DVC Rental Cancellation/Insurance - Need Help!

[crisi]

Does anyone recall the "hard luck scandal" - it was back a decade ago or longer - I'm sure one of the old timers remember, and its just vague in my head. Back when DVC rules were looser, and rent/trade board rules were looser, there was someone acquiring points (or maybe reservations?) at discounted prices by telling hard luck stories (it will be my mother's last trip before she dies of cancer sort of stories) and then rerenting them at a profit....or maybe I dreamed it, it was a LONG time ago.

 

[Madame]

Man, you guys are so cold......does the insurance cover things like pregnancy, sickness, change of plans, divorce, weather.

Again, I am NOT suggesting to open up pandora box, but when people spend several thousand of dollars on a trip 7-11 months in advance, plans can change and there should be some ability to HELP out other than "sorry, you should have known better"



Wow...pretty cold. Would you feel the same if your family member "chose" a bad doctor or got food poisoning by making a bad choice eating from a food truck, or had their cell phoen stolen because they made a bad choice to hide it in a beach bag and go for a swim.

I really don't have a dog in this fight as I don't use a broker, but I am simply seeking a happy medium without being so polarized to not accommodate and charge for a change. In reality a change would happen probably less than 5% of all rentals.

I don’t see it as cold, just realistic. It’s not as if we’re talking about medical care, housing or some other necessity. It’s deluxe Disney vacation accommodations that they’re getting at a decent rate.

People need to be responsible for their own risk. As an example, the USD/CAD exchange rate is horrendous right now. We have USD funds that were bought when the rate was better. I just booked our flights to MCO for next March & wow were they expensive.

I could have used our USD credit card & paid it off with our USD and avoided the current painful exchange rate. I didn’t though. I used our CAD credit card and will suffer the rate, because that card covers us in case of illness, weather, cancellation due to a death in the family & medical coverage while in the US.

I do not have sympathy for people who spend thousands on a vacation & pass up the available insurance to save money, or for people who cruise without a passport or a thousand other things. I save my sympathy for those who got the short straw in an unavoidable situation.

Also, this would be a very slippery slope and would not end well for owners. There are non-negotiable rules for a reason. If David’s started allowing changes *everyone* would expect to be able to make changes. It’d be all over the Internet in 1/2 an hour.

 

[Dean]

Man, you guys are so cold......does the insurance cover things like pregnancy, sickness, change of plans, divorce, weather.

Again, I am NOT suggesting to open up pandora box, but when people spend several thousand of dollars on a trip 7-11 months in advance, plans can change and there should be some ability to HELP out other than "sorry, you should have known better"

Insurance will cover some of those things but not all of them. Reserving directly on cash will give more options, that's the price of the savings involved. IMO you are suggesting to open a pandora's box by going against their contract and agreement. The problem with going based on emotion is that everyone has a story, it's often not true or embellished, it's all subjective and as soon as word gets out you don't follow the rules, everyone will want the same flexibility and be upset if they don't get i. IF they want to start allowing certain changes, they simply charge more up front or build in costs/penalties that reward the broker and owner for the risk and aggravation. If saying stick to the rules is cold, them I'm ice.

 

[cmwade77]

Honestly, I think the nice thing would be for David to ask the owner if there is anything they are willing to do under the circumstances and if not, then he simply enforces the terms of the contract. Of course the OP could be covered by their own credit card company's travel insurance if they paid entirely with a card that offers such protection and then all would probably work out for everyone, well except the credit card company who has to pay out that is.

 

[Madame]

Honestly, I think the nice thing would be for David to ask the owner if there is anything they are willing to do under the circumstances and if not, then he simply enforces the terms of the contract. Of course the OP could be covered by their own credit card company's travel insurance if they paid entirely with a card that offers such protection and then all would probably work out for everyone, well except the credit card company who has to pay out that is.

