I don't understand why its such a big deal to take your children out of school..

[disfanRN]

I really believe this is an individual choice for each parent and child. For me personally, I continue to take my DD10 out of school for our vacations becasue that is when it works best for us. Last year, it was 17 days for the year. I have to say the school has been great about it- really not many barriers. We are very responsible for her work, and have done much homework while on vacation during rest periods. She has gotten and continues to get straight A's and learning comes easy for her, perhaps I would feel differently if it didn't.

That said- I cannot tell you how important I think it is to see the "big picture" in life. I work in a hospital and see tragedy every day, in adults and children who never thought they would have such a limited time on this earth. My theory is you never know what tomorrow will bring, or if it even will come, so you need to live delibertely. I don't believe one should only live for today, but realize the importance of making memories and being together.
It makes me incredibly sad when I hear these patients saying " I wish I had..."
So I am trying not to wish anything and just do it. If that means taking my child out of school to make it happen- so be it. In my view, on the life importance scale, time together as a family at WDW or anywhere else will always win.

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

for taking DS out for 4 days in October. I knew it would be unexcused, and the policy is "3 or more" unexcused days in a 4 week period. DS's teachers were FINE with him being out. His one teacher said to just write a note saying he was sick and be done with it. So we did.

We get a notice that DS is a truant and I must attend a mandatory parent meeting. This meeting is downtown and starts BEFORE I get off work! My child is NOT a truant! They say the reason they won't excuse the days is that we didn't have a doctor's note. Nobody said we needed one. The district rules say you MAY be asked to provide a note, not you WILL be REQUIRED to provide a note. They never asked if I had a note, they just sent me this notice.

I told the school office that 1) DS is NOT a truant, 2) I will NOT attend a meeting. Then I asked them what I am supposed to do about this MANDATORY meeting where I am sure they will lecture me about attendance and read the policies to me out of the little book. I can RECITE the little book which is how I know it does NOT say a note MUST be provided by the doctor for absences longer than 2 days. The office said if I don't go to the meeting the district will make a note that I didn't show up and I will receive a more serious punishment next time DS has an unexcused absence. Which is fine since there won't BE any additional unexcused days!

So if they choose to fine me $500 and charge me with a misdemeanor we will sue them. There is NO uniformity among Texas districts, yet I am supposedly violating a Texas compulsory attendance law. How can you have a law when all the districts are different? Our attorney thinks the policy is crap and she thinks we would win if we challenged it.

So we'll see what happens! October was the only week DH was able to take vacation. Obviously we hope next year he can get a week off when DS is out of school. I don't appreciate being bullied by the school district. I can understand the necessity of some sort truancy policy but this policy is silly. The second half of the policy - no more than 10 unexcused absences over the course of the school year - is reasonable. No more than 2 in a 4 week period is what gets me. I can take him on a 3 day weekend twice every month, but we can't take him out for 4 consecutive days? What's the difference? He can skip 9 days, spread out from August to May (basically one day a month) and they don't care, but if he misses 4 days in a row they will prosecute me for truancy? Stupid.

 

[WIcruizer]

So if they choose to fine me $500 and charge me with a misdemeanor we will sue them.

I empathize with you, this does seem extreme. With that said, as an outsider looking in it looks like you're making a bad situation worse. You knowingly violated the policy, now you're compounding the problem by suing.

This is one of the dangers of pulling your kids out. You better understand the district's policy, and if you're not prepared to live with the consequences think twice. This would be a perfect opportunity to teach your son a valuable lesson. Instead of suing the district, agree to pay the fine. Explain to your son that life isn't always fair, and mom and dad were wrong. Even though we don't agree with every law, rule, and regulation, we must obey them. Then go out and try to get the policy changed.

 

[cricket429]

The "big deal" about taking your child out of school for vacations is setting priorities and teaching them about their responsibilities. As young as Kindergarten, these lessons can be taught. I am not talking about a day here or a day there, I am talking about a week or more at a time. There are so many weeks throughout the year that they are not in school and yes, those might be the busier times at Disney but it is manageable. We did it over Easter break this year and had a great time.

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

I empathize with you, this does seem extreme. With that said, as an outsider looking in it looks like you're making a bad situation worse. You knowingly violated the policy, now you're compounding the problem by suing.

