Mando & Grogu Movie is official

[PolymerSkywalker]

But could she have done it without his help? Regardless, the message of The Last Jedi is absolutely NOT letting the past die. Rey refuses to do so, and she is the main protagonist of the movie.

And I think that's really the issue. You wanted it to be Luke's movie - and Han's and Leia's - but it's not. It was never intended to be, nor should it have been. The new generation are the stars, like it or not.

And you don't have to like it, but that doesn't change the overall message of the movie. Rian Johnson didn't want to kill the past - Kylo Ren did. Kylo Ren is the villain, and is wrong, as proven by the themes and outcome of the film itself. You don't have to like how they got there. You can even argue about how effective the movie was in conveying it's message, but that would require actual critique and not simple derisiveness.

But I have done that with details with you multiple times. Should I go into explicit detail as to why I don’t believe the scene works for a fitting end to Luke every single time? Seems much simpler to just say it didn’t work for me.

Your only interest in seeing my details as to why it don’t work is so you can attempt to prove me wrong. You really don’t appear to have any other reason to request the details based on our prior interactions. You never once have said “huh I guess I have never thought about it like that”. You always do the same thing. I give you 20 bullet points of logic and you respond with the 3 you disagree with most and tell me how wrong I am. Never a mention of the other 17 points. Seems disingenuous to ask me for details based on how our prior interactions have transpired.

Sorry, I will shut up now.

 

[BrianL]

But I have done that with details with you multiple times. Should I go into explicit detail as to why I don’t believe the scene works for a fitting end to Luke every single time? Seems much simpler to just say it didn’t work for me.

Your only interest in seeing my details as to why it don’t work is so you can attempt to prove me wrong. You really don’t appear to have any other reason to request the details based on our prior responses. You never once have said “huh I guess I have never thought about it like that”. You always do the same thing. I give you 20 bullet points of logic and you respond with the 3 you disagree with most and tell me how I am wrong. Never a mention of the other 17 points. Seems disingenuous to ask me for details based on our prior interactions.

Sorry, I will shut up now.

I don't recall you logicially positing that the theme of the movie is to in fact "let the past die," yet you cite that quote again and again when criticizing the movie. I get that you disagree with that sentiment, but so does Rian Johnson. Can you refute that?

No, you don't have to lay out your logic every time, but when you call Like a "punk" that's going to invite pushback. Is "punk" even the right word? Kylo's a bit of a punk, but not Luke.

Anyway, you can dislike the movie, but if your reasons are debatable, well, don't be surprised when they are debated.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

I understand that, just on this topic I have given you copious amounts of details and you asking for more details seems disingenuous. Not on every topic, but this one particular topic (TLJ) yes. You like it and think it works, and I do not.

The movie has a 42% audience score meaning for 58% of the people it likely “didn’t work for them”. My views are not radical and I would argue are more commonplace in the fandom as a whole than yours are. That doesn’t negate your views in anyway, or suggest I am right. Simply put I am tired of arguments on this topic with you because I don’t believe you have these discussions in good faith.

 

[BrianL]

I understand that, just on this topic I have given you copious amounts of details and you asking for more details seems disingenuous. Not on every topic, but this one particular topic (TLJ) yes. You like it and think it works, and I do not.

The movie has a 42% audience score meaning for 58% of the people it likely “didn’t work for them”. My views are not radical and I would argue are more commonplace in the fandom as a whole than yours are. That doesn’t negate your views in anyway, or suggest I am right. Simply put I am tired of arguments on this topic with you because I don’t believe you have these discussions in good faith.

Hey, I accept that you don't like it, but I will challenge the finer points when it doesn't make sense.

It would be like someone saying, "I don't like Spaceship Earth because I hate roller coasters." It's totally fair for someone to dislike Spaceship Earth for any number of reasons, but one's feelings about roller coasters is irrelevant.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

“Let the past die, kill it if you have to”. I would say if you don’t want a line in a movie being used to describe scenes were beloved characters are killed off in less than respectful ways, that the majority of the fan base didn’t like. You probably don’t want to use a line like that in the movie.

Rian Johnson had a radical vision for this movie that presented a Luke that was so incredibly jarring and frankly unbelievable I would say that many fans rejected it. I get that you believe that grumpy old man, loser in a basement, mad at the world, abandoned all that he loved / hoped / dreamed of, dying alone from “forcing too hard” works for you. It doesn’t work for me or about 58% of the fans. It is and always will be one of the most divisive films in cinematic history. Nothing you can say or Disney can do short of a total retcon will ever change that.

No let’s move on. I hope this upcoming movie is great. Favreau gets it and I think this can be a financial winner for Disney.

 

[BrianL]

“Let the past die, kill it if you have to”. I would say if you don’t want a line in a movie being used to describe scenes were beloved characters are killed off in less than respectful ways, that the majority of the fan base didn’t like. You probably don’t want to use a line like that in the movie.

