Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[Deb & Bill]

Let's hope that's not the case. I have a very valid reason to not want to go before a vaccine is developed. I also highly doubt that the parks can reopen and fill all existing reservations before a vaccine is developed. A second wave of the virus is expected this fall and winter and a vaccine is not expected to be available for another year at the earliest. We shall see though. If the antibody tests become widely available soon, and I'm shown to have them despite never having any symptoms, or if I get the virus and recover before my trip, those are the only ways I would consider going at this point. Or if a vaccine miraculously becomes available before Sept.

My guess is that if the resorts are open for business and you have a contract with David, you are expected to take the trip you reserved. If you don't go, you better have trip insurance that will cover your need to cancel. Otherwise, you may lose what you paid.

 

[yankeesfan123]

Let's hope that's not the case. I have a very valid reason to not want to go before a vaccine is developed. I also highly doubt that the parks can reopen and fill all existing reservations before a vaccine is developed. A second wave of the virus is expected this fall and winter and a vaccine is not expected to be available for another year at the earliest. We shall see though. If the antibody tests become widely available soon, and I'm shown to have them despite never having any symptoms, or if I get the virus and recover before my trip, those are the only ways I would consider going at this point. Or if a vaccine miraculously becomes available before Sept.

I am in the same boat (August trip) but I honestly expect to lose my $3400. Even if the resorts are open, I’m not sure I’d bring my family of 6 down. Unless Dave’s wants to graciously check to see if my owners are willing the rebook me, I think I’m out the money. But David’s is under no obligation to do that, and nor are the owners.

 

[piccolopat]

Shouldn't all of the money paid for a reservation be put into an escrow account until the renter checked in? This would protect all parties since the money would be there in case something like this happened. Perhaps David's should get a small fee in these cases shared by both the owner and renter, but certainly not the charge they are insisting to keep under this situation. It seems that David's was almost running a pyramid scheme since he doesn't have the 30% on hand that is owed to owners on these contracts.

 

[starry_solo]

Shouldn't all of the money paid for a reservation be put into an escrow account until the renter checked in? This would protect all parties since the money would be there in case something like this happened. Perhaps David's should get a small fee in these cases shared by both the owner and renter, but certainly not the charge they are insisting to keep under this situation. It seems that David's was almost running a pyramid scheme since he doesn't have the 30% on hand that is owed to owners on these contracts.

escrow costs money so if he needed to do that for each transaction, he would pass the costs on to the parties and for small amounts, it’s not likely “worth” it

 

[Sandisw]

Shouldn't all of the money paid for a reservation be put into an escrow account until the renter checked in? This would protect all parties since the money would be there in case something like this happened. Perhaps David's should get a small fee in these cases shared by both the owner and renter, but certainly not the charge they are insisting to keep under this situation. It seems that David's was almost running a pyramid scheme since he doesn't have the 30% on hand that is owed to owners on these contracts.

As an owner, I wouldn’t use a broker, if all funds were held, I think he had the 30%...I think the decided to not send it to all owners as leverage to get them to return the 70% or agree to enter in to a different rental contract,

I don’t plan to use him again....not even sure if I will do rentals at all at this point,

 

[Grnl706]

if the resorts are open and the parks are closed, it’s unlikely David’s would make this offer available

That is what I'm thinking as well. They made a point to say Resort Closure. I don't recall seeing them mention the parks. It's a shame because if the parks are closed and I'm not local, I'd be pretty upset but I guess it is what it is. My reservation is mid June and if I go by what Disney is doing right now (accepting reservations starting June 1st) I am mentally preparing to lose all of my money.

 

[McCrae]

Shouldn't all of the money paid for a reservation be put into an escrow account until the renter checked in? This would protect all parties since the money would be there in case something like this happened. Perhaps David's should get a small fee in these cases shared by both the owner and renter, but certainly not the charge they are insisting to keep under this situation. It seems that David's was almost running a pyramid scheme since he doesn't have the 30% on hand that is owed to owners on these contracts.

I think very few owners would make points available under this scenario. It’s not worth the risk of a dispute and points potentially expiring before any issues are resolved.

