"Ladies and Gentlemen" becoming an outdated term?

[bopper]

If you are addressing both ladies and gentlemen then there is no need for neutrality, you're covering everyone.

Unless you do not feel you are a lady or a gentleman...if you prefer the pronouns "they/them"

 

[LSUmiss]

I think the problem is that it's a mix of the two so it's really impossible to say that something is all "nature" or all "nurture". You seem very insistent that your child likes "boy" things because he's a boy. While I agree that children have natural preferences, that doesn't mean that everything he does that's "stereotypically masculine" is BECAUSE he's a boy. There are plenty of 18mo old girls who naturally enjoy all the same things your son does.

If we are to go with the logic that your son likes throwing balls and whatever else because he's a boy, then it would follow that a female child who also enjoys those things must "really" be a boy too. Obviously I recognize that you don't really believe that, but that's what your posts seem to imply when you keep repeating that he likes all these things "because he's a boy" and that absolutely nothing could possibly have influenced his preferences other than his biological sex.

I think in general most people on here probably agree with you-- there are some behaviors and preferences that kids are born with, and that the majority of boys or girls prefer most (but certainly not all) of the things that are traditionally associated with their gender. It's just the way that some of your posts have been phrased I think makes it seem like your views are more extreme than they actually are (like what I posted above)


I too was surprised that nurture was not the only factor, but in some different ways than you've experienced (which is probably why I don't feel as strongly as you about the gender part as you do). My oldest child was extremely well behaved-- could attend college lectures for hours at a time with no snacks/toys/distractions, never let go of my hand anywhere, was very "ladylike", etc. I could have assumed this was due to my fantastic parenting skills or the fact that she was a girl, but my second girl was completely different-- she could climb up anything, would run away from you in a store and never even look back, etc. There were definitely "natural" differences between the two, but those were differences in personality, not differences based on their sex.

Several of my friends over the years have had extremely wild boys. While there may be some "natural" influence in what they are drawn to, their behavior is definitely influenced by nurture and the parents are constantly focused on how every single thing the kids do or say is because "they're boys". It's honestly insulting to me because my son has never behaved in the way that all these adults seem to believe is "normal" for boys. I've even had people say, "Well, DS isn't a typical/normal/whatever boy" and imply that there's something wrong with my son because he is well behaved and doesn't enjoy sports. Perhaps their sons would have other interests too, but they don't allow them into their homes because "those are for girls".

And, of course, all of our opinions are colored by our own experiences. You seem to be saying that it’s not typical behavior for boys b/c your boy was not like that & your friends are just bad parents. I don’t know your friends, but I would welcome a boy with less stereotypical “wild” behavior b/c I find it to be a challenge to rein in. Perhaps your friends did try early on & decided they were fighting a losing battle. IF being “wild” is more typical, then I would view your son’s difference as a positive thing. Perhaps, your friends view it as you got luck as there is always a little bit of luck in how our kids turn out. But, none of us knows for sure & our opinions are based on our own experiences.

 

[LSUmiss]

I think that the more educated the area, and wealthier the area (these tend to overlap if you look at tables and charts), the more tolerant folks are. Therefore, folks are more comfortable coming out. I think differences are more accepted and less feared. Do your schools have policies regarding transgender individuals and bathrooms/locker rooms? Ours have for almost 10 years now.

Tolerance & having more ppl identify as such are 2 different things. I live in NOLA. It’s about as tolerant as you can get as far as caring what other ppl do. I have no idea about school policies. As stated earlier in the thread, I also think it becomes the trendy thing to do in some areas so maybe that’s why it’s more concentrated in some places.

 

[mjkacmom]

Tolerance & having more ppl identify as such are 2 different things. I live in NOLA. It’s about as tolerant as you can get as far as caring what other ppl do. I have no idea about school policies. As stated earlier in the thread, I also think it becomes the trendy thing to do in some areas so maybe that’s why it’s more concentrated in some places.

