking lots. It seems too Dark for the Magic Kingdom. Would it be a separately gated attraction? It seems like it would be in answer to Harry Potter.

 

[DCTooTall]

It would be more of a fit for a fantasy version of "Disney's United Kingdom", as aspects of Tolkien's Middle-Earth stories were meant to form a constructed mythology for the Great Britain and Ireland, at least in early versions.

Hmmm.... Something tells me the joke went over your head. Maybe too obscure a reference?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney's_America

IOW's..... Never gonna happen.

I know, if they are really considering it, where would they put it? It sounds too large in scope for any of the existing parks. Hollywood Studios is allegedly taking out the back lot tour to make room for more Pixar attractions. They don't have a lot of space there to expand. Animal Kingdom has dedicated 12 acres for Avatar. I don't believe they would have room, either. I guess they could expand into the parking lots. It seems too Dark for the Magic Kingdom. Would it be a separately gated attraction? It seems like it would be in answer to Harry Potter.

Wouldn't work. There's already plenty of topics here discussing why a 5th gate just won't happen and wouldn't work, so I'll skip that one here.

MGM just doesn't really have the room to expand. World Drive on one side, Buena Vista Parkway on the other, Parking Lot on the 3rd, and the main entrance on the 4th. There are also a lot of backstage areas which are used that limit it's ability to be further expanded. Plus, The park is next to some conservation areas which further limit it's ability to be expanded. There is some land nearby designated on the land use diagrams for theme park use, but it's on the other side of world drive. That would require a bridge to cross over the traffic to give you access to it from MGM. (Tunnel wouldn't work because of Florida's high water table)

The Magic Kingdom doesn't have the room to expand outward due to service areas and service roads.

Animal Kingdom also doesn't have easy access to further expansion areas beyond the beast kingdom plot currently partcially occupied by Camp Minnie Mickey.

EPCOT also goes without saying.... no expansion room due to EPCOT Center Drive, World Drive, The EPCOT Resort Area, Buena Vista Parkway, and all the service buildings for the park.


And of course.... none of this touches upon the fact that middle earth just wouldn't fit within any of the current parks thematically even if hell did manage to freeze over resulting in Disney gaining the rights.

 

[doconeill]

Hmmm.... Something tells me the joke went over your head. Maybe too obscure a reference?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney's_America

IOW's..... Never gonna happen.

Oh, I knew what you were saying...well aware of that history...

 

[pilferk]

MGM just doesn't really have the room to expand. World Drive on one side, Buena Vista Parkway on the other, Parking Lot on the 3rd, and the main entrance on the 4th. There are also a lot of backstage areas which are used that limit it's ability to be further expanded. Plus, The park is next to some conservation areas which further limit it's ability to be expanded. There is some land nearby designated on the land use diagrams for theme park use, but it's on the other side of world drive. That would require a bridge to cross over the traffic to give you access to it from MGM. (Tunnel wouldn't work because of Florida's high water table)

Blue sky idea:
Enclosed tunnel/attraction, over the road, into the new theme park space, providing 2 way transportation between the two areas.

Yeah, I know...bottleneck and all that. Don't kill my blue sky with logistics.

Seriously, though....unless they took over the back lot tour/sets area (which they could, I guess...if the rumors about more Pixar aren't true) AND maybe the Indy show and Stunt show areas....they're sort of boxed in.

The one thing they COULD do is swap the conservation area for other undeveloped land earmarked for something else. They've done this before (most recently, I think, with Golden Oaks?) so it's not out of the question. But it's probably extremely unlikely.

The Magic Kingdom doesn't have the room to expand outward due to service areas and service roads.

Blue sky idea: Fill in parts of Bay lake and start expanding outward!!

Yeah, it would be a nightmare. I SAID don't kill my blue sky with logistics!!

Seriously, though...any MK expansion is likely going to have to happen within it's current footprint for exactly the reasons you mention. At least for a good long time. They have pieces (the diorama space around the train ride, for example), but nothing big enough for large scale expansion. Maybe, eventually, technology will provide an answer (shrinking some of the facility and infrastructure space required) that gives them SOME more room.

They could also, probably, do SOMETHING with Tom Sawyer Island and the river around it. Not easily, but possible...there are those crummy logistics, again. And ME would be a HORRIBLE fit between (most obviously) Frontierland and Liberty Square.

Ultimately, I agree with your sentiment that it's not likely any time soon.

Animal Kingdom also doesn't have easy access to further expansion areas beyond the beast kingdom plot currently partcially occupied by Camp Minnie Mickey.

