Idea to improve DAS

[Sunnywho]

My child may not need a DAS, but that doesn't make it any easier to explain wait times and why we can't go on the ride right now to him.

Um, assuming your child is verbal and nonautistic, I am quite sure it is easier.

 

[tinkerpea]

Again, fair to the DAS holder, but not fair to the non DAS holder. Fair would be if my wait times worked like that too. My child may not need a DAS, but that doesn't make it any easier to explain wait times and why we can't go on the ride right now to him. But, my child waits the wait time listed when we arrive at the attraction, not the wait time as of the moment we exited the prior attraction.
Just playing devils advocate here, as my child is far beyond the age of not understanding wait times. I have been in a group using a GAC for a niece with ASD, have been in a group with a wheelchair. So I've experienced it all. I'm just trying to step back and look at the picture as a whole. How everyone can be affected fairly.

I think the idea of a PP had merit. One time instant access to each attraction (like universals express pass) then any additional attractions at regular standby. Fair to everyone? No. Open to abuse? Absolutely! But it would cut down on the looping that slows down lines.... If the access is greater to the disabled, the rules could be set to reflect the greater access with tighter controls.

Just curious
Does that mean your not happy with the way the current DAS works too then?
Since the DAS holders are still at an advantage of not having to wait in a line?

 

[tinkerpea]

Sorry, it really does completely change the issue if you are talking about DL, not world. I dont know enough about Disneyland. At Disney world I can not imagine any way the proposed idea is not a huge advantage. The only way for it to not be an advantage at WDW would be if they literally marked you and you were not allowed to use a restroom, buy food, shop, or ride anything else until after your wait time. That time that other people are spending in line you now have free to do as you please. The people stuck in line have to come up with more time later to do all you could accomplish while they were in line. They have to wait until after they ride to even walk to their next ride. You get to use your "line time" to accomplish extra and walk to your next ride.
Maybe distance yourself for a minute and think of it this way- they are going to initiate this policy you propose, but you don't get to use it. No matter how difficult your regular life is, pretend the criteria excludes you... Is it fair? Is the person with the pass now on equal ground, or at an advantage?

Well then no matter if they keep the current DAS or changed to Universals one " it's what the OP is suggesting he has not made this system up it used at other parks"
You won't be happy with it, since its not the exact same experience to what you yourself have to have in the park.

 

[cmwade77]

Well then no matter if they keep the current DAS or changed to Universals one " it's what the OP is suggesting he has not made this system up it used at other parks"
You won't be happy with it, since its not the exact same experience to what you yourself have to have in the park.

Exactly, I am also told that many parks in Europe use the system I suggest.

 

[cmwade77]

That is utterly disgusting to be told to "stop flapping your hands" I'd have been livid,
I hope that CM gets some valuable teaching time.
This is why the stamps was so handy with the GAC they addressed the persons individual needs not just one size fits all need!!

Now that is not cool at all.

 

[Sunnywho]

Here is my thought:
Eliminate return times
Instead what would happen is you would present your DAS to the first CM you see at each attraction. They would write the date, atttraction name, arrival time, current wait time and the next valid time. The next valid time would be the current time plus the current wait time. You would then proceed to go on that ride. After that ride, you would need to wait for the next valid time to go on another ride with the pass.

I wonder if they considered this prior to rolling out the DAS. A drawback might be if a guest could just change the time (let's say the next valid time was 4:00 but the guest writes in 3:00 over it). With the current system, there was talk of a different code word being used each day at each ride so that abuse was less likely.

As for fairness, the point of DAS is to allow access for guests who might not otherwise be able to access the attractions. There are plenty of people who find the long lines uncomfortable, but they can deal with it and still have access. DAS is for guests who legitimately cannot deal with it. The current system might not be perfectly fair but that's not the goal; the goal is access for everyone. Allowing the guest to go straight into the ride and serve the wait time afterwards would improve access for any guest who cannot understand why they'd have to approach a ride to get the DAS time and then leave the ride without riding.

