College entrance cheating scandal

[Cubbiecakes]

I went USC, everything is for sale. You want better parties, football seats, bus rides with the president, name on a building, all it takes is a check. I think she beats this, her defense will have a field day with this. Yes and there is a huge staff of fund raisers who will steer you in the right direction. It's a private school, what they do with money and admissions is no ones business and it was clear USC knew what was going on.

I went to another state school in California... we all said that USC stood for University for Spoiled Children. At the time, it was really, really apt.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I was trying to make a point that you chose to comment on than rather look at the point I was trying to make.

Yes. Yes, I often do this - respond to specific statements in a post rather than the entire post.

Technically they are not really even non profit, they are State Funded, or in other words government run.

It sounds like you would be surprised to learn there are (many) private non-profit colleges and universities. USC, BC, Northeastern...

 

[longboard55]

I went to another state school in California... we all said that USC stood for University for Spoiled Children. At the time, it was really, really apt.

I went to another state school in California... we all said that USC stood for University for Spoiled Children. At the time, it was really, really apt.

That seems to be the attitude, lets stick it to rich people. But, hiring a admissions consultant is not a crime and is a common practice, giving money to a school for a benefit is not a crime and a common practice. Hiring someone to raise your sat scores is not a crime and a common practice. Even if they can prove cheating on an sat, when has anyone ever gone to prison for cheating on a school test.

Really think the FBI should have better things to do. The only charge worth anything is tax evasion, but the general rule is the IRS always gives you one chance to fix a dispute.

 

[tex1989]

Yes. Yes, I often do this - respond to specific statements in a post rather than the entire post.

It sounds like you would be surprised to learn there are (many) private non-profit colleges and universities. USC, BC, Northeastern...

Nope, no surprise here, I am quite aware of private schools as well. In my world that would be Baylor, Rice, TCU, Tulane and others. I am very aware of the colleges in the country. You seem to want to continue to talk about private vs public which is fine, but not the point I was making at all. In a nutshell all colleges seem to be in a for profit mode, and their actions and rate of tuition increase support the claim. That's all I am saying. No discussion of private vs public vs state supported vs technical vs real private for profit like Devry Institute. That's a whole other discussion topic.

 

[Cogswel_Cogs]

That seems to be the attitude, lets stick it to rich people. But, hiring a admissions consultant is not a crime and is a common practice, giving money to a school for a benefit is not a crime and a common practice. Hiring someone to raise your sat scores is not a crime and a common practice. Even if they can prove cheating on an sat, when has anyone ever gone to prison for cheating on a school test.

Really think the FBI should have better things to do. The only charge worth anything is tax evasion, but the general rule is the IRS always gives you one chance to fix a dispute.

I think it is more that these school preach equality but to me that seems to stop at their school. Wasn't Harvard and some other school caught destroying evidence over how they treated Asian students, now this.

 

[longboard55]

I think it is more that these school preach equality but to me that seems to stop at their school. Wasn't Harvard and some other school caught destroying evidence over how they treated Asian students, now this.

USC provides more scholarship money and services to local inner city kids than any school in the country and it is not even close.

 

[bcla]

That seems to be the attitude, lets stick it to rich people. But, hiring a admissions consultant is not a crime and is a common practice, giving money to a school for a benefit is not a crime and a common practice. Hiring someone to raise your sat scores is not a crime and a common practice. Even if they can prove cheating on an sat, when has anyone ever gone to prison for cheating on a school test.

Really think the FBI should have better things to do. The only charge worth anything is tax evasion, but the general rule is the IRS always gives you one chance to fix a dispute.

There have been prison sentences handed out in this case. A lot of these cases are considered mail fraud.

 

[bcla]

Nope, no surprise here, I am quite aware of private schools as well. In my world that would be Baylor, Rice, TCU, Tulane and others. I am very aware of the colleges in the country. You seem to want to continue to talk about private vs public which is fine, but not the point I was making at all. In a nutshell all colleges seem to be in a for profit mode, and their actions and rate of tuition increase support the claim. That's all I am saying. No discussion of private vs public vs state supported vs technical vs real private for profit like Devry Institute. That's a whole other discussion topic.

Simply charging money doesn't mean a place is in a "for profit mode" per se. Many hospitals are legally nonprofit entities because they don't return a profit to any shareholders. It also serves to make fundraising possible since donations are tax deductible. They still charge money to operate. The cost per student is more than tuition. That's why they're always angling for grants and trying to build up their endowments.

This has been going on since forever. Even when tuition was far less there was criticism whenever it did go up. I was talking with a coworker who went to the same grad school as I did. Back when we got our masters, it was a per quarter unit charge since it was mostly for part timers. When I started it was around $300 per unit although it did slowly go up in my two plus years. I looked it up now and it's around $1000, which far outpaced inflation. Also - I remember seeing the fee list for undergraduates, which back then was maybe $250 per quarter unit. Assuming a 15 unit course load it would be maybe $12,000 per year when other fees were added. Now the undergrad tuition is more or less fixed and it's nearly $50,000 per year.

There are a few things that have changed. One is that the student population has increased immensely, but the space for students at these "elite" schools hasn't increased. So trying to get into a Harvard or Yale has become more and more difficult as they're not going to get bigger. Another is that the push for more kids to get college degrees has really just produced a glut of college graduates, especially where a lot are majoring in fields where there isn't necessarily a lot of jobs that require such degrees. I remember Michael Lewis (writer of Moneyball and Liar's Poker) stated that he got an art history degree from Princeton because he thought maybe the name itself was more important than the degree when many people in the finance industry were generalists.

