"Dress Coded"

[Kae]

At DD's HS they kinda look at the kids as they come into the school and pull them aside if they are questioning the length of a skirt or shorts. they being said DD is one of those long-legged girls so last year she got pulled aside quite a bit. One time it was the length of a skirt with leggings under. I had to take her clothes and I had checked the last time she had wore that skirt it was fine. When I got there I had her put her arm down and it was fine so I looked at the Asst Principal and she said well it's almost too short (hence the leggings). then A girl walked by into super tight leggings and an almost crop top. The Principal walked in with a couple of administers I looked at all of them and said Frank, Bob next time I will be bringing my lawyer and other Mothers, Told DD to go to class.

Back to Original Post-lol. To do that to the girls in front of the class is totally wrong. I would talk to the Head of the Music Dept if this person is the Head then go to the Admin Building. Also tell them you want this handled in X amount of days. then go Social Facebook, letter to TV or newspaper.

Kae

 

[tzolkin]

I didn't say the rule was stupid. I said enforcement like this is stupid, i.e. lining girls up and checking for a few millimeters of fingertips beneath the hem
It is stupid. If you can generally see that they are close to okay, and it is not flagrant, there is no need for this. It's just a power trip

The enforcement has also been an issue for us. Our high school dress code is deliberately vague (shorts are to be "mid-thigh" rather than "fingertip length"), so anyone who "might" be in violation is sent to a specific person in the office who will then determine at her sole discretion whether or not the article of clothing is appropriate. My older daughter missed several entire periods of her AP classes sitting in the office waiting to be "examined". It was a ridiculous waste of her educational time, there was absolutely no consistency, and no teacher ever had an issue with her clothing (every time she was singled out by a particular administrator).

Her clothing was always what I would consider modest so I really could not understand the issue. The one pair of shorts she had were like bermuda shorts that measured 13-14" from her hip (she has very short legs so they were pretty close to her knee, definitely beyond "mid-thigh").

My husband and I had to go to the school and have a discussion with the principal. While in the office there were countless girls that no one even batted an eye at with shorts much shorter than anything my daughter owned. Turns out through our conversation that the person who kept sending her to the office likely had an issue with the fact that my daughter did not shave her legs rather than the actual length of her clothing and was really just trying to shame or embarrass her into keeping them covered.

ETA: Just went a looked it up since I just remembered it was vague... They have no actual rules in the handbook (so how can they expect kids and parents to know what is allowed?), but it does state:
"The board believes that the dress and personal appearance of students are private matters; however, when these matters affect student health, safety and freedom to learn without being disrupted, then they become matters for the board to regulate.
Students are prohibited from projecting an appearance or wearing clothing that is substantially disruptive, provocative, lewd or obscene or that endangers the health or safety of the student or others."

 

[luvsJack]

So schools shouldn't have dress codes? Does your employer have a dress code?

We have the no sagging, short-shorts/skirts, spaghetti straps, inappropriate or violent messages on shirts rules. First hour teachers do a check but often kids will have a hoodie on over their spaghetti straps or other inappropriate shirt. Later in the day the students removes the hoodie and then gets "dress coded". Male teachers will ask the female teachers to talk to female students who are not in dress code for obvious reasons. So that makes me the "mean" teacher in my area of the school because I'm the only female teacher around. We talk to just as many boys as girls. There were some boys "dress coded" for the Nuggets basketball tanks because the arm holes were ridiculously low.

My favorite is when we call a parent about their child's attire for the day and the parent gets mad. However, when the parent shows up with a different outfit for their child, they yell, "That is not what I sent you to school wearing. Where did you get that outfit?" My niece was famous for stashing clothes she wasn't allowed to have and then changing before she went to school.

We are lenient about the dress code and will only dress code those who are blatantly out of code.

There is a wide, wide range between not having a dress code and lining the girls up to test their shorts. Or doing "sock checks". Its the enforcement of the codes that can border the ridiculous.

When dd was in middle school, it wasn't the principal or all the teachers it was just certain ones. and even some of the other teachers would roll their eyes at the "enforcement" of the rules. If a girl's shorts are actually too short, they should have been able to tell by just looking. But they actually found it necessary to do the finger tip test. Her bff got "coded" because she made the horrible mistake of wearing the shorts she bought in the fall at the beginning of the warmer weather in the spring and she had grown about an inch. The shorts were a grand total of about a half inch too short. Talk about one mad momma! Her mother was furious that she got called from work (she is a self employed painter so its a big deal to leave the job site) over a half inch of material. We were lucky. DD has been the same height since about 5th grade so her's never got too short.

What I found really odd about the dress codes and the enforcement was that a year later when they transferred to the high school, it became so much less of a problem. I mean they still had uniforms and shorts still technically had to be finger tip length but no one was measuring anything. If they looked way too short, then they said something. DD told one of her high school teachers about the sock check and the teacher couldn't stop laughing. "Why would I care what color your socks are and who has time to check them?"

