Kids sports/extra curriculars and $$$

[sam_gordon]

I really have and want no say in a private club. I'm just saying that a club having scholarship athletes doesn't solve the problem or strike me as charitable. That's just my opinion on that one though.

So it's "bad" that talented low income kids can't participate in high cost sports, but clubs that make allowances to help those kids participate isn't good either? I'm confused.

Does it solve the problem? No. But I'm not sure what would.

 

[Magical2017]

Amen!

I know parents all swear their kids are oh-so-passionate about their sport or activity, but when you force kids to leave most other activities at age 8 or 9 or 10, it sure seems like they're missing out on trying a whole lot of cool things.

They can definitely miss out on other things. We do let YDS continue with both travel soccer and baseball, but I also want to limit tons of evening practices so ask them to choose one activity each season. It can be a different activity or continuing with the same activity. The rule is that if you sign up, you finish that season but then can move on. The boys keep choosing travel soccer. I feel they may be missing out on some other activities by participating in the same sport (YDS gave up basketball for soccer), but by limiting it to one sport they are gaining other things (like family time and free time to play with friends).

I think ODS is ready to move on from soccer but has no idea what he wants to do. That is fine--his school has a huge list of clubs and activities. I am kind of tired of sports, tbh. Parents can act really crazy. We have witnessed parents cursing at one another, booing children, insulting refs, coaches getting thrown out of games, etc. Sports should be fun and about the kids. Adults should set the example, not behave like jerks. ODS used to be in scouts and we never had this type of problem. He gave up scouts for sports.

 

[Boardwalk Jedi]

So it's "bad" that talented low income kids can't participate in high cost sports, but clubs that make allowances to help those kids participate isn't good either? I'm confused.

Does it solve the problem? No. But I'm not sure what would.

I didn't say it was bad. I'm just saying it's bandaid...and not a very good one. I'm not sure what would solve the problem either. In my idealistic little world, I'd just hope some people would stop playing the game (no pun intended). Some have, but it's a small portion.

 

[soccerdad72]

I wrote a little last year about my son and travel soccer. When his coach demanded that he drop other activities and made winter indoor leagues and summer training mandatory, we gave DS the option of staying (and said we'd pay the crazy fees for all of that), but made sure he realized the opportunity cost to quitting. He was 9 at the time.
He chose to quit, and will be playing on a low-pressure middle school soccer team in the fall, and has enjoyed trying out flag football this spring - something he wouldn't have been able to do if he stayed in travel soccer.

Our soccer club makes a point of telling parents that they aren't opposed to kids playing other sports, but reiterate that missing practices and games for other sports potentially may limit the ability of the kid from getting opportunities to play with the higher level teams. Granted, in the case of the club my son's with right now, there are like 45 boys in their age group, so they have three teams, one that plays at a national level, one plays regionally (3-4 state radius) and one that plays mostly locally. Not every club is that size (or, for that matter, not every age group within our own club), so that's not always an option for everyone.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Kids sports and extra curriculars, how much is too much? How much do you spend annually on your child's sports or other extra curricular activities.

I have two kids - my oldest is involved in a very affordable team sport, season runs from Early Fall - late Spring, the cost for the team is under $200, everyone uses the same standard equipment that is affordable and the cost for each competition is $50 or less and in general there are only 4-5 competitions a year. She also sings in a children's choir which is more expensive, but still reasonable and again runs from September - April. And finally both kids are involved in scouts which is very inexpensive. The total for all her activities is well under $2000 a year.

My youngest is getting older, has been doing gymnastics for a couple of years now, just a recreational class once a week. Recently she was asked to try out for the competitive team. I called to ask for more information, including information on pricing and it's high IMO. The first year is pre-team - 4 hours a week, year round, $170 a month. Expensive, but do-able, we could swing this.

However, after that first year on pre-team, they are expected to continue onto the competitive team where the price goes up to $255 a month, the commitment goes up to 9 hours a week and then there are meet fees on top of the $255 a month to the tune of $1300 a year. Plus I assume fees for leotards and uniforms and travel to competitions. Over 4K a year.

I hesitate to say we could not afford it, but I will say it is way more than I am willing to spend on a 10 year old. She enjoys gymnastics, but she is not a future olympian.

