New Disney Ships: News, Rumors, Speculation.....and Names!

[Flossbolna]

The newer ships (Disney Dream and Disney Fantasy) do fit in the new locks, but their height is too tall to clear the Bridge of the Americas. So unless DCL gets out the cutters and torches to take down stacks and some additional parts of the superstructure, the newer ships will never be able to transit the Panama Canal successfully.

So, how does the massive Norwegian Bliss fit through the locks?Any ship built by Meyer Werft has to fit under the bridges across the Ems for the transit out to the sea. I recently read about the Ems transit of the Norwegian Bliss and how they had special navigational tools for the bridges as there was only a couple of centimetres between ship and bridge. So, if the Bliss fits, the argument would be that Dream fits, too.

 

[WaywardMemphian]

Aulani-style I would love.

I think they will put another theme park in Europe though. They have three in Asia Pacific (Tokyo, HK, and now Shanghai) - and two in North America. European population can handle another one. They just need to build a slightly larger Marvel/Star Wars/Frozen/etc fan base with the younger crowds (= push through another 4-5 years of movies).

I bet the current owners of Universal wish Tha Port Aventura was still in the fold.

When will they consider a new park in Europe and where?

 

[gotomu212]

I don’t know if anyone has mentioned Brazil as a possible destination for the Magic/Wonder. Brazilians have a big connection to WDW and the ships usually draw sizable Brazilian cruisers. NCL and RCCL run several cruises from there. Their economy is going through a rough patch, but there seems to be enough of a draw for several months worth of cruises.

 

[gotomu212]

I've said numerous times that Disney should put a boat or two on the Mississippi. The Steamboat Willy if you will. Build a resort near Tunica MS and utilize it's landing and a Disney sans Marvel park but build a Marvel park on the Arkansas side of the River. A new bridge would connect I-69 to I-40 on the Arkansas side, it would also have light rail connecting the resorts and park on each side to the other. The resorts coupled with a nice water park make make a great start/stop/mid point to Disney themed river cruises. The open area Kinda reminds me of the Orlando area before Disney. Memphis has an empty airport that has plenty of commercial traffic room that's not dominated by a single carrier anymore and the bills are paid via it being the second largest cargo airport in the world. Just me spitballing.

As for the ship retirements, I doubt it. Too many smaller niche markets that could be served. All the need would more extensive drydocks. A smaller one may stay for longer spells in Galveston.

The Mississippi is tough to run consistent cruises between the commercial traffic and river conditions. There is a current line that does operate along it, but they have a lot of problems between the fluctuating water levels and debris caused by the droughts and floods over the last ten years and priority going to the barge traffic. At times it’s not safe to operate at night. The other issue is one of size. It would take a larger boat to make it economical, but the river can’t handle that and there aren’t the terminals to accommodate larger boats along the Mississippi so you’d have to build some of that capacity.

 

[WaywardMemphian]

There’s many problems with this Tunica MS plan, First and Foremost Disney has spent a lot of money trying to keep casinos out of FL. Why intentionally move somewhere with the direct completion of another industry. Disney doesn’t want a split of vacation dollars, they want all of them.

Casinos in Tunica will struggle even more in the future as more and more pop up, as like in Florida(cough, cough). The days of it actually being a mini Vegas is long gone. Disney sells shore excursions to Atlantis with it's Casino plus the other one in Nassau, docks and shares ports with ships that have casinos. It would not be direct competition, totally different markets the only true resort was the Grand/Harrahs, it's closed. In fact, those would make a great property to convert and close to the Landing. The boats would have to be US based and built like the other companies operating on the Mississippi. Their business is booming and pricing is at a premium like Disney cruises at sea.

 

[WaywardMemphian]

The Mississippi is tough to run consistent cruises between the commercial traffic and river conditions. There is a current line that does operate along it, but they have a lot of problems between the fluctuating water levels and debris caused by the droughts and floods over the last ten years and priority going to the barge traffic. At times it’s not safe to operate at night. The other issue is one of size. It would take a larger boat to make it economical, but the river can’t handle that and there aren’t the terminals to accommodate larger boats along the Mississippi so you’d have to build some of that capacity.

There's more than one company and Viking wants to get in on it but isn't willing to pony up for US built boats. More boats are on the way. Many cities have plans to upgrade their Riverfront to handle larger boats or already have done so. Those issues you rambled off is no different than hurricanes and changing ports due to their damage at certain times of the year. Memphis is going to double to size of it's new facility if and when Viking finally gets it together. Other cities would chomp at the bit to follow suit.

