Commercial renting website

[dumbo71]

Some like to argue the point that renters don't affect anyone by getting rooms at prime dates as the rooms would be occupied by someone using points, either their own or using someone elses. The arguement being that owner's points used at the 11 month window have every right over all the rest. Not a very fair way to play the game, especially if that owner is spreading points over many units during the same dates. Other than Grand Gatherings type of vacations, one owner with alot of points should not be blocking other members from their right to book rooms, and that is essentially what happens.

If that is truly the case then your conclusion would be that large point holders are bad.

Large point holders often spread points over the peak times, whether it is for themselves, family or "others".

Is it your assertion that possibly the maximum number of points one can own should be reduced?

I'd be OK with that for sure and it would reduce the liekelyhood of people getting points with the sole intention of renting for profit. There would still be loop holes but those could be plugged fairly easily.

Everyone has a right to use their points to book during the 11-8 month window at their home resort. No matter how many use the "renting is bad, Commercial bad argument" it does NOT change this fact. So if you truly feel renting, commercial or other wise, is bad then we you need to come up with a better solution.

 

[dumbo71]

When we bought our first vacation points at BWV we never even thought about renting our points. I don't think we even knew that you could. We even bought at BCV because that is the only way we thought we could get more points. Did not know about buying from The Timeshare STore or even renting points. We never got the idea when we bought that it was accepted to rent your points. We probably never ask the right questions. Just saying this because it always surprises me when people figure out how to use these situations to benefit themselves. It probably started out by just renting out those extra points and then someone realized how easy this was and so they bought more points to just rent. Then they figured out how they could buy more distressed points at a really good price and realized they became good dates again and became their home resort. Someone will always find the loopholes. Saying all this I certainly don't agree with point morphing or commercial renting. I think DVC could at least make sure when points are transferred they remain at the same use year and resort. Also when DVC members rent their points there could be a new month window for rentees.
Maybe 11 month for resort owners, 7 month for non resort owners, and 5 month for rentees. I don't think it is to much for us to ask for DVC to update their software to make all this possible. At my business we have to actually buy new equipment because it is changing so fast.

Not a bad idea at all.

Problem is how would DVC determine that a ressie made during the 11 month window was for a renter and not an owner? Would we have to go to not allowing name changes on a ressie? That is a change that would surely hurt the entire group of DVC owners.

Also, the first part of your post brings up something I've suspected for a long time. Renters face a lot of jealousy that they have figured out how to maximize their ownership. Commercial renters have just taken it to the next level and I applaud their ingenuity. Sadly others just loath them when in fact they should be learning a thing or two from these people.

Final thoughts: DVC is powerless to enforce anything with regards to renting. They have done almost all they can do: 1) limit transfers 2) remove websites for COPYRIGHT violations 3) send threatening letters warning of enforcement.
Also, if you feel renting is just plain bad, pm our mods here on the Dis because this is a large rental site, like it or not. I also know that if our mods. had any evidence that renting was illegal or against the POS they would REMOVE the rent/trade board immediately. It speaks volumes that they have not.

Make no mistake, when this goes to the court, DVC, DVD will lose big time. If they can rent, so can the owners, period. If they sell owners points, no matter how many, they are entitled to use them how they see fit. DVC opend this can of worms and even recommended renting through DVC guides. They now want to get the cat back in the bag so to speak. Not going to happen. Commercial renters will exist in some form long after this board is gone.

Can't beat them, might as well join them. If you can't get the ressie you want at 7 months, look for Joe Commercial, he might just have what you need and fairly cheap.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Large point holders often spread points over the peak times, whether it is for themselves, family or "others".

Perhaps, but someone who has a large amount of points for personal use isn't likely to be using them all at once. Sure, during a peak vacation period they might have a couple of rooms reserved for themself, family and "others". Conceivably a commercial renter could use a large number of points to book seperate reservations for 10 different customers during a peak vacation week, and that is likely a lot more rooms than would have been booked if the points were for personal use or the member engaged in casual renting. Again, commercial renting has the potential to impact availability for members during peak times.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Final thoughts: DVC is powerless to enforce anything with regards to renting.

