Do You Consider Yourself a Feminist?

[pahoben]

I would be glad to take as many unwanted children as the law would allow me to take. But why is it abortion or keeping an unwanted child? Why not encourage the woman to give the child up for adoption?

Are you seriously saying "well that child would probably end up committing a crime so he should be killed before birth"?

And what is or isn't a "sin" is pretty clear. But we all sin in one way or another so I don't think that even needs to be brought up.

Instead of bemoaning the fact that we don't live in a world of "should be", perhaps anyone that feels the things should come to pass with the abortion laws should speak out about that instead of throwing extreme cases at anyone that is pro-life?

There are 100,000 available right now with more to come so you are falling behind. How many have you adopted this far?

I am saying a women should make these decisions herself without the intervention of the government.

 

[pahoben]

Yes, because the law would let me take 100,000--insert eye roll here. You know its not that easy and that is something we can fight for a change.

Again, we are talking about BABIES. There are hardly 100,000 babies up for adoption. You make it sound like all of the children in foster care would have been aborted. They could have been and weren't for some reason. So one doesn't really have that much to do with the other.

How many have you adopted this far?

 

[NYDisGuy]

Feels like people just want these babies to be born so 18 years from now, when that same baby has been through 15 foster homes and is struggling to survive, is then told by that person to get a better job and pick themselves up by their bootstraps!

 

[pahoben]

How many have you adopted this far?

Okay then how many have you tried to adopt?

 

[luvsJack]

1. How much harder does it need to be? One has to walk through protestors (at many clinics), being yelled at and ridiculed for their choice. One has to read a packet of information on what the abortion entails, and in many states (IDK how many), have to return to the clinic 24 hours later so that the information has had a chance to sink in. One is strapped to a table (at least ankles, but I've heard of thighs as well), given medication to numb (but not block all sensation), and then one waits. After, one is helped to stand, given instructions on what to do, and then is escorted out of the building, back into that crowd of protestors, who are now even more vicious in their comments. There is pain...physical and emotional and mental. An abortion is not something to take lightly. But it's utter crud that people are allowed to harass other people that way outside a medical clinic; there's no mandatory 24 hour waiting period to get an IUD or a tooth pulled or breast augmentation surgery; only for an abortion.

2. Yeah, let's give free birth control! I'm all for that. But when the young girl goes to the clinic above to pick up those pills or get their shot, they have to wade through those protestors, and they are just as vicious to those girls getting BCP as they are with those getting an abortion. After all, how can they tell whose who? Most women getting an abortion are not getting one when they are showing a pregnancy, so how can you tell who is just getting BCP and who is getting an abortion? You can't. So they harass everyone. And the government keeps removing funding for those free birth control clinics, and women/children care clinics, and forget sex education...the old men in charge want it to be abstinance only. Do you really think that a 16 year old boy or girl will say "oh hey, I can't have sex until I married because old man says so"? Nope, they will do it anyways, but without the information that a condom can prevent an STD or that no BC is 100% effective.

ETA: Sometimes there are videos involved in the process. I forgot to mention those.

3. Those babies grow up into toddlers, who still need homes. Where are the people adopting them? Those toddlers grow up into children, who still need homes. Where are the people adopting them? Those children grow up to be teenagers, who still need homes. Where are the people adopting them? 100,000 kids in an adoptable system, but how many really get adopted? And those that aren't able to be adopted? Where are the people helping to raise them?

The entire system is broken. And again, I'll say to you, my uterus, my business.

If 20 couples are applying to adopt each baby, how many babies are ending up staying in foster care? The average time for a child to be in foster care is 3 years. So that growing up in foster care isn't the norm. Many children are in foster care because of something their parents have done. Look at those 400,000 and tell me, how many should have died? How many of them would they mother have made that choice? Being a drug addict when your child is 7 doesn't mean you didn't want and love the baby when it was born. Foster care and abortion are not hand in hand necessarily.

We have several clinics that give away birth control. None of them have anyone outside protesting. No one outside the Planned Parenthood clinic either. So that isn't the case everywhere.

