DAS Outrage vs Genie Plus Outrage?

[gelatoni fan]

I think you have confused who you are responding to but no matter.

Spending a day with "my group" would be a slow slog through a park, maybe only 3-4 hours and no rides. Boring, right? I will gladly hold your backpack and wait patiently in a shady spot while you go on a ride.

People that travel with us get treated to DVC villas and we pick up the tab for lovely meals when appropriate. DH and I try to arrive a day early to stock our villa with cases of water, whatever the guests prefer for drinks like beer, wine (though we don't drink) and snacks. They are invited to our villa to pick up their goodies when they arrive. We always have at least a 1 BR with a kitchen and dining room so we can prepare a nice breakfast for our guests if they will join us. My DH and I are excellent hosts at home or at WDW. Guests tell us we are better than any B & B they have ever been too!

Why wouldn't I treat you nicely? I guess I am mature enough to know I will not always agree with others, and I am not afraid to articulate my feelings, politely. There are many things we likely don't agree on, however respect and kindness are definitely something that is important to me.

Cheaters deserve to get banned for life. DAS folks deserve to experience life. There is a huge difference between the two.

I think I may have intended to respond to two different people and mixed it up into one post.

I agree that is it not right for people to cheat the system and I agree that DAS folks should be able to experience life.
If it wasn't clear, I do not wish for legitimate users of DAS to have a worse experience in the parks and I don't think people using DAS properly are doing anything wrong.

What makes it wrong for the cheaters to skip the line is that they are wrongfully using DAS to do so. People who are legitimately using DAS are not doing anything wrong even though they are also skipping lines or waiting in more comfortable locations.

Now for the part that some people may not agree with:
I believe it would be benefitial for park visitors if Disney returned to an era of free fastpass rather than charge for Genie+ so that there is a legitimate way for able bodied people to skip lines without paying extra.

 

[xipotec]

The reality is , when you have more money, you get better services. It's all over tourism and many many other businesses.
Most of them changed to that model years ago, Disney was just late to the party.

DAS is simply people lying and cheating to get better services. (No not everyone) but the reality is they changed it because of true rampant abuse. Sad thing is , a lot of people who were abusing it, really believe that deserve it.

One is not the same as the other.

 

[nalababybear]

I think I may have intended to respond to two different people and mixed it up into one post.

I agree that is it not right for people to cheat the system and I agree that DAS folks should be able to experience life.
If it wasn't clear, I do not wish for legitimate users of DAS to have a worse experience in the parks and I don't think people using DAS properly are doing anything wrong.

What makes it wrong for the cheaters to skip the line is that they are wrongfully using DAS to do so. People who are legitimately using DAS are not doing anything wrong even though they are also skipping lines or waiting in more comfortable locations.

Now for the part that some people may not agree with:
I believe it would be benefitial for park visitors if Disney returned to an era of free fastpass rather than charge for Genie+ so that there is a legitimate way for able bodied people to skip lines without paying extra.

DAS do not skip lines. They actually wait twice -- Standby time and LL time minus the ten minutes.

DAS holders wait in more appropriate settings that meet their needs. As you know, that's the design.

Disney not going back to max pass/fp era. That ship has left as did GAC. We can wax poetic about it, not going to happen. Mighty dollar rules.

 

[raidermatt]

G+ is not the reason for more DAS cheating. Period.

DAS do not skip lines. They actually wait twice -- Standby time and LL time minus the ten minutes.

DAS holders wait in more appropriate settings that meet their needs. As you know, that's the design.

...

Semantics. They are skipping the standby line in favor of coming back to the LL. Regardless of how you categorize it, it's a service many would use if available. As proven by how many cheat to use it.

 

[nalababybear]

G+ is not the reason for more DAS cheating. Period.

DA

Semantics. They are skipping the standby line in favor of coming back to the LL. Regardless of how you categorize it, it's a service many would use if available. As proven by how many cheat to use it.

An important difference. In fact are waiting time wise in two lines that should not be dismissed out of hand.

Cheaters Are that. Cheaters. Enforcement needs to be ramped up and publicly shown with clear consequences...ban from parks. That'll get the high using cheats to think about actions.

 

[raidermatt]

Now for the part that some people may not agree with:
I believe it would be benefitial for park visitors if Disney returned to an era of free fastpass rather than charge for Genie+ so that there is a legitimate way for able bodied people to skip lines without paying extra.