Rian Johnson had a radical vision for this movie that presented a Luke that was so incredibly jarring and frankly unbelievable I would say. I get that you believe that grumpy old man, loser in a basement, mad at the world, abandoned all that he loved / hoped / dreamed of, dying alone from “forcing too hard” works for you. It doesn’t work for me or about 58% of the fans. It is and always will be one of the most divisive films in cinematic history. Nothing you can say or Disney can do short of a total retcon will ever change that.

No let’s move on. I hope this upcoming movie is great. Favreau gets it and I think this can be a financial winner for Disney.

Again, the line was used to prove how wrong it was. It is intentionally so. It doesn't have anything to do with Luke death, which is done in service of the exact opposite ideal. Now, it's totally fair to not like that Luke died from Force projecting. It makes sense as it took a lot of exertion, but I can understand a preference for that not to have happened. Honestly, I would have saved Lukes death for Episoce IX seeing as how Carrie passed - obviously Leia was going to have a bigger rold in IX and maybe not even died. It was just too late to change course on that.

I also don't think your read on Luke is correct. He was grumpy, not not a loser nor angry. He was in fact quite serene until someone showed up to challenge his point of view - successfully I might add. I think one issue with this perception is actually in The Force Awakens. They make it seem like the legend of the missing great hero Luke Skywalker is writ large throughout the galaxy, but it's actually only been a few years. The characters are actually a bit younger than their actors due to the timeline, so they seem older. It feels like Luke has been gone for decades, but that's because WE haven't seen him on screen in that long. There is definitely a disconnect on that part, which is why more backstory is my biggest cirticism of the ST as a whole.

I know fans are calling for M&G to feature Luke or even Han, but personally I think they should avoid that. I also think they need a title change desperately to avoid corellayion with Disney+, slayer of the box-office.

 

[Suger Mag]

“Let the past die, kill it if you have to”. I would say if you don’t want a line in a movie being used to describe scenes were beloved characters are killed off in less than respectful ways, that the majority of the fan base didn’t like. You probably don’t want to use a line like that in the movie.

Rian Johnson had a radical vision for this movie that presented a Luke that was so incredibly jarring and frankly unbelievable I would say that many fans rejected it. I get that you believe that grumpy old man, loser in a basement, mad at the world, abandoned all that he loved / hoped / dreamed of, dying alone from “forcing too hard” works for you. It doesn’t work for me or about 58% of the fans. It is and always will be one of the most divisive films in cinematic history. Nothing you can say or Disney can do short of a total retcon will ever change that.

No let’s move on. I hope this upcoming movie is great. Favreau gets it and I think this can be a financial winner for Disney.

please please please. can we move on

EVERY Star Wars thread... does not matter what the topic is... Galactic Star Cruiser.... Ahsoka... Andor..... ends up with you (and usually BrianL) arguing about one movie made in 2017

Maybe at least change the title so we dont get duped into thinking it will be about anything else....

 

[BrianL]

please please please. can we move on

EVERY Star Wars thread... does not matter what the topic is... Galactic Star Cruiser.... Ahsoka... Andor..... ends up with you (and usually BrianL) arguing about one movie made in 2017

Maybe at least change the title so we dont get duped into thinking it will be about anything else....

I'm sorry. I'm not the one who brings it up. We probably do need a general Star Wars discussion thread.

 

[Suger Mag]

I'm sorry. I'm not the one who brings it up. We probably do need a general Star Wars discussion thread.

You are never going to agree. We have had them... and it is the same thing over and over, every thread.


He made it to post #5 before he responded to you to bring up his least favorite movie ever.

Yeah, I don't love the title. I was expecting this to be the movie all of the series set in this era dovetail into.

I personally don’t care about titles very much, just make the movie great.

TLJ had a great title that had many amped up to see the movie. Too bad the movie was hot garbage, so the cool title didn’t really matter much in the end.

Heck one of the best ones ever A New Hope was just called Star Wars originally.

And yes it is totally fine Polymer that you hated the movie. Your opinions are valid, but... they are no more valid than anyone who has a different opinion, and might have liked the movie.

And for the record, I liked The Last Jedi... I liked Luke's story. I liked his ending. It connected with me. Well except for that stupid casino

 

[jade1]

But could she have done it without his help?

Sorry to keep this going, but this is exactly where the division comes into play IMO and many others.

(And it is a Star Wars thread where Mando corrected the treatment of Luke to a large degree, and might even further in this movie.)

The answer is indeed No. But it's simply because these people were too stupid to simply follow the Vulptices running out the back of the cave where Rey was waiting.

Luke way easier could have use a 5 second telepathy to Leia telling her this.

 

[firefly_ris]

How much do Star Wars movies use practical effects these days? It would be fun to have a modern one done completely with practical effects and miniatures. I know that would never happen but seems fun to me. Trying to picture what that would be like with Mandalorian.