It would be nice, but not a smart business decision. That renter would tell someone, even if it’s in the context of “wow David’s has excellent customer service. They really helped me out of a bind.”

This would result in 2 things - other renters hounding David’s for the same “excellent” customer service, & owners who would start asking themselves why they aren’t renting out their own points to maximize their profit if they are going to potentially have to deal with renters’ “emergencies.”

Rental companies are not Disney. They don’t and shouldn’t provide pixie dust.

 

[Marionnette]

Honestly, I think the nice thing would be for David to ask the owner if there is anything they are willing to do under the circumstances and if not, then he simply enforces the terms of the contract. Of course the OP could be covered by their own credit card company's travel insurance if they paid entirely with a card that offers such protection and then all would probably work out for everyone, well except the credit card company who has to pay out that is.

But, back to @Dean 's point...if word gets out that they make exceptions and will contact owners to make changes, it opens the floodgates for any renter who has {{buyer's remorse, a scheduling conflict, better flight times if they shift their reservation by a night or two}}, Do owners that rent thru these agencies want to deal with this? I'm thinking no. And if owners don't want to deal with it, then they'll offer their points elsewhere.

 

[cmwade77]

Wow, you guys really are heartless.....remind me never to rent from you or David's

 

[DVC Doctor]

Wow, you guys really are heartless.....remind me never to rent from you or David's

Finally a voice of reason.

Seriously, I have never rented points from David or used his service to rent my points, I am SIMPLY suggesting that there should be a "potential" option for people that need to cancel and in this single case, we are at least 6 or so months away and it should be easy to re-rent these points. Again, I never said to do it for FREE and I did predict that well over 95% of the rentals, this will not be an issue.

Traveler insurance really does not cover everything such as this case where it involves a pregnancy, or what about a break-up or death in the family. there are probably dozens of things that will not be covered.

I am only of the OPINION that brokers such as David should offer a service for people that spend $ Thousands or dollars and find that their situation changes to assist them (for a fee) to resell their points or reservation and get some money back - if brokers want to be rigid, inflexible, heartless, and refuse to allow changes, then well that is fine too, but they should display a pretty strong warning when they rent points that this is their policy. As far as owners with the same attitude, well, I hope you never get caught in a situation where you demand some measure of flexibility (gee officer, I was only going 56mph in a 55mph zone so I really was not breaking the law, so I should not get a ticket).

I can only state that when I rent my points to people, I am GLAD to make a change as long as we stay budget neutral, or the change results in additional points that need to be rented. In reality, this is customer service and it happens less than 5% of the time and probably only 1 or 2% of the time is probably more like it.

 

[Dean]

Wow, you guys really are heartless.....remind me never to rent from you or David's

As I said, they can change their rules if they want. Plus I also said, this is one of the reasons it can be good to rent privately. But if anyone expects something other than what's agreed upon, regardless of the situation, I wouldn't want to rent to them.

 

[Marionnette]

Wow, you guys really are heartless.....remind me never to rent from you or David's

Yeah. You're better off renting from DVC Doctor if you want lenient rental terms. David's is not for you if you think it's heartless and cold to expect people to adhere to the terms to which they agreed when they signed a rental contract.

 

[cmwade77]

There are always exceptions to every rule and there should be, not to do so is indeed heartless, especially if the change doesn't cost you anything more than a couple of minutes to log on and change names and possibly dates a little bit.

Really, this has taught me that I don't want to use David's to rent points out or to rent from them, as I understand situations like this can come up.

 

[SteveMouse]

Traveler’s insurance, depending on the policy purchased, is specifically intended to cover cancellation or interruption due to medical conditions or death. Most major insurers also offer policies that include options for job issues or “cancel for any reason.”

 

[DVC Doctor]

Yeah. You're better off renting from DVC Doctor if you want lenient rental terms. David's is not for you if you think it's heartless and cold to expect people to adhere to the terms to which they agreed when they signed a rental contract.