And that got me to thinking - what do people spend on their kids sports? What is "reasonable" for your family? My kids have never played "typical" kid sports such as rec soccer or t-ball, let alone competitive travel teams. What do these things cost? Is 4K a year for competitive gymnastics in line or out of line for other competitive/travel level sports?

I had to re-read the OP there was so much going on in this thread.

My DD did gymnastics until she was about 10 and wanted to stop, then she took guitar lessons after that. I think the gymnastics was less expensive than the guitar lessons, which ran about $25/wk.

DS played all the typical Rec sports our hometown offered, but at around age 11, he wanted to concentrate mainly on one as he liked it best and was pretty good at it. He continued to play Rec and travel (and later HS and American Legion), but there was not much offered in terms of growth, with few to no practices and broken down fields, lots of favoritism and infighting, etc. Around that time, sort of what Sam alluded to, a group of people decided to start their own group with year round facilities, instruction, better coaching and leadership, rules, etc. DS was fortunate it was there at the right time for him. So he was part of all of those for many years, and later broke off from some when schedules conflicted, so as to be fair to everyone (players get hurt when others don't show up). Cost for the private group ranged from $800 to $1400/yr in the time he was involved and we felt it was well worth it for what he got out of it. He did have to buy equipment and such but not every year. Travel expenses were on us, too, but we always traveled as a family all over NE, NY/NJ/PA and we had a great time exploring and having fun, so, again, it was worth it to us. The years go by so fast but this kept us close as a family.

Funny thing, in college we are still paying around the same costs, as much of the team travel costs are gotten through fundraising. We also travel to FL for spring tournament so that adds to our costs, but again, it's a fun family trip and we enjoy it.

I do agree with some of the "Olympics" sentiments, especially this one, as I agree 100%.

I don't understand the "future Olympian" comment. I know competitive gymnastics is a well-known sport for girls across the country. Of course, all of those parents don't see their child going to the Olympics. Because she isn't going to the Olympics it's not worth the money? If she enjoys, is willing to commit to that level of training, and you can afford it, why not? It will teach her a lot about discipline and hard work. She will make amazing memories with her friends!

 

[GingerPilot]

To answer some questions, yes my youngest enjoys gymnastics - but do I think she has the drive to be on a competitive team committing many hours a week to practice? No, not at this time. She's just turned 9, is very much an immature kid who just wants to play. I wish there was some sort of in between level - something between a once a week beginner level class and an ultra expensive, large commitment competitive team - a rec league gymnastics team if you will, but that doesn't seem to exist unfortunately. I'm sure there is something else out there that she would enjoy just as much as gymnastics, but struggling to figure out what it might be.

See if your gym or another gym in your area offer an XCEL program. From your description it is exactly what you're looking for. More info on here https://usagym.org/pages/women/pages/xcel.html

 

[Boardwalk Jedi]

See if your gym or another gym in your area offer an XCEL program. From your description it is exactly what you're looking for. More info on here https://usagym.org/pages/women/pages/xcel.html

Or an AAU program.

 

[Lilacs4Me]

Wow. You read WAY too much into a simple statement. I never said anyone was lazy. I'm just pointing out that people complaining there's no low cost option are free to start their own. How do you think ANY of these leagues (at whatever level) started? Someone saw an unfulfilled need and did something about it. It's been done multiple times in every sport across the country. And I never said it was easy. But if there's no cheap soccer (or baseball, or basketball, or football, drama club, band, chess, tiddlywinks, or whatever) league, go ahead an organize one. Talk to your community's Parks & Rec department. Maybe they'll underwrite the insurance and they just need an organizer. But if everyone stays on the sideline (no pun intended) and simply says "it's a shame there's not another option", nothing will change.

And FWIW, you obviously don't know what you're talking about regarding my kids.

Yup...DH and I have been involved in two start-up football and cheer leagues. For the first, we brought our kids into the league the first year it started, and DH coached, then the 2nd-4th years, we both coached and participated on the board as non-executive members. We watched and learned.