This is one of the dangers of pulling your kids out. You better understand the district's policy, and if you're not prepared to live with the consequences think twice. This would be a perfect opportunity to teach your son a valuable lesson. Instead of suing the district, agree to pay the fine. Explain to your son that life isn't always fair, and mom and dad were wrong. Even though we don't agree with every law, rule, and regulation, we must obey them. Then go out and try to get the policy changed.

I do see your point. The problem is we can pay the fine and just go about our business if we want to, but that doesn't make the policy RIGHT. The policy is up to interpretation by every individual district, and enforcement is also up to the districts. If they feel like prosecuting they can, if not, they don't have to. So should parents be allowed to take their kids on vacation as long as they submit a payment of $500 to the district afterwards? That kind of makes it a socio-economic issue. It really isn't the school's place to determine if a child can go out of town. If the child's grades are not a problem then the district should butt out. Truancy is a real problem in Dallas - I get that. But their time and money would be FAR better spent going after REAL truants, not elementary kids on vacation! It would annoy me to pay $500, but I could pay it if I had to. The lesson my son would get from that is "all things are possible if you have money". So let's hope the district is willing to count the notice as a "warning" and leave me alone!

 

[WIcruizer]

It really isn't the school's place to determine if a child can go out of town

OMG, yes it is! It's the districts job to set the school calendar, and make sure students attend those days. Otherwise, where does it end? Is it ok to pull them out 2 weeks...3 weeks every school year? Teachers will never know who's there, who's excused, who's unexcused. Just a big mess. We all have options. Home schooling, private schools, other school distrcis that allow pulling kids out- if it's that important.

 

[graygables]

OMG, yes it is! It's the districts job to set the school calendar, and make sure students attend those days. Otherwise, where does it end? Is it ok to pull them out 2 weeks...3 weeks every school year? Teachers will never know who's there, who's excused, who's unexcused. Just a big mess. We all have options. Home schooling, private schools, other school distrcis that allow pulling kids out- if it's that important.

OMG, NO IT ISN'T! It is the district's job to provide a book education to children. It is NOT the district's job to tell anyone how to parent.

Jackskellingtonsgirl (and others who have asked), since you are in Texas, have a look at this document: http://www.txjf.org/parental.html

It is the original that I modified for my state when I needed it for my DDs school. It is quite stringent, but can easily be modified to fit your parenting choices. It's easier for you, b/c a lot of the laws cited are Texas laws, but many are also federal.

 

[WIcruizer]

It is NOT the district's job to tell anyone how to parent.

Don't be so dramatic. They're not telling anyone how to parent (at least not in this case.) They just require attendance, which is not asking a whole lot. Otherwise where does it end? I'M the PARENT, so if I want my kids there only on Tuesdays, I decide how to parent! Oh...and when they do attend on Tuesdays, they will wear shirts saying F you.

Of course that's not allowed, even if I feel that's acceptable as a parent.

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

WOW! Now why have I never seen that document before?

Did you see in the part about truancy that it says FIVE days? FIVE unexcused absences in a six month period. Not "three or more days or parts of days in any four week period". No consistency.

Who writes these policies? I still don't get how something can be a STATE law yet every district in the state has different interpretations of the same law. The law that says how I can't travel with my child or I will be fined. I will say if there was jail time I wouldn't have taken DS out. If they want a truancy law with teeth there should be jail time. Like I said before, the fine will annoy me but it won't teach me anything or convince me not to do it again. I have already decided not to do it again, simply because DS is going to be in 5th grade next year and it will be difficult for him to catch up.

DS used to be in private school. We chose to move him to public school because the private school was too small and the kids were cookie-cutter images of each other. I could pay a LOT of truancy fines before it cost me as much as one year of tuition. Every form of education has trade offs.

 

[MrsPete]

I told the school office that 1) DS is NOT a truant, 2) I will NOT attend a meeting.

Well, he might not be a habitual truant, but if he's missing school intentionally for a non-approved reason, then he IS truant for these few days. True, he's truant with your permission, but he is truant nonetheless.

 

[LoveTink05]

OMG, NO IT ISN'T! It is the district's job to provide a book education to children. It is NOT the district's job to tell anyone how to parent.

I agree, although SOME people could use some help with their parenting skills! Trust me, I've seen it first hand!

 

[cricket429]

I cant believe that some people would pay truancy fines and break the rules of the school that they chose to send their child to, to prove a point and get they own way. What is this teaching your child? If you dont like the rules, break them and pay your way out.