Thanks for the vote of confidence and it really was not my intent to create any issues with Davids (he offers a great service) but I am NOT lenient, I am just a rational businessman who will try to offer excellent customer service and assist anyone that has a reasonable reservation modification or change that rents points from me. I do this for free as I feel it is the right thing to do, really costs me nothing other than a phone call or two, and sometimes results in the renter needing additional points to rent. At worse, the renter may lose a few points and be SUPER HAPPY that I accommodated their changes. I posted that David (or brokers) should charge a fee to cover their costs to make these changes and not do it for free, rather than be so HARD-LINED to let the points go to waste.

Additionally, from my experience it is rare for a cancellation or major change that it really is not an issue for most renters. However, in this tread, a young couple spent a ton of money renting points and found out they are pregnant and will be expecting to deliver during their planned Disney trip.

There is a TON of time to cancel and rebook or resell these points to someone else - that is the RIGHT thing to do (contract or not).

Traveler’s insurance, depending on the policy purchased, is specifically intended to cover cancellation or interruption due to medical conditions or death. Most major insurers also offer policies that include options for job issues or “cancel for any reason.”

Agreed and in this case I am not sure elective pregnancy would be covered. But who cares, what if they broke up, or simply had alternative things to do like a family event or work event that was not planned 11 or 7 months in advance. There should be some way to recoup a total loss from an inflexible point rental. Of course, nothing is guaranteed such as someone cancelling 30-60 days out, as those points may be hard or impossible to rent before they expire.

Heck, at least offer then for free so they don't go to waste and let the person getting them for free donate a reasonable thank you fee to the person that gave up the the points.

 

[Dean]

There are always exceptions to every rule and there should be, not to do so is indeed heartless, especially if the change doesn't cost you anything more than a couple of minutes to log on and change names and possibly dates a little bit.

Really, this has taught me that I don't want to use David's to rent points out or to rent from them, as I understand situations like this can come up.

I probably wouldn't use them either for either direction because I understand the situation and I'm comfortable dealing with the renters directly. We'll have to disagree in principle, there can be exceptions to some rules but there doesn't have to be and some rules should not have an exception. An exception specifically outside the rules is generally not reasonable. Specific to this question, when I rent I expect 25% up front and the remainder at 120 days out all non refundable. If I make an exception, it has to be a win win. That might mean to reschedule within the specifics of the points used or to sub rent it if otherwise not possible. I would consider a possible partial refund if after the 4 months if I had time to use or rent again with more total money in my pocket for my additional risk and aggravation, I would not consider any refund of the deposit. The ultimate reason would not matter which was my point above, when you start making judgements about this person's reason is deserving and another isn't, it's all subjective & variable with ultimate chaos.

 

[DVC Doctor]

The irony is this tread was started in early March and mentioned an October reservation and the OP has not been back since. Thus, he solved his problem or simply walked away from his loss (that seems hard to believe). That was 7 month notice of a change and that would be plenty of time to cancel and re-rent the points to someone else (and pay a service fee for this effort). But a contract is a contract and he should have "known better"

However, I also find it ironic that David's advertises a "Rated 100% in Guest Satisfaction" and also states "Due to the complexity of the point system and the fact that Owners may have to bank or borrow points in order to secure your reservation, cancellations, upgrades and date modifications are not permitted."

I know David must do over 1,000 rentals per year and if even only a few people lose all their money due to a change of plans and are stuck with the no modification policy, I would find them less than 100% satisfied, thus he probably should change that graphic to "almost 100% in guest sanctification"

Also, I just noticed that Davids has an ad for dedicated reservations for rent and currently lists about 10 interesting rentals including one in October for AKV. How hard would it be to list the rental on this section.

The insurance company offered is Travel Guard and there are many options to choose, but there are LOTS of options to choose (are you 100% sure what one to pick?)