So you think women take hormones and have their breasts removed, go through years of psychological testing and hormones, to be trendy?
https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2015/03/83531/transgender-rights-by-state

 

[LSUmiss]

So you think women take hormones and have their breasts removed, go through years of psychological testing and hormones, to be trendy?
https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2015/03/83531/transgender-rights-by-state

No but as discussed earlier in the thread there are those ppl who do go through all of that, but it’s far less than those who just claim to be in their teen years.
And NOLA & the rest of state of Louisiana are very different. Not sure if that was the point of your link?

 

[mjkacmom]

No but as discussed earlier in the thread there are those ppl who do go through all of that, but it’s far less than those who just claim to be in their teen years.
And NOLA & the rest of state of Louisiana are very different. Not sure if that was the point of your link?

The point in my link that I think depending on location, there will be more or less going public, based on public acceptance and tolerance.

 

[LSUmiss]

The point in my link that I think depending on location, there will be more or less going public, based on public acceptance and tolerance.

Ok & I’m saying NOLA is a pretty tolerant city even though it’s in LA & I don’t know the volume of ppl you know who are transgender, but I also don’t that many teens. I’m saying it seems to be the thing to do a among teens in some areas. Clearly those who actually transition are serious about it, however.

 

[sam_gordon]

So based on the past couple of pages, I have a follow up question...

A lot of people have been talking about boys doing "boy" things and girls doing "girl" things and how each (boy/girl) may do typical "other" things (a boy might like playing with dolls and dressing up and a girl might like sports or playing in the mud). Is this what people are talking about when they refer to "genderfluid"? I was assuming it was truly a "feeling". I'm born with male genitalia and I know I'm male. What I like to do doesn't change the fact that I'm male. So does someone who is genderfluid think that just because they like things that are stereotypically liked by the other gender?

If that's the case, maybe that explains my disconnect. I don't think what you enjoy doing (whether physically or mentally) defines what gender you are. Just because a male likes playing with dolls or putting on a dress doesn't make him a girl. Just because a female likes sports and getting dirty doesn't make her a boy.

 

[handinpocket]

So you think women take hormones and have their breasts removed, go through years of psychological testing and hormones, to be trendy?
https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2015/03/83531/transgender-rights-by-state

No, they are mentally ill, IMO.

 

[tzolkin]

So based on the past couple of pages, I have a follow up question...

A lot of people have been talking about boys doing "boy" things and girls doing "girl" things and how each (boy/girl) may do typical "other" things (a boy might like playing with dolls and dressing up and a girl might like sports or playing in the mud). Is this what people are talking about when they refer to "genderfluid"? I was assuming it was truly a "feeling". I'm born with male genitalia and I know I'm male. What I like to do doesn't change the fact that I'm male. So does someone who is genderfluid think that just because they like things that are stereotypically liked by the other gender?

If that's the case, maybe that explains my disconnect. I don't think what you enjoy doing (whether physically or mentally) defines what gender you are. Just because a male likes playing with dolls or putting on a dress doesn't make him a girl. Just because a female likes sports and getting dirty doesn't make her a boy.

It's difficult to explain, but yes it's more about "feeling" and not just that you don't like doing things that are stereotypical of that gender. The stuff you're talking about-- what you wear, activities you enjoy, etc-- that's called "gender expression" and is different than gender identity. Genderfluid/non-binary/genderqueer is a question of internal personal identity.

 

[Drasticq]

I just called a lady customer at work "sir". Twice. More fool me!

 

[sam_gordon]

It's difficult to explain, but yes it's more about "feeling" and not just that you don't like doing things that are stereotypical of that gender. The stuff you're talking about-- what you wear, activities you enjoy, etc-- that's called "gender expression" and is different than gender identity. Genderfluid/non-binary/genderqueer is a question of internal personal identity.

Thanks. That's actually what I thought, but the past couple of pages confused me.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

The judge in the Dallas TX case ruled today that the father CAN have a say in the seven year old's gender and medical decisions now, after jury gave sole decision-making to mother the other day. He put a gag order on the parents going forward so not sure how much will be publicized going forward.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7611057/Judge-rules-James-Youngers-dad-say-transition.html

 

[ford family]

I just called a lady customer at work "sir". Twice. More fool me!