 

[Maddiesmum03]

Shouldn't all of the money paid for a reservation be put into an escrow account until the renter checked in? This would protect all parties since the money would be there in case something like this happened. Perhaps David's should get a small fee in these cases shared by both the owner and renter, but certainly not the charge they are insisting to keep under this situation. It seems that David's was almost running a pyramid scheme since he doesn't have the 30% on hand that is owed to owners on these contracts.

I for one would not rent my points if I did not receive most of the money for that rental up front. I rent points when I need a cash injection more than I need a vacation.....at the time I decide to rent, not at check in nearly a year later!

 

[minthorne]

I am an owner who in the past has rented from other owners and David's.

I would just like to express my opinion that Renters do not rent points. Renters rent the reservation. All point transactions are between the Owner and DCV. Once the Owner has used points to secure the Reservation then they in turn rent that reservation to the renter. The use of points to arrive at a price for the reservation is not the same as renting points.

I'm pretty sure Disney would not allow the renting of "points". Renting "points" implies giving temporary custody and control of points to an entity other than the owner. That is not allowed under the DVC contract except in a point transfer which are only allowed once a year in or out. Renting accommodations procured by points is allowed.

From David's Rental Agreement (for example)
"The Intermediary has received from Renter a NON REFUNDABLE payment of $0000.00 US Dollars in return for a confirmed reservation, using Member's Disney Vacation Club points, at RESORT in a ROOM TYPE to arrive on ARRIVAL DATE and depart on DEPARTURE DATE with a confirmation number of #########. "

With that in mind, if the owner can no longer provide a confirmed reservation then this contract is void and the renter is entitled to a full refund.

Just my opinions though...

 

[Amymouse13]

I am an owner who in the past has rented from other owners and David's.

I would just like to express my opinion that Renters do not rent points. Renters rent the reservation. All point transactions are between the Owner and DCV. Once the Owner has used points to secure the Reservation then they in turn rent that reservation to the renter. The use of points to arrive at a price for the reservation is not the same as renting points.

I'm pretty sure Disney would not allow the renting of "points". Renting "points" implies giving temporary custody and control of points to an entity other than the owner. That is not allowed under the DVC contract except in a point transfer which are only allowed once a year in or out. Renting accommodations procured by points is allowed.

From David's Rental Agreement (for example)
"The Intermediary has received from Renter a NON REFUNDABLE payment of $0000.00 US Dollars in return for a confirmed reservation, using Member's Disney Vacation Club points, at RESORT in a ROOM TYPE to arrive on ARRIVAL DATE and depart on DEPARTURE DATE with a confirmation number of #########. "

With that in mind, if the owner can no longer provide a confirmed reservation then this contract is void and the renter is entitled to a full refund.

Just my opinions though...

I underlined this part of contract when I made my chargeback... And the letter from David's saying my reservation was cancelled.

 

[Sandisw]

I am an owner who in the past has rented from other owners and David's.

I would just like to express my opinion that Renters do not rent points. Renters rent the reservation. All point transactions are between the Owner and DCV. Once the Owner has used points to secure the Reservation then they in turn rent that reservation to the renter. The use of points to arrive at a price for the reservation is not the same as renting points.

I'm pretty sure Disney would not allow the renting of "points". Renting "points" implies giving temporary custody and control of points to an entity other than the owner. That is not allowed under the DVC contract except in a point transfer which are only allowed once a year in or out. Renting accommodations procured by points is allowed.

From David's Rental Agreement (for example)
"The Intermediary has received from Renter a NON REFUNDABLE payment of $0000.00 US Dollars in return for a confirmed reservation, using Member's Disney Vacation Club points, at RESORT in a ROOM TYPE to arrive on ARRIVAL DATE and depart on DEPARTURE DATE with a confirmation number of #########. "

With that in mind, if the owner can no longer provide a confirmed reservation then this contract is void and the renter is entitled to a full refund.

Just my opinions though...

Someone posted somewhere that the contract or deed specifically mentions that points can not be rented, as they simply represent a fractional share of ownership in a resort.

 

[fsjking]

I am an owner who in the past has rented from other owners and David's.

I would just like to express my opinion that Renters do not rent points. Renters rent the reservation. All point transactions are between the Owner and DCV. Once the Owner has used points to secure the Reservation then they in turn rent that reservation to the renter. The use of points to arrive at a price for the reservation is not the same as renting points.