Alas, you are correct. Disney did put language in the POS to prohibit purchase of Ownership Interest or use of facilities for "commercial purposes", but they did not sufficiently define "commercial purposes". This combined with the language that permits owners to make resrevtaions for lessees really ties DVD'd hands. Yes, they could likely look at an owners rental patterns and possibly establisht that points are never used for personal use.......but it would take a court judgement to establish that the pattern represented use of vacation ownership for "commercial purposes", and I don't ever see DVD taking this to court.

So yes, they will scrutinize and threaten, and this will scare off many people who perhaps border on "commercial use", but there will always be commercial renters out there. Anyone who has truely made a business out of renting DVC points isn't going to be scared off by a dog that is all bark and no bite.

 

[browniemtb]

Sorry I haven't read all the posts, but has anyone else looked at the site..

http://www.dvcrequest.com

This site is owned by a corporation.......check WHOIS..am I wrong

Brownie

 

[mikesmom]

Sorry I haven't read all the posts, but has anyone else looked at the site..

http://www.dvcrequest.com

This site is owned by a corporation.......check WHOIS..am I wrong

Brownie

Not necessarily. That just may be the company who has created/is hosting the site for the end user.

 

[WebmasterDoc]

...<snip>...
Final thoughts: DVC is powerless to enforce anything with regards to renting. They have done almost all they can do: 1) limit transfers 2) remove websites for COPYRIGHT violations 3) send threatening letters warning of enforcement.
Also, if you feel renting is just plain bad, pm our mods here on the Dis because this is a large rental site, like it or not. I also know that if our mods. had any evidence that renting was illegal or against the POS they would REMOVE the rent/trade board immediately. It speaks volumes that they have not.

Make no mistake, when this goes to the court, DVC, DVD will lose big time. If they can rent, so can the owners, period. If they sell owners points, no matter how many, they are entitled to use them how they see fit. DVC opend this can of worms and even recommended renting through DVC guides. They now want to get the cat back in the bag so to speak. Not going to happen. Commercial renters will exist in some form long after this board is gone.

...

"Powerless" - I think you are grossly underestimating the power and ability of Disney and the legal contracts for DVC. As for sending out "threatening letters" - it seems that, at least in your case, the letter worked and you sold much of your DVC holdings. Whether you feel you were a commercial renter or not, the letter had an effect on at least one person who was an admitted renter.

"When this goes to court" - IF DVC decides to defend an action in court, I have full confidence that they will have all of their ducks in a row and will be well prepared to support any action taken. The IF question is more an issue whether an individual member will take Disney to court. Disney won't need to go to court to enforce their position - they will just make it impossible for the member to use their points until the matter is resolved. A court action will need to be initiated by the individual who feels harmed by any action taken by Disney that is contrary to the POS. Until that time, DVC does have the right and responsibility to define "Commercial purpose" however they choose. Many here have chosen to use the term "Commercial Renting" and that is not really addressed in the POS. "Commercial purpose" is defined in the POS - and includes reference to "pattern of rental activity" in that definition, among other things. While the definition is certainly not specific, there is a definition allowing the Board "at it's reasonable discretion" to determine "commercial purpose". I suspect that definition could be supported by account data.

 

[WebmasterDoc]

Sorry I haven't read all the posts, but has anyone else looked at the site..

http://www.dvcrequest.com

This site is owned by a corporation.......check WHOIS..am I wrong

Brownie

The corporation which owns that site is owned by the individual renting the reservations.

That individual used to offer rentals on our Rent/Trade Board.

 

[drakethib]

Not a bad idea at all.

Problem is how would DVC determine that a ressie made during the 11 month window was for a renter and not an owner? Would we have to go to not allowing name changes on a ressie? That is a change that would surely hurt the entire group of DVC owners.

Also, the first part of your post brings up something I've suspected for a long time. Renters face a lot of jealousy that they have figured out how to maximize their ownership. Commercial renters have just taken it to the next level and I applaud their ingenuity. Sadly others just loath them when in fact they should be learning a thing or two from these people.

Final thoughts: DVC is powerless to enforce anything with regards to renting. They have done almost all they can do: 1) limit transfers 2) remove websites for COPYRIGHT violations 3) send threatening letters warning of enforcement.
Also, if you feel renting is just plain bad, pm our mods here on the Dis because this is a large rental site, like it or not. I also know that if our mods. had any evidence that renting was illegal or against the POS they would REMOVE the rent/trade board immediately. It speaks volumes that they have not.