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

Of course people will pay the fine, because it's only money. It is pretty easy to write a check and be done with it.

I think the policy is silly. I chose to break the "rules" with full knowledge of the possible consequences. But if I am willing to fork over $500 the whole issue goes away as long as my child is present 90% of the time and has passing grades. That's extortion. But if I am willing to pay I am allowed to break the rules. That's how the district chose to set it up!

Truancy laws need to focus on repeat offenders. A child who has missed 45 days of school will NOT have passing scores in any class. Fine THOSE parents. There was a news story about this recently, and the kids in that courtroom had missed WEEKS of school. One of them had missed a full THIRD of the YEAR! A kid who misses 60 days skipping and a kid who misses four days being taken out of town with his parents are two totally different issues.

Two years ago DS was out sick a total of 17 days over the course of the school year. 5 of those days he was hospitalized. The district never asked for a doctor's note, even though DS went to the doctor every time he was ill. I fail to see what difference it makes WHY a child is absent if the child's overall attendance and academic record are acceptable. He can miss 17 days without them batting an eye, but now he misses 4 days (the only days he has been out this year) and it is a BIG deal. Being out 17 days didn't hurt his academic performance. Being out 4 days won't hurt him, either, especially since he turned in part of his assignments before we left!

My child is not a truant in the sense that sending me to a lecture on truancy will make a difference. Truant in the sense that he had 4 consecutive days of unexcused absences, yes.

What I wonder is this:
What if a child is sick for 4 days but doesn't see the doctor? Those days are automatically unexcused? I don't see the district jumping up to pay for a visit to the pediatrician. We have a $500 per person annual deductible before our insurance pays a cent. There must be families out there who don't take their kids to the doctor unless they are gravely ill. So a kid with a stomach virus who just stays at home drinking fluids and resting is punished the same way a kid who goes to Disney World is punished? How can the district mandate that the child has to see a doctor? The whole thing is ridiculous.

 

[graygables]

What I wonder is this:
What if a child is sick for 4 days but doesn't see the doctor? Those days are automatically unexcused? I don't see the district jumping up to pay for a visit to the pediatrician. We have a $500 per person annual deductible before our insurance pays a cent. There must be families out there who don't take their kids to the doctor unless they are gravely ill. So a kid with a stomach virus who just stays at home drinking fluids and resting is punished the same way a kid who goes to Disney World is punished? How can the district mandate that the child has to see a doctor? The whole thing is ridiculous.

We have a *$5,000* deductible and office visits are NOT covered AT ALL...you bet my kids are pretty darned sick before we take the to the doctor. Even *with* a note from my teen DD's orthopedic doc, they still marked some of her absences "unexcused", b/c *THEY* (the school) didn't think it was necessary for her to miss when she was throwing up from the pain meds. I've said it my whole life...if I (or my kid) can learn the material and make the grades without their hineys warming the desk chair, then so be it.

 

[Savin4Disney]

I am taking DS out of school for 2 days during our upcoming trip. He has Wed-Fri off. I did not plan around his school as much as I planned around work. Which in the end did not matter since I lost my job a month ago.

I have in the past pulled DS out of school for:

Opening day of the Brewers - 2nd grade - and the teacher said it would be unexcused. So I called him in sick. This was the kid doing 4th grade work and he could not go to the last opening day of our old stadium with his Grandma who had never been.

Then I took him out for a week again in 2nd grade to go to Georgia. It was my college spring break, so he could see his Grandparents. I hated that teacher so I did not care what she said.

A week in 3rd grade for Disney. A trip with his Grandma.

So as you can see I have no issues with it and our schools are pretty much okay with it. If they aren't -- they have not told me.

 

[estherhead]

One time when I was school aged my sister got 5 days detention for being late to class five days in a semester. That was the punishment at the time. My mom tried to explain to the principal that it was her fault, not the kids, since she was the one who drove her to school (the buses were fully of bullies and drugs.) He basically told her to get lost. So the next day my mom showed up for detention. The teacher was thoroughly confused and Mom told him, "I deserve the detention, I did the crime." The principal got called up was truly disgusted with her, but the rule was changed.