Same with your version of sex ed. Not like that everywhere.

 

[luvsJack]

Divorce is an option. Hypothetically, if my husband went and got a vasectomy without discussing it with me at all I'd probably start considering one.

I would too but again, there are people that believe strongly in "till death do us part".

 

[pahoben]

Okay then how many have you tried to adopt?

That is exactly my point.

 

[Wishing on a star]

WOW.....
(the above is just one more negative and ridiculous and judgemental assumption / prejudice... One of many incredible 'stretches'.)
And the Mods are allowing this argumentive and now-very-political thread to continue, why?

Somebody told me that they pitied me because I am a woman is not a feminist. (perhaps, as the saying goes, pity is just one small step away from hatred)
It was assumed that as a woman I would, and should, agree with most all of the feminist viewpoint.
Well, if this thread is still being allowed, to clarify, I will say this.
Nothing could be further than the truth.
I am not identifying as a feminist because I disagree with a great deal of the associated viewpoints.
I simply choose not to be associated with those who have a negative and 'victim' attitude, who advocate for the loss of innocent developing babies, and who might be seen, very publicly, wearing T-shirts that say 'NASTY'.

 

[Moliphino]

I would too but again, there are people that believe strongly in "till death do us part".

That's their business, then. Couples don't always agree on the number of children they want to have, it's up to them to work that out. I still think it's wrong for a doctor to require permission from a spouse to do a vasectomy/tubal/etc.

 

[kiddo76]

I would too but again, there are people that believe strongly in "till death do us part".

Even the Roman Catholic Church would allow an annulment of marriage based on such conditions.

 

[mousefan73]

My body. End of story.

 

[pezgirlroy]

Well actually, take the tools for example. LOTS of women's basic tool sets but most come in pink. So reckon how the man on the petite side feels using a pink hammer? I would think HE would feel more discriminated against than women who CAN get usable tools for them.

ALL of that stuff comes in sizes for women/small men.

I am confused, why in the world should a man feel discriminated for using a pink hammer.

 

[pezgirlroy]

I understand that this is a very stark but if an individual decides to abort a fetus that is their decision. From my viewpoint it is better to abort a fetus than to bring another unwanted child into the world that then has a high probability of being a dysfunctional adult. In principle I have no problem accepting abortion as the last line of birth control if a women decides that is the best decision.

One of the things that is getting lost in these discussions is that there are many woman who do not want to abort. The pregnancy is a very wanted pregnancy but do to factors related to health and other things it is the best decision (even though it is the most heartbreaking/horrifying/difficult) decision that person will ever have to make. This decision is only to be made by the woman and her medical team.

 

[lifesavacation]

My body. End of story.

That’s what it comes down to for me. It’s not even about abortion. The government has no business telling me what I can do with my body.

 

[pezgirlroy]

Actually, abortions are at their lowest point ever in this country. This is due to better education, better birth control, better access to doctors, etc. Convenience abortions are the exception not the rule in today's world.

The vast majority of today's abortions are all about the health of the mother or the child.

Yes they are and in these situations it is a horribly heartbreaking decision for the mother.

 

[kaytieeldr]

therefore pro-choice is actually anti-life.

It’s pro life, not anti choice. I know it’s hard for pro choice to accept they are actually pro death and want to gloss it over.

No.

Pro-choice is, literally, for choice.

I choose for me.
You choose for you.
Your wife chooses for herslf.
The govenment chooses for nobody.

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

So you are perfectly fine with a man procreating with someone other than his wife? You do realize that there are actually people out there that do believe in "till death do us part"?

Not my life. Not my choice.

I would be glad to take as many unwanted children as the law would allow me to take. But why is it abortion or keeping an unwanted child? Why not encourage the woman to give the child up for adoption?

Are you seriously saying "well that child would probably end up committing a crime so he should be killed before birth"?

And what is or isn't a "sin" is pretty clear. But we all sin in one way or another so I don't think that even needs to be brought up.

