New ECV Rules Oct. 1?

[maroo]

I do need to say that I was there on Oct 1, 2 and 3rd and the only trouble I had was that one day at Epcot. The rest of the times were fine - I guess because I was leaving the MK for two of the nights and those are not mainstreamed yet.

When they mainstream all of the queues, I think I would have waited longer. The main problem, it seems, is when large groups of people are trying to get back to the resorts. Most of the issue can be avoided it you just plan to stay at the park for a little longer to shop or grab a bite to eat following fireworks or anything where large groups of people are gathered.

I would not "worry" too much about it...there really isn't anything we can do. Especially if you are in a larger ECV (not portable) or a powerchair ... we have no choice, we just have to wait for the buses. In the future, if I am having to use a wheelchair, I will just plan to try to avoid the high crowd bus times.

The drivers, for the vast majority, were very kind and helpful and the guests were kind on this trip, too!

 

[maroo]

The wheelchair loading policy did not change.

The number of guests with the wheelchair did (not really, the number of guests allowed to board through the back doors was set at 6 total guests months before)

You still wait in the wheelchair loading area in resorts that have one or in/near the painted box. We will still load you first if there is room for you. 5 other guests in your party will be allowed to board with you, any other guests will need to use the standard queue. You may choose to wait until the rest of your party will be in a position to ride with you. We will not move them ahead of other guests to make sure they ride with you.


This seems fair - so that large groups don't load with a wheelchair party. But, if the party wants to wait until the chair is loaded...can they?? Like if it is the 5th bus they end up waiting for...can they all wait together? Or will they have to wait again for another bus...Does that make sense??


If you come up to a bus stop and we are already loading the bus and there are still guests in line, I will ask you to wait for the next bus. That is being fair.


I am not exactly sure how someone using a wheelchair would consider this "fair" - how "fair" is it that I can't board the bus because I can't walk. The rule is basically saying that if I could walk, I can take this bus...but since I can't - I have to wait.

Life isn't fair - but that statement sorta rubbed me the wrong way - because we can at least acknowledge that the new policy isn't providing equal access.

If I stopped loading the guests that were waiting first, that's not fair to them and probably not safe, either. That would be providing preferential treatment.

Personally, I don't want to stop loading the other passengers - I definitely think they should go ahead and get on the bus.

As far as the rule SueM was referring to, that was the policy at one time, but it was not mentioned at the training we had on the new policies, so maybe that has changed. From a fairness standpoint, I would agree with that rule but from a practicality standpoint, if I can squeeze several standee guests on a full bus, I think that I should be allowed to. If I load standee guests but cannot load a wheelchair, I will call my coordinator for a bus to come and pick up the wheelchair.

Which sounds good...but it wasn't working that way. Buses were coming and pulling up beside the other bus to continue loading ONLY walking passengers. And that really isn't fair.


This happened at Riverside this weekend, a 3 wheelchair party was not able to board the bus running the route, the driver called it in and I happened to have a 3 position bus that was empty. I was dispatched directly to Riverside East depot to pick up those guests.

I'll bend over backwards to help out those who are in a wheelchair (and me bending over backwards is not a pretty sight!) but I need for you to be understanding that I'm trying to help all guests equally.

Honestly, if you are nice to me, then I am really nice, too. I only get bent out of shape when someone is not nice. The bus driver on the 1st told me in a rough tone that, "This is just the way it has to be!" and I would have been much happier waiting 40 minutes if he had said something like, "I am so sorry we don't have a bus for you, one should be arriving shortly."


The intent of the rules is to allow equal access, not preferred access.

Oh, and by the way, the way we are inspecting buses does not have any effect on the wheelchair policy, it really did not need to be brought up in this thread.

I am glad they are inspecting the buses, though! Good to know.

 

[maroo]

Maroo - that is my concern - I don't mind waiting, but it sounds like we are going to be waiting at LEAST one extra bus. I think this is going to get very ugly come holiday time!

It is designed so that you wait for one extra bus. I think that is the problem I have with the design.

Maroo, I am going solo in january and I am a little concerned now--wasn't before!

Really - honestly - don't worry. I had an AWESOME trip!! It was just a bump in the road. Just plan to stay away from the big crowds and you will be fine, I promise!!

 

[KPeveler]

It is designed so that you wait for one extra bus. I think that is the problem I have with the design.