 

[jade1]

I liked it a lot more than I liked Rise of Skywalker and that stupid casino

Do you mean the stupid Canto Bight Casino in The Last Jedi? The entire 30 minutes for nothing, other than to show privilege and horse beating animal cruelty, child labor and that even any child can use the force? That one?

 

[Suger Mag]

How much do Star Wars movies use practical effects these days? It would be fun to have a modern one done completely with practical effects and miniatures. I know that would never happen but seems fun to me. Trying to picture what that would be like with Mandalorian.

pretty sure it is always "Industrial Light and Magic" that is the special effects team and I think they do still use some practical effects... but a lot is screen based... kinda of a neat clip about the special effects

 

[Suger Mag]

Do you mean the stupid Canto Bight Casino in The Last Jedi? The entire 30 minutes for nothing, other than to show privilege and horse beating animal cruelty, child labor and that even any child can use the force? That one?

blocking it out... so unneeded, made no sense and an utter waste of time.

 

[BrianL]

How much do Star Wars movies use practical effects these days? It would be fun to have a modern one done completely with practical effects and miniatures. I know that would never happen but seems fun to me. Trying to picture what that would be like with Mandalorian.

They actually do still use a lot of pracical effects combined with CG. Half the time fans cite some shoddy looking CG, it's actually a practical effect.

For the TV projects, they use a lot of CG backgrounds projected in real-time on "The Volume" but most of the props and things are physical. Andor filmed on a lot actual locations, but then altered them with some CG to make them look like Star Wars places. It's a good mix.

There was a time when CGI was cheaper than practical in many ways - like you didn't have to blow up a miniature or an actual bridge or something - but these days high-level CG animation costs significantly more.

 

[HokieRaven5]

Do you mean the stupid Canto Bight Casino in The Last Jedi? The entire 30 minutes for nothing, other than to show privilege and horse beating animal cruelty, child labor and that even any child can use the force? That one?

Canto Bight sequence is actually only 11 minutes of the film.

It’s somewhat relevant for Finn’s arc from guy trying to save his friend and run from the first order (DJ influencing him to still not join), to guy willing to sacrifice himself for a cause (Rose pushing him to join).

It’s silly sure, but it’s no less silly than a worm in space on an asteroid while hiding.

 

[BrianL]

Canto Bight sequence is actually only 11 minutes of the film.

It’s somewhat relevant for Finn’s arc from guy trying to save his friend and run from the first order (DJ influencing him to still not join), to guy willing to sacrifice himself for a cause (Rose pushing him to join).

It’s silly sure, but it’s no less silly than a worm in space on an asteroid while hiding.

I like that part becuase it's prequel-ey. I didn't love the outcome where basically the mission was a total failure, but I appreciate it for the character arcs. Also, The Libertine rules - that's definitely the ship I would have stolen! DJ has good taste.

 

[ramee]

please please please. can we move on

EVERY Star Wars thread... does not matter what the topic is... Galactic Star Cruiser.... Ahsoka... Andor..... ends up with you (and usually BrianL) arguing about one movie made in 2017

Maybe at least change the title so we dont get duped into thinking it will be about anything else....

I had to like this. I got mid way on the first page and thought “I know where this is going…” and skipped to the last page to scroll for a different poster. I was not surprised to see the back and forth and assume the pages in between are the same.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

please please please. can we move on

EVERY Star Wars thread... does not matter what the topic is... Galactic Star Cruiser.... Ahsoka... Andor..... ends up with you (and usually BrianL) arguing about one movie made in 2017

Maybe at least change the title so we dont get duped into thinking it will be about anything else....

I understand what you are asking, but Anakin and Luke and Leia are pretty much Star Wars. The chosen one and his two children are essentially the entire Skywalker saga. Really hard to have a conversation about Star Wars and not discuss Anakin, Luke, and Leia. I’m willing to try but as far as the Skywalker saga goes they are essential. I mean the Disney ST was marketed as the exciting final chapters in the Skywalker saga right?

I think this is one of the reasons so many people don’t want a Rey movie. They want to move on away from the characters in the Skywalker Saga. It’s a big risk for Disney though, as they desperately want the built in fan base the Skywalkers bring with them.

 

[BrianL]

I understand what you are asking, but Anakin and Luke and Leia are pretty much Star Wars. The chosen one and his two children are essentially the entire Skywalker saga. Really hard to have a conversation about Star Wars and not discuss Anakin, Luke, and Leia. I’m willing to try but as far as the Skywalker saga goes they are essential. I mean the Disney ST was marketed as the exciting final chapters in the Skywalker saga right?

I think this is one of the reasons so many people don’t want a Rey movie. They want to move on away from the characters in the Skywalker Saga. It’s a big risk for Disney though, as they desperately want the built in fan base the Skywalkers bring with them.

I think this is pretty much the fundamental difference between our points of view. I think Star Wars is so much more than that. Besides, if anyone "is Star Wars" it's R2D2 and C-3PO!