 

[kaytieeldr]

You seem to want to continue to talk about private vs public

No. For-profit vs. non-profit.

which is fine

Thank you.

but not the point I was making at all. In a nutshell all colleges seem to be in a for profit mode,

Mode, of course. All colleges and universities must bring in money. Without money, they could not exist - no professors, instructors, buildings, libraries, dorms, food... So

 

[tex1989]

I guess I will just leave it here because my point is so much of what they are doing is far beyond operating and providing a good, usable, needed, employable education for students. Too many specific degrees that leave students $75 K in debt for a degree in a field they will never get a job in, and not well trained for any other better paying jobs and for this they charge so much. College is not for every one, many students would be much better off pursuing technical trades and skills but society as a whole has said you must have that degree. But a degree is no guarentee of a job. And yes costs have gone up, but at a state school in Texas I got a BBA in Finance from 1977 to 1981 for an average of $250 a semester, an MBA in 1988 to 1990 for $350 a semester taking 6 hours or two classes a semester, and an MA in History for $1,000 a semester taking 6 hours from 1998 to 2001. Costs literally make it prohibitive for many to get their degrees because colleges charge so much.

 

[bcla]

That seems to be the attitude, lets stick it to rich people. But, hiring a admissions consultant is not a crime and is a common practice, giving money to a school for a benefit is not a crime and a common practice. Hiring someone to raise your sat scores is not a crime and a common practice. Even if they can prove cheating on an sat, when has anyone ever gone to prison for cheating on a school test.

Really think the FBI should have better things to do. The only charge worth anything is tax evasion, but the general rule is the IRS always gives you one chance to fix a dispute.

There have been prosecutions for cheating on the SAT. Some cases just had fines, but there’s been jail time. The first story is from 1992.

https://www.apnews.com/3cf34509d7b16f59e32120727006fdcfhttps://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/02/education/on-long-island-sat-cheating-was-hardly-a-secret.html
As far as the schools go, I believe the key is that the fraud was on the part of their employees. This included coaches and administrators. Some of the coaches were funneling money to their own club teams or camps. That’s one of the open secrets - that college coaches often own clubs or at least get side income from club coaching. Some were funneling money to their athletic departments to keep their programs afloat. But in the end it was fraud representing them as athletic recruits.

 

[longboard55]

There have been prosecutions for cheating on the SAT. Some cases just had fines, but there’s been jail time. The first story is from 1992.

https://www.apnews.com/3cf34509d7b16f59e32120727006fdcfhttps://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/02/education/on-long-island-sat-cheating-was-hardly-a-secret.html
As far as the schools go, I believe the key is that the fraud was on the part of their employees. This included coaches and administrators. Some of the coaches were funneling money to their own club teams or camps. That’s one of the open secrets - that college coaches often own clubs or at least get side income from club coaching. Some were funneling money to their athletic departments to keep their programs afloat. But in the end it was fraud representing them as athletic recruits.

The money guy and the school employees seem a lot more guilty of a crime and deserve the harsher punishment, but they are not movie stars. I really think the school did know and was using the scheme as a fund raiser.

 

[Magical2017]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...ena-to-get-records/ar-AAGetBK?ocid=spartandhp
So the dad is trying to subpoena the university for "recordings detailing its admissions process and to what degree, if any, it is influenced by donations."

The dad has also demanded all communications between USC employees - emails, texts and instant messages - that concern his daughter.

While I do think the parents who are guilty should have some consequence, I am curious about what those records say. Does anyone think dad's request this will get thrown out?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Bumping this thread because of an earlier conversation----Oh Lifetime you never cease to disappoint.

I present to you: The College Admissions Scandal (part of their Ripped from the Headlines movie theme) premiering October 12

I believe they will be using composite characters for Lori and Felicity and other parents involved but Rick Singer will actually be a character I believe and played by Michael Shanks I believe.

This may be old news to some people and I've known about it for a bit seeing as Lifetime is one of my guilty pleasures lol but I forgot about this thread until just now

 

[Sabeking]

Felicity Huffman got 14 days in prison, 250 community hours and probation, 30,000 dollar fine

 

[Disneylover99]

Felicity Huffman got 14 days in prison, 250 community hours and probation, 30,000 dollar fine

I’m surprised she even got jail time. I hope Lori doesn’t get off. At least Felicity owned up to her role in this.

 

[theSurlyMermaid]

Felicity absolutely did the right thing here. She shut up and grateful accepted her punishment. I’m sure Lori Loughlin is wishing she handled this differently. And if she isn’t, she should be.

 

[Boardwalk Jedi]

Sounds appropriate. Perhaps in those two weeks, she will meet some women who truly were born with ten strikes against them and didn't have the huge money lawyers she had. Humility would be a good outcome.

 

[CdnCarrie]

Out of curiosity - is Felicity's daughter in college at this time? Anyone know?

 

[Quartz01]

I don’t know If the punishment fits the crime here. This woman already lost jobs, her reputation, suffered national humiliation, must do community service and also received a hefty fine. Not to mention what happened to her kids’ future. Jail seems like overkill and she is being made an example of. Jail is absolute hell and should be reserved for serious criminals.