I agree - saying I automatically have to wait for the next bus does not sound very equal... Basically it says if I could stand then I would be able to get on the bus (assuming there is room for me to get on without a wheelchair), but since I have a wheelchair, I have to wait. I can see where that could actually cause some legal trouble, should anyone choose to challenge it.

 

[mom3sonstt]

I agree - saying I automatically have to wait for the next bus does not sound very equal... Basically it says if I could stand then I would be able to get on the bus (assuming there is room for me to get on without a wheelchair), but since I have a wheelchair, I have to wait. I can see where that could actually cause some legal trouble, should anyone choose to challenge it.

We will be there in November. We are staying at Boardwalk so my bus time will be minimal - we will "walk" to Epcot, Studios and monorail over to MK. I don't plan to go to AK this trip (specifically to avoid the bus). But we do plan to go Downtown and that can only be on the bus. And sometimes DH doesn't want to monorail back from MK so that would be another bus. I can see him being very out-spoken if we wait in a line then get to the front only to be told we have to wait for another bus the man really has no filter on his thoughts. Personally if I am leaving at the end of the day and come to a full bus stop I hang back and don't roll up in front of them. DH says I should because if I don't and they load that bus with no wheelchairs or ECVs that those spots were "wasted" and that if 2 or 3 more people roll up behind me they will have to wait even longer because I "let one get away".

There is no good way to make everyone happy. But I can't see how making people who, in a lot of cases, are unfamiliar with the ECVs, load with a fuller bus than is necessary is a good thing. I struggle with getting it into the little spot when the bus is practically empty - when you start filling it and there are kids and legs and strollers in the way with no room to maneuver - it will only be harder.

I have been looking forward to this trip for months - now with only a month to go I am dreading it.

 

[cranbiz]

I'm sorry that my statement rubbed you the wrong way. It was not my intent.

You are right that if there is room for one standee and you in a wheelchair not being allowed on because of the chair may not seem right but what are the options of the driver other than not to load anyone else. I can do that and if that is the general consensus of all of the wheelchair users, then that will be my policy. In a situation like that, Disney does gives me that option.

I can not load a chair if I don't have the space for it. I can not force anyone to give up the tie down seat. I can ask and if they are willing, I then could load the chair but would it be safe?

It is my intent to treat everyone fairly and with courtesy and to provide a great guest experience. If I didn't care, I would not post here. Your suggestions are always welcome.

Please don't shoot the messenger.

 

[KPeveler]

I know there is no right answer, but I will admit, this new policy makes me glad I am not going to WDW anytime soon (I live down the street from DL now). Having to wait for another bus nearly every time would get very frustrating very quickly, and I cannot rent a car due to my powerchair...

I realize that people were annoyed they had to wait for a wheelchair to be loaded, but they are going to have to wait anyway for me to be loaded. I would think Disney would be more interested in avoiding the problems that will occur when people get run over by the inexperienced ECV drivers trying to back into a spot... because we all know it is going to happen.

The seats I need to be in are the prime spots on the bus, so we KNOW people will be sitting there. Since you cannot force them to move (yes, I know it is the law), its pretty much guarantees I will not be on the first bus no matter what...

And I thought the law was when you get to the person in the wheelchair, if you cannot load them, you cannot load anyone else. But I could be wrong.

 

[cranbiz]

I also thought it was a law about not loading other guests but it was not covered in the new training so As I said before, it may not be.

Actually, I usually get good cooperation when I ask guests to move out of the tie down seats, maybe it's the way I ask. However, If they say no, my hands are tied.

I have not worked EPCOT at closing since the changes so I don't have first hand experience with the mainstreamed lines. During the day, most of my guests were waiting in the wheelchair area.

Can't do anything about when the buses are double loading. It's not safe to try to load a wheelchair on the outboard bus and it would be utter chaos if we did not double load the really busy resort lines at closing. Don't know how to even suggest fixing that and make everyone happy.

If anyone has suggestions on how to make it all work efficiently, write Disney, They will listen to good ideas. Some of the changes are the direct result of guest comments.

 

[mom3sonstt]

I can not load a chair if I don't have the space for it. I can not force anyone to give up the tie down seat. I can ask and if they are willing, I then could load the chair but would it be safe?

It is my intent to treat everyone fairly and with courtesy and to provide a great guest experience. If I didn't care, I would not post here. Your suggestions are always welcome.

Please don't shoot the messenger.