While I would love a return to the FP+ days, this would not be a solution to the DAS cheating problem.

The only reason DAS exists is because it replaced the GAC program in 2013 due to rampant abuse of the GAC program. FP's were very much free at the time. But like any option that grants priority access to attractions, FP use had to be limited. And those limitations mean cheaters will cheat. Even if you made G+ free, the use limitations would mean cheaters would still cheat.

The ONLY way to disincentivize the cheaters is to completely get rid of any program that allows those covered under the ADA to bypass standby lines. Then cheaters would have no outlet to cheat, beyond pushing through the standby line. That would not be a wise thing for Disney to do, so Disney is once again making changes to cut down on the cheating while maintaining their ADA compliance.

 

[raidermatt]

An important difference. In fact are waiting time wise in two lines that should not be dismissed out of hand.

Cheaters Are that. Cheaters. Enforcement needs to be ramped up and publicly shown with clear consequences...ban from parks. That'll get the high using cheats to think about actions.

It's not about dismissing anything. It's just reality that it greatly cuts down on time spent standing in line because the standby line is skipped. If it didn't, nobody would use it, legitimate or otherwise.

 

[nalababybear]

It's not about dismissing anything. It's just reality that it greatly cuts down on time spent standing in line because the standby line is skipped. If it didn't, nobody would use it, legitimate or otherwise.

Time waiting is time waiting. In fact, waiting more.

Cheaters can certainly optimize and get ahead. Enforcement against them is the solution. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is not

 

[AquaDame]

Time waiting is time waiting. In fact, waiting more.

Cheaters can certainly optimize and get ahead. Enforcement against them is the solution. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is not

Its not the waiting, its the standing and standing and standing for hours... even healthy people suffer from it ere long. (but that's what we sign up for when we choose to go, so.... we suck it up!)

 

[gelatoni fan]

While I would love a return to the FP+ days, this would not be a solution to the DAS cheating problem.

The only reason DAS exists is because it replaced the GAC program in 2013 due to rampant abuse of the GAC program. FP's were very much free at the time. But like any option that grants priority access to attractions, FP use had to be limited. And those limitations mean cheaters will cheat. Even if you made G+ free, the use limitations would mean cheaters would still cheat.

The ONLY way to disincentivize the cheaters is to completely get rid of any program that allows those covered under the ADA to bypass standby lines. Then cheaters would have no outlet to cheat, beyond pushing through the standby line. That would not be a wise thing for Disney to do, so Disney is once again making changes to cut down on the cheating while maintaining their ADA compliance.

A partial solution that minimizes a problem is still an improvement even if it does not completely eradicate the problem. Prohibition led to an increase in organized crime and repealing prohibition led to a decrease in organized crime. In this case, the government brought organized crime to a more manageable level by repealing the law that led to more organized crime rather than spending more on enforcement alone. When there are legitimate routes for doing things, fewer people choose the illegitimate route.

If the statistics people are reporting are true, there are now 3 to 5 times more people using DAS than before free fastpass was removed. Some are of course legitimate users of DAS who may not have used it before but at least some of this is an increase in cheaters. If Disney goes back to free fastpass, a portion of cheaters will no longer cheat.

Disney chose to change enforcement. This does not mean there aren't other ways of addressing the cheating problem and it also doesn't mean that the cheating problem will be eliminated.

In terms of ADA compliance, it is required to have accomodations that make places accessible to people with disabilities. It is not required to exclude people without disabilities from using these. Volcano Bay in Orlando has everybody use a virtual queue system so there is no additional program for people with disabilities to bypass standby lines. This is ADA compliant.

 

[whiteness]

Sir, this is a Wendy's.

At Disney World? Not likely.

 

[DLandgirlie]

I think the conclusion is fair: DAS cheaters want to maximize their time in the park without having to pay for it. They are the true recipients of what fast pass used to be.
Able bodied people, getting a return time allows for free time to watch a parade, ride a shorter lined ride, eat, meet a character etc.
When a valid recipient of DAS uses the program, they are waiting to ride and have limitations to multi-tasking their time like an able bodied person. So yes they do take breaks, have a snack etc. IMO, they absolutely have the right to go into a shorter line, meet a character or watch a parade as well, because their time most likely is limited in the first place based on their disability and the complexities that come along with it while traveling.