 

[richflour]

Deaf people are more than capable of waiting in line as hearing folks but how does some one with knees that are shot maneuver in and out of such an awkward ride by the way I do know all about handicap people my son is hearing visually impaired bound to a wheelchair needs a machine to help him breath mental and physically impaired its people like your family that make it difficult for people like my son to have a good time at a wonderful place like Disney

 

[Chickenlady]

To play devil's advocate, using your system would allow one definite advantage....Since you only wait the designated time after you ride...at the end of the evening you ride a ride and then instead of waiting, you go home. No way for you to actually wait for every ride you take. I'd much rather spend my wait time crawling into bed, than watching stranger's behinds from my ECV.

 

[cmwade77]

To play devil's advocate, using your system would allow one definite advantage....Since you only wait the designated time after you ride...at the end of the evening you ride a ride and then instead of waiting, you go home. No way for you to actually wait for every ride you take. I'd much rather spend my wait time crawling into bed, than watching stranger's behinds from my ECV.

I did mention this drawback, but I also explained how getting the pass in the morning accounts for it to some extent. I am sure there are other ways to account for it as well.

 

[Hopediamant]

Let's please keep this civil, there are plenty of people who are disabled who are able to ride Space.

I think most in here have been keeping it civil and many have valid points, I may not agree with them all, but they are valid points and I don't want us giving the moderators a reason to have to close this thread. Comments such as this one does nothing to further the conversation and is just trying to bait people.

I am very civil and polite but if this whole stamp and unlimited access whit no restrictions starts again we will get a DAS.
I never could explain to my children and now grandchildren why we had to wait patiently while others got access to BMR three times in a row.And yes we could see that.
Dealing with many problems after fighting cancer I never saw myself as needing a GAC but if this whole preferred access abuse starts again I will fully use it.
We just left when the man with the chemo aftermath hammer arrived. Some times I just could stay two hours in the parks.
That was what life gave me but now we will fully profit from the special treatment when the situation again gets out of hands.

 

[BroganMc]

Ok so if I understand this proposed system you'd be flipping it around to put the wait time at the end of the ride instead of the beginning. The benefit is that you're not starting your day with a wait and you'll be able to ride something at the end of the day when CMs are proving reluctant to give Return Times (i.e. in the last hour a park is open).

No I don't find that unfair to non-DAS people. You're still taking the same amount of time to do an attraction. The extra time for waiting is taken at the end and prohibits you from getting on something until you have completed that wait.

One thing I found potentially unfair at DAS is that it does not account for the additional wait one encounters when using a wheelchair-accessible vehicle. Since there are so few of those it is common to encounter a line that can take another 20 mins or so above and beyond what a non-wheelchair car user encounters. This system will include that wait in it's post-ride Return Time.

Example: I go to TSM at 2pm when there is a 90 min wait. I'm admitted into the FP line and then wait for the wheelchair vehicle another 30 mins to board (6 mins allotted for each party in front of me, and 5 parties waiting before me). I finish my ride at 2:40pm, but now I have until 3:30pm before I can go on my next attraction with DAS. I can go into One Man's Dream or maybe join the queue for Lights, Motor, Action!

Under current DAS rules, I'd get my Return Time at 2pm. Then return at 3:30pm, wait the extra 30 mins in the Wheelie Line to ride, and get out at 4:10pm. I've now spent longer than any guest to do the same thing.

(People really need to understand that if one has a disability that affects boarding, there is always extra time allotted to for every attraction. The mythical FOTL pass abuse was for folks who have no boarding issues.)

Also this system would allow me to get on TSM in the last hour DHS is open. Currently, CMs have been refusing to give Return Times because they'd be after the park closes. That's decidedly unfair to disabled DAS guests because everyone in Standby is allowed to ride as long as they're in the line before the park closes.

 

[Hopediamant]

Ok so if I understand this proposed system you'd be flipping it around to put the wait time at the end of the ride instead of the beginning. The benefit is that you're not starting your day with a wait and you'll be able to ride something at the end of the day when CMs are proving reluctant to give Return Times (i.e. in the last hour a park is open).