I hope this doesn't come across as argumentative because it is not intended that way. But aren't the seats posted with a sign saying that they are for wheelchairs? I was always under the impression that if there was even standing room left that the people in those seats "had" to get up to accomodate a WC/ECV.

I do understand that if the bus is filled to capacity that you can not ask anyone to get off (nor would I ever expect or want anyone to do so) and I personally have no problem with you cramming a few more standees on the bus if you are already that full.

What I am having a problem with (and I haven't been there to see how it works) is having to wait in line then when it's my turn having to try to load on a bus that is "fuller" than it would have been if I had loaded ahead of people - making it harder for me to maneuver and therefore giving everybody a longer wait than if I had loaded ahead of them. Or if, as you say you can't tell someone they have to move, not getting on the bus at all because somebody won't give up the seat that I have to use.

Right now I am extremely apprehensive about this change , but in the back of my mind I keep reminding myself that if it as anywhere near as disastrous as I am imagining it that by the time I am there next month there will have been enough complaints that the process will be tweaked.

I do know that Disney is smart enough that if something that looked good on paper doesn't work in practice that they will ditch it. Several years ago we were at OKW when they decided to have you go to a certain bus stop depending on which park you were going to and to take an internal bus to that stop instead of all the buses stopping at each stop. They had CMs with clipboards at the stops and were monitoring it. Our stop waited for well over 30 minutes without "our park" bus coming. The gal with the clipboard finally called it in and had a bus there - we waited nearly an hour at just that stop, missed early entry, and the bus was standing room only (this was before I needed a scooter so that wasn't even a delay) By the time we got back from the park that afternoon there were signs at all the stops that they were going back to the original system. So I do know that they are capable of dropping something that just doesn't work. Hopefully this will work, and it's just that I am having trouble visualizing it.

 

[KPeveler]

I certainly do not argue about double boarding - the bus on the outside could not safely load a wheelchair.

If a bus pulls up to a mainstreamed line, and there is a wheelchair waiting in the "wheelchair spot" I assume they load them first.

I hope that things do work out smoothly. I just worry because we already have a report of trouble with the new mainstreamed lines and they have only been around a couple days...

 

[cranbiz]

I don't see you as being argumentative. This is a discussion, as long as we keep it civil, everybody wins.

I'll get the exact wording on the stickers this weekend, but if memory serves me right (probably not though) it states that you should offer those seats to the elderly and mobility impaired.

Here is my take on the mainstreamed queues, If a wheelchair is in line and it is determined that are in a position to make the bus, I'm going to pull you out of the line and load you first, because it is safer for all guests but you have got to be already in the line. I don't care how long it takes, I get paid by the hour. You just can not roll up and expect us to drop everything to load you IF there is already a line there. This is where some of the problems have been, a full line is already in the queue and a scooter wheels up and demands to be loaded. They are in effect, cutting the line.

I hope not to get flamed for this but I have found that if you are truly in need of the mobility device that there is great understanding of what I go through and you are very understanding, it's the guests that don't truly need the device that are the difficult ones (IE the ones trying to beat the system). I have had wheelchair bound guests stand up for me in some of these situations and for that I am truly grateful. I am not trying to generalize or state that any of you here are like this because I really believe in what this forum does for guests in a difficult situation.

I have a thick skin so other guests comments don't bother me and they should not bother you, they are just letting their ignorance show.

 

[KPeveler]

no, you cannot force people to move - I have checked federal transportation law - you can ask, but you cannot force them to move. Basically I think this is because people sitting there may be disabled or need the seat for invisible reasons...

 

[mom3sonstt]

So I take it not all the places have the mainstreamed queues yet. What do you do at the resorts (especially) where when the bus pulls up everybody "pushes" to get on because there is no designated line in place?

And with the mainstreamed queues (which again, I have not seen) how can you see if there is a scooter if they are behind the first row of people - we sit lower, and the driver would have people disembarking blocking their view. I have been sitting in the "chair loading spot" before and my husband has had to go tell the driver I was there before because they would start let people loading after the others had gotten off and never even acknowledged I was there. (no - not all drivers - there have been wonderful ones, and terrible ones and many more somewhere in between...)