Instead of bemoaning the fact that we don't live in a world of "should be", perhaps anyone that feels the things should come to pass with the abortion laws should speak out about that instead of throwing extreme cases at anyone that is pro-life?

Again, how many babies have you adopted? How many of those pregnant women did you personally help? Right...zero. Things that come with abortion laws:

ABORTION FACTS AROUND THE WORLD:

• 1/3 of all pregnancies worldwide are unplanned
• Approximately 25% of the world population lives in countries with highly restrictive abortion laws, mostly in Asia, Africa and Latin America
• One woman dies every 7 minutes around the world due to an unsafe illegal abortion. Women who undergo illegal abortions are those who are very poor and do not have access to family planning facilities for education and prevention of unwanted pregnancies
• Making abortion illegal or legal has no effect on the total number of abortions performed in the world. Making abortion legal dramatically reduces maternal morbidity and mortality.
• Nearly 50% of pregnancies that occur yearly are unwanted with nearly ½ of those pregnant women terminating their pregnancy. In essence; 42 million choose to terminate their pregnancy with close to half of those (20 million) being illegal.

Common complications from unsafe abortions are cervical tears, retained pregnancy tissue, severe heavy bleeding, sepsis, uterine perforation, bladder and bowel damage, which can lead to maternal death if patients are not treated in a timely matter. Death may also result from such complications as gas gangrene of the uterus and acute renal failure. The patient can become permanently disabled due to stroke, or septic clots that form in the upper or lower extremities that lead to the necessity for removal. If a patient develops a severe infection it can lead to tubo-ovarian abscess, pelvic inflammatory disease (PID) which may result in a high incidence of infertility and ectopic pregnancy.

Between 10 and 50% of unsafe abortion cases need medical attention but a lot of women delay or decide not to seek medical care. This is because in a lot of countries where it is illegal to have abortions performed, the women who go to the hospital for help will be reported to the local law authorities and are subject to arrest and spending time in jail. The medical staff often refuses to help and will even harass women about their botched abortion. 600,000 maternal deaths occur each year. Seventy thousand (70,000) of those maternal deaths are from the complications of unsafe abortion which represents 12 to 13% percent of maternal deaths. Prior to 1966, Rumania allowed abortions to take place and as a result, maintained a very low maternal death rate. From 1966 to 1989 abortions were made illegal and the maternal mortality rate increased over 10 times compared to the remainder of Europe.

When performed by qualified Physicians and medical personnel appropriately trained about the medical and surgical abortion techniques, it is a relatively safe and necessary procedure. In the United States, for example, the death rate for abortion is currently 0.6 per 100 000 procedures, making it as safe or safer than receiving an injection of penicillin.

http://www.womenscenter.com/abortion_stats.html

Yes, because the law would let me take 100,000--insert eye roll here. You know its not that easy and that is something we can fight for a change.

Again, we are talking about BABIES. There are hardly 100,000 babies up for adoption. You make it sound like all of the children in foster care would have been aborted. They could have been and weren't for some reason. So one doesn't really have that much to do with the other.

FACTS ABOUT ABORTION IN THE UNITED STATES

Incidence of Abortion

Nearly half of all pregnancies among American women are unintended, and 4 in 10 of these are terminated by abortion. 22% of all pregnancies end in abortion.

40% of pregnancies among white women, 69% among blacks and 54% among Hispanics are unintended.

In 2005, 1.21 million abortions were performed, down from 1.31 million in 2000. More than 45 million legal abortions were performed from 1973 through 2005.

Each year, about 2% of women aged 15-44 have an abortion; 47% of them have had at least one previous abortion.

At least half of all American women will face an unintended pregnancy by age 45 and, at current rates; about one-third will have had an abortion.

Over 88% of abortions occur in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. Over half of all abortions in the U.S. occur within the first 8 weeks of pregnancy. 6.7% occur between 13 and 15 weeks, 3.5% occur between 16 and 20 weeks, and 1.1% of abortions occur at 21 weeks or greater.

