Guest Assistance Cards ending, to be replaced with Fastpasses?

[Spoot]

Based on everything I read, I think anyone can get a looping pass, you just have to be able to explain why you need it. However, I do think they have to be autistic, whether a child or adult.

From what I understand some autistic people, if they don't loop certain rides, have such severe melt downs that it makes it very uncomfortable for everyone involved and around them. Therefore, Disney believes it's worth it to give these passes out to prevent such disruptions within the park. The looping privilege is not not for people who will just be disappointed they cannot ride again right away. They are for people who will take on extreme behaviors if they cannot do it.

Children (or adults) with OCD could have the same need. And I'm sure that there are other conditions. I'm pretty sure it is against the ADA to say that people have to be autistic (or whatever) to get a certain accommodation, especially since they cannot legally ask what disability someone has.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Children (or adults) with OCD could have the same need. And I'm sure that there are other conditions. I'm pretty sure it is against the ADA to say that people have to be autistic (or whatever) to get a certain accommodation, especially since they cannot legally ask what disability someone has.

Which is exactly why it will be abused under DAS just like it was under GAC. Anyone can walk up, claim that they or their child "needs" to loop, and voila! the same abuse as before.

 

[mefordis]

Children (or adults) with OCD could have the same need. And I'm sure that there are other conditions. I'm pretty sure it is against the ADA to say that people have to be autistic (or whatever) to get a certain accommodation, especially since they cannot legally ask what disability someone has.

I read that they do ask if they are autistic. I think it's about the reaction after the news they cannot ride, rather than the compulsion alone. For example, OCD people could want to repeat the ride but they are cognitively able to handle an uncomfortable situation better than an autistic person. They don't usually go into melt downs on the scale of an autistic person. They can understand why they cannot ride again right away.

However, let me know if you hear of anyone who is able to get a looping pass without stating they are autistic. I could be wrong.

Here is a question, though: are these passes for all rides or just one ride?

 

[Spoot]

I read that they do ask if they are autistic. I think it's about the reaction after the news they cannot ride, rather than the compulsion alone. For example, OCD people could want to repeat the ride but they are cognitively able to handle an uncomfortable situation better than an autistic person.

However, let me know if you hear of anyone who is able to get a looping pass without stating they are autistic. I could be wrong.

Here is a question, though: are these passes for all rides or just one ride?

Clearly all people with OCD and autism are different but thinking of the two people I know best (one with OCD and one who is autistic), the one with OCD would actually be the one I could see needing the accommodation - he most definitely is not better able to handle an "uncomfortable situation" (actually, I wouldn't call it an "uncomfortable situation" anymore than I would call a situation that triggers a reaction in the one with autism as merely an "uncomfortable situation").

 

[mefordis]

Clearly all people with OCD and autism are different but thinking of the two people I know best (one with OCD and one who is autistic), the one with OCD would actually be the one I could see needing the accommodation - he most definitely is not better able to handle an "uncomfortable situation" (actually, I wouldn't call it an "uncomfortable situation" anymore than I would call a situation that triggers a reaction in the one with autism as merely an "uncomfortable situation").

Is it not a situation that causes discomfort? Hence, uncomfortable situation.

Whatever, I think it really depends on the CM you talk to and how you present yourself, and perhaps other factors that determine whether or not you get the looping pass. It's not cut and dry. I'd say ask if you want one. The worst they can say is "No".

 

[Spoot]

Is it not a situation that causes discomfort? Hence, uncomfortable situation.

Whatever, I think it really depends on the CM you talk to and how you present yourself, and perhaps other factors that determine whether or not you get the looping pass. It's not cut and dry. I'd say ask if you want one. The worst they can say is "No".

Sorry, it seemed that "uncomfortable situation" was minimizing things - like for an someone with OCD it was an uncomfortable situation that could be overcome but for someone with autism it is a situation that needs special accommodations.

BTW - not arguing with you that people have said that the accommodation is only for those with autism. I'm just saying that that is unfair (and, likely, illegal). We won't be there for a while, so hopefully things will have been sorted out before our visit.

 

[mefordis]

Sorry, it seemed that "uncomfortable situation" was minimizing things - like for an someone with OCD it was an uncomfortable situation that could be overcome but for someone with autism it is a situation that needs special accommodations.

BTW - not arguing with you that people have said that the accommodation is only for those with autism. I'm just saying that that is unfair (and, likely, illegal). We won't be there for a while, so hopefully things will have been sorted out before our visit.

No problem! I could definitely be wrong that they ask if they are Autistic. I think different CMS handle things differently. I believe they would issue a looping pass to anyone who can explain why they need it.