Blue sky idea: Knock down the facilities between AK and AKL, fill in the swamp land and evict the crocs, and expand there. Oh, and build a walkway between AK and AKL while you're at it (with a jogging trail and bike rental), with a completely independent gate into the park!

Yeah, I know....stinkin' logistics!

Back to being serious: To be clear, even with FOTLK's theater, Camp Minnie Mickey only takes up a portion of the Beastly Kingdom "pad". Now...I can't remember if Avatarland is set to use another portion of that space or not. If so...there's very little space left. If not...you have a good sized pad (because you rip out Camp Minnie Mickey, entirely) to use.

They could also rip out Rafiki's planet watch/Conservation Station, whatever and use that space...but it's not all that large. I guess if you rip out the train ride back and repurpose ALL that space, you have a bit more.

In all, AK probably has the best potential....but isn't a great thematic fit (especially considering Avatarland is already slated to go there...you're turning AK into another movie park). Once again, I'm with you on "unlikely".

EPCOT also goes without saying.... no expansion room due to EPCOT Center Drive, World Drive, The EPCOT Resort Area, Buena Vista Parkway, and all the service buildings for the park.


And of course.... none of this touches upon the fact that middle earth just wouldn't fit within any of the current parks thematically even if hell did manage to freeze over resulting in Disney gaining the rights.

Blue Sky idea: Build an expansion under water, in the lagoon.

All right! ENOUGH WITH LOGISTICS!!! I don't care about %^@#$ Logistics!!

And a final return to serious: Epcot has, reportedly, a few open pads for use....and you could rip down the old Millenium Celebration pavillion (though it actually gets used for special events like food and wine) and expand back toward the UK. There's some room there, to use...but not much of it is contiguous, which means you're stuck in terms of size.

It's also a HORRIBLE thematic fit for World Showcase...and not any better for Future World (unless you're thinking that Middle Earth is a great depiction of what Earth will become...personally I'd be more on board with a "Zombie Apocalypse themed ride).

So, finally, we're right back to "I agree, unlikely".

I think Disney was looking for SOMETHING to go into AK a couple years back. I think the ME surveys were probably the precursor to what would ultimately be Avatarland. Disney decided to grab a different IP to fill the same role.

 

[doconeill]

DHS has plenty of room to the south. They just need to relocate the main entrance roadway either by bending it around a lot more to form a new perimiter, or relocate to the "back" entrance on Buena Vista Drive, or to Victory Way if needed.

 

[chartle]

I could only see ME being put into the MK or DHS.

MK because there is no theme except that it has separate lands so ME would just be another "land" and DHS because ME is movie based.

Doesn't work because its not really animal based (Avatar is a slight stretch) and it has nothing to do with Epcot's two themes of future world or a world expo.

 

[fannatic]

What about expanding into the parking lots at DHS and DAK. I've rarely been there, except during holidays, when these were over half full. They could always build some sort of parking structure like at Disneyland. The parking lots at Downtown Disney, on the other hand, are a nightmare. They need to address that issue. I guess free parking has a lot to do with it.

 

[Pumbaa7287]

I could only see ME being put into the MK or DHS.

MK because there is no theme except that it has separate lands so ME would just be another "land" and DHS because ME is movie based.

Doesn't work because its not really animal based (Avatar is a slight stretch) and it has nothing to do with Epcot's two themes of future world or a world expo.

I just got legitimately angry at the mere thought of ME being put in to Magic Kingdom. Do you know how big the revolt would be of putting a major franchise as it's own land in the MK?

That being said, I think it would be awesome in either DHS or AK, I'd much prefer it in AK to the avatarland that is planned, but either way, DHS is clearly the best fit, IF there were any truth to it.

 

[doconeill]

Middle-Earth might still be able to go in to AK as a corollary to Beastly Kingdomme...

 

[DCTooTall]

Oh, I knew what you were saying...well aware of that history...

Never can be sure. i'm often reminded about the number of people who just aren't as familiar with Disney history and trivia as i am.

Blue sky idea:
Enclosed tunnel/attraction, over the road, into the new theme park space, providing 2 way transportation between the two areas.

Yeah, I know...bottleneck and all that. Don't kill my blue sky with logistics.

Seriously, though....unless they took over the back lot tour/sets area (which they could, I guess...if the rumors about more Pixar aren't true) AND maybe the Indy show and Stunt show areas....they're sort of boxed in.

The one thing they COULD do is swap the conservation area for other undeveloped land earmarked for something else. They've done this before (most recently, I think, with Golden Oaks?) so it's not out of the question. But it's probably extremely unlikely.