See? Parents do have a say! lol

 

[graygables]

Another incident of the school being stupid:
When teen DD was in 8th grade, she and a few others made the high school marching band. They marched their fannies off in the summer, on the cold rainy/snowy Friday nights, etc. The band was going to BOA (a huge thing for marching bands), leaving directly after school and the "tradition" was for the band members to wear pajamas to school that day (much like cheerleaders or football players wearing their uniforms). It had been done forever and no one had a problem with it. Until the new junior high principal decided he was God. All the girls were pulled from class and sent to the office. Parents were called and told to bring the girls "proper" clothes. Now, I had seen what my DD wore and they were just some plaid flannel pants with a matching shirt, no big deal, my little DDs were sick, and the principal insisted I come in.

I changed little DDs and myself BACK into our pajamas and marched into the principal's office. I plopped my sick 3 year old on his desk and told him he'd better have a good explanation. Even after speaking w/ the high school principal, this jerk would not budge (couldn't look bad in front of junior high girls, I guess). The girls were all crying, some girls parents wouldn't/couldn't come in (the kids WERE leaving right after school, we sent them off that morning ready to go on a trip) So, I took DD home and had her change into a pair of SOLID jammie pants and took her back to the school. Suddenly, that was OK. Something that was supposed to be a fun, special, and memorable day was made horrible and miserable by one little man's power trip.

I reminded him that if they called EVERY student who was in violation of the dress code to the office, they wouldn't have quorum in the classrooms and he'd have a lot of PO'd parents lining his hallways. BUT, the reason this sad little excuse for a human was on his power trip was b/c he'd never been challenged by any parents. Everyone just cowed down and put up with whatever b/c he was, after all, the Almighty Principal. I daresay that if more parents took a stand for their rights regarding their children in public education, the schools would be much better off for it.

 

[polyfan]

Our policyi s no pajama and I completely agree with it. It is inappropriate. Do you wear pajamas to church? or to a restuarant? This is why schools are forced to set guidelines otherwise everyone would wear what they want and complain. I do not want my children sitting next to children in school in their pajamas or in a shirt that has an inappropriate saying on it.

 

[Sunny37]

Another incident of the school being stupid:
When teen DD was in 8th grade, she and a few others made the high school marching band. They marched their fannies off in the summer, on the cold rainy/snowy Friday nights, etc. The band was going to BOA (a huge thing for marching bands), leaving directly after school and the "tradition" was for the band members to wear pajamas to school that day (much like cheerleaders or football players wearing their uniforms). It had been done forever and no one had a problem with it. Until the new junior high principal decided he was God. All the girls were pulled from class and sent to the office. Parents were called and told to bring the girls "proper" clothes. Now, I had seen what my DD wore and they were just some plaid flannel pants with a matching shirt, no big deal, my little DDs were sick, and the principal insisted I come in.

I changed little DDs and myself BACK into our pajamas and marched into the principal's office. I plopped my sick 3 year old on his desk and told him he'd better have a good explanation. Even after speaking w/ the high school principal, this jerk would not budge (couldn't look bad in front of junior high girls, I guess). The girls were all crying, some girls parents wouldn't/couldn't come in (the kids WERE leaving right after school, we sent them off that morning ready to go on a trip) So, I took DD home and had her change into a pair of SOLID jammie pants and took her back to the school. Suddenly, that was OK. Something that was supposed to be a fun, special, and memorable day was made horrible and miserable by one little man's power trip.

I reminded him that if they called EVERY student who was in violation of the dress code to the office, they wouldn't have quorum in the classrooms and he'd have a lot of PO'd parents lining his hallways. BUT, the reason this sad little excuse for a human was on his power trip was b/c he'd never been challenged by any parents. Everyone just cowed down and put up with whatever b/c he was, after all, the Almighty Principal. I daresay that if more parents took a stand for their rights regarding their children in public education, the schools would be much better off for it.

This is not about an entire "school being stupid". Maybe ONE man...

Also, exactly how does this have anything to do with parents taking a stand for their children's rights in public education? They have the "right" to wear pajamas to school? Sounds like an excuse to get mad and gripe to me! If more parents cared about the real issues in education and would drop the petty dress code arguments, THEN the schools would be better off!

 

[MrsPete]

I don't think some of y'all grasp the big picture here: Schools are between a rock and a hard place when it comes to attendance.