I don't really think the dress codes are entirely sexist. I do know that before our school's went to uniforms, it was the girls that pushed the envelope much more often than the boys. give the boys a t-shirt and jeans or long basketball shorts and most were happy. Girls tend to change up their fashion a little more and in doing so, sometimes their choices can be questionable.

 

[jaybirdsmommy]

See, in my opinion dress codes should only exist as a way to deal with those extreme situations where a kid comes to school wearing something completely and totally inappropriate. i.e. certain body parts hanging out in plain sight, clothing that prohibits movements, safety concerns, etc. Beyond that, as long as the kid is comfortable, the other kids need to learn how to deal with "distractions."

My thinking is that my son will be in college in two years. No one is measuring inseams or banning tank tops on our local campus. He'd better learn to cope with it now.

 

[jaybirdsmommy]

I don't really think the dress codes are entirely sexist. I do know that before our school's went to uniforms, it was the girls that pushed the envelope much more often than the boys. give the boys a t-shirt and jeans or long basketball shorts and most were happy. Girls tend to change up their fashion a little more and in doing so, sometimes their choices can be questionable.

I know this is a loaded statement and I'll get tons of grief for it but I really don't see why more schools don't go the uniform route. It doesn't have to be complicated - khaki bottoms and a specific color polo shirt would be fine. Give the kids a choice of a couple of different styles/lengths and be done with it. It would be so much easier to enforce and there would be less question of "appropriateness."

 

[amberpi]

One of the very reasons I HATED the middle school years for my kids. I don't know what it is but for those years, it seemed like the controlling of the rules was so over the top. DD went through this very thing. And had a different teacher that would make them all raise their pants at the ankles to do a "sock check" and make sure their socks were appropriate colors. I asked that teacher "if you can't see their socks so they have to raise them for you to look, what possible difference does it really make?" She just blinked at me.

What in the ever living hell? We would have been at the central office in a skinny minute if it was a public school. I hate these dress codes that seem to shame women at a disproportionate rate.

 

[amberpi]

I really hate dress codes. They are so one-sided and antiquated.

No one examines the boys in the way they do the girls. It can be humiliating for them (as I know from experience).

If boys can’t concentrate because my daughter’s shoulders are showing, or her shorts are three inches above her knee, that is their issue, not hers.

This!

 

[amberpi]

Having a male teacher stop every girl in shorts at the door and look at their legs while checking the length of their shorts does come off a little creepy to me.

Oh, yuck, that behavior is so much worse than whatever the kids are wearing. Sorry your poor daughter has to put up with such a creeper. Honestly, please report him. This sounds like such unhealthy behavior towards kids, especially in those weird, awkward years.

 

[Hikergirl]

I didn't say the rule was stupid. I said enforcement like this is stupid, i.e. lining girls up and checking for a few millimeters of fingertips beneath the hem
It is stupid. If you can generally see that they are close to okay, and it is not flagrant, there is no need for this. It's just a power trip

I don't disagree, but if there is a requirement of X amount of length- how does one make sure it's being followed?
I mean they could go by just glancing, but then what if they are wrong and a girl gets coded because it just looks too short but isn't?

 

[Minnesota!]

I don't have any issues with dress codes in schools. There are dress codes in the real world. Follow them and you won't have to worry about being 'coded'

My company recently switched to "jeans any day"... which, now means people are wearing sweatpants and flip flops just to push it. I would LOVE to see that get 'coded'.

 

[jaybirdsmommy]

I don't disagree, but if there is a requirement of X amount of length- how does one make sure it's being followed?
I mean they could go by just glancing, but then what if they are wrong and a girl gets coded because it just looks too short but isn't?

It shouldn't be an issue. If they can't tell by looking that the shorts are too short (ie mm from the required length) then they are fine and no one should do anything about it.

 

[jaybirdsmommy]

I don't have any issues with dress codes in schools. There are dress codes in the real world. Follow them and you won't have to worry about being 'coded'

My company recently switched to "jeans any day"... which, now means people are wearing sweatpants and flip flops just to push it. I would LOVE to see that get 'coded'.

I don't think anyone here has an issue with schools having dress codes. The issue is the arbitrary enforcement of them making a child feel so uncomfortable that she won't wear shorts to school, even knowing they are the right length. No teacher should be lining the girls up and making them prove their shorts are the right length as they enter class.

I would certainly hope that the people who are violating your work dress code in that manner have been written up. That's a separate issue, not the same as what's being discussed here.

 

[Minnesota!]

I don't think anyone here has an issue with schools having dress codes. The issue is the arbitrary enforcement of them making a child feel so uncomfortable that she won't wear shorts to school, even knowing they are the right length. No teacher should be lining the girls up and making them prove their shorts are the right length as they enter class.

I would certainly hope that the people who are violating your work dress code in that manner have been written up. That's a separate issue, not the same as what's being discussed here.