Then, our own town's HS coach was dying to have a feeder league of our own, and since we were well known for our involvement with the sister-town's program, we were two of the people who were asked to help start it. This is our 4th year being executive board members. We have been there since the very first meeting where we met the rest of the folks interested in getting this started for our town. We created the by-laws with the help of a lawyer and our parent league, we chose the uniforms, practice space/time, insurance company....4th of july parade t-shirts....which helmets to buy...what we sell in the concession stand...etc, etc. There are 10 of us on the board, that do 90% of everything for the league. All volunteer, we all work full time, and we are all parents.

My son's lacrosse league was started through the park district, ran with the backing of the rec dept for a few years and now has grown enough to branch out on their own as the beginnings of a "travel" league (thank god DS13 ages out after next year because we don't do "travel" sports!) There is a small group of parents that run this league as well.

It's not impossible by any means!

 

[Colleen27]

You stated that there are no cheap sports or activities. I am pointing out that high school sports are cheap...free actually, unless you are pay to play.

Except that in areas where the club sports/private coaching/intensive training model of youth sports is commonplace, kids who didn't have those things at the youth/developmental level don't have a prayer of actually making high school teams. That is the one and only reason I even have an opinion on what other parents spend on their kids' sports - because it creates a climate where even the kids on the girls' JV soccer team have 5+ years of travel soccer under their belts, and a kid who has never played before or only played in a summer rec program simply doesn't have the option of playing HS ball.

In my area, there is a school consolidation plan currently being debated that would have a blue collar town sharing a high school with the more affluent neighboring community, and that's something a lot of parents are concerned about - youth sports in the lower-income community are largely rec level feeder programs for the high school teams, run with the help of varsity student volunteers, but in the other town, there are high-performing travel programs in quite a few sports. And the fear is that, in those sports (soccer, baseball/softball, swim, lacrosse), kids from the lower income community won't have much chance of making teams when they're trying out with kids who have years of private coaching and travel leagues under their belt. (An argument that has both merit and absurdity, because while it likely has some truth to it, it suggests that parents are prioritizing athletics over the expanded academic opportunities that the combined school would offer.)

They still aren't free. Participation costs money. Equipment fees (basketball shoes and football cleats are pricey) plus food money for away games, etc. We went to pay to play in my district a few years ago and the fees are low, like $100 a sport I think and it is capped at $200 per kid a year $400 per family I think. A lot of people were up in arms about it claiming it would keep low income kids from being able to play. Please. The basketball shoes alone cost more than that. I doubt the $100 fee was keeping anyone from being able to play. Even on school teams that is a fraction of what you're already paying anyway.

I suppose it would depend on the demographics of your district, but it absolutely did make a difference here. When the sports boosters funded a pay-to-play waiver program for students receiving free/reduced lunch, they saw a 10% bump in the number of students signing up for sports. Some were single-sport athletes who added an off-season sport that they couldn't previously afford, and others were total newcomers to MS/HS athletics. Because there are ways to manage those equipment costs - asking for gear as Christmas/birthday gifts, buying used, taking advantage of the booster hand-me-down program for cleats, bats, etc. - and students can pack food for away games, but there's no way around that pay-to-play fee.

And just as an aside, between my three kids we've survived 5 seasons of baseball, 2 of basketball, 7 of football, 13 of softball, 4 of cross country, 3 of track, and 5 of volleyball. None of them required $100+ shoes.

 

[diser_fam]

My DD has taken guitar lessons since she was in 3rd grade. She is now a Junior in High School. Not sure what we started out paying, but now it is $25 for a 30 minute lesson and she has one lesson per week. We just bought her a new guitar, which is the 3rd she's owned. Other than that, not much expense associated with her hobby. In fact, during the past 12 months, she has played in several places where she has actually made a little money for herself. She played Rec softball and some AAU basketball when she was younger. She just wasn't into those sports. She does some choir events through her High School and some local theater, both are minimal cost.

My son is 14 and plays High School basketball, baseball and golf. Only costs there are traveling to games, tickets and eating out. His real passion is golf. My wife and I play and he used to tag along and hit the ball around when he was younger. As he got older, better and more into it, due to the fact that I am not very good at golf, I found a local youth instructor in our area. I have a swing that works for me (sometimes), but certainly couldn't instruct him. He's been with his coach for about 3 years. He plays in several different spring and summer tours that get him exposed to tournament play and helps him prepare for the High School season which is in the fall. There are some costs associated with that, but he loves it, works hard at it, and the rest of us love watching him play. I will miss it when it's over.