 

[jcb]

Children (or adults) with OCD could have the same need. And I'm sure that there are other conditions. I'm pretty sure it is against the ADA to say that people have to be autistic (or whatever) to get a certain accommodation, especially since they cannot legally ask what disability someone has.

Just curious, why do you say this?

Disney acknowledges it cannot require "proof" of a disability but I wonder how Disney can make a reasonable modification to a policy without, at a minimum, asking what it needs to do for a specific impairment.

 

[Spoot]

Just curious, why do you say this?

Disney acknowledges it cannot require "proof" of a disability but I wonder how Disney can make a reasonable modification to a policy without, at a minimum, asking what it needs to do for a specific impairment.

Asking what someone's needs are is different from asking for the name of their disability. At least, that is what I've been told - if you read the DISability threads, they often point out that there is no such thing a "qualifying disability", you need to be able to tell them your (or your child's) needs.

 

[jcb]

Asking what someone's needs are is different from asking for the name of their disability. At least, that is what I've been told - if you read the DISability threads, they often point out that there is no such thing a "qualifying disability", you need to be able to tell them your (or your child's) needs.

I agree with this to a certain degree. It is true that an accommodation for one person's disability will not always fit another person who has the "same disability." Many disabilities differ in severity. Even so, knowing the disability/impairment is a start.

I have spent a decent amount of time trying to find any law or regulation that outright prohibits Disney from asking what disability/impairment it needs to address, at least for the less obvious impairments. I was just wondering whether you were aware of something I couldn't find.

I may be a know-it-all but I don't claim to be infallible.

 

[disney david]

I agree with this to a certain degree. It is true that an accommodation for one person's disability will not always fit another person who has the "same disability." Many disabilities differ in severity. Even so, knowing the disability/impairment is a start.

I have spent a decent amount of time trying to find any law or regulation that outright prohibits Disney from asking what disability/impairment it needs to address, at least for the less obvious impairments. I was just wondering whether you were aware of something I couldn't find.

I may be a know-it-all but I don't claim to be infallible.

saying your a know it all jack is a good thing you do know it all

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Jack the ada forbids anyone not just Disney from asking for proof if you have a disabilities. Disney can ask what accommodation you need. They can't read dr notes or can they ask for one they can't require proof of any kind.


Jack a great person to talk to who can point you in the right direction if your working on a blog. Is sue the moderator of the disabilities forum.

But asking what disability someone has is not the same thing as asking for proof that they have it.

 

[jcb]

Jack the ada forbids anyone not just Disney from asking for proof if you have a disabilities. Disney can ask what accommodation you need. They can't read dr notes or can they ask for one they can't require proof of any kind.


Jack a great person to talk to who can point you in the right direction if your working on a blog. Is sue the moderator of the disabilities forum.

Actually, David, the ADA says no such thing. I just read it. To be sure, the ADA prohibits employers, unions and the like from asking applicants or employees about medical conditions except in certain circumstances, one of which is so that the employer can make a reasonable accommodation to the employee. There is no similar prohibition in the provisions that apply to Disney as a theme park (it obviously has to comply with the employment rule as an employer). The DOJ regulations that govern theme parks ambiguously prohibit Disney (and others) from asking for proof of a disability (in most scenarios) but the DOJ isn't helpful in saying why asking violates the ADA.

This isn't to say asking about a disability or requiring proof of a disability is a good thing or something I'd recommend. In most instances it is not. But a mythos has arisen which loosely argues that even when trying to modify its policies, Disney can't ask about an individual's disability. I don't think even the DOJ goes that far.

 

[disney david]

But asking what disability someone has is not the same thing as asking for proof that they have it.

Yes your right but it to much a gray area to ask what your disabilities is. Because it my make some people think their asking for proof and their a lot of people who still bring dr notes. Which the cms are not allowed to ask or read.

 

[disney david]

Actually, David, the ADA says no such thing. I just read it. To be sure, the ADA prohibits employers, unions and the like from asking applicants or employees about medical conditions except in certain circumstances, one of which is so that the employer can make a reasonable accommodation to the employee. There is no similar prohibition in the provisions that apply to Disney as a theme park (it obviously has to comply with the employment rule as an employer). The DOJ regulations that govern theme parks ambiguously prohibit Disney (and others) from asking for proof of a disability (in most scenarios) but the DOJ isn't helpful in saying why asking violates the ADA.

This isn't to say asking about a disability or requiring proof of a disability is a good thing or something I'd recommend. In most instances it is not. But a mythos has arisen which loosely argues that even when trying to modify its policies, Disney can't ask about an individual's disability. I don't think even the DOJ goes that far.

So your saying mr burgin is that Disney can legally ask for a dr note or other proof you have a disability. That new thanks for doing the research and letting me know so I don't give out wrong info.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

So your saying mr burgin is that Disney can legally ask for a dr note or other proof you have a disability. That new thanks for doing the research and letting me know so I don't give out wrong info.