Make no mistake, when this goes to the court, DVC, DVD will lose big time. If they can rent, so can the owners, period. If they sell owners points, no matter how many, they are entitled to use them how they see fit. DVC opend this can of worms and even recommended renting through DVC guides. They now want to get the cat back in the bag so to speak. Not going to happen. Commercial renters will exist in some form long after this board is gone.

Can't beat them, might as well join them. If you can't get the ressie you want at 7 months, look for Joe Commercial, he might just have what you need and fairly cheap.

While I disagree with about 99.99% of what you said in this post, but I have to question if Disney really is "fighting" commercial renting, why haven't they set up a "hot line" or email address to report websites that are blantlantly set for renting.

Maybe there is not much they can do?????? I hope not..

 

[OneMoreTry]

..... If they sell owners points, no matter how many, they are entitled to use them how they see fit. DVC opend this can of worms and even recommended renting through DVC guides. They now want to get the cat back in the bag so to speak. Not going to happen. Commercial renters will exist in some form long after this board is gone.

Can't beat them, might as well join them. If you can't get the ressie you want at 7 months, look for Joe Commercial, he might just have what you need and fairly cheap....

1. I think most contracts stipulate that any verbal promises made are non-binding, and that only what is written is binding and enforceable. I haven't reread my DVC contract to confirm that in this case, but unless someone videotaped a guide making the promise to him/her, I don't think that would hold up.

2. I have no first-hand experience, but aren't neighborhood and subdivision convenants enforceable? It seems this (renting) issue would be analogous and equally enforceable.

3. Your final comment sounds a little snippy.

4. I'm investing in more overseas mutual funds this year. My China fund has done well.

 

[rinkwide]

...someone who sits around in a bathrobe, holding a glass of champagne...

That's me, and it could be you too if you purchase my brand new eBook: Renting High-Demand DVC Weeks For Fun & Profit

Order now and you'll:

• Learn how to snag hard-to-get times like Christmas, Easter, 4th of July and Thanksgiving
  
• Learn how to buy distressed points cheap and magically turn them into fixed weeks
  
• Learn how to create a professional looking website to do your selling for you
  
• Learn how to get 15, 18, up to 20 dollars or more per point for your rental
  
• Learn how to handle inquiries by DVC legal and nosey fellow members
  
• Learn how to rake in the profits while keeping the IRS off your back

As a bonus, we'll also teach you DVC secrets like:

• How to get five or more people in a one-bedroom villa
  
• How to get perks like valet parking, pool-hopping and dining discounts for your renters
  
• How to market the Disney Dining Plan on message boards for weight watchers and over-eaters anonymous

All orders will receive a free bathrobe, bottle of Ballatore and a polycarbonate champagne glass embossed with our motto: Let The Good Times Roll

Act now; Be one of the first 20 callers and we'll send you a refillable mug good for a lifetime of free soda anywhere in Walt Disney World!

Call Now! (888) 555-RENT

---------------------------------------

 

[Longhairbear]

I initially bought enough points for the vacations I thought I would take. As it turned out, I needed/wanted more points for the sole purpose of staying longer,or more often. Later when my personal finances permitted, I added on more points for the sole reason of getting a one bedroom each time I went to WDW at a DVC, mainly to get a full kitchen each time. The thought of having more points would only be for staying more often, never to rent for any reason. The thought of renting to recoup fees, or for profit never entered my head until I started reading these, and other forums.
All of the Disney promotional material has a disclaimer that DVC is not to be viewed as an investment, and I never considered the cost of membership as such. It is money I would have spent staying at a Disney resort over the course of many years anyway.
I don't vacation at WDW during the Dec. holidays, at a popular DVC resort, which just happens to be my home resort. I could use my 11 month window to book there. Should I not get the dates or accomodations I want, I would not have previously been distressed. I would have, thought that I waited too long to book,even at 11 months. But since reading these forums, I have a different take on things. Should I see several listings on whatever site,listing my home resort for the dates I want, I would be furious.
My name is on every reservation I make at DVC, and non DVC resorts. I check in, in person, with an ID. No actions taken by Disney to enforce transfers,point morphing, commercial renting restrictions is going to affect me in any way. In fact, I will just look on in amusement if I happen to overhear someone's rental reservation was cancelled. I will adjust my sunglasses, order a cocktail, lean back, and smile, oh so smugly.

