Genie Plus, a must for busy days.

[bryanb]

Someone asked why they didn’t just keep FP+ and charge for it, rather than create something completely new.

Under the old FP+ system, there was a fixed “inventory” of FP+ reservations at specific times. So if someone had a 7:30pm Flight of Passage reservation, and cancelled it at 7:15pm, theoretically someone else could grab it from outside a 90 minute queue and march right on in a few minutes later.

This made it possible for pros (like many of us on this board) to employ strategies like the Refresh method and game the system. This worked because thousands of guests were changing plans and putting FP+ spots inventory back into the system.

Setting aside the $15 cost for a moment, the Genie+ system is technically more “fair” to the average person and harder to game, because LL reservations are allocated on a next available time basis, and you can’t just grab someone’s cancelled reservations. It is essentially more like old FP was like, or more accurately, MaxPass at Disneyland. Except MaxPass never was going to work as well at WDW as it was at DL.

Magic Kingdom, for example, has much higher attendance on average than Disneyland, but has fewer attractions to serve all of the people. So if you’ll run out of LL return times quite quickly and leave people waiting in standby for longer too.

 

[qman6975]

I’ll be clear, I don‘t like the system at all, but sadly it’s necessary. Rather than increase capacity (a fifth park), Disney has created ways to make more money off of each guest. For us, it means taking an honest look at how much more a Disney trip is and looking at other options. So instead of going to Disney every two years, it’s probably going to be every three or four years.

 

[Sue M]

'

I’ll be clear, I don‘t like the system at all, but sadly it’s necessary. Rather than increase capacity (a fifth park), Disney has created ways to make more money off of each guest. For us, it means taking an honest look at how much more a Disney trip is and looking at other options. So instead of going to Disney every two years, it’s probably going to be every three or four years.

We used to go to wdw 2x a year and were AP holders. Then decreased to once a year, now not yearly at all.
The business model of charging more, giving less started awhile ago but has really ramped up recently.
I’ve voted with my $

 

[dmunsil]

Setting aside the $15 cost for a moment, the Genie+ system is technically more “fair” to the average person and harder to game, because LL reservations are allocated on a next available time basis, and you can’t just grab someone’s cancelled reservations. It is essentially more like old FP was like, or more accurately, MaxPass at Disneyland. Except MaxPass never was going to work as well at WDW as it was at DL.

You absolutely can get canceled reservations with the new system. That part of Genie+ works essentially identically to FP+.

I am guessing the reason they didn't just charge for FP+ is because MaxPass had higher customer satisfaction numbers than FP+. To be clear, I don't have any inside information, I'm just assuming it's true based on the fact that I heard very few complaints about MaxPass and endless complaints about FP+, and the fact that Disney tossed FP+ and basically copied MaxPass at WDW.

FP+ gives a huge advantage to long-term planners and frustrates everyone else. Keep in mind that most people do not plan their vacations months in advance. I routinely get questions from friends who are planning a Disney World trip maybe 2-4 weeks in advance. With FP+, I had to tell them that the FP slots for all the best rides were gone. Now I can give them some tips for how to get what they want on the day they visit that park.

I do think they could offer a hybrid approach, where guests could book 1-2 Lightning Lanes in advance, from a pool of maybe 1/3 of the overall slots. That might help satisfy the planners, while making the system work OK for the folks who just show up with no plan.

 

[Princesca]

I dislike the extra cost, but just like with Fast Pass, Genie+ let's you plan your day. My only complaint is that you can only make one reservation at a time.

To me, G+ does not let me plan my day. It's the opposite, because you are walking all over the park at the whim of whatever is available. FP+ was something I could incorporate and plan around. How do you plan around an uncertainty?

 

[Princesca]

Oops dupe post, sorry!!

 

[Princesca]

I thought so initially, but won't that be the exact guest who tries to use it and finds out everything is gone by 11 and feel the most ripped off?

Also, what casual visitor could figure this arcane system out on the fly??? It's not exactly user friendly. I'm a Disney planner vet and even I have a hard time grasping this.

 

[Doug7856]

To me, G+ does not let me plan my day. It's the opposite, because you are walking all over the park at the whim of whatever is available. FP+ was something I could incorporate and plan around. How do you plan around an uncertainty?

This is my concern. I haven’t used G+ yet, but we have members of our party with mobility challenges that prefer walking to using assistance devices (such as a wheelchair). I fear that G+ will make the walking less tolerable for people with early or mild disabilities.

 

[Princesca]

This is my concern. I haven’t used G+ yet, but we have members of our party with mobility challenges that prefer walking to using assistance devices (such as a wheelchair). I fear that G+ will make the walking less tolerable for people with early or mild disabilities.