Article on the current cruising business

http://www.travelweekly.com/River-Cruising/Next-gen-US-fleets-sailing-into-future

Beale Street Landing Cruise Terminal in Memphis

 

[Spork24]

Casinos in Tunica will struggle even more in the future as more and more pop up, as like in Florida(cough, cough). The days of it actually being a mini Vegas is long gone. Disney sells shore excursions to Atlantis with it's Casino plus the other one in Nassau, docks and shares ports with ships that have casinos. It would not be direct competition, totally different markets the only true resort was the Grand/Harrahs, it's closed. In fact, those would make a great property to convert and close to the Landing. The boats would have to be US based and built like the other companies operating on the Mississippi. Their business is booming and pricing is at a premium like Disney cruises at sea.

Running cruise excursions competing with a casino is very different from building parks in tunica. It’s a pipe dream.

Could Disney someday get into river cruising, absolutely. If they do will they stop in tunica, why not.

 

[gotomu212]

There's more than one company and Viking wants to get in on it but isn't willing to pony up for US built boats. More boats are on the way. Many cities have plans to upgrade their Riverfront to handle larger boats or already have done so. Those issues you rambled off is no different than hurricanes and changing ports due to their damage at certain times of the year. Memphis is going to double to size of it's new facility if and when Viking finally gets it together. Other cities would chomp at the bit to follow suit.

Article on the current cruising business

http://www.travelweekly.com/River-Cruising/Next-gen-US-fleets-sailing-into-future

Beale Street Landing Cruise Terminal in Memphis

I apologize I said there was one line when in fact there are two. Still were talking less than 6 ships, and several of those cruise on other rivers. The issue with size is still a huge factor. Those ships only have 150-200 passengers, with one having a larger 432 passengers. Disney shoots for 2000 passengers and the river cannot support that.

The river congestion/condition situation is very different than a hurricane. When a hurricane is in the gulf, Disney sails the eastern and vise versa. Only when Port Canaveral is affected is a cruise cancelled. On the Mississippi there is no other option if the river is shut for adverse conditions. It’s also very common for sections to be closed multiple times a year and for extended durations.

I think Vickiny is still a long shot, and DCL is a no shot, because the economics of building and staffing cruise ships with US labor is cost prohibitive for the margins they get with bigger sea cruises. Although DIsney is dipping their toes into the more established European river cruises.

 

[Intr3pid]

I bet the current owners of Universal wish Tha Port Aventura was still in the fold.

When will they consider a new park in Europe and where?

My money would be on the Mediterranean - away from the winter blues. Near Barcelona or Rome would be DCL-friendly. One thing they have tried in Asia Pacific is to keep the themes in individual parks somewhat unique. Helps tone down at least some cannibalization.

 

[scgustafson]

So, how does the massive Norwegian Bliss fit through the locks?Any ship built by Meyer Werft has to fit under the bridges across the Ems for the transit out to the sea. I recently read about the Ems transit of the Norwegian Bliss and how they had special navigational tools for the bridges as there was only a couple of centimetres between ship and bridge. So, if the Bliss fits, the argument would be that Dream fits, too.

The clearance for the Bridge of the Americas is 201 ft, while the height above waterline for both of the newer ships is 217 ft. Norwegian does not seem to list the heights of their ships, nor could I find the height of the Norwegian Bliss anywhere. As for the Ems, the Jann Berghaus bridge is a Bascule bridge, otherwise, known as a drawbridge, so height is not an issue. The Friesenbrücke bridge was destroyed in December of 2015 by a ship collision.

 

[Spork24]

The clearance for the Bridge of the Americas is 201 ft, while the height above waterline for both of the newer ships is 217 ft. Norwegian does not seem to list the heights of their ships, nor could I find the height of the Norwegian Bliss anywhere. As for the Ems, the Jann Berghaus bridge is a Bascule bridge, otherwise, known as a drawbridge, so height is not an issue. The Friesenbrücke bridge was destroyed in December of 2015 by a ship collision.

I’ve looked for the height of the Bliss with no luck as well. I wonder why they keep that a secret?

 

[CenTex Disney Fan]

The clearance for the Bridge of the Americas is 201 ft, while the height above waterline for both of the newer ships is 217 ft. Norwegian does not seem to list the heights of their ships, nor could I find the height of the Norwegian Bliss anywhere. As for the Ems, the Jann Berghaus bridge is a Bascule bridge, otherwise, known as a drawbridge, so height is not an issue. The Friesenbrücke bridge was destroyed in December of 2015 by a ship collision.

Wouldn't be surprised if one of the three new ships max height is 198 ft...

 

[Spork24]

Wouldn't be surprised if one of the three new ships max height is 198 ft...

Soooooooo, the canal authority lists the max height for regular crossings at 190 ft. They don’t want any close calls. You can get a waiver between 190 and 201 for a single crossing but I don’t think 198 would fly for semi-yearly crossings. 189 is the magic number here I think, and part of me expects all 3 of them to get there. Though comparing the concept art to the dream and fantasy they sure don’t look shorter. I guess they could build 1 ship with low profile funnels? Not sure how that would look.