Today, the number of abortions has declined from a peak of 29.3 per 1000 women aged 15-44 in 1979 to 19.4 per thousand. It has only slowly dropped over the last several years because poor women have not had access to Family Planning Facilities for education and prevention of pregnancy through effective birth control measures.

Who Has Abortions?

Fifty percent of U.S. women obtaining abortion are younger than 25: Women aged 20-24 obtain 33% of all abortions, and teenagers obtain 17%.

37% of abortions occur with black women, 34% with non-Hispanic white women, 22% to Hispanic women and 8% to women of other races.

Women who obtain abortion represent every religious affiliation. 43% of women obtaining abortion identify themselves as Protestant, and 27% as Catholic; and 13% of abortion patients describe themselves as born-again or Evangelical Christians.

Most women receiving abortion (83%) are unmarried. Women who have never married obtain two-thirds of all abortions. 16% are separated, divorced, or widowed. Married women are significantly less likely than unmarried women to resolve unintended pregnancies through abortion. About 60% of abortions are obtained by women who have one or more child.

The abortion rate among women living below the federal poverty level ($9,570.) is per women (below 100% of poverty) is nearly four times that of women above 200% of poverty (112 vs. 29 per 1000 women).

The decision to have an abortion is never simple. The reasons women provide for having an abortion underscores their understanding of the responsibilities of parenthood and family life. Three-fourths of women cite concerns for or responsibility to other individuals; three-fourths say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or the ability to care for dependents; and half say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner. Lack of money ranks very high. Many feel the responsible course of action is to wait until their situation is more suited to child rearing; 66% plan to have children when they are older and financially able to provide for a child and/or in a supportive relationship with a partner so their children can have two parents. Others wanted to get pregnant and developed serious medical problems, learned that the fetus had severe abnormalities, or experienced some other personal crisis. Each year, about 13,000 women have abortions because they became pregnant as a result of rape or incest.

Only 1% of women say they have been forced or pressured into having an abortion. There are some women who do not want to continue their pregnancy but are pressured to do so by family members, friends, or fear of social stigma. Pre-abortion counseling is designed to determine whether a woman is fully comfortable with her abortion decision, and if she is not, she is encouraged to wait until she has had a chance to consider her options more fully.

Most women do not later regret their decision to terminate their pregnancy. Relief is the most common emotional response following abortion, and psychological distress appears to be felt the greatest before, rather than after, an abortion.

There are undoubtedly some women who, in hindsight, wish that they had made a different choice and the majority would prefer never to have become pregnant when the circumstances were not right for them. When a wanted pregnancy is ended (for medical reasons) women may experience a sense of loss and grief. As with any major change or decision involving loss, a crisis later in life sometimes leads to a temporary resurfacing of sad feelings surrounding the abortion. Women at risk for post-abortion adjustment are those who do not get the support they need, or whose abortion decisions are actively opposed by people who are close to them.

Contraceptive Use

54% of women having abortions had used a contraceptive method (usually the condom or the pill) during the month they became pregnant. Among those women, 76% of pill users and 49% of condom users report having used their method inconsistently, while 13% of pill users and 14% of condom users report correct use. Some women used hgh supplements after the abortion for recovery. There is no contraceptive method that can prevent pregnancy 100% of the time.

46% percent of women who have abortion had not used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant. Of these women, 33% had perceived themselves to be at low risk for pregnancy, 32% had concerns about contraceptive methods, 26% had unexpected sex and 1% had been forced to have sex.

8% of women who have abortion have never used a method of birth control; non-use is greatest among those who are young, poor, black, Hispanic or less educated.

About half of unintended pregnancies occur among the 11% of women who are at risk for unintended pregnancy but are not using contraceptives. Most of these women have practiced contraception in the past.

Most women who have an abortion have not had one previously (52%) or only one previous abortion (26%). If women used abortion as their primary method of birth control, they would be getting pregnant 2 or 3 times a year. With nearly 30 years of possibly becoming pregnant abortion can’t be used as any woman’s primary source of birth control. There is also a very high likelihood of having one or two unintended pregnancies over a thirty year period of time.