No, they cannot ask you for proof of your disability. If you are an EMPLOYEE, maybe. Not as a guest. Illegal.

 

[disney david]

No, they cannot ask you for proof of your disability. If you are an EMPLOYEE, maybe. Not as a guest. Illegal.

That was my point to begin with I shouldn't of put anyone Else should just put Disney. But have to trust jack burgin what he speaks is the truth.

 

[jcb]

No, they cannot ask you for proof of your disability. If you are an EMPLOYEE, maybe. Not as a guest. Illegal.

I'm not sure I would say it is necessarily "illegal" (as in an ADA violation, which it would be for an employer) but I agree it is not a good idea. Even Disney doesn't need to take on the DOJ over something so silly as asking about an individual's disability. It most instances there is no need to ask and in most others a short description of the symptoms tells Disney more than enough.

My point was simply there is an unworkable assumption here. Expecting a public accommodation like Disney to be unable to merely ask - as opposed to requiring "proof" (in all but an extreme case) - when a guest seeks a policy modification is something like telling a physician she can't ask about a patient's family medical history.

ETA: I revisited the DOJ regulations (mentioned above) and its explanation for them. Two points are worth making.

First, criteria that screen out individuals with a disability are illegal (unless the criteria are necessary for providing the goods). One excuse that is per se unacceptable is "The wishes, tastes, or preferences of other customers may not be asserted to justify criteria that would exclude or segregate individuals with disabilities." (I'll provide a cite to anyone who PMs me.)

Second, a DOJ regulation (it has said) "prohibits attempts by a public accommodation to unnecessarily identify the existence of a disability; for example, it would be a violation of this section for a retail store to require an individual to state on a credit application whether the applicant has epilepsy, mental illness, or any other disability, or to inquire unnecessarily whether an individual has HIV disease." This statement is in the DOJ's explanation for a regulation it adopted in 1991, not in the regulation itself.

Don't misunderstand. No one should take this as saying Disney can require proof of a disability. It would, at a minimum, be foolish. I tend to agree with the DOJ's conclusion that requiring "proof" or even unnecessarily asking an individual about a disability would not be consistent with the prohibition against unnecessary "segregation" or even "exclusion."

The DOJ's explanation does mean that Disney could ask a guest to identify the existence of a disability where it is necessary.

(P.S. I enjoyed your Peter Pan photo.)

 

[disney david]

I'm not sure I would say it is necessarily "illegal" (as in an ADA violation, which it would be for an employer) but I agree it is not a good idea. Even Disney doesn't need to take on the DOJ over something so silly as asking about an individual's disability. It most instances there is no need to ask and in most others a short description of the symptoms tells Disney more than enough.

My point was simply there is an unworkable assumption here. Expecting a public accommodation like Disney to be unable to merely ask - as opposed to requiring "proof" (in all but an extreme case) - when a guest seeks a policy modification is something like telling a physician she can't ask about a patient's family medical history.

(P.S. I enjoyed your Peter Pan photo.)

Sorry jack I just need to know straight out simple question not talking about unions or employers or anything else. I am asking if a Disney guest relations cm can ask a guest flat out for a dr note or proof of their disabilities. Or is that against the Ada/law because for a long time on the disabilities forum if someone say their bring a dr note everyone says they don't need to because the cm can't ask for it because the Ada forbids them from reading it. I just like to know which is right can Disney ask a guest for proof or a dr note or can't they.

Or can they ask what disability you have without breaking the law. Or can they only ask questions toward what accommodation you need and stay away from the medical part of it.

 

[doconeill]

Sorry jack I just need to know straight out simple question not talking about unions or employers or anything else. I am asking if a Disney guest relations cm can ask a guest flat out for a dr note or proof of their disabilities. Or is that against the Ada/law because for a long time on the disabilities forum if someone say their bring a dr note everyone says they don't need to because the cm can't ask for it because the Ada forbids them from reading it. I just like to know which is right can Disney ask a guest for proof or a dr note or can't they.

Or can they ask what disability you have without breaking the law. Or can they only ask questions toward what accommodation you need and stay away from the medical part of it.

I thought it was pretty straight forward - Disney cannot ask for PROOF. It can, however ask about a disability in order to provide accommodation.

So, they can ask me about why, for example, I am unable to stand for an extended period of time in the sun, in order to provide appropriate alternative accommodation, but they cannot ask me to prove I have such a disability.

A doctor's note, however, might be a grey area. If it is taken as proof (or worded as such) of a disability, I guess it could be a problem. If instead it gives recommendations, I don't know. But since it is a grey area, I think Disney would stay away from it.