 

[greenban]

I initially bought enough points for the vacations I thought I would take. As it turned out, I needed/wanted more points for the sole purpose of staying longer,or more often. Later when my personal finances permitted, I added on more points for the sole reason of getting a one bedroom each time I went to WDW at a DVC, mainly to get a full kitchen each time. The thought of having more points would only be for staying more often, never to rent for any reason. The thought of renting to recoup fees, or for profit never entered my head until I started reading these, and other forums.
All of the Disney promotional material has a disclaimer that DVC is not to be viewed as an investment, and I never considered the cost of membership as such. It is money I would have spent staying at a Disney resort over the course of many years anyway.
I don't vacation at WDW during the Dec. holidays, at a popular DVC resort, which just happens to be my home resort. I could use my 11 month window to book there. Should I not get the dates or accomodations I want, I would not have previously been distressed. I would have, thought that I waited too long to book,even at 11 months. But since reading these forums, I have a different take on things. Should I see several listings on whatever site,listing my home resort for the dates I want, I would be furious.
My name is on every reservation I make at DVC, and non DVC resorts. I check in, in person, with an ID. No actions taken by Disney to enforce transfers,point morphing, commercial renting restrictions is going to affect me in any way. In fact, I will just look on in amusement if I happen to overhear someone's rental reservation was cancelled. I will adjust my sunglasses, order a cocktail, lean back, and smile, oh so smugly.

And that is great for you. I'm glad you are not affected yet. But, in the future, if a change does affect you, I too will.... In fact, I will just look on in amusement if I happen to overhear someone's rental reservation was cancelled. I will adjust my sunglasses, order a cocktail, lean back, and smile, oh so smugly.

The point many are making, and many are debating, is if these changes affect what is written in the POS as provided by Disney (DVD). My POSes all specifically allow renting under certain conditions, and all prohibit a pattern of commercial renting, which is not clearly defined.

I have been affected, I am not buying the last 2,000 points I need to retire at WDW. I would have been happy to own them all now, at a better rate, but I will wait 15 or so years, until I'm ready to retire. Major effect, not really, like someone else said, I'll just put the money into my Asian mutual fund.

But sadly the world is full of people who are ego-centric. Until it affects me, I don't/won't care. Sadly, when it does affect you, it is too late. Ask Neville Chamberlain.

Enjoy your smile.

-Tony

 

[dumbo71]

And that is great for you. I'm glad you are not affected yet. But, in the future, if a change does affect you, I too will.... In fact, I will just look on in amusement if I happen to overhear someone's rental reservation was cancelled. I will adjust my sunglasses, order a cocktail, lean back, and smile, oh so smugly.

The point many are making, and many are debating, is if these changes affect what is written in the POS as provided by Disney (DVD). My POSes all specifically allow renting under certain conditions, and all prohibit a pattern of commercial renting, which is not clearly defined.

I have been affected, I am not buying the last 2,000 points I need to retire at WDW. I would have been happy to own them all now, at a better rate, but I will wait 15 or so years, until I'm ready to retire. Major effect, not really, like someone else said, I'll just put the money into my Asian mutual fund.

But sadly the world is full of people who are ego-centric. Until it affects me, I don't/won't care. Sadly, when it does affect you, it is too late. Ask Neville Chamberlain.

Enjoy your smile.

-Tony

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

Never say never?

I'll bet there are plenty of people that bought with the intention of using their points exclusively. However, things happen...illness, loss of income, disinterest, etc. Enjoy adjusting those rose-colored sunglasses while you can!