 

[nalababybear]

I think the conclusion is fair: DAS cheaters want to maximize their time in the park without having to pay for it. They are the true recipients of what fast pass used to be.
Able bodied people, getting a return time allows for free time to watch a parade, ride a shorter lined ride, eat, meet a character etc.
When a valid recipient of DAS uses the program, they are waiting to ride and have limitations to multi-tasking their time like an able bodied person. So yes they do take breaks, have a snack etc. IMO, they absolutely have the right to go into a shorter line, meet a character or watch a parade as well, because their time most likely is limited in the first place based on their disability and the complexities that come along with it while traveling.

This, and Disney going back to a multi-tiered needs based accommodation approach.

Enhanced enforcement to misrepresentations is the key to cut down abuse. PR outreach to 'influencers' and then drop the hammer with a few well placed public tiktok banishments will go a long way IMHO.

 

[nalababybear]

Its not the waiting, its the standing and standing and standing for hours... even healthy people suffer from it ere long. (but that's what we sign up for when we choose to go, so.... we suck it up!)

That's why we bring a 4wheeled walker with seat for DS. Still have to wait.

 

[Smugpugmug]

At Disney World? Not likely.

This thread is in the Disneyland forum, so let me rephrase. Sir, this is an In-N-Out.

 

[50sjayne]

We are a family of 5. Chapek's fee to use would cost us way too much as my husband is retired and I work at Albertsons... we gained custody of our grand's a few years back and promptly took them to Disney just under the wire for the genie plus, we had DAS for one grand as she is adhd, but my son is autistic, I had just been diagnosed with plantar fasciitis and my husband was having double knee replacement a few months later. It totally saved us. We just went up to city hall and it took minutes! This time I decided to try the online registration thing....ridiculous! Waited 4 hours, cut off, another 2 to find out I needed to download the app., then cut off (cm did manage to help us with putting names to numbers) then another 5 hours and a few more here and there. Glad we did it for the 2 free return times but jeez-- I hope hey hire Lots of help if they require online! There is just too many people for this poor little park anymore and nothing Disney does makes a dent. **just got back yesterday 4/13-15

 

[StormyCA]

Here's my pessimistic Eeyore viewpoint.

There were a lot of GAC abusers who were either lying to get a GAC for personal use with 'excessive' friends and family or individuals using a valid one for 'commercial purposes'. Disney cracked down and DAS was born.

Now DAS has a lot of abusers who are again lying to get a DAS for personal use with excessive friends and family. I don't know if there's the same problem with 'commercial use' but it sounds as if there may be, although in a much 'stealthier' way.

So now Disney is going to institute new hoops to jump through and that's good. But it's not going to solve the problem in the long run. People will still lie to get one and certain others will still abuse the ones they have. It's going to take awhile before people catch on to exactly how to do it with the new rules, but those 'cheats' will eventually reach Social Media and also be quietly disseminated by word of mouth. So it will happen eventually. And they'll think that the chances of Disney 'catching' and banning them are slim to none and they're probably right. And so once again a few years from now, Disney will 'revamp' the procedure. The ADA & HIPAA prevent the strictest of measures as a violation of the privacy of the disabled individual, and I don't disagree with that. The bottom line is that this program, meant to help those in true need of accommodation, will be in constant flux and will always be subject to abuse.

Do I have a solution? Nope. I don't think there is one.

 

[Minnie1222]

Here's my pessimistic Eeyore viewpoint.

I don't think your view is pessimistic at all. It's actually most realistic. The faster people accept reality, the quicker they can move on.

 

[whiteness]

This thread is in the Disneyland forum, so let me rephrase. Sir, this is an In-N-Out.

How about a Joffrey's? That works at both locations.

 

[raidermatt]

Time waiting is time waiting. In fact, waiting more.

Cheaters can certainly optimize and get ahead. Enforcement against them is the solution. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is not

Time waiting is not time waiting and you know it. Given the choice to spend 60 minutes standing in a line or 60 minutes doing almost anything else we all know what 100% would choose. If "time waiting was time waiting", DAS would have no value.

The changes are about ensuring those qualified under the ADA can utilize a program compliant with the ADA, while limiting usage by those not qualified. No baby is being thrown out.