Cruise and Theme Park Operational Updates due to Coronavirus

[SaintsManiac]

Are we dividing people into classes based on knowledge and abilities?

This whole argument aside, I've always been amazed at the sheer number of people who spend thousands upon thousands of dollars on a Disney vacation, and do absolutely zero research. Even a cursory Google search would have given them ample warning about ADR's and FP's.

Now, I've gotten flak for this in the past because it's not exactly an egalitarian tenet, but I've always advocated for more classes and sub-classes, not less. On property? You get earlier access than off-property. Deluxe resort? You get access a day before moderate and two before value.

At some point, between the introduction of FP+, the steep increase in rates, and the addition of perks for good neighbor properties, this became a disaster. Add in the loss of luggage transfer and the diminishing quality of Transportation, and there's less and less reason to pay on-property prices each year.

I was looking on VRBO last night just for curiosity's sake. Thanksgiving week next year I can get a 4 bedroom house 5 miles from WDW gates for less than $200 a night.

They need to bring back the EMH and some type of VQ or FP on property perk for me to not strongly consider staying offsite. And I am not a huge fan of FP+, but if I can't pre-book the big rides by staying onsite then what is the point?

 

[DGsAtBLT]

I guess I don't see that as classist - jsut beneficial to certain personality types. But everyone that wants to can plan out things and get online right at 6am of the first day they are eligible, etc. Yes there is a benefit if you stay on property but that benefit is the same if you stay at a Value or a Deluxe. And for everyone, if you buy a park ticket you get access to the system. I mean, there are a million things in life that if you do research for you are better prepared for them.

I see that very different than like what Universal does where you have to have a park ticket and then bay an extra fee (sometimes a fee more than the actual park ticket) just to have access to the system (or that benefit is included if you stay at a Deluxe resort)

I agree. To an extent with Disney it favoured willingness to give them more of your vacation dollars (the booking window, club level getting extra with additional purchase), but ultimately what it favoured was willingness to plan and learn. If you learned the same day rolling FP and the refresh method I would argue you were in better shape than someone who booked their 3 60 days ahead even if they were able to snag FoP and you couldn’t.

I think whatever new system we get is going to be much more blatantly pay to play than the FP+ we knew. FP+ for all its warts was IMO a mostly equal system in terms of barriers to use it. When someone talks about being able to buy a better experience at Disney, I would sooner list parties, after hour events, VIP tours, before the earlier booking window an on-site stay offered.

 

[jade1]

Are we dividing people into classes based on knowledge and abilities?

Oh and don't forget the class that gets up early for RD, and the class that doesn't like to tour early.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

Oh and don't forget the class that gets up early for RD, and the class that doesn't like to tour early.

Lol but for real a lot of people do feel like this is something they have no control over, shouldn’t be required, and is unfair. See FP - to + debates, and RotR group drops at opening gripes.

 

[Eric Smith]

Are we dividing people into classes based on knowledge and abilities?

This whole argument aside, I've always been amazed at the sheer number of people who spend thousands upon thousands of dollars on a Disney vacation, and do absolutely zero research. Even a cursory Google search would have given them ample warning about ADR's and FP's.

Now, I've gotten flak for this in the past because it's not exactly an egalitarian tenet, but I've always advocated for more classes and sub-classes, not less. On property? You get earlier access than off-property. Deluxe resort? You get access a day before moderate and two before value.

At some point, between the introduction of FP+, the steep increase in rates, and the addition of perks for good neighbor properties, this became a disaster. Add in the loss of luggage transfer and the diminishing quality of Transportation, and there's less and less reason to pay on-property prices each year.

The problem comes in because the system benefits those who have the time and knowledge to make these early plans and hurts the experience for everyone else. What would a FoP queue look like if there wasn't FP+?

I realize this isn't a popular sentiment on the DisBoards since pretty much everyone here is a planner who would get up early on their fastpass day to get all of the top tier fastpass, but that whole system is a bit silly. The Disneyland system is better than FP+ as was the original fastpass system at WDW. I expect whatever replaces FP+ will require a monetary investment to get an advantage with fast passes.

 

[Krandor]

I agree, it's different than what Universal does with the Express Pass. However, Disney's fastpass system with the booking two months out does create a class of people who know how to work the system who have a huge advantage over those who do not. Disneyland isn't nearly as bad because everything is day of and you can get a fastpass to whatever ride you want if you head to the kiosks at the beginning of the day.

