How do you do it?

MarieLightning

DIS Veteran
Joined
May 23, 2012
I have to give so much props to Pete, and anyone else that's in charge of the podcast and Dis that belongs to the LGBT spectrum. To be fair, I know they definitely don't have time to read every thread and comment around.

I know this website forms a large community, and that's obviously what you want in a forum, to have a large reach, but sometimes I still can't help but wonder how people can come in with closed minds and homophobic stances. Nevermind the fact that this site was created by a gay man, Disney itself is such an LGBT friendly community, for the most part anyway.

I guess I'm just now realizing how dangerous it is to read a thread that broaches an LGBT topic but isn't contained within this section of the site.

And I get the whole, live and let live, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. That's been thrown around so much especially this past year, and I used to believe that. But now I realize that someone's opinion is only valid so long as it doesn't disrespect someone else's existence.

I wonder if it's a generational thing for me to have so much anger about it? I feel like a lot of people from older generations are a bit more complacent about it, because things have already evolved so much, and maybe because they're also wiser and know it's no point getting worked up about things you don't have control over. I could probably go into those threads, make valid points, respectful arguments, and do my best to enlighten people, and it still wouldn't amount to much because they don't have the willingness to open their minds, so why bother.

At the same time, I don't feel like my anger is misplaced, you know? Like, I'm not just gonna be okay with people implying that gays are alright so long as you don't have to deal with seeing them around. That our presence in society is now something that must be tolerated, but that doesn't mean we belong in the media, or anywhere we may be in plain sight. I won't get my anger get the best of me, because it would be detrimental for the fight for equality (as it usually is whenever a minority group is using it, invalidating their point), but I'm not gonna keep it from fueling my desire to fight for it either.

Sorry about this, I just felt a need to rant in a safe place.

So do you guys just usually avoid those topics, and keep your thoughts on anything LGBT related to this board?
 

Mattimation

Animator
Joined
Dec 11, 2016
They don't like what they don't understand, in fact it scares them

I know which thread you're talking about, and I'm a bit surprised it hasn't been closed yet considering the negativity it's attracting. I wanted to ignore it, but when I saw how everyone but you were coming from a place of homophobia, I had to speak up and try to call out what was happening - or at least point out that these people are in the minority.

Usually when I encounter someone with those opinions, I figure they don't even really know what it is they're afraid of. They can claim they "try to understand," but I've usually found that their thought process ends at "the Bible says it's wrong so I hate it," which is a cheap argument because I think most good christians know the "love thy neighbor" line rings much truer than any misconstrued line about man not lying with man. Or they're afraid of the "sex" in sexuality, thinking lgbts are all deviants and really not even considering that we want love and families. I know we'll never be rid of this kind of close mindedness or refusal to understand so I remind myself that it's them who are missing something, not me.

I'd like to know what they think of frequenting a site and supporting a business owned and operated by two gay men, employing even more LGBT folk. Are they unaware? Are they simply choosing to ignore it, but threaten to never return to Disney world should a movie introduce a gay character? It's baffling, though a bit funny.

With this said, I have found positive threads on the other boards about LGBT purposes - there's a very healthy conversation going about if LeFou will actually be good representation or not, that isn't going into a hateful place. That is, though, after a similar thread was shut down for being too homophobic. Before this week though, I didn't see too many subjects on the matter outside of this board. I honk Bill Condon did himself, Disney, BATB, and the gay Disney community a real disservice by making this into a big deal, because I don't think too much positivity has come out of it. Yes it's cool that we're getting representation, but it's the bumbling idiot bad guy. I think he should have left it for people to discover in the theater and saved Disney the (I'm sure miniscule) headache.
 

MarieLightning

DIS Veteran
Joined
May 23, 2012
I think those kind of people's convictions don't reach far down enough as to inconvenience them, to be honest. There's too many companies nowadays that have made clear that they support LGBT communities - Facebook, Google, Apple, Starbucks, Target, etc.

Saying that you won't go see a certain movie in theaters is a different matter than giving up something that will actually affect your day to day life, or even your yearly vacation plans.

Sometimes the worst part is reading some comments though, and telling myself, "all of these are the type that I could see being prefaced by 'I'm not homophobic, but...'" which of course, 99.99% of cases ends up being followed by a homophobic comment, whether it be actual slander or a little more in the undertones. So it's frustrating knowing a lot of these people probably view themselves as fairly open minded, when in reality, they probably follow the rule of "I don't mind gay people, so long as I don't have to see anything about them"

But thank you for commenting :) I felt a little whiny making this thread, but I felt I had to rant a bit about it and it seemed wiser to do it in this way than to lash out in a different place that may have escalated into a much worse situation.

As far as LeFou goes, I'm gonna hold out hope. I feel like they've taken liberties of reimagining certain characters with the live action movies, in ways that are maybe a bit more fitting for the non cartoon adaptation - like, the King in Cinderella for example, who's a lot less of a fool in the live action. I'm sure LeFou would still have his comical relief bumbling idiot moments (I mean, they did cast Josh Gad sooo) but I'm hopeful that there could be more to his character in the live action versus the animated movie.
 
  • atkinstogram

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Dec 30, 2016
    How do I contain it? Honestly, I don't. I put my point of view across as respectfully as I can, regardless of the section of the site, much as I do in real life. I try not to get into any kind of argument as I find that, particularly on the internet, nobody wins.