Maybe my real question should be - just how do the mainstreamed queues work? Do you stay in the regular line the whole way then go to the back of the bus to load when it's your turn? Or do you (as I understand) get siphoned off to another line at some point and then wait behind the other WC/ECVs? And if it's the second scenario - how does the driver know at what point you got siphoned off? How do you know whether they are in the middle of the line and just got to that point, or whether they just missed the last bus (too full - or both slots already taken) and have been sitting there longer than the people standing in line

Or better yet - why don't they just run monorails to all the various locations - I can roll right on to those

 

[cranbiz]

You will find that all resorts are going to have the painted sizing box. This is where to wait for the bus.

Believe me, I can see several rows back in the line. I do sit higher up and have pretty good viability.

The way we pull into a load zone, there should not be a reason to come up to the driver to tell that there is a chair waiting, we can see you (Now, I don't speak for lazy drivers, unfortunately, you will still get some). The only times where there may be doubt is at a combined bus stop like POR, OKW, SSR, CBR, etc. There I will usually point to you and then to the marquee to see if you are taking my bus. You waving at me is usually a sign that you wish to ride with me too.

 

[mom3sonstt]

The way we pull into a load zone, there should not be a reason to come up to the driver to tell that there is a chair waiting, we can see you (Now, I don't speak for lazy drivers, unfortunately, you will still get some). The only times where there may be doubt is at a combined bus stop like POR, OKW, SSR, CBR, etc. There I will usually point to you and then to the marquee to see if you are taking my bus. You waving at me is usually a sign that you wish to ride with me too.

It must be a lazy driver that we have encountered because I have sat there and watched people start to get on - then DH will "cut" and say "hey - we have a chair to load". So then the driver shuts the front door - making everyone mad thinking they are getting "left". Of course, those are also usually the drivers that are the least helpful loading. Some are wonderful - they can talk me right into "my spot". Others act like the whole job is a major inconvenience to them

I do notice and appreciate the drivers who catch my eye as they are pulling up to see if I need them - and I do try to wave or indicate that "yes - this is the bus I want" when I see it pull in.

Somewhat veering off topic a little - what is the policy regarding assisting with getting the ECV in place? I have had some who will tell me to stay seated and let go and they will steer me into place, others try to verbally direct me, some just stand there. If it is really crowded I will try to talk my husband into putting it in freewheel and shifting it in place. I would prefer if he would just drive it on and park it for me - but he refuses to because "it would look bad".

 

[maroo]

I sort of took a few pictures of the queue at Epcot...at least how it was on Oct 1st - I am sure they will be adjusting these as they go.

When you load it will tell you which number to follow and you go down these really wide lines that right now were created using rope.

This picture is taken from where I am sitting on the side waiting for the bus. PS - This picture above was taken AFTER all the people were gone that I had been waiting with. In fact, there were very few people waiting at all by the time I boarded a bus, as evidenced by the picture.

When you get toward the end of the line it opens up for the wheelchair to get out...It is about this far back in the line...I would say there would probably be about 25-50 people in front of you in line by the time the wheelchair "pops" out of the line to be loaded.

See the people in the line...

Ideally, I think the process should work so that you would get out of the line with enough time to either load on the same bus with the people you were waiting with...but they didn't stop the line when I came out.

And this doesn't take into account the double busing or more ECV's waiting to load (who have already waited in the mainstream line and are now waiting in the wheelchair line).

Basically it is all a toss up - reminds me of the accessible line at Toy Story or the Safari - you could end up waiting about the same amt of time as someone walking or you may have to wait considerably longer if there happen to be more wheelchairs in line ahead of you.

ps..no idea why the pics are so big...i will have to work on that in a bit... ??

 

[maroo]

cranbiz - thanks for the posts! I can appreciate your predicament with keeping everyone happy and I really appreciate you being bold enough to post on here.

 

[cm8]

cranbiz - thanks for the posts! I can appreciate your predicament with keeping everyone happy and I really appreciate you being bold enough to post on here.

agreed!

 

[mom3sonstt]

cranbiz - thanks for the posts! I can appreciate your predicament with keeping everyone happy and I really appreciate you being bold enough to post on here.

agreed!

Yes thanks for the driver's perspective on this.

 

[mrsksomeday]

I'll get the exact wording on the stickers this weekend, but if memory serves me right (probably not though) it states that you should offer those seats to the elderly and mobility impaired.

When you say "sticker" do you mean the ones above the seats where the wheelchairs/ecv's are placed? Do they have new stickers? I have a picture of the sticker from a previous trip, are there new ones? :​

I cropped it from this picture: