DAS Outrage vs Genie Plus Outrage?

[gelatoni fan]

Some folk believe Disney's action should be the left side while Disney is trying to accomplish the right side. Some think Disney is giving the the kid in the purple 2.5 boxes even. Perhaps. I agree the two preselects and allowance of immediate rebooking are part of that 2.5 box perception and excessive IMHO.

Is it right or wrong? That's debatable for sure and the good for the goose is good for the gander is an opinion to be had.

I agree that return to FP with FP-Max would be ideal - Disney clearly wants G+ cash cow.

No offense taken at all, we just believe the issue through a different lens. Likewise, I do not mean to offend, but wanted to understand why you feel that we would treat you any differently.

My point of joining a DAS group is simply to help understand that even at 2.5 boxes being provided. The true quality and duration of the Disney day is not just a view of the game or a simple queue time.

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In this case, I wouldn't immediately frame everything as only having the binary outcomes in the image. If the goal is for everyone to see over the fence, you can lower the fence or increase the height of the ground for everyone to be higher up.

To use the picture here as an analogy for DAS and Genie+, imagine if the fence were the desired outcome of lower wait times. Disney says the person on the right gets two boxes for free and the person in the middle has to pay or they are not allowed a box. It would be wrong for the person in the middle to lie about their height to get the box for free but it also can seem a bit unfair that they have to pay extra to have a similar experience.

I can understand how the person on the right would appreciate getting help in the form of free boxes to see over the fence. But I also think it's not great that Disney created a situation where the person in the middle is tempted to lie. I see this as Disney being greedy rather than an attempt to achieve equity.

I was not offended and am glad that you did not take offense either.

 

[nalababybear]

In this case, I wouldn't immediately frame everything as only having the binary outcomes in the image. If the goal is for everyone to see over the fence, you can lower the fence or increase the height of the ground for everyone to be higher up.

To use the picture here as an analogy for DAS and Genie+, imagine if the fence were the desired outcome of lower wait times. Disney says the person on the right gets two boxes for free and the person in the middle has to pay or they are not allowed a box. It would be wrong for the person in the middle to lie about their height to get the box for free but it also can seem a bit unfair that they have to pay extra to have a similar experience.

I can understand how the person on the right would appreciate getting help in the form of free boxes to see over the fence. But I also think it's not great that Disney created a situation where the person in the middle is tempted to lie. I see this as Disney being greedy rather than an attempt to achieve equity.

I was not offended and am glad that you did not take offense either.

No doubt that Disney ceating a mess with G+..not unlike charging bags by airlines and the games they play and resulting games people play to get around said fees..or assigned seating vs family seating together fee or free....all good questions and issue while pursuing the mighty dollar.

Is there an incentive to lie? Of course. Same for handicap parking. Enforcement of penalties will be a near term lever Disney can utilize that they haven't done prominently in the past. The technology is there to easily identify and enforce. Do that publicly to a few influencer and it'll help tamper abuse.

At the end, Disney is trying to adjust and have it's cake too. Having the LL extend past 30minutes as a routine helps Noone.

 

[Karin1984]

No, I don't plan on watching the video. I don't need to dig into an operation system of an amusement park. It's fine if you want to teach your child the patience of waiting. It's not fine if you want to remove an entire system from a theme park just because it doesn't work for you. Notice the bolded words. After all, we're talking about Disney, not some serious issues.

This is a Disney board. We are here to discuss all things Disney. If you want to discuss the state of the world or something more serious, there is the Controversial Topics section on the Community Board. https://www.disboards.com/forums/controversial-topics.206/

Some people say: 'Who cares about ADRs', while others are at the ready to book them. The first won't care if they are removed, the booking window shortened, or whatever, the others will make a fuss.

For some a hotel with many amenities and decor is important, others do not understand that and just want a clean room with a bed. Some will get upset by changes, others won't.

A solution to the Genie + issue is indeed to remove the entire system. Not because it doesn't work for the poster, but in general the system is broken.

It's like having a project that has a lot of issues and doesn't deliver, but at a certain point you are too far in to pull the plug and just say 'Let's just stop'. But to make that decision is scary, people prefer to fix what is broken in cases like this, than to throw everything away and start over.

 

[Kit Jackson]

He does not consider the impact of DAS (which, if not being cheated, should not be that big of a deal) - and neither do I. Reason being, DAS was being used even in 2020.

That's an important point. To state the obvious, the problem isn't the existence of the DAS system, the problem is people cheating/taking unfair advantage of the system.

 

[Bossy22]

After my last trip and how bad it was without Genie+ I think there are two real options:
1.) Throw out Genie+ (Disney will never do this with the income it makes)
2.) Make Genie+ $150 a day. The "rich" will still get to wait less (way less) but it won't impact the rest of the people who have paid significantly as much as the current system does.
Will Disney do either? Nope, not unless the numbers start dropping and so far I haven't seen the huge drop in numbers I was expecting. I was going every 1.5 years but after last time I said enough and it has already been a couple of years since my last trip. I assumed more people would do likewise but the covid bubble has really impacted travel and it is just starting to see the slow down. I am very curious how busy the parks are this summer.

 

[Nickylv]

First off I want to start this off by saying I understand Disney is a business and can do what they want this is more about the outrage I see about DAS abuse vs Genie Plus

So my question's are these.

Back in the day a line was a line, you got in it and first come first serve.

Then it became FP, then Max Pass (which still had a free option)

So now you can be skipped in line by people with more money with you, and it seems like the internet while not happy about it doesn't hate it like they do DAS abuse, the only different is money is being given to Disney. Either way you have to wait longer, so why isn't there an outrage that people can just pay to skip you but people seem to think DAS is the issue when there are WAYYYY and I mean WAYYY more people using Genie plus making you wait longer and artificially raising line times making it more tempting for you to have to buy Genie Plus to have a good day.

Second question is DAS works like mobile ordering food, do people dislike those using the app to get food once again making those in line having to wait longer?

My third Thought is if Disney really wanted to stop this to make people show documents, this new policy basically passes the buck to the CM's who are already underpaid and stressed. Now they have to help people if they leave a line and come back?

Anyway, lets try to keep this as respectful as possible but I feel like I would like to understand Disney guests mind set more. To me Genie Plus is the bigger insult it's literally letting people with more money have better trips even as you pay insane prices for a ticket or Magic Key. Thanks for the input

There are people who rely on DAS to enjoy Disney parks, since they have some type of disability, its a shame that many are in the mind set that because a few abuse the system we need to punish everyone.

 

[NorCalFanatic]

Genie + is not going away. Wishful thinking by a lot but it’s here to stay. Disney is not going to go backwards and bring back an older system. I could see them going to a tiered approach in the future similar to what Legoland uses for lighting lane.

 

[nalababybear]

Genie + is not going away. Wishful thinking by a lot but it’s here to stay. Disney is not going to go backwards and bring back an older system. I could see them going to a tiered approach in the future similar to what Legoland uses for lighting lane.

Yes they are going to bring back multiple options for disabilities after the failed one size.fits.all DAS.

Along with that, if cannot.tame the G+ beast, they will start tiered out like Gplatinum and then FOTL passes

 

[DLandgirlie]

They don't have to get rid of Genie+ (although that would be ideal). They need to raise the price. Genie + lines should NOT look like Fastpass lines, and from what I've seen, that's exactly what it looks like. Ideally, there should barely be anyone in the paid Genie + line because it's a premium experience, similar to VIP. Park visitors shouldn't HAVE to feel like they need to buy it to enjoy the rides. With the crowd levels, people are feeling the need to cheat DAS or buy Genie+, and that shouldn't be the case.
They need to raise it to $50/day with the option to only use it for certain attractions. Tier it up to $100/day for all Genie+ attractions.
Keep LL, and raise it to $30 for ROTR, RSR and whatever else is considered a top rated attraction.
Just make standard lines accessible, for lack of a better word, where it reduces the need to cheat the DAS system.

 

[nalababybear]

They don't have to get rid of Genie+ (although that would be ideal). They need to raise the price. Genie + lines should NOT look like Fastpass lines, and from what I've seen, that's exactly what it looks like. Ideally, there should barely be anyone in the paid Genie + line because it's a premium experience, similar to VIP. Park visitors shouldn't HAVE to feel like they need to buy it to enjoy the rides. With the crowd levels, people are feeling the need to cheat DAS or buy Genie+, and that shouldn't be the case.
They need to raise it to $50/day with the option to only use it for certain attractions. Tier it up to $100/day for all Genie+ attractions.
Keep LL, and raise it to $30 for ROTR, RSR and whatever else is considered a top rated attraction.
Just make standard lines accessible, for lack of a better word, where it reduces the need to cheat the DAS system.

This is what Legoland does: Wait times: x: Line pass deluxe 30% time reduction to enter line, Line pass platinum: 50% time; Line pass Ultimate: 90% reduction. --it does mean the line needs to move completely ahead of standby; no ratios. Nor merge 30minute before ride like Indiana Jones.

 

[starlite_]

They don't have to get rid of Genie+ (although that would be ideal). They need to raise the price. Genie + lines should NOT look like Fastpass lines, and from what I've seen, that's exactly what it looks like. Ideally, there should barely be anyone in the paid Genie + line because it's a premium experience, similar to VIP. Park visitors shouldn't HAVE to feel like they need to buy it to enjoy the rides. With the crowd levels, people are feeling the need to cheat DAS or buy Genie+, and that shouldn't be the case.
They need to raise it to $50/day with the option to only use it for certain attractions. Tier it up to $100/day for all Genie+ attractions.
Keep LL, and raise it to $30 for ROTR, RSR and whatever else is considered a top rated attraction.
Just make standard lines accessible, for lack of a better word, where it reduces the need to cheat the DAS system.

If you want a VIP premium experience, buy a VIP tour. Making it harder for people to buy G+ isn't the solution folks think it is. It's just elitist.

 

[Smugpugmug]

I know most Disneyland guests are APs but on Undercovertourist you can purchase day tickets that include Genie+. I picked these tickets up for a trip next year (mostly because I know a price increase will occur sometime this year) but I wonder if someday Disneyland would remove the ability to add on Genie+ like WDW did.

Also I agree with people saying Genie+ will never go away. The amount of $$$ Disney makes on a skip the line service alone reinforces that they'll never return to making the system free.

 

[JerrodDragon89]

They don't have to get rid of Genie+ (although that would be ideal). They need to raise the price. Genie + lines should NOT look like Fastpass lines, and from what I've seen, that's exactly what it looks like. Ideally, there should barely be anyone in the paid Genie + line because it's a premium experience, similar to VIP. Park visitors shouldn't HAVE to feel like they need to buy it to enjoy the rides. With the crowd levels, people are feeling the need to cheat DAS or buy Genie+, and that shouldn't be the case.
They need to raise it to $50/day with the option to only use it for certain attractions. Tier it up to $100/day for all Genie+ attractions.
Keep LL, and raise it to $30 for ROTR, RSR and whatever else is considered a top rated attraction.
Just make standard lines accessible, for lack of a better word, where it reduces the need to cheat the DAS system.

Price wont do anything but make us pay more

Look at Universal, Knotts and Six Flags they charge more and people still buy it

While its a good deal, I think the system just needs tweeting still and also don't think Cars and ROTR should be separate

 

[miksicnarf]

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I understand the point you're making but I have to laugh at this pic...I assume the people inside the ballpark paid for tickets and the fence is to keep those who did not buy tickets from watching the game. Those over-the-fence watchers are cheating much like DAS scammers.

 

[DLandgirlie]

If you want a VIP premium experience, buy a VIP tour. Making it harder for people to buy G+ isn't the solution folks think it is. It's just elitist.

The fact that Disney is promoting guests to pay for a Frankenstein fast-pass lane is elitist.

Genie+ how it runs now, isn't a VIP premium experience, it's a paid Fast-pass experience.
Disney needs to convince me why I should pay for Genie+ when I already know it's the same experience as free fast-pass used to be, besides having to physically go to the location to receive a return time. Using my phone to get a return time, isn't worth $30/day, imo.

Genie+ should have been designed to be better than Fast-pass, since people are paying for the experience to ride faster.

If you're going to charge for it, make it so that when I get in that Genie+ line, I practically walk on the ride.
I've tried Genie+ a couple times, and even with the AP discount, it isn't worth it, imo.