I'm pretty sure Disney would not allow the renting of "points". Renting "points" implies giving temporary custody and control of points to an entity other than the owner. That is not allowed under the DVC contract except in a point transfer which are only allowed once a year in or out. Renting accommodations procured by points is allowed.

From David's Rental Agreement (for example)
"The Intermediary has received from Renter a NON REFUNDABLE payment of $0000.00 US Dollars in return for a confirmed reservation, using Member's Disney Vacation Club points, at RESORT in a ROOM TYPE to arrive on ARRIVAL DATE and depart on DEPARTURE DATE with a confirmation number of #########. "

With that in mind, if the owner can no longer provide a confirmed reservation then this contract is void and the renter is entitled to a full refund.

Just my opinions though...

Someone posted somewhere that the contract or deed specifically mentions that points can not be rented, as they simply represent a fractional share of ownership in a resort.

Yeah, owners cannot rent or sell points without transferring their ownership interest.

If someone wants to sell me their points for the $14.50 a point they got, I'm all ears.

 

[Dentam]

I am in the same boat (August trip) but I honestly expect to lose my $3400. Even if the resorts are open, I’m not sure I’d bring my family of 6 down. Unless Dave’s wants to graciously check to see if my owners are willing the rebook me, I think I’m out the money. But David’s is under no obligation to do that, and nor are the owners.

I may lose my money as well. Mine was about $1,350 and I paid it last October so at least it's not money out of my pocket in the present day situation. I also hadn't bought airfare or park tickets yet, so that's good. Still, I could definitely use that money for other things at this point, or would ideally just love to have a reservation at a later date to look forward to. I'm prepared, like you, to lose that money though.

Still, I have no idea how the parks or resorts can open and keep their current level of reservations... I just read that developing a vaccine even in 18 months would be unheard of. The fastest one ever developed took four years!

 

[VeroGuy]

After seeing the latest update from David’s my worry about this situation is a little less. I Would hope that going forward he at least issues a weekly update on the situation to help tamp down the anxiety that both renters and owners are having over this situation.

It sounds promising and most will be happy with these results as they can probably find time and money within the 15 month period to take a trip, even if it costs a little more than the amount of the original reservation. I would still like to see the fine print before getting to excited though.

 

[McCrae]

Someone posted somewhere that the contract or deed specifically mentions that points can not be rented, as they simply represent a fractional share of ownership in a resort.

Disney allows you to rent points providing it’s not done on a commercial scale. Disney basically rent the points they own every year.

 

[McCrae]

Yeah, owners cannot rent or sell points without transferring their ownership interest.

If someone wants to sell me their points for the $14.50 a point they got, I'm all ears.

View attachment 486929

Not correct. You can transfer on a one off basis points from one owner to another.

 

[Sandisw]

Disney allows you to rent points providing it’s not done on a commercial scale. Disney basically rent the points they own every year.

Yes, we can rent a reservation made with points.

The language that was posted above specifically states points can nit , It May be a small distinction, but technically, it is the reservation we are allowed rent not the actual points themselves.

 

[Krandor]

After seeing the latest update from David’s my worry about this situation is a little less. I Would hope that going forward he at least issues a weekly update on the situation to help tamp down the anxiety that both renters and owners are having over this situation.

It sounds promising and most will be happy with these results as they can probably find time and money within the 15 month period to take a trip, even if it costs a little more than the amount of the original reservation. I would still like to see the fine print before getting to excited though.

The question is can david afford to pay for everybody to be able to take a trip within 15 months?

 

[LAX]

I've been pretty negative towards David's and the way they've handled things thus far, but have to say that I'm impressed that they are giving the renters so many options, plus 15 months to rebook. I think they are going to survive this!

I think it's still too early to say. I have nothing against David's as a company, but I think he is going to have a hard time getting owners in the future to rent their points through him after reports of some owners getting screwed.

LAX

 

[Sandisw]

The question is can david afford to pay for everybody to be able to take a trip within 15 months?

I wonder too. I would think the vouchers will be dependent on the current owners who had renters during the closed period either returning the 70% of renting the points again to a new renter so that money can be used to cover cost of the voucher,

Who makes up the difference If you have an owner walking away with the 70% because the points that were used are expiring?