100% Trip Cost | Trip Cancellation: Reimburses forfeited, non-refundable, unused payments or deposits up to the Maximum Limit shown on the Schedule of Benefits for Trips that are canceled prior to the scheduled departure date.

150% Trip Cost | Trip Interruption: Reimburses forfeited, non-refundable, unused payments or deposits up to the Maximum Limit shown on the Schedule of Benefits for Trips that are interrupted after the scheduled departure date.

$750 | Trip Interruption - Return Air Only: Reimburses the additional airline transportation expenses incurred by you to reach the return destination for trip interruptions.

$750 | Trip Delay: Reimburses up to $150 per day/per person up to the Maximum Limit shown on the Schedule of Benefits for reasonable additional expenses if the insured is delayed for more than 5 consecutive hours due to a covered reason.

$250 | Missed Connection: Reimburses up to the Maximum Benefit shown on the Schedule of Benefits if Inclement Weather or Common Carrier causes cancellation or a delay of regularly scheduled airline flights for 3 or more hours to your point of departure.

$1,000 | Baggage & Personal Effects: Can reimburse you if your baggage or personal effects are lost, stolen or damaged while on your Trip, subject to the Maximum Benefit. This coverage is in excess of any other coverage or indemnity.

$300 | Baggage Delay: If your Baggage is delayed more than 12 hours, you can be reimbursed for the purchase of Necessary Personal Effects, subject to the Maximum Benefit.

$25,000 | Accident Sickness Medical Expense*: Pays up to the Maximum Benefit shown on the Schedule of Benefits for necessary medical expenses due to Injury or Sickness incurred while on a Trip. Initial treatment must be received during Trip. Pays for emergency dental expenses during the trip due to injury to sound, natural teeth while on the trip. Covers medical and surgical treatment by a licensed physician; professional nursing, hospital, x-ray and ambulance services during your Trip provided initial treatment was received during the trip.

$500,000 | Emergency Evacuation and Repatriation of Remains*: Covers evacuation and transportation as directed by a Physician to the nearest adequate medical facility (home in the event of death or if medically required). Pays for special medical escort if recommended in writing by the attending Physician.

$10,000 | Accidental Death & Dismemberment: Pays for loss of life or limb if it occurs within 365 days of an accident during your Trip.

Extra Coverages:

(when coverage is purchased within 15 days of Initial Trip payment)

Pre-Existing Medical Condition Exclusion Waiver (Limitations apply)

Trip Cancellation and Interruption coverage due to Financial Default of an airline, cruise line, or tour operator. (Financial default is not covered for all suppliers. Please visit www.travelguard.com/customerservice/alertlist/ for details.)

$250 additional Missed Connection

$50,000 in Flight Guard® coverage

Accident Sickness Medical Expense (Primary)

Optional Coverage:

The following will be included if elected and appropriate costs have been paid.

Medical Expense & Emergency Evacuation Upgrade: Valuable addition to increase your coverage limits. Your Medical Expense and Emergency Evacuation Benefits will double. Emergency Evacuation to the adequate licensed medical facility of the Insured’s choice and Bedside Visit is included. (Upgrade not available to VA residents).

Car Rental Collision Coverage: $35,000 in primary coverage, subject to a $250 deductible. Covers physical damage to a rental car for which the car rental contract would hold you responsible. (Coverage is not available to residents of Kansas or Texas.)

Cancel for Any Reason: The Company will reimburse 50% of nonrefundable expenses if you cancel your Trip for any reason, up to 48 hours prior to your departure. (Cancel for any Reason can only be purchased at the time the base plan is purchased and within 15 days of initial trip payment. Coverage must be purchased for the full cost of trip.)

Flight Guard®: Coverage for accidental death or dismemberment that occurs when traveling on a regularly scheduled flight or charter, subject to the Maximum shown in the Schedule. Amount selected from the minimum of $100,000 up to a maximum of $500,000

 

[Dean]

And the OP had the opportunity and had declined any trip insurance I believe. Generally I'm not a believer in travel insurance and likely wouldn't have gotten it either but that would have been the risk I was assuming.