Wasn't Golden Oak's plot mostly a golf course?

Back to being serious: To be clear, even with FOTLK's theater, Camp Minnie Mickey only takes up a portion of the Beastly Kingdom "pad". Now...I can't remember if Avatarland is set to use another portion of that space or not. If so...there's very little space left. If not...you have a good sized pad (because you rip out Camp Minnie Mickey, entirely) to use.

They could also rip out Rafiki's planet watch/Conservation Station, whatever and use that space...but it's not all that large. I guess if you rip out the train ride back and repurpose ALL that space, you have a bit more.

In all, AK probably has the best potential....but isn't a great thematic fit (especially considering Avatarland is already slated to go there...you're turning AK into another movie park). Once again, I'm with you on "unlikely".

I Think, just based off the initial announcement's hints at the area size, that they were planning on utilizing all of the original Beastly kingdom pad, which includes ripping out Camp Minnie/Mickey.

Rafiki's Planet Watch actually isn't that large an area. You have a train ride that basically is next to a backstage access road (main reason you are facing "out", so you can't see the road behind the train), which then drops you off into a slightly wooded area that then walks up to a building on the edge of the backstage areas for the park. There is a plot on the ride back from the conservation station that could be used in theory, but the access to it would create one hell of a bottleneck the wya things are currently.

Blue Sky idea: Build an expansion under water, in the lagoon.

All right! ENOUGH WITH LOGISTICS!!! I don't care about %^@#$ Logistics!!

And a final return to serious: Epcot has, reportedly, a few open pads for use....and you could rip down the old Millenium Celebration pavillion (though it actually gets used for special events like food and wine) and expand back toward the UK. There's some room there, to use...but not much of it is contiguous, which means you're stuck in terms of size.

It's also a HORRIBLE thematic fit for World Showcase...and not any better for Future World (unless you're thinking that Middle Earth is a great depiction of what Earth will become...personally I'd be more on board with a "Zombie Apocalypse themed ride).

So, finally, we're right back to "I agree, unlikely".

EPCOT has a couple pads that can be used for pavilions, but nothing large enough for anything of a "land" scale. There are a few plots in World Showcase for a potential country addition, or They could always reuse the Wonders of Life spot, or there is a plot between The Land and the Living Seas.

I think Disney was looking for SOMETHING to go into AK a couple years back. I think the ME surveys were probably the precursor to what would ultimately be Avatarland. Disney decided to grab a different IP to fill the same role.

Not to mention, one that didn't require dealing with people that didn't want to deal with Disney.

DHS has plenty of room to the south. They just need to relocate the main entrance roadway either by bending it around a lot more to form a new perimiter, or relocate to the "back" entrance on Buena Vista Drive, or to Victory Way if needed.

I don't remember exactly. but I think some of that land to the south was designated Conservation land. In Theory they could move the main entranceway slightly, but there isn't a ton of room before they have to worry about a canal or potential conservation land issues.

What about expanding into the parking lots at DHS and DAK. I've rarely been there, except during holidays, when these were over half full. They could always build some sort of parking structure like at Disneyland. The parking lots at Downtown Disney, on the other hand, are a nightmare. They need to address that issue. I guess free parking has a lot to do with it.

MGM you can't really expand into the parking lots much because of the traffic flow and the park layout. The Only lot that MIGHT allow for park expansion would be the current Cast Parking lot since it's located behind Indy/Startours/Backlot Express. The other section of the parking lot is actually in front of the main park entrance. If you replaced the cast parking, then you would need to factor in where would castmembers park. (And make sure you still have a way for people coming from the main entrancecan get into the parking.). I also don't know if a parking deck would work there due to footprint requirements....

DAK you also run into logistics issues due to the parking lot placement in relation to the park layout, bus stops, and existing bodies of water.

Something to consider, For both Disneyland and the Universal Parks in orlando, When they built their parking structures, it was to create space to build a new park, hotels, and shopping districts from space that was freed up. None of them have used the space from building their decks to expand an existing park into.

(And the DTD/marketplace parking lots aren't that bad. I've been in much worse at local malls.)

 

[pilferk]

What about expanding into the parking lots at DHS and DAK. I've rarely been there, except during holidays, when these were over half full. They could always build some sort of parking structure like at Disneyland. The parking lots at Downtown Disney, on the other hand, are a nightmare. They need to address that issue. I guess free parking has a lot to do with it.