No I don't find that unfair to non-DAS people. You're still taking the same amount of time to do an attraction. The extra time for waiting is taken at the end and prohibits you from getting on something until you have completed that wait.

One thing I found potentially unfair at DAS is that it does not account for the additional wait one encounters when using a wheelchair-accessible vehicle. Since there are so few of those it is common to encounter a line that can take another 20 mins or so above and beyond what a non-wheelchair car user encounters. This system will include that wait in it's post-ride Return Time.

Example: I go to TSM at 2pm when there is a 90 min wait. I'm admitted into the FP line and then wait for the wheelchair vehicle another 30 mins to board (6 mins allotted for each party in front of me, and 5 parties waiting before me). I finish my ride at 2:40pm, but now I have until 3:30pm before I can go on my next attraction with DAS. I can go into One Man's Dream or maybe join the queue for Lights, Motor, Action!

Under current DAS rules, I'd get my Return Time at 2pm. Then return at 3:30pm, wait the extra 30 mins in the Wheelie Line to ride, and get out at 4:10pm. I've now spent longer than any guest to do the same thing.

(People really need to understand that if one has a disability that affects boarding, there is always extra time allotted to for every attraction. The mythical FOTL pass abuse was for folks who have no boarding issues.)

Also this system would allow me to get on TSM in the last hour DHS is open. Currently, CMs have been refusing to give Return Times because they'd be after the park closes. That's decidedly unfair to disabled DAS guests because everyone in Standby is allowed to ride as long as they're in the line before the park closes.

And those without a GAC waited over twenty minutes extra at every attraction because on 50.000 guests there were 20.000 GAC users.
No matter how this is put in a velvet jacket this whole GAC/DAS use has to be reduced drastically or the whole system will collapse.

 

[KPeveler]

The biggest problem I see with all the cards is getting the castmembers to actually listen to your needs when you are using a wheelchair. They just automatically decide that the only accommodation needed is wheelchair seating. I have had that happen too many times to count. Power wheelchair. Ok, right over there. No I need the interpreter area. No wheelchairs go here. Even got ripped a new one at Tough to be a Bug when I requested captioning in addition to being in my wheelchair. ANd was mocked for using sign language

I think I would have actually just parked my chair in the middle of the way until a supervisor came to apologize for the other CMs idiocy.

I have had to make friends with CMs at all the shows in DL just so I can be in the interpreter area with my wheelchair - I am learning sign, and have family members who are losing their hearing (and it turns out I may as well, we don't know), and I often travel with people who need the interpreter. There is actually a spot for Magical Map that I don't even think was planned until someone asked how a person in a wheelchair will see the interpreters.

I have discovered the best way in my case is simply not to acknowledge the wheelchair. If they do say something about it, I say that the wheelchair can do nothing for my dysautonomia (I put it in simpler words than that).

I also explain what will happen IN THEIR LINE. I had a friend ask for a DAS right after me (same problems and even worse in terms of dealing with SoCal heat), and I got mine no problem and she had issues (with the same CM). Listening to her and others, I have discovered that when people say that "such and such" will cause fainting/seizures/meltdowns/etc and then "we have to leave the park" or "I have to go to the hospital" - that has nothing to do with how you wait IN THE LINE.

My best suggestion, if you have issues in addition to or that cannot be met only by wheelchair use, don't bring it up, and explain what will happen in their line. "This things that happens in your line causes me to do this undesirable thing in your line."

When it comes to changes to the DAS, I am not sure what to suggest. I do know that having more CMs need to keep track of how long wait times were when I entered the ride (I have seen times go from 5 to 45 mins in the blink of an eye after fireworks) is going to end up with people getting annoyed. Guests will argue that they waited longer than the standby time (which can happen), or other such problems. The reason the CMs at the kiosks use the app (that guests can use) is to avoid such problems.