I don't have an issue with the teacher lining them up, either. I was one of those girls. 13 years of Catholic school...you learned to roll/unroll your skirt real quick. It's a school rule...the kid needs to follow it. If they are following it, there should be no embarrassment. I would tell my kid to suck it up, honestly.

Maybe if kids learn in grade school what is appropriate, it won't turn into flip flops and sweats in the workforce.

 

[jaybirdsmommy]

I don't have an issue with the teacher lining them up, either. I was one of those girls. 13 years of Catholic school...you learned to roll/unroll your skirt real quick. It's a school rule...the kid needs to follow it. If they are following it, there should be no embarrassment. I would tell my kid to suck it up, honestly.

Maybe if kids learn in grade school what is appropriate, it won't turn into flip flops and sweats in the workforce.

Then let's agree to disagree. I think a teacher lining up the girls and looking at their legs is creepy.

 

[Hikergirl]

I'm saying that only the girls are being checked - and each and every one in shorts, even those who are wearing shorts down to their knees. All this while the boys are allowed to walk into class without being checked.

(before anyone calls me out on it, DD did say she wasn't sure if any boys were checked so i am making an assumption here)

I get that the girls are being checked but is it because the boys are boys, or is it because their shorts length wasn't questionable?
Were any of the girls wearing Bermuda type longer shorts and still made to get up in front of the class?
I think what often appears black and white to a teen, is not always. I say that as a mom of 3 so I have experience how they tend to see things in their way and not the way it really is.

Having said that, if your dd has come to you because the behavior of the teacher makes her uncomfortable then there is nothing wrong with questioning it and reaching out to the teacher about it.

 

[Hikergirl]

It shouldn't be an issue. If they can't tell by looking that the shorts are too short (ie mm from the required length) then they are fine and no one should do anything about it.

I definitely don't disagree however there IS a rule in place, so there is nothing wrong with enforcing it. There may be a better way to do it, but if you are in the school then at any time a staff member has the right to make sure you are following the rules they set.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Well then I would agree that the bolded is sexist.
I have 2 ds's, their shorts, even the shorter styles they have are still longer than their fingertips and it is easily noticeable, which is why I would assume they don't draw attention like the shorts that are "iffy" on girls.
And yes I have a dd, and when she was younger it was not all that easy to find in between lengths, they were either short (not booty but short) or Bermuda. They were always "iffy" because she didn't want the long ones. I'm sure at times we pushed the limit on what was allowed.
I've been through the whole tween/teen "it's not fair" but in reality it is, as long as the rules are applied to both genders.
And I am not saying that there are schools where they don't, I'm just saying you (general you) can't put a blanket statement about dress codes in general being sexist against women.

I agree about dress codes, as a whole, not being sexist. I don’t think the ones implemented (when they are) in schools are sexist for the most part.

 

[jaybirdsmommy]

I definitely don't disagree however there IS a rule in place, so there is nothing wrong with enforcing it. There may be a better way to do it, but if you are in the school then at any time a staff member has the right to make sure you are following the rules they set.

Agreed, but if the shorts are so close to being in code that someone can't tell by a quick glance then they are most likely fine. A few mm difference in length is not worth calling a child up in front of the class or sending her home to change. Dress codes should be in place to take care of extremes - like the kid that shows up with his pants hanging around his knees or a girl whose skirt doesn't cover her underwear.

 

[Minnesota!]

I would say line up the boys, too, if the boys are coming into school wearing short shorts (which, thankfully, has not become a trend 'round here, yet). I have two boys and I would tell them the same - if school says no, either don't wear them or line up. But, hairy man thighs in short shorts It was ugly in the 70s/80s, ugly now.

I see nothing creepy about it - if the rule was no short sleeve shirts that show your elbows, and forearms/elbows were being looked at, , I am not sure there would such an uproar. But, people get weird about legs being looked at..

But, again, 13 years of Catholic school, 25 years of corporate life, and 9 years, so far, of my kids in uniforms. Used to being under the microscope of "appropriate clothing"...

 

[design_mom]

I don't think it's so much that it's "sexist" because the rules (thigh-length shorts, spaghetti straps) aren't enforced equally across genders, but "fashionable clothes that are suitable in public" for one gender can be accommodated within the dress code while it's not as easy for the others. It's practically impossible to find shorts for my daughter to wear that meet the fingertip test unless you go to "pedal pushers" or "culottes" like her grandmother would buy. Even 5"-7" inseam, which are not short-shorts, don't meet the dress code. So you basically have to buy a whole set of clothes that are pretty much ONLY worn to school. Or, like my daughter and the OPs daughter, don't wear shorts to school at all.

Of course, I went to Catholic school and they would make us kneel on the floor so they could measure our skirts. They couldn't be more than 2" above the floor while kneeling. They had a ruler. I found that frustrating because the girls had a uniform (ugly jumper emblazoned with the school crest on the lapel) while the boys only had a dress code (black pants with belt and white button-down collar shirt... any brand, any fabric, pretty much any style as long as they were the right color.)