 

[Deb & Bill]

I initially bought enough points for the vacations I thought I would take. As it turned out, I needed/wanted more points for the sole purpose of staying longer,or more often. Later when my personal finances permitted, I added on more points for the sole reason of getting a one bedroom each time I went to WDW at a DVC, mainly to get a full kitchen each time. The thought of having more points would only be for staying more often, never to rent for any reason. The thought of renting to recoup fees, or for profit never entered my head until I started reading these, and other forums.
All of the Disney promotional material has a disclaimer that DVC is not to be viewed as an investment, and I never considered the cost of membership as such. It is money I would have spent staying at a Disney resort over the course of many years anyway.
I don't vacation at WDW during the Dec. holidays, at a popular DVC resort, which just happens to be my home resort. I could use my 11 month window to book there. Should I not get the dates or accomodations I want, I would not have previously been distressed. I would have, thought that I waited too long to book,even at 11 months. But since reading these forums, I have a different take on things. Should I see several listings on whatever site,listing my home resort for the dates I want, I would be furious.
My name is on every reservation I make at DVC, and non DVC resorts. I check in, in person, with an ID. No actions taken by Disney to enforce transfers,point morphing, commercial renting restrictions is going to affect me in any way. In fact, I will just look on in amusement if I happen to overhear someone's rental reservation was cancelled. I will adjust my sunglasses, order a cocktail, lean back, and smile, oh so smugly.

Good post!!

 

[OneMoreTry]

That's me, and it could be you too if you purchase my brand new eBook: Renting High-Demand DVC Weeks For Fun & Profit

Order now and you'll:

• Learn how to snag hard-to-get times like Christmas, Easter, 4th of July and Thanksgiving
  
• Learn how to buy distressed points cheap and magically turn them into fixed weeks
  
• Learn how to create a professional looking website to do your selling for you
  
• Learn how to get 15, 18, up to 20 dollars or more per point for your rental
  
• Learn how to handle inquiries by DVC legal and nosey fellow members
  
• Learn how to rake in the profits while keeping the IRS off your back

As a bonus, we'll also teach you DVC secrets like:

• How to get five or more people in a one-bedroom villa
  
• How to get perks like valet parking, pool-hopping and dining discounts for your renters
  
• How to market the Disney Dining Plan on message boards for weight watchers and over-eaters anonymous

All orders will receive a free bathrobe, bottle of Ballatore and a polycarbonate champagne glass embossed with our motto: Let The Good Times Roll

Act now; Be one of the first 20 callers and we'll send you a refillable mug good for a lifetime of free soda anywhere in Walt Disney World!

Call Now! (888) 555-RENT

---------------------------------------

And for an extra fee, legal support and liability insurance.

 

[Sammie]

That's me, and it could be you too if you purchase my brand new eBook: Renting High-Demand DVC Weeks For Fun & Profit

Order now and you'll:

• Learn how to snag hard-to-get times like Christmas, Easter, 4th of July and Thanksgiving
  
• Learn how to buy distressed points cheap and magically turn them into fixed weeks
  
• Learn how to create a professional looking website to do your selling for you
  
• Learn how to get 15, 18, up to 20 dollars or more per point for your rental
  
• Learn how to handle inquiries by DVC legal and nosey fellow members
  
• Learn how to rake in the profits while keeping the IRS off your back

As a bonus, we'll also teach you DVC secrets like:

• How to get five or more people in a one-bedroom villa
  
• How to get perks like valet parking, pool-hopping and dining discounts for your renters
  
• How to market the Disney Dining Plan on message boards for weight watchers and over-eaters anonymous

All orders will receive a free bathrobe, bottle of Ballatore and a polycarbonate champagne glass embossed with our motto: Let The Good Times Roll

Act now; Be one of the first 20 callers and we'll send you a refillable mug good for a lifetime of free soda anywhere in Walt Disney World!

Call Now! (888) 555-RENT

---------------------------------------

Your number has been disconnected, guess DVC got you.

 

[Sammie]

While I disagree with about 99.99% of what you said in this post, but I have to question if Disney really is "fighting" commercial renting, why haven't they set up a "hot line" or email address to report websites that are blantlantly set for renting.

Maybe there is not much they can do?????? I hope not..

You can email info to them at Member Services, they will pass it on to legal. As far as a hot line, I think their resources to find these people are such they don't need a hot line. They monitor all Ebay transactions and they monitor all Net forums such as these. That is probably enough.

 

[DisDaydreamer]

While I disagree with about 99.99% of what you said in this post, but I have to question if Disney really is "fighting" commercial renting, why haven't they set up a "hot line" or email address to report websites that are blantlantly set for renting.

Maybe there is not much they can do?????? I hope not..

Been lurking... trying to stay out of the battle.

I think maybe Disney has as much info as they can process in their own databases. A few well written programs easily flush out targeted patterns. Shotgun approach is more effective and cheaper than a sniper.