Exactly. How are grandma and grandpa going to handle all this walking? Hey wait, was G+ cosponsored by a scooter rental company?! Should have been.

And it's hard on little ones too. With FP+, we would divide MK or EP into two parts, and get FPs that aligned with that, and planned around them to minimize walking. Even adults with no mobility challenges are beat after a day walking the parks... I can't imagine the level of exhaustion we will feel after following G+ flow.

 

[Doug7856]

Exactly. How are grandma and grandpa going to handle all this walking? Hey wait, was G+ cosponsored by a scooter rental company?! Should have been.

And it's hard on little ones too. With FP+, we would divide MK or EP into two parts, and get FPs that aligned with that, and planned around them to minimize walking. Even adults with no mobility challenges are beat after a day walking the parks... I can't imagine the level of exhaustion we will feel after following G+ flow.

The entire G+ initiative seems to have had the objective of more cash flow and the consequences of its implementation on the guest experience weren't really evaluated (or were ignored). I believe we will still enjoy our Disney vacation but from a mature perspective. If we were a younger family, the devotion we have to Disney vacations would be harder to justify in this environment. From a personal experience, we'll know better in December.

 

[Westerner]

I do think they could offer a hybrid approach, where guests could book 1-2 Lightning Lanes in advance, from a pool of maybe 1/3 of the overall slots. That might help satisfy the planners, while making the system work OK for the folks who just show up with no plan.

I think that's a reasonable suggestion. Another idea might be to allow guests to block off times they don't want and the system would automatically assign the 1st available return window *after* the blocked off times. Most guests want earlier return windows anyway so this would be a win-win. No sense assigning a return window of 6pm to someone who has an ADR at that time when 8pm is available... and then the 6pm is open for someone who actually wants it.

 

[Jrb1979]

I think that's a reasonable suggestion. Another idea might be to allow guests to block off times they don't want and the system would automatically assign the 1st available return window *after* the blocked off times. Most guests want earlier return windows anyway so this would be a win-win. No sense assigning a return window of 6pm to someone who has an ADR at that time when 8pm is available... and then the 6pm is open for someone who actually wants it.

Or how about get rid of the return time thing all together. Make it similar to how Universal does it but at the same limit availability of the pass.

 

[Westerner]

Or how about get rid of the return time thing all together. Make it similar to how Universal does it but at the same limit availability of the pass.

Yes, several have looked admiringly at Universal's model lately for its simplicity and are willing to pay $$. One counterargument is that a full-blown skip-the-line-on-demand model wouldn't work at WDW - crowds are on a larger scale altogether.

Speaking personally, an Express Pass type system feels like an ever bigger wdw-is-for-the-rich approach. I'd rather the beancounter/upcharge faction at Disney not go further down this road than they already have. One thing I like at Disney is some of Walt's original middle class vision survives. Fort Wilderness still exists. Disney is more lenient about bringing in food than Universal. CM's called me "friend". Whatever the "fix" for G+ is I would rather it not cost more $.

 

[lockets]

Whatever the "fix" for G+ is I would rather it not cost more $.

100% agree.

 

[tentaguasu]

Speaking personally, an Express Pass type system feels like an ever bigger wdw-is-for-the-rich approach.

This is a big one for me. Let's be honest - there is a tension between fans (including on this board) between those able and willing to pay what it takes to have the best experience and those who can't (or won't) pay more. There is a reasonable, free-market argument that if you can pay more, you should get more. The trick is where to draw those lines.

Very few of us can pay for a VIP tour, but very few of us get upset about it. Hey, some people are loaded, so good for them. But we don't mind because we figure it affects maybe 0.1% of guests.

But if you make a Universal style system, then it's suddenly gone from 0.1% to... maybe 20%? Then it starts to feel more like the haves and the have nots.

And if you go with G+ then you get maybe 50% adoption. And it feels even more "money grubby" and divisive between who can and can't pay or will and won't.

In an odd way, the more expensive and exclusive the option, the fewer people take advantage of it and the less it feels like social status sorting system.

The lower the price, the more it starts to divide everyday users. But if it gets too low, then suddenly everyone uses it, and it doesn't work.

I don't know what my takeaway is, just that I like the parks themselves feeling a bit more egalitarian. Once you're in, you're in, and we're all playing the same game. Which is way I dislike paid systems like Universals.

 

[greeneyedchick]

Let's zoom out and look at the real problem: G+ is charging customers to "solve" a problem that Disney created for themselves. Disney knows guests dislike waiting in lines but instead of fixing the line problem, they are charging a their guests extra to have a pleasant park experience (theoretically, anyway).