Safety of Abortion

Risk associated with abortion is minimal. Less than 0.3% of abortion patients experience a complication that requires hospitalization.

Abortions performed in the first trimester pose virtually no long-term risk of problems such as infertility, ectopic pregnancy, spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) or birth defect, and little or no risk of preterm or low-birth-weight deliveries.

Following exhaustive reviews, the U.S. and British governments have concluded that there is no association between abortion and breast cancer. There is also no indication that abortion is a risk factor for other cancers.

The risk of death associated with abortion increases with the length of pregnancy, from one death for every one million abortions at or before eight weeks to one per 29,000 at 16-20 weeks, and one per 11,000 at 21 or more weeks. The latter numbers have decreased significantly over the past 10 years due to advancement in abortion surgical procedure techniques and the new medications used to terminate pregnancy.

58% of abortion patients say they would have liked to have had their abortion earlier. Nearly 60% of women who experienced a delay in obtaining an abortion cite the reasons were the time it took to make arrangements and raise money.

Unfortunately, teens are more likely than older women to delay having an abortion until 15 weeks of pregnancy, when the medical risks associated with abortion are significantly higher.

 

[kaytieeldr]

The average time for a child to be in foster care is 3 years.

You must be aware that this statistic does not necessarily indicate "from birth". The older the child gets, the less likely they are to be adopted.

I am confused, why in the world should a man feel discriminated for using a pink hammer.

Because he didn't get to choose which hammer to use?

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

If 20 couples are applying to adopt each baby, how many babies are ending up staying in foster care? The average time for a child to be in foster care is 3 years. So that growing up in foster care isn't the norm. Many children are in foster care because of something their parents have done. Look at those 400,000 and tell me, how many should have died? How many of them would they mother have made that choice? Being a drug addict when your child is 7 doesn't mean you didn't want and love the baby when it was born. Foster care and abortion are not hand in hand necessarily.

We have several clinics that give away birth control. None of them have anyone outside protesting. No one outside the Planned Parenthood clinic either. So that isn't the case everywhere.

Same with your version of sex ed. Not like that everywhere.

luvsJack, I think that you might be one of those people who believe that if things don't happen in your little world, that they don't happen anywhere.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...nfronts-protesters-planned-parenthood/589174/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-abortion-clinics-face-surge-of-trespassing-and-blockades/

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...7276A6887122B082ED417276A6887122B08&FORM=VIRE

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...240217DE480C40120E2D240217DE480C&&FORM=VDRVRV

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...98C81DBD56A7EBBD46CF98C81DBD56A7&&FORM=VDRVRV


I was one of those women who had to march past the protestors on my way into PP, at 16, to get birth control.

I was one of those women who had to march past the protestors on my way into PP, at the age of 21, to have an abortion.

I was one of those women who had to march past the protestors on my way into PP, from the age of 30 to 35 (ish) to escort frightened and angry young women into the clinics for whatever reason they were there.

I don't have the right to tell you to cut your hair, lose 20 pounds, get botox, use an IUD instead of the rhythm method, have your extra 11th toe removed, or any thing else. You don't have the right to tell me what to do with my body. Until you are living in my skin, you have zero business telling me what to do.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I favor a woman's right to a safe and legal abortion, though it's not something I take lightly.

I don't think these types of overly-restrictive laws we're seeing now are going to prevent abortions; we're just going to see more women suffer and die from rogue treatments and procedures, and health professionals penalized, etc. It shouldn't be that way in this era of modern healthcare.

Even in some cases of genital mutilation they do it legally in western hospitals because they know it's going to be done anyway and they prefer it's done in a clean facility, by a licensed surgeon rather than out in the bush by a tribeswoman using dirty razors, thorns and reeds. (Ugh.) (And not arguing in favor of this, just saying that this is done in some places - not the U.S.)

I think at some point we do have to think realistically about these types of things even though there are many legal, moral and ethical considerations to be taken into account. Just my $.02 as a health professional.