Large parking structures are tough in that area because of the water table and general swampiness of the land. You have to go extra deep on footers/headers/pylons...which isn't very cost effective given the use for the construction.

For retail expansion, a resort, or something that would increase revenue drastically....maybe. To facilitate park expansion...probably not.

 

[DCTooTall]

Large parking structures are tough in that area because of the water table and general swampiness of the land. You have to go extra deep on footers/headers/pylons...which isn't very cost effective given the use for the construction.

For retail expansion, a resort, or something that would increase revenue drastically....maybe. To facilitate park expansion...probably not.

And in Disney Terms, it also creates something outside the park which can usually be seem inside the park. That kind of eliminates one of the primary reasons that the Florida Project was so large.

 

[pilferk]

Wasn't Golden Oak's plot mostly a golf course?

Most of it. But there wasa strip, if memory serves, of golden oaks/Four seasons, along one border, that was slated for conservation. Disney took that strip and "swapped" it for another plot further removed on the property. I'll hunt tomorrow to see if I can find the mention of it.

I Think, just based off the initial announcement's hints at the area size, that they were planning on utilizing all of the original Beastly kingdom pad, which includes ripping out Camp Minnie/Mickey.

Maybe...thats the part I can not remember...where Avatatland was oriented and if it jus pushed "north" or both "north" and "south". It was12 acres, right? The BK pad seems larger...but maybe not.

Rafiki's Planet Watch actually isn't that large an area. You have a train ride that basically is next to a backstage access road (main reason you are facing "out", so you can't see the road behind the train), which then drops you off into a slightly wooded area that then walks up to a building on the edge of the backstage areas for the park. There is a plot on the ride back from the conservation station that could be used in theory, but the access to it would create one hell of a bottleneck the wya things are currently.

There you go with logistics again!

Agree, though. It is space...but not a ton. And it is not like you could rip out the vet facilities back there.

EPCOT has a couple pads that can be used for pavilions, but nothing large enough for anything of a "land" scale. There are a few plots in World Showcase for a potential country addition, or They could always reuse the Wonders of Life spot, or there is a plot between The Land and the Living Seas.

Exactly what I meant about not having enough contiguous space...there is scattered space...but would be hard to fit ME in there.

It would also be a horrific thematic fit.

 

[pilferk]

And in Disney Terms, it also creates something outside the park which can usually be seem inside the park. That kind of eliminates one of the primary reasons that the Florida Project was so large.

When WDW was created...I agree.

Now I suspect dollars and cents is considered a more compelling a reason.

Because they have certainly mucked up park sightlines for other things in the recent past (ie the recent dvc contemporary expansion).

 

[doconeill]

I believe that Disney has some leeway in what is considered conservation land. I seem to recall that 25% of RCID is to be kept as conservation - but it could be any 25%. And I don't think they are anywhere near 75% constructed...

 

[pilferk]

Most of it. But there wasa strip, if memory serves, of golden oaks/Four seasons, along one border, that was slated for conservation. Disney took that strip and "swapped" it for another plot further removed on the property. I'll hunt tomorrow to see if I can find the mention of it.

So far, no luck. And now I'm second guessing if it was the Four Seasons development or the Flamingo Crossing one.

One roadblock I'm running into is the government site with all the documentation is down right now....AND I can't seem to find the original disboards thread from Aug of '08 talking about the Four seasons deal.

 

[pilferk]

I believe that Disney has some leeway in what is considered conservation land. I seem to recall that 25% of RCID is to be kept as conservation - but it could be any 25%. And I don't think they are anywhere near 75% constructed...

They have specific parcels "zoned" for specific purposes. But they can swap those purposes provided they stay within the state zoning parameters set out by the original deal (and updated as time has gone on). They have to go through the formal process...but I've never heard of them being denied.

They did it with some of the road "rerouting" they did a few years back, for example.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I believe that Disney has some leeway in what is considered conservation land. I seem to recall that 25% of RCID is to be kept as conservation - but it could be any 25%. And I don't think they are anywhere near 75% constructed...

i think they are probably no more than 25% constructed...there is actually a ton of land that can still be developed...and disney would not hesitate one bit to relocate anything if it was in their economic interests...

but i have to laugh at any comments that seem to say "there's just no room to expand at park X"

that's laughable...there is room for anything if it would make money...especially at animal kingdom and mgm....

cast parking? we can't lose cast parking?

come on people....that means nothing. that whole parking lot at MGM would be gone in an orlando minute if they would make money off the result.

but their numbers tell them they won't...which is why hardly anything has been done to that park over the years.

my bad...there is is star tours 2