The thing with the guitar and golf is that they have no end date. My son knows baseball and basketball will come to an end when he graduates High School, but he can play golf until he's 80.

 

[star72232]

My kids (all 4 of them) do TKD. We have a family discount at our school. $800/year for the first child, $600/year for the second, $400/year for the third and $200/year for each additional child. My oldest also gets a discount because she has a 2nd degree black belt, so instead of $800 we are only charged $600 for her. $1800 for the year for 4 kids is about as good as sports get!

They do need some equipment (each set is about $120, but they last for years, and you can by individual pieces, so no huge outlay). New uniforms occasionally ($40). If they decide to do a tournament it's about $50/kid (we haven't done any in a couple of years, although my DD is now refereeing at tournaments and actually makes money).

 

[Lilacs4Me]

Thought I should offer this experience; I am in SoCal and my kids play lacrosse. It's still "new" enough out here that below High School age you pretty much have to play on the club team closest to you, but then once they reach High School you can ONLY play for the High School team. That's due to CIF rules and the fact that just enough High Schools have teams now that there aren't enough kids to fill club teams with kids that don't play on a High School team. My son actually moved from a small private school to a larger public school so he could play.

The advice that has been offered, "talk to your high school", is exactly how the sport got started at my son's high school. There is a parent (yes, just one) who is a couple years ahead of us that made it her mission to pester and bug the school to start a team until they did. It was a LONG road, filled with a lot of "no's", but she did it! God Bless this woman, we are all so thankful she put in the effort. The sport is not "free". There are equipment costs of course, but we also each chip in roughly $200 per kid per season to pay the coaches. Yes, you heard that right, the school does not pay the lacrosse coaches, and frankly the money we put in is not a great paycheck, but the coaches do it out of love for the sport. We;d put in more but the coaches would not accept it.

One other thing; if you do decide to be "that parent" that goes to the trouble of demanding a school field a team, don't forget the girls! They deserve a team and a chance to play too.

Same here! My son's friend bugged the school since freshman year to start a lacrosse team. He got his wish his Junior year (and that's how DS got into it). The first two years it was considered a "club" and a group of parents basically ran it with a school faculty sponsor. Practices were a mish-mash of here and there and everywhere locations, the sponsor/coaches reached out to different schools to see if they would be willing to play us as a "scrimmage", and we were responsible for getting our kids to the games and back.

Last spring, after two years as a club, Lacrosse went up for vote by the school board to make it an official school sport for both mens and womens lacrosse. I spoke at the board meeting in favor of it, and added that my DD and younger son were looking forward to playing for the HS team, and oldest DS18 was a current senior that was playing, and how much my kids and their teammates loved it. It was voted in as an official IHSA-sanctioned sport for this year! It was $300 to play when it was club, now it's the normal $200/$150/etc pay to play fee. And now they get bussing, field time, and home games in the stadium like everyone else.

DD14 is a freshman and is playing on the first ever official girls team for the school - they are undefeated after 9 games so far and doing great!

 

[soccerdad72]

My kids (all 4 of them) do TKD. We have a family discount at our school. $800/year for the first child, $600/year for the second, $400/year for the third and $200/year for each additional child. My oldest also gets a discount because she has a 2nd degree black belt, so instead of $800 we are only charged $600 for her. $1800 for the year for 4 kids is about as good as sports get!

They do need some equipment (each set is about $120, but they last for years, and you can by individual pieces, so no huge outlay). New uniforms occasionally ($40). If they decide to do a tournament it's about $50/kid (we haven't done any in a couple of years, although my DD is now refereeing at tournaments and actually makes money).

Do you pay for belt testing as well? My older son did TKD when he was younger and made it as far as 2nd degree black belt, but we found it pretty expensive overall. Aside from the tuition, the belt tests (about every 6 months) were an extra fee on top of the other expenses.

 

[Boardwalk Jedi]

Yup...DH and I have been involved in two start-up football and cheer leagues. For the first, we brought our kids into the league the first year it started, and DH coached, then the 2nd-4th years, we both coached and participated on the board as non-executive members. We watched and learned.