Probably a safe bet in B&H!

ford family

 

[DLgal]

Your right. Silently thinking something is stupid and pointless is completely different than outwardly expressing the wish that it “would just die.”

Man, you are really taking my comment personally. It's okay. I don't know you, but I'm sure your baby's gender reveal party was lovely.

I am annoyed by seeing these parties all over social media. I am not offended by them. At all. I also hate promposals, for the record. I find these types over the top attention seeking acts to be tiring.

 

[Party.Of.4-NY>>>FL]

Man, you are really taking my comment personally. It's okay. I don't know you, but I'm sure your baby's gender reveal party was lovely.

I am annoyed by seeing these parties all over social media. I am not offended by them. At all. I also hate promposals, for the record. I find these types over the top attention seeking acts to be tiring.

Have we met in real life? I get the impression you think you know me. And nope, no gender reveal parties for any of our kids.

I only quoted your post to correct another poster on here that falsely claimed:

QUOTE="tzolkin, post: 61202484, member: 172505"]
I'm one of the two posters who commented about gender reveal parties. Neither of us implied in ANY way that anyone is offended by or has a "problem with" these parties. We just both said that we PERSONALLY aren't fans of them and don't really see the point.
[/QUOTE]

I was merely pointing out that it seems very clear to me that, in wishing death upon them, you do have a problem with these parties. That’s cool. I get it. You don’t like gender reveal parties. Thank you for sharing. But it’s also obvious to me that many people do like them. I guess it just never occurred to me that someone could feel so strongly about a party that they have the freedom not to attend, read about, or pay any attention to. Especially when I consider the fact that they might bring joy to others. Learn something new every day I guess.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Unless you do not feel you are a lady or a gentleman...if you prefer the pronouns "they/them"

I rarely feel like I am a lady.

I always know that I am a woman.

 

[LSUmiss]

Have we met in real life? I get the impression you think you know me. And nope, no gender reveal parties for any of our kids.

I only quoted your post to correct another poster on here that falsely claimed:

QUOTE="tzolkin, post: 61202484, member: 172505"]
I'm one of the two posters who commented about gender reveal parties. Neither of us implied in ANY way that anyone is offended by or has a "problem with" these parties. We just both said that we PERSONALLY aren't fans of them and don't really see the point.

I was merely pointing out that it seems very clear to me that, in wishing death upon them, you do have a problem with these parties. That’s cool. I get it. You don’t like gender reveal parties. Thank you for sharing. But it’s also obvious to me that many people do like them. I guess it just never occurred to me that someone could feel so strongly about a party that they have the freedom not to attend, read about, or pay any attention to. Especially when I consider the fact that they might bring joy to others. Learn something new every day I guess.
[/QUOTE]
For some of us they have become obnoxiously ubiquitous so they’re not so easily not attended,
not read about, or not paid attention to. For me it’s not the parties themselves but that nothing is private or personal in the age of social media. Everything has to be a spectacle & personally I think that cheapens the experience, but I do recognize it’s just my opinion.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

For me it’s not the parties themselves but that nothing is private or personal in the age of social media. Everything has to be a spectacle & personally I think that cheapens the experience, but I do recognize it’s just my opinion.

Not for nothing but I know that not everyone publicizes their gender reveal parties or to the extremes that some do. Obviously that can still mean one finds them blah these days.

I've seen more pictures of "It's a girl" or "It's a boy" or "It's twins (with or without gender)" often with some artsy style done than I have of actual videos and pictures of people I know on social media for the actual party. So they may still be making it known the gender but not making a big fuss of the actual reveal. I also know people who don't disclose on social media the gender nor the name until the birth too.

 

[tzolkin]

Thanks. That's actually what I thought, but the past couple of pages confused me.

It has been pretty confusing to me too. It seems like people are saying completely contradictory things or just wacky things that I don’t think they can possibly mean literally. I think this is just a very muddy topic so it’s hard to get across what you’re actually thinking or meaning in a few words over a computer.