When they designed the dream class the wider canal Locks weren’t open yet, so they couldn’t have fit at first anyway.

There are lots of options Disney has if they don’t want to design around the Panama restriction, but they would still need to be under 200 I believe to operate out of their current terminal in Vancouver.

 

[mmouse37]

I apologize I said there was one line when in fact there are two. Still were talking less than 6 ships, and several of those cruise on other rivers. The issue with size is still a huge factor. Those ships only have 150-200 passengers, with one having a larger 432 passengers. Disney shoots for 2000 passengers and the river cannot support that.

The river congestion/condition situation is very different than a hurricane. When a hurricane is in the gulf, Disney sails the eastern and vise versa. Only when Port Canaveral is affected is a cruise cancelled. On the Mississippi there is no other option if the river is shut for adverse conditions. It’s also very common for sections to be closed multiple times a year and for extended durations.

I think Vickiny is still a long shot, and DCL is a no shot, because the economics of building and staffing cruise ships with US labor is cost prohibitive for the margins they get with bigger sea cruises. Although DIsney is dipping their toes into the more established European river cruises.

I did the Adventure By Disney River Cruise down the Danube last July. We did Budapest, Hungary to Vilshofen, Germany. It was a fantastic cruise but other than Disney music playing the first day and a welcome aboard reception with a Disney themed cake (and some mickey head cookies) there was nothing Disney onboard. No characters, no Disney theming either. We had less than 100 guest onboard. The service and excursions were outstanding but it is not a Disney ship. They do a partnership with Ama Waterways. If people are looking for fully immersive Disney like the ocean cruising their river cruising is not that. I was fascinated with the riverboats. I had no idea there were so many boats on the rivers. We had to literally walk through 2 other riverboats to get to our boat at some ports. You walk from the dock through their small lobby and out the other side to the next boat to walk through. A very different experience!

MJ

 

[WaywardMemphian]

I did the Adventure By Disney River Cruise down the Danube last July. We did Budapest, Hungary to Vilshofen, Germany. It was a fantastic cruise but other than Disney music playing the first day and a welcome aboard reception with a Disney themed cake (and some mickey head cookies) there was nothing Disney onboard. No characters, no Disney theming either. We had less than 100 guest onboard. The service and excursions were outstanding but it is not a Disney ship. They do a partnership with Ama Waterways. If people are looking for fully immersive Disney like the ocean cruising their river cruising is not that. I was fascinated with the riverboats. I had no idea there were so many boats on the rivers. We had to literally walk through 2 other riverboats to get to our boat at some ports. You walk from the dock through their small lobby and out the other side to the next boat to walk through. A very different experience!

MJ

This is why I think Disney should do their own with their own vessels. Some are trying to confuse the issue and thinking that these have to be 2,000 passengers to work. That's not true as is the the case with current operators. It was also mentioned that there's only 6 ships, though they failed to mention that 6 are on the way (read that article I linked) and Viking was going for 8. I hope Viking finds their US shipbuilding partner soon. But... as it stands the opportunity is there due to this fact. With smaller scaled boats with fewer passengers, you'd only likely need one theater less restuarants, everything is scaled down including cast members. You really can't equate it with ocean cruising. Locks arw not an issue from St. Louis to New Orleans on the Mississippi only above StL and on the Ohio, Missouri and Arkansas River systems.

Walt Disney thought so much of Riverboats, we got Steamboat Willy and paddle wheelers in his parks. This is about as natural of a progression of Disney as one can think and it's where Classic Disney like Tom Sawyer can live on.

 

[WaywardMemphian]

Running cruise excursions competing with a casino is very different from building parks in tunica. It’s a pipe dream.

Could Disney someday get into river cruising, absolutely. If they do will they stop in tunica, why not.

I think you missed my point on Tunica. Aside from the burgeoning music tourism aspect of the Delta. There's bridge studies that show various options for new bridges over the Mississippi around the Greater Memphis area, one of these options is a crossing from Arkansas to Mississipp iat Tunica. (See the light Purple/Lavender Route)

This bridge would allow for a Marvel Park to be built on the Arkansas Side. I could by designed with passenger rail included. A possible Disney IP park could be built on the Mississippi side where the Riverboat landing is.

This would place Disney Parks a major crossroads of America (I-40, I-55, I-69 along with I-22). It would overcome the Marvel hurdle. the parks in Paris and Tokyo show that colder weather doesn't hamper the parks and we see that most rides are now indoor attractions anyways.
Then there's the airport infrastructure with Memphis International. A 4 runway behemoth that is waiting to be properly utilized since Delta pulled the former Northwest hub out. While it is the second largest cargo airport in the world (sometimes #1) thanks tothe Massive FedEx hub there, their sorts are are at odd times and wouldn't conflict too much with a passenger traffic. It should be noted that Memphis already has over 2 million International Tourist a year with Canada, Uk, Austrailia, Brazil, Japan, Germany and other European countries at the top of the heap.