Right now I am thinking of the exit of most rides in Fantasyland or continuous loading rides (Mansion, Pirates, Buzz) in DISNEYLAND. What I am about to say is usually true for WDW rides too, but I wanted to be specific. There is ONE person at the ride exit (which is where guests with wheelchairs board and all guests exit). And even at the "bigger" attractions, each CM present has a very specific task. The person at Fantasyland, in order to load me (wheelchair guest) is only allowed to take her hands off the ride control console once a vehicle stop is in place (nothing moves in the boarding area while she gets me in).

Even when guests disembark, the CM is not allowed to take her hand off the control panel. It is actually part of the rules - she may wave a guest off with one hand, but the other remains on the panel at all times. When CMs change position, the new CM will come up to the old CM and put his hands onto the control panel before the old CM is allowed to move to her new position in the attraction.

I know that CMs sometimes do other things - but this is what the rule is supposed to be. And also, the guest who is working the secondary control panel at the guest exit of Splash Mountain (the one by the logs, not the one outside where the single rider/wheelchair entrance was) has no clue what the stand-by time is. Some rides are just too big and there are too many positions (many of which guests do not even see) for the person who rotates around to know the stand-by time when you boarded the ride.

There would need to be extra people there for the purpose of writing the times at the ride exits, and I am just not sure how that is supposed to work. I can say, after years of going to Disneyland and being married into a CM family (my wife worked Splash in DL), I cannot see the CMs at ride exit being able to stop and write down times. I am not even sure how they are going to be doing it in WDW.

 

[KPeveler]

This thread has some good ideas, and I encourage people to write to Disney with ideas and experiences.

However, there will be NO judging of who needs a DAS, wheelchair, ECV, or other aide, especially based on sweeping generalizations. None of us know the whole story of others here, and saying entire categories of people are faking or undeserving because of a personal prejudice will not be tolerated. Not on this thread, nor on any other on the disABILITIES forum.

If people cannot comply by these rules, this thread will have to be closed.

 

[WantToGoNow]

My thoughts . If you can go on space mtn. You are not handicapped.

Seriously?

 

[disney david]

I think I would have actually just parked my chair in the middle of the way until a supervisor came to apologize for the other CMs idiocy.

I have had to make friends with CMs at all the shows in DL just so I can be in the interpreter area with my wheelchair - I am learning sign, and have family members who are losing their hearing (and it turns out I may as well, we don't know), and I often travel with people who need the interpreter. There is actually a spot for Magical Map that I don't even think was planned until someone asked how a person in a wheelchair will see the interpreters.

I have discovered the best way in my case is simply not to acknowledge the wheelchair. If they do say something about it, I say that the wheelchair can do nothing for my dysautonomia (I put it in simpler words than that).

I also explain what will happen IN THEIR LINE. I had a friend ask for a DAS right after me (same problems and even worse in terms of dealing with SoCal heat), and I got mine no problem and she had issues (with the same CM). Listening to her and others, I have discovered that when people say that "such and such" will cause fainting/seizures/meltdowns/etc and then "we have to leave the park" or "I have to go to the hospital" - that has nothing to do with how you wait IN THE LINE.

My best suggestion, if you have issues in addition to or that cannot be met only by wheelchair use, don't bring it up, and explain what will happen in their line. "This things that happens in your line causes me to do this undesirable thing in your line."

When it comes to changes to the DAS, I am not sure what to suggest. I do know that having more CMs need to keep track of how long wait times were when I entered the ride (I have seen times go from 5 to 45 mins in the blink of an eye after fireworks) is going to end up with people getting annoyed. Guests will argue that they waited longer than the standby time (which can happen), or other such problems. The reason the CMs at the kiosks use the app (that guests can use) is to avoid such problems.