 

[jarestel]

The reason people want to rent DVC points is the ability to save some money on their Disney accommodations. Renting comes with some risks, but people are more than willing to assume the risks in order to get discounted WDW hotel stays. Until they actually HAVE to assume those risks, it seems. Being heartless has nothing to do with the issue at hand, but for someone to expect the benefits of lower cost while still enjoying the perks of risk mitigation in case "something" comes up, is unreasonable, IMO.

 

[Marionnette]

There is a TON of time to cancel and rebook or resell these points to someone else - that is the RIGHT thing to do (contract or not).

You have said this a number of times and I have to disagree.

Real-life experience here:
I bought a contract last year. Loaded, with a Dec. UY. 2016 points banked into 2017. I didn't need the points so I rented them out. BWV standard view studio in October. I used David's specifically because of the no change/no refunds policy. If the renter had an issue in March, as the OP did, just how do you think I would be able to re-book a trip for a new renter? Have you seen the RAT inside of 7 months for Fall Frenzy? There are no studios anywhere for more than a night or two. Forget BWV and forget the home resort premium for it. The alternative would be to try to rent it out as a confirmed reservation, which you can only do on the disboards 30 days prior to the arrival date.

So, no, not plenty of time to re-book for someone else. And I should not be on the hook, losing the value of those points, because a renter wants a way out of a contract with strict terms.

Like you, if I were renting directly to someone, I would be more understanding. But there are reasons for choosing an agent that does not permit changes or refunds.

 

[Sandisw]

Man, you guys are so cold......does the insurance cover things like pregnancy, sickness, change of plans, divorce, weather.

Again, I am NOT suggesting to open up pandora box, but when people spend several thousand of dollars on a trip 7-11 months in advance, plans can change and there should be some ability to HELP out other than "sorry, you should have known better"


Wow...pretty cold. Would you feel the same if your family member "chose" a bad doctor or got food poisoning by making a bad choice eating from a food truck, or had their cell phoen stolen because they made a bad choice to hide it in a beach bag and go for a swim.

I really don't have a dog in this fight as I don't use a broker, but I am simply seeking a happy medium without being so polarized to not accommodate and charge for a change. In reality a change would happen probably less than 5% of all rentals.

Not sure it would...people who rent through David's are well aware of the no change rule. Once it becomes "flexible", then more and more will want to ask for exceptions. One of the benefits of DVC rentals is the savings...the drawback, especially if you book through David's, is that the cancellation and refund policy is strict. Yes, people don't know in advance that something is going to happen, but one should always think it could and decide, when getting into a contract like this, how one would feel if it did. The renter should be okay with losing the money for the reservation if they decide to get into a contract like this and do not to get travel insurance. If they are not comfortable with this, then a DVC rental may not be a good option. It was one of the reasons we never, before becoming DVC members, we did rentals. I didn't like the lack of control and the no cancellation. Too risky.

 

[chicagodisneyguy]

I would have to guess that a majority of the people who find themselves in a situation where they need to cancel due to an unforeseen circumstance do so within the 7 month mark. I would think the incremental income that David would get finding a new renter wouldn't be worth the hassle of trying to find a reservation at the under 7 month mark. There's 30 threads about how much tougher it is to find availability at 7 months. I think it's probably a lot more work for David's team than the renters who have their request ready a year out in preparation of the 11-month window.

This is a perfect example of when travel insurance should be purchased. Anytime you take a vacation where you are purchasing a large amount of NON-REFUNDABLE travel purchases people should at least think about it or make sure they use a credit card with built in protection. There are policies that cover just about anything you can think of....pregnancy included.

I feel bad for the OP but hopefully this gives others a warning to examine if renting is right for them and to make sure they are fully protected if they do.