Disney has the technology to revolutionize the theme park experience by doing away with traditional lines altogether. The ideal Genie system would be for every line to be a virtual line. Tap your magic band to enter the virtual queue, come back when your wait is over. Regular Genie service would be one line at a time, with the wait time based on how many people are virtually in front of you. From there, a G+ service would work similarly to Universal: higher price point, but you can cut the line of say, five different attractions per day, no pre-planning needed, one park per day. There would be a limited number of G+ passes sold per day, and Club Level guests would have this included as a perk.

Take all of the metal barriers out of the queue areas and install tables and chairs (because really, there isn't single QS restaurant that provides enough seating in the shade, which is just inexcusable), or additional "character experience" areas--mini shows where the characters sing and tell stories every few hours. Some of the queue installations (Expedition Everest, Peter Pan, etc.) are incredible but no one has time to properly enjoy them because you have to shuffle forward 2 feet every 10 seconds. Or be lazy as heck and just have a TV playing Disney films and some benches for kids to have cool down time. Do you know how many times I've seen kids have absolute meltdowns when all they really need is a shady place to sit with a cold cup of juice?

Disney used to be a leader in theme park experiences, and getting rid of physical lines would truly put them leagues ahead of their competitors while still giving the opportunity for additional revenue. But instead of strategically trying to improve guest experience AND increase revenue, they try to rush out a half-finished app update that charges you a nominal fee for a world of frustration that drags down the experience further.

I 100% agree that that would have been the best solution. Whatever line you want to wait in, get a virtual spot in that line (one ride at a time) and then spend the time enjoying the ambiance. I wish Disney's management would have thought of that. In them mean time, they could make sure that all rides are running at full capacity, maintain their rides so they don't break down, bring back all of the shows and entertainment, and increase park hours to 8am-12pm daily. There are things that they could do but choose not to to save money. They should also be planning a 5th park. Once Universal's new park opens, they are going to have to compete. As far as I'm concerned, their new rides are not a draw because I know that there's little chance of actually getting a spot in the line for the newest and best rides if I go. I'm a local and annual passholders didn't have a chance with the old fastpass system and even less of a chance with Genie+.

 

[Ddean52]

Another reality is that FP+ (which many posters on this board thought would be so unpopular that it would bring down the Disney company, but which I liked) is gone, just like the old paper FP system and the A-E ticket books.

I think once people make the transition the planning is different, but not any greater, than the two FP systems.

How do you begin the process for genie plus correct?

 

[Elephantay]

I just got back from a week long trip. I had prepaid for Genie+. I also think it is a must have and we used the individual lines a lot more than I had anticipated.

I do think it is a questionable purchase if you are staying offsite. By 7:05, most of the good stuff was long gone so I would imagine it would be very difficult to use at 9.

I also intentionally booked my first one at 11:05 or later so I could get a second selection at 11. I generally had two LL selections at any given time.

what does this mean?

 

[Feberin]

FP+ gives a huge advantage to long-term planners and frustrates everyone else. Keep in mind that most people do not plan their vacations months in advance. I routinely get questions from friends who are planning a Disney World trip maybe 2-4 weeks in advance. With FP+, I had to tell them that the FP slots for all the best rides were gone. Now I can give them some tips for how to get what they want on the day they visit that park.

I do think they could offer a hybrid approach, where guests could book 1-2 Lightning Lanes in advance, from a pool of maybe 1/3 of the overall slots. That might help satisfy the planners, while making the system work OK for the folks who just show up with no plan.

I would think a number of people don't plan at all. We repeatedly told my BIL and SIL to book FP+ when they went a few years ago. They never did and didn't try until they were in the park. They hate Disney and say they'll never go back because nothing was available and lines were so long. They also didn't bother making ADRs and were frustrated that they couldn't eat at BOG. I don't think they're the only people who do zero advanced planning. They also went to Universal and loved it.

I'd love some mixed system or anything allowing making selections in advance. I hate that I'll wake up with no clue if we'll be able to get the rides that I'm hoping to get on genie+ or what times.

 

[spiders]

what does this mean?

The two hour rule still applies. So after two hours, you can make a second selection. So let’s say you’re up at 7 but the park opens at 9. If you pick at 10:45 selection then at 10:45 you can obviously go ride but that will be it. If you pick something more than 2 hours after the park opens then at 11:00 you will be eligible to make another selection and then you’ll have two at the same time. When you use your first one, you can then make another selection and keep on having two.