Again, it's a combination of things that gets me thinking this way. It opens up A new River Cruising market and overcomes Marvel space obsticles in California without canabalizing existing attractions and Florida with competition restrictions. Given the construction lead time the Bridge could be built along with the new boats and parks. Plus you have a ready made airport no farther away than MCO is to WDW nearly ready to go that with enough planning lead time, could hand 10s of millions more in passenger traffic.

Pick it apart if you want, I'm done with it after this post but if I was CEO, I'd be looking at all that wide open flat farmland like Walt did with all that flat swampland and thinking that three different states would fall over themselves to attract such a venture (Arkansas, Mississippi and Tennessee would all greatly benefit from this) Arkansas gave a steel mill a billion bucks, wonder what they'd give for a Disney Park?

 

[bobbiwoz]

I would like to sail on Disney Charm.

 

[Spork24]

I think you missed my point on Tunica. Aside from the burgeoning music tourism aspect of the Delta. There's bridge studies that show various options for new bridges over the Mississippi around the Greater Memphis area, one of these options is a crossing from Arkansas to Mississipp iat Tunica. (See the light Purple/Lavender Route)

This bridge would allow for a Marvel Park to be built on the Arkansas Side. I could by designed with passenger rail included. A possible Disney IP park could be built on the Mississippi side where the Riverboat landing is.

This would place Disney Parks a major crossroads of America (I-40, I-55, I-69 along with I-22). It would overcome the Marvel hurdle. the parks in Paris and Tokyo show that colder weather doesn't hamper the parks and we see that most rides are now indoor attractions anyways.
Then there's the airport infrastructure with Memphis International. A 4 runway behemoth that is waiting to be properly utilized since Delta pulled the former Northwest hub out. While it is the second largest cargo airport in the world (sometimes #1) thanks tothe Massive FedEx hub there, their sorts are are at odd times and wouldn't conflict too much with a passenger traffic. It should be noted that Memphis already has over 2 million International Tourist a year with Canada, Uk, Austrailia, Brazil, Japan, Germany and other European countries at the top of the heap.

Again, it's a combination of things that gets me thinking this way. It opens up A new River Cruising market and overcomes Marvel space obsticles in California without canabalizing existing attractions and Florida with competition restrictions. Given the construction lead time the Bridge could be built along with the new boats and parks. Plus you have a ready made airport no farther away than MCO is to WDW nearly ready to go that with enough planning lead time, could hand 10s of millions more in passenger traffic.

Pick it apart if you want, I'm done with it after this post but if I was CEO, I'd be looking at all that wide open flat farmland like Walt did with all that flat swampland and thinking that three different states would fall over themselves to attract such a venture (Arkansas, Mississippi and Tennessee would all greatly benefit from this) Arkansas gave a steel mill a billion bucks, wonder what they'd give for a Disney Park?

Nope, I didn’t miss your point. Now the economic incentive package may change things if Arkansas (or whoever) was willing to pay the full price of building a park.

 

[scgustafson]

Soooooooo, the canal authority lists the max height for regular crossings at 190 ft. They don’t want any close calls. You can get a waiver between 190 and 201 for a single crossing but I don’t think 198 would fly for semi-yearly crossings. 189 is the magic number here I think, and part of me expects all 3 of them to get there. Though comparing the concept art to the dream and fantasy they sure don’t look shorter. I guess they could build 1 ship with low profile funnels? Not sure how that would look.

When they designed the dream class the wider canal Locks weren’t open yet, so they couldn’t have fit at first anyway.

There are lots of options Disney has if they don’t want to design around the Panama restriction, but they would still need to be under 200 I believe to operate out of their current terminal in Vancouver.

All 3 of the new ships have to meet the same structural specifications based on the type of contract they made with Meyer-Werft for class construction, so if one is going to be Panama Canal/Bridge of the Americas compliant, they all will be. The non-structural components can be varied, such as décor, but most of that is done by DCL sub-contactors done under the watch of Disney Imagineers.

 

[truck1]

Here's s little new ship tidbit. All 3 hull numbers are now public knowledge. They are in order
2021 s.705
2022 s.718
2023 s.706.

This tells us lot. It says the first 2 ships, were scheduled for a 21 and 23 delivery. It wasn't a mistake or misprint. The 22 ship was an add on or addition. Personally I think MW made DCL an offer they couldn't refuse since at the time, they had no orders for ships on order for the year 2022