Right now I am thinking of the exit of most rides in Fantasyland or continuous loading rides (Mansion, Pirates, Buzz) in DISNEYLAND. What I am about to say is usually true for WDW rides too, but I wanted to be specific. There is ONE person at the ride exit (which is where guests with wheelchairs board and all guests exit). And even at the "bigger" attractions, each CM present has a very specific task. The person at Fantasyland, in order to load me (wheelchair guest) is only allowed to take her hands off the ride control console once a vehicle stop is in place (nothing moves in the boarding area while she gets me in).

Even when guests disembark, the CM is not allowed to take her hand off the control panel. It is actually part of the rules - she may wave a guest off with one hand, but the other remains on the panel at all times. When CMs change position, the new CM will come up to the old CM and put his hands onto the control panel before the old CM is allowed to move to her new position in the attraction.

I know that CMs sometimes do other things - but this is what the rule is supposed to be. And also, the guest who is working the secondary control panel at the guest exit of Splash Mountain (the one by the logs, not the one outside where the single rider/wheelchair entrance was) has no clue what the stand-by time is. Some rides are just too big and there are too many positions (many of which guests do not even see) for the person who rotates around to know the stand-by time when you boarded the ride.

There would need to be extra people there for the purpose of writing the times at the ride exits, and I am just not sure how that is supposed to work. I can say, after years of going to Disneyland and being married into a CM family (my wife worked Splash in DL), I cannot see the CMs at ride exit being able to stop and write down times. I am not even sure how they are going to be doing it in WDW.

That a good idea in theory and the cm should be fired for more then one reason but doing that their no swing hey will call a supervisor or manager. They may call security and turn it around and say your being difficult and refusing to comply and making it unsafe for them to perform their job. Which will get you in trouble more Then cm because now they show you are the one being difficult. I would go to another cm and ask to speak to a manager or if I see one go to them even if it a another cm in a different department they can get you a a manager.


I no way say the cm was right I think the cm that made the comment in both times unless it happened at the same ride. And the cms standing near them the leads and managers should all be fired. That would send a huge message to the rest of the cms that you make rude comments to guest with disabilities you be fired and make he managers make sure hey do their job in making sure they keep a eye on the cms.

 

[mistysue]

I guess my issue is that (at least at WDW) this does not split your wait, it eliminates it. You enter immediately, wait 5 mins in fp line, ride for 5 mins, then proceed to next activity. If you alternate long wait/short wait lines, you dont even have downtime unless you go during a crazy busy week. When discussing non-physical disabilities It provides immediate gratification to items that cost the non-disabled hours.

I think its clear the issue is that there need to be a different system for physical vs. Non-physical disabilities. Skip every line is not fair, completely separate line for different vehicle is at least better.

 

[DisneyNutMary]

Um, assuming your child is verbal and nonautistic, I am quite sure it is easier.

Autistic or nonautistic, have you ever stood outside Dumbo with a stubborn three year old who did not understand why he can't go on right now?
I haven't walked in your shoes, you haven't walked in mine, don't assume easier if you haven't lived it, because I certainly don't assume anything about your situation.

 

[DisneyNutMary]

Just curious Does that mean your not happy with the way the current DAS works too then? Since the DAS holders are still at an advantage of not having to wait in a line?

Actually, I am quite happy with the explanations of how the DAS works. I haven't seen it first hand yet, but from what I read, if you and I approach an attraction at the same time, you standby, me with DAS, the system is designed to have us board at more or less that same time. Now, I say "designed to" because we all know that things work so much better in theory than in fact. While I wait nearby with my DAS, I can take care of my child's very difficult bathroom needs, feeding, or shopping. I doubt the playing field will ever be even- there will always be those whose needs are so complex, that even the GAC way, their day was often difficult and short.

 

[infopurposesonly]

Autistic or nonautistic, have you ever stood outside Dumbo with a stubborn three year old who did not understand why he can't go on right now?
I haven't walked in your shoes, you haven't walked in mine, don't assume easier if you haven't lived it, because I certainly don't assume anything about your situation.

Actually, I've lived it. One child with no significant medical issues, the other with very serious medical issues as well as autism. Trust me, it's easier with the child who has no medical issues.