There are always ways to make the system work better if you know how or are willing to put in the effort. Pre-covid rotr BG was willingness to get up early. When I was there MW I got BGs 3 days in a row by knowing how the system worked and being willing to get up early 3 days in a row to get them. Some people may think it is unfair I got to ride in 3 times while others diddn't get 1 but I was willing to do what was needed.


Last time I was in DLR was when they still had the paper FPs I used nothing but FPs but I had to work to do it. I took advantage of the fact you can have a FP open in each park (isn't the case anymore). So I would go to DLR, pull a fastpass, then go to DCA and pull a fastpaass. Back to DLR and use the first FP then back to DCA so on and so forth. If I did pull a later FP (like an 8pm space mountain at 1pm) I'd remember the time and the 2 hour rule and be back at that park in 2 hours to pull another one. Some days at the end of the day I had 4-5 FPs in my wallet to go use late. I had basically little waiting - never touched a standby line. My waiting time was walking back and forth from park to park and I'll take that over standding in a line any day.

Point is there are always ways to make systems work to your advantage. even with the FP+ the people who will sit and keep refreshing over and over in the afternoon can get extra FP to some of the tier 1 rides.

 

[BoatDriver]

The problem comes in because the system benefits those who have the time and knowledge to make these early plans and hurts the experience for everyone else. What would a FoP queue look like if there wasn't FP+?

I realize this isn't a popular sentiment on the DisBoards since pretty much everyone here is a planner who would get up early on their fastpass day to get all of the top tier fastpass, but that whole system is a bit silly. The Disneyland system is better than FP+ as was the original fastpass system at WDW. I expect whatever replaces FP+ will require a monetary investment to get an advantage with fast passes.

I would argue that those of us who capitalize on these rules are the ones who make the time to do so. As a small business owner and father, I can assure you I'm not laying around all day, making Disney plans, being fed grapes on a chaise lounge.

I also don't have a problem with a new type of system, but I have always argued that Disney should structure any such plans with guest loyalty and expenditures in mind. Disney charges an absolute premium to guests staying at their resort properties. As such, I would expect to see some sort of tiered system, similar to UOE that rewards/compensates/encourages those higher expenditures.

There needs to continue to be some benefit to on-property stays besides just a bigger charge to your credit card.

 

[Jrb1979]

The only issue I have with FP is how its schedule based. When I am on vacation or visiting a park I have no interest on being in a schedule. I wish there was a way for FP to more like the way Universal's and most other parks are.

 

[SMRT-1]

The problem comes in because the system benefits those who have the time and knowledge to make these early plans and hurts the experience for everyone else. What would a FoP queue look like if there wasn't FP+?

For in-demand headliners like FoP, there would likely be very little difference in average wait time between queues with FP+ and without FP+. People keep calculating wait time differences as if the guests in the FP+ line magically disappear if you remove FP+ - they don't; they move into the standby line. Sure, there may be some who would choose not to ride if they had to wait in the standby line, but for must-do headliners, I'd wager most of them would be willing to spend the time in the standby line making the difference in waits negligible. Even the Twitter thread from the former Imagineer makes this mistake by comparing the wait time for the same number of people in standby line with / without FP+, which isn't a fair comparison because it doesn't account for the extra people that would be in the standby line without FP+.

Does that mean there's zero effect on wait times with FP+? Of course not. It's just not where people seem to think it is. Guests with FP+ reservations aren't just standing around waiting for their FP+ time; they get in the standby queue for non-FP+ rides. So where FP+ has really had the most effect is on the standby times of *other* rides.

 

[Mit88]

The only issue I have with FP is how its schedule based. When I am on vacation or visiting a park I have no interest on being in a schedule. I wish there was a way for FP to more like the way Universal's and most other parks are.

I agree from a guest standpoint that it’s much easier for us as park goers with a system like Universal. But Disney does it this way for a reason. In between your FP window when there’s not enough time to wait on a 90 minute line before your next FP, people are more inclined to hit up stores and food locations.

 

[SaintsManiac]

The only issue I have with FP is how its schedule based. When I am on vacation or visiting a park I have no interest on being in a schedule. I wish there was a way for FP to more like the way Universal's and most other parks are.

Agree with you. I love the system at Universal. I love staying at HRH and walking over and just riding whatever.

 

[SMRT-1]

The only issue I have with FP is how its schedule based. When I am on vacation or visiting a park I have no interest on being in a schedule. I wish there was a way for FP to more like the way Universal's and most other parks are.

Even as a planner, the fixed time aspect of FP+ gives me headaches.