On the one hand, schools know that attendance matters. It's a well-documented fact that students who attend regularly learn more, score better on end-of-course tests, etc. I'm amazed that parents write on these boards, "My child missed X number of days and it didn't affect him at all." We actually DO THINGS in my classroom, and it does affect students; some are heavily affected, some just have to work to catch up, but ALL have had some impact from absences. It's in the best interests of the student AND the school for everyone to have good attendance. Furthermore, if they don't have the necessary test scores, the school faces serious problems: at the worst, the entire administration can be fired, and the state can take over the school. If people see this train-wreck situation approaching, the best teachers start looking for jobs elsewhere, the best students' parents start pulling them out, and everyone loses. And, of course, no one wants to see any student's grades drop.

Without an attendance policy, many families willl let their kids stay out willy-nilly. "Hey, there's a Dukes of Hazzard marathon on TV today -- let's stay home and watch it!" Seriously, you wouldn't believe the reasons kids give for staying out of school. Last week one of my kids told me that her mom came to school and checked her out because she realized (after arriving to school) that she'd put on dirty jeans and she smelled bad -- that one was a first for me. I've had kids stay out of school to take their dogs to the vet for shots. I've had kids checked out of school to go shopping. I had one kid who dropped his sandwich on the floor in the cafeteria; he cried, and called his mom to come pick him up for the rest of the day -- this is high school. He never did live that down. I had one kid who had a note from his mother saying that he wasn't required to use the bathrooms at school (they're not bad -- I use the student restrooms anytime I'm not carrying my keys); he was allowed to check out and drive home to his own potty any time he pleased. I've had kids miss school with parental permission to go to work at their part-time jobs. It's very obvious to me that schools MUST have a set of rules in place because some parents have a really warped idea of when it's okay to stay out of school! This kind of mess hurts the school AND the kids.

The school has to treat everyone the same way. If they send letters, etc. to the kids who stayed out a whole week to attend the local county fair (that's more common than you'd believe), then they also have to send letters to the kids who went to Disney for a week. They can't just pick and choose who's allowed to stay out of school.

Our county has named the official reasons for missing school, and they're excused:

1. Child is sick and shouldn't be in school (not little brother is sick and child needs to babysit); if the student is out for more than three days, a doctor's note is required. Stomach flu, etc doesn't usually last more than two days, so this is reasonable. This is the most abused rule; we're at about School day 55 right now, and I have kids who've "been sick" 8-9 days this school year; not in the hospital for a week, but sick for one day on Monday the 1st, then sick on Thursday the 9th, then sick again the following Wednesday. These are the sicknesses that tend to correspond with paper due dates. If these kids were really sick that may days, their parents -- I hope -- would be getting them some medical attention. However, since kids do really get the stomach flu for one day sometimes, I don't know how to get a handle on that problem. I have improved things in my own classroom by making two new rules: 1) If you're out sick the day a paper is due, you must email it to me (or have someone bring it to me) before the end of the school day. 2) If you're out sick on test day, you don't take the same test that everyone else took; you take an all-essay test (kids love those multiple-choice questions). If I have a kid whom I KNOW is sick, I'll be lenient with them, but these rules have significantly reduced absenteeism in my classroom.

2. Child needs to go to the doctor for a well-visit (not the teenaged child needs to drive grandma to the doctor).
3. Child needs to go to the dentist or orthodontist.
4. Death in the immediate family (the dog isn't a family member).
5. Family is under medical quarantine (okay, I"ve never personally seen that one used, but it's in the rule book).
6. Child is needed to work during planting/harvest season on his own family's farm, which provides main income for family (Growing up in the country, I have seen this one used; there were days when 80-90% of the boys were absent from school because it was hay-time. The boys loved that rule; however, families who needed that labor knew better than to abuse it.)

7. And finally, the controversial one: Extinuating circumstances approved in advance by the principal (this includes educational trips). For example, we have several boys in our senior class who are volunteer firemen. Their teachers know that they carry beepers, and they may jump up and leave with only a word. They know that if this is abused, it'll be lost. As for trips, the principal is likely to approve a trip to Italy that'll include museums and tours of the ruins, but he's not likely to approve a trip to Myrtle Beach. However, he probably would approve a child to miss a day of school to greet at the airport a parent returning from Iraq.

The bottom line is that schools -- especially large schools like mine -- must have rules for attendance and these will sometimes run afowl of parents' wishes. Keep in mind that LOTS of parents out there are completely unreasonable in their attendance expectations, and that's why the rules are there.