Then, our own town's HS coach was dying to have a feeder league of our own, and since we were well known for our involvement with the sister-town's program, we were two of the people who were asked to help start it. This is our 4th year being executive board members. We have been there since the very first meeting where we met the rest of the folks interested in getting this started for our town. We created the by-laws with the help of a lawyer and our parent league, we chose the uniforms, practice space/time, insurance company....4th of july parade t-shirts....which helmets to buy...what we sell in the concession stand...etc, etc. There are 10 of us on the board, that do 90% of everything for the league. All volunteer, we all work full time, and we are all parents.

My son's lacrosse league was started through the park district, ran with the backing of the rec dept for a few years and now has grown enough to branch out on their own as the beginnings of a "travel" league (thank god DS13 ages out after next year because we don't do "travel" sports!) There is a small group of parents that run this league as well.

It's not impossible by any means!

The important part is to keep the basic level intact and prioritize before the travel teams. If your bylaws have covered that - well done.

 

[sam_gordon]

Except that in areas where the club sports/private coaching/intensive training model of youth sports is commonplace, kids who didn't have those things at the youth/developmental level don't have a prayer of actually making high school teams. That is the one and only reason I even have an opinion on what other parents spend on their kids' sports - because it creates a climate where even the kids on the girls' JV soccer team have 5+ years of travel soccer under their belts, and a kid who has never played before or only played in a summer rec program simply doesn't have the option of playing HS ball.

I understand the complaint, but lets be honest... there is a limited number of roster spots (varies by sport). Now, maybe you add multiple JV teams, or I know there are also teams that had Freshman, JV, and Varsity (FB at my HS was like that). But there's only 'x' amount of minutes to be played in games.

 

[Boardwalk Jedi]

Except that in areas where the club sports/private coaching/intensive training model of youth sports is commonplace, kids who didn't have those things at the youth/developmental level don't have a prayer of actually making high school teams. That is the one and only reason I even have an opinion on what other parents spend on their kids' sports - because it creates a climate where even the kids on the girls' JV soccer team have 5+ years of travel soccer under their belts, and a kid who has never played before or only played in a summer rec program simply doesn't have the option of playing HS ball.

In my area, there is a school consolidation plan currently being debated that would have a blue collar town sharing a high school with the more affluent neighboring community, and that's something a lot of parents are concerned about - youth sports in the lower-income community are largely rec level feeder programs for the high school teams, run with the help of varsity student volunteers, but in the other town, there are high-performing travel programs in quite a few sports. And the fear is that, in those sports (soccer, baseball/softball, swim, lacrosse), kids from the lower income community won't have much chance of making teams when they're trying out with kids who have years of private coaching and travel leagues under their belt. (An argument that has both merit and absurdity, because while it likely has some truth to it, it suggests that parents are prioritizing athletics over the expanded academic opportunities that the combined school would offer.)



.

Ugh. If either of the schools are a decent size, there's just no reason to consolidate. We have a few towns here with two high schools in them and some people always insist on combining them so they can be a "sports powerhouse". They don't even think that half the kids won't be playing anymore.

 

[soccerdad72]

Ugh. If either of the schools are a decent size, there's just no reason to consolidate. We have a few towns here with two high schools in them and some people always insist on combining them so they can be a "sports powerhouse". They don't even think that half the kids won't be playing anymore.

Most school consolidations are not being proposed for sports-related reasons, but due to lack of funding and budget to keep two schools open.

 

[Boardwalk Jedi]

I understand the complaint, but lets be honest... there is a limited number of roster spots (varies by sport). Now, maybe you add multiple JV teams, or I know there are also teams that had Freshman, JV, and Varsity (FB at my HS was like that). But there's only 'x' amount of minutes to be played in games.

So, "tough luck" to the kids who can't afford it? So many sports heroes over the years would never make it if money were a factor back then. Hope Solo (for all her faults) has constantly said she never would have gotten to the top level if soccer were as expensive then as it is now.

 

[Boardwalk Jedi]

Most school consolidations are not being proposed for sports-related reasons, but due to lack of funding and budget to keep two schools open.

You'd be surprised...for those too cheap to cover two high schools (even though they are needed), they'll throw out any excuse and that one actually works on some people.

 

[sam_gordon]

The important part is to keep the basic level intact and prioritize before the travel teams. If your bylaws have covered that - well done.

I don't think rec OR travel should be "prioritized". Why is one "better" than the other?