    We've all had crap to deal with of some sort or another in life, and I'll be damned if I'm going to let people picking and choosing which parts of the bible suits their particular brand of bigotry elbow their way into a debate without some kind of reply.

    I thought the LeFou thread was a relatively well behaved and courteous conversation. I was disappointed it was shut down when there was actually a dialogue going, and that really is the one thing lacking nowadays. Honest to goodness conversation.

    We'll never change the minds of the ones who are so hard and fast set in their backwards ways, but you know what? We don't need to. They're getting old. And they're being replaced by much more open minded people. Soon enough the bigots will be relegated to sitting on porches shouting at passing traffic.

    And if nothing else, just use the "I'm not homophobic but..." phrases as an easy identifier to pick out the homophobes.. :)

    Long story short, people can be dicks. Avoid the dickish ones and keep the good'uns..
     

    Doxycycline

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Dec 1, 2016
    Sadly, a lot of people in the United States have never really, truly interacted with people who are very different from them. Yes, they may have some exchanges of pleasantries with someone in public or wherever, but they have never really listened to the experiences of these different people. Because of this, I don't shy away from saying my piece during those conversations in real life. Even if they leave still disagreeing with me, they will have at least been exposed to a different world view, and hopefully, they will go on to think about this and maybe change.

    That may be idealistic, but short of hypnotizing people, it's the most realistic strategy. That's not to say it isn't frustrating, because a lot of the times it is, and tiring, too. That’s why I don’t blame people from eschewing those debates because I know how draining it all can be—it’s important to look out for your own well-being. It’s another reason why spaces of refuge like this LGBTQ board are so important.

    I may be talking in circles, but it's just how I see it.

    Also, the thought of homophobic Disney fans is a little confusing to me because like, c'mon, a lot of those characters are just guh-guh-guh-gay!
     

    Doxycycline

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Dec 1, 2016
    I also think that another issue with those closed-minded people is that the average person likes to think of themselves as a good person, so when you point out that their beliefs or actions are problematic, they get super defensive. It's the luxury of always having had your existence validated.
     
  • DisBabe94

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Apr 23, 2016
    I had to back out of those threads to keep myself from flaming somebody. This is an issue I am very passionate about. And the excuses these people make are so ridiculous. Somebody commenting that they don't want to expose their children to "sexual content".... like dude... the movie is rated PG.... It's just mental gymnastics. As PP said, people like to think of themselves as good people so they will shoehorn in some logic to fit their stance and say if you don't agree "not all people think the same way" ugh.... As if being a homophobic jerk is somehow adding the benefit of diversity to the planet or something. Come on
     

    atkinstogram

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Dec 30, 2016
    On the plus side, continued exposure to alternative viewpoints does work. My friend when we first met was super homophobic (because his church told him to be) and really anti marriage between two gentlemen in comfortable shoes..

    Six or seven years later and his point of view is much more mellow. I'd probably even invite him to my wedding. And he'd probably come.

    Progress is sloooooow, and it is personal, but it is progress..
     

    MightyDuck001

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Oct 28, 2009
    I appreciate the "I don't care but don't rub it in my face" caveat. My male colleague can say "I went to Costco with my girlfriend over the weekend and got some great shirts" but I say the exact same thing and it's whoa whoa whoa pervert stop shoving your gay agenda down my throat.
     

    cruisehopeful

    Wishing I was taking a nap on a ship.
    Joined
    Oct 25, 2015
    Late to the party, but I just had to go read that thread to see what all the hubub was about. I think people made a lot of assumptions before they saw the movie. We all know what happens when we assume. I tend to get irate pretty quickly when people are intolerant or homophobic, but my kids have told me that it's probably better if I educate people rather than say that they are dumb. I still like to assume that people are too stupid to be educated. That is my personal downfall.
     
  • arminnie

    <font color=blue>Tossed the butter kept the gin<br
    Joined
    Aug 22, 2003
    Sometimes I wonder if I am just too optimistic and hopeful. I am not gay but I have dealt with gay friends and associates for over 50 years (yes I am very old). I remember when being gay was something that was tacitly accepted but not openly acknowledged. Fortunately in today's world (at least mine) it's not much of an issue at all. I'm glad to see the progress.

    My two best friends in the world are two gay women who have been together for 25 years. I loved the fact that they could finally get married. But their being gay is really a non issue in our friendship. It wouldn't matter one bit if one was male and one was female.

    One of my work associates was not transgender but he was a very successful drag queen. Another work associate was a transgendered male. He did a great job for me and as I had no interest in him as a sexual partner I had no interest in what his plumbing was or had been.

    I am more concerned if someone is a decent human being than in what they do in the bedroom. I despise people who lie, cheat, and steal - and that rarely has to do with their sexual activities.

    I remember asking a gay female friend almost 20 years ago how she was any different from me. We both agreed that the only difference was who she chose to love. Not any different to me than any person who chose to love a man or woman that I would not have picked for myself.
     

    Catvondita

    A Quirky Strange Girl in a Disney World
    Joined
    Mar 18, 2015
    Honestly I always try to speak up when I see those kind of comments. I may get a warning but my anger gets the better of me. I remember that thread and I remember the facebook comments on the FB post. Such bigoted pieces of ( I really wish you could curse on here :P)
     


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