Other parks are able to do at-will priority queues because far fewer people are using the system. Part of that is because they are paid systems. Having to pay for priority queue access reduces the number of people who are willing to use it. The other part is lower overall attendance numbers. Pre-Covid, the USO parks had half the average attendance of MK, so even if Disney moves to paid FP+, it might not be as convenient as Universal or other parks. Even a lower-attended park like DHS might not benefit as much, since the low number of attractions makes the guest/attraction ratio still higher than Universal.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Even as a planner, the fixed time aspect of FP+ gives me headaches.

Other parks are able to do at-will priority queues because far fewer people are using the system. Part of that is because they are paid systems. Having to pay for priority queue access reduces the number of people who are willing to use it. The other part is lower overall attendance numbers. Pre-Covid, the USO parks had half the average attendance of MK, so even if Disney moves to paid FP+, it might not be as convenient as Universal or other parks. Even a lower-attended park like DHS might not benefit as much, since the low number of attractions makes the guest/attraction ratio still higher than Universal.

I've always wondered about how it would work if Disney went to something like Universal as for it to really provide a benefit you have to severely limit the number of passes given out. Which means either they have a limited amount and they are all bought super early (maybe benefit if staying on property you get early access to buy) or they have to make it soooooo expensive so that most people dont' buy it. I mean, if they had a true express pass system for MK and it was $100/person, wouldn't a ton of people buy it and then it has no value?

 

[Mit88]

I've always wondered about how it would work if Disney went to something like Universal as for it to really provide a benefit you have to severely limit the number of passes given out. Which means either they have a limited amount and they are all bought super early (maybe benefit if staying on property you get early access to buy) or they have to make it soooooo expensive so that most people dont' buy it. I mean, if they had a true express pass system for MK and it was $100/person, wouldn't a ton of people buy it and then it has no value?

I wouldn’t buy it. But that’s not because I don’t think it’s a good deal, but because at this point riding rides is secondary to just the experience of being in the parks for me. Anything that I ride in the parks now is always worth standing in the standby line for me. 9 times out of 10 I don’t set up my FastPasses until the day of

 

[Krandor]

The only issue I have with FP is how its schedule based. When I am on vacation or visiting a park I have no interest on being in a schedule. I wish there was a way for FP to more like the way Universal's and most other parks are.

the problem is the can’t do that and provide it included in every ticket purchase because then you just have standby lined again.

people talk about how expensive universal express pass is but that is the only way that type of system works. It has to be priced where many people don’t think the price is worth it so you limit the number sold.

 

[mum22girlz]

We just returned home on Saturday. I didn't miss Fastpass much at all. I really enjoyed not having to be watching the clock for our Fastpass return time. We rode what we wanted, when we wanted. There was also much less time on my phone searching for the next Fastpass after my original 3 were used. Every day was unscripted, with the exception of 3 dining plans. It was a great trip!

 

[Sandiz08]

Paid fastpass should not be introduced until all the old entertainment is back. That is just highway robbery.

 

[LSUmiss]

I guess I don't see that as classist - jsut beneficial to certain personality types. But everyone that wants to can plan out things and get online right at 6am of the first day they are eligible, etc. Yes there is a benefit if you stay on property but that benefit is the same if you stay at a Value or a Deluxe. And for everyone, if you buy a park ticket you get access to the system. I mean, there are a million things in life that if you do research for you are better prepared for them.

I see that very different than like what Universal does where you have to have a park ticket and then bay an extra fee (sometimes a fee more than the actual park ticket) just to have access to the system (or that benefit is included if you stay at a Deluxe resort)

The idea of any of it being classist is ridiculous. If you can afford to vacation at wdw, you can afford extras. Some may not see the value in it & some may have to give up other costs of the vacation to afford it, but that’s like that with pretty much everything. This isn’t healthcare.

 

[xuxa777]

Are we forgetting they already have super deluxe FP+ that you anyone can buy now and use today and they often sell out of them so they must be priced right.

 

[MickeyWaffles]

The only issue I have with FP is how its schedule based. When I am on vacation or visiting a park I have no interest on being in a schedule. I wish there was a way for FP to more like the way Universal's and most other parks are.

Yep. Nothing like pre-booking a FP for SDMT - it’ll be your 3 year old’s first time on it! Then 10 minutes before your return time, your kid passes out in the stroller for a snooze. We love being guaranteed 3 favorite rides a day with little wait, but with little kids we sure love having more flexibility, too.

That’s why we only book a couple key ADRs per trip - so we feed the kids when they’re hungry, not make sure they’re hungry when we’re scheduled to eat.