The standard line will run smoother if the Genie+ line becomes less congested. Right now, I believe they are instructed to make Genie + a priority, but the Genie+ lines are long, which backs up the standard line.

Or limit the amount of Genie+ purchases (which won't happen).

There's a break point for Genie+, just like there was a break point for AP's.

 

[Tinkaboo]

Well thank goodness we live in a country where we have free will…if I want to buy Genie+ today, I can. If I choose a more leisurely day at the park with not many rides, I just go early and leave when tired without Genie+.

My point is we all make our own choices. I don’t begrudge those who can afford a VIP tour, maybe someday I’ll get one. I don’t belittle those who bring in a lunch because either they can’t afford park food or don’t like it (that would be me).

Our world needs a bit more kindness and tolerance and general respect for others. Less vitriol. Sometimes it gets too touchy on these boards with the back and forth.

You do have the free will to be mean…why would you want to? At the airport a few weeks ago, a young man was sitting in a handicapped chair because it was crowded. I was standing. When he got up to leave, I took the seat. He came back and said “oh, I was still sitting there.” I asked if he was handicapped and he just looked at me funny and said no. As he turned away, he snidely said, not quite under his breath, “are you?” This hurt my feelings but that’s my problem I guess. I taught my child to always give his seat to a woman or an elderly person ESPECIALLY when on the Disney buses.

Please, just try to do one kind thing for someone today…

 

[NorCalFanatic]

We love Genie+, worth every cent for us. Walk on in some cases, 5-10 mins is typical though. A little over a week ago when RSR was 190 mins standby, LL was 20ish mins. First day of seasons of the force with new scenes, Star Tours was over 90 mins, and the LL was all the way back to the Plaza Inn….22 mins from when we entered the LL line to putting on the seatbelts. Still worth it for us. It lets us ride more rides and spend more quality time doing things together as a family.

 

[DizMe]

As far as DAS, I've no experience. I have a DD who was diagnosed with what used to be called Asperger's. She was very high functioning and we opted not to utilize DAS because we were able to avoid most of the things that set her off or remove ourselves. We stayed on site because we could go back to the hotel if needed. She ADORED Disneyland and didn't want to leave so we were able to utilize certain strategies in her situation that helped her be able to navigate the park without major meltdowns (usually). We did quickly learn that bathrooms were an issue due to the self-flushing toilets! The things she had to do (walk in special patterns, only step on certain shapes, count everything, avoid eye contact and conversation with anyone who wasn't family or a princess, have something she could actively chew on like a rubber toy) were not things DAS would have helped with, I don't think. Most of the rides we went on were so wonderful to her that the main issue was the noise level. We had to leave before fireworks, be cautious of cannons and guns etc, and avoid any character that wasn't a princess, Wendy, or Alice.

Since I know what we dealt with in her situation, I am totally in favor of DAS being available to those who need it. I DETEST cheaters and wish them a horrible day at DLR. You are ruining the experience for people who truly need it, and had our daughter not been just a little less able to cope, we would have been so grateful to have the DAS option.

 

[DizMe]

When it comes to Genie+, I'm not one who has purchased it so no experience with using it. I do have experience being affected by it, though. The more people there are at the park, the worse the experience UNLESS you buy Genie+. That, of course, creates a larger problem.

Now I'm older, go fairly often, and not traveling with my family so I can just skip an attraction if the line is too long. But you can't always tell! I once got in a standby line for Space that said 40 minutes. That 40 minutes was dead wrong and I stood in a claustrophobic tunnel for over an hour, and that was just the tunnel part of the wait. Meanwhile, streams and streams of Genie+ people went by with almost no standby guests allowed in. Because the G+ people were promised this experience for which they'd paid extra, the rest of us were stuck. I'm ok with waiting longer for something, but NOT MOVING is the worst, especially in a stagnant, claustrophobic space with no idea how long you'll be there and you're too short to see anything going on ahead.

The thing is, it seems like it creates a monster. The more people who are forced to endure an agonizing wait, the more will break down and purchase Genie+. The more that purchase Genie+, the worse the experience is for everyone and no one is happy. It's a no-win because if most are using Genie+, it ruins the whole system.

 

[Lumpy1106]

Setting a really high price to skip lines is exactly what 6-Flags/Cedarfair did - and it works WAY better.