New ECV Rules Oct. 1?

[scottsod]

well we get both sides of the problem my son uses a manual w/c so we load from the back. but i have 2 little guys and a double stroller total of 5
and both the little guys are disabled 1 has autism and the other has adhd among other things so we need to keep them in seats or our lap especialy the 3 yo he screams if you hold him down he needs a seat.

so we used to always load from the spot outside the line and have had mostly good luck but alot of waiting for the next bus like was said at parks at closing you will wait while others load double or triple parked buses.

epcot has always been the worst there was never a marked spot for pop were we stay its the last bus stop so we just went past the line to the end and stood there. we usualy skip illuminations and go to the bus while most are still inside watching that. what scares me this trip is we always took a double stroller that folded up then again in 1/2 so it would stand on its own i could shove it between my sons w/c and the bus wall and it would stay put

this year its gone and we replaced it with a large joging type double that only folds in 1/2 so im gona have to hold it in my seat or next to me as i stand and the kids sit with mom

i would say the #1 most frustrating thing about the wdw buses are
the lack of consistancy


scott

 

[cm8]

If the sticker said those sitting there mustmove for a scooter or wheelchair I thought that was pretty much the rule. If you didn't want to take that chance, you wouldn't sit there. I could be wrong, but my understanding is you choose to sit there with the understanding you must move if required, or the American's with Disabilities Act could be called in. I thought it had the teeth to enforce it. Not trying to start a war, here, but I truly thought you had to vacate those seats for a scooter or wheelchair.

me too

 

[Emagine]

The more I thought about this yesterday the more I realized Disney may be setting up a big fail here. The way some have discussed the lines and such I do not see much good coming of this. I go in a few weeks and will check this out.

I can certainly see someone getting bumped or hurt by a scooter if the bus is loaded. I would hate to see that as much as anyone. This idea just does not fit the Disney bus system IMO. Especially when all the drivers are different like everyone says. That has to be so darn confusing!

I can understand the pop-out idea if all drivers would board the chairs first. If I have it pictured right in my head and the system works once the kinks are out then this has the possibility to provide what is needed. When I say needed it would cut out all the ones who come to a bus stop and get on first when the line is 3-5 rows deep. Or the ones who say that have witnessed the large loading crowds with them. Tell me in the pop-outs is it just the chair that 'pops out' or do they want the family too? That could make a difference as well. While I could see having to wait an extra bus if your not loaded in time though. I know that is no fun, btdt by choice so we do not stand.

Knock on wood I have only seen massive loading twice, it was not 15-20 ppl but more like 10-12 including kids. So in hindsight those people all got to ride before anyone else no matter what. Sad thing was this was park closing when I saw it and you know how mad hatter that is. So if I saw it and lets say 90% of the ppl here who say the same witness it then I could understand the reason some write to Disney as that is a lot of ppl who were out of space on a bus as well who had been waiting. Is that the main reason for this change? And before the Holidays, I feel for everyone.

I went looking around into the ADA and so far I can conclude it covers mental and physical. Which I knew because Autism and other Mental disorders meet disability laws. But I was not sure how it was handled when it came to making people move who are seated there no matter the condition. I would not want to see discrimination against either. Too bad those seats do not fold up and can be used as standing room or something preventing anyone from sitting. I saw where a state did that in a pdf file.

Disney *could* have an issue here if they meet the wrong passengers sitting or wanting to load. (IE: other disabilities). I could not find in any case or written laws that they must move. Was suggested and of course the morally right things to do. I would certainly hope most would move if they could. I plan on skipping those seats much like I have skipped buses in the past to accommodate my boys needs.

I can see some people crying wolf in those seats who have nothing wrong with them and they refuse to move just as I can see some folks wanting to load getting upset thinking they are lazy and rude even if they have a reason to sit. Can not go well. I feel for the population involved as much as I do the drivers who put up with this.

In this case, how are the bus drivers at Disney trained to handle this? Do you just ask someone to move and accept the answer or require more (a reason) if they decline?

I would like think more kind souls would have no issue in offering their need to sit in the any seat but what if there are none to transfer too? In turn if a seat is needed for a medical condition can the driver assist in moving those people? I can see how this could get sticky. Now your dealing with multiple people who can not stand and how to be equal to all. This would be prevented if all were - boarded first but not before those who have been waiting longer. Perhaps someone at the lines?

I can certainly also see how some could/would remain private if asked. Perhaps some sort of GAC system to be done at the hotel instead of the parks indicating something with a symbol or something so bus drivers know. Heck, just thinking out loud here as I know and support the Autism groups who travel there and we discuss trips often with planning. They would benefit from the right information in keeping things simple for everyone and not harder.

I can see where they are trying to make things equal for those who wait but I am not too sure what they have come up with is the right answer. KWIM? Surely there is a better way. I can certainly see them wanting to make everyone wait together so everyone boards more fairly but I am not keen on the chairs after ppl are on. Too many risks. Take for example my little guy, he loves wheels on hotwheels or off. He would be in 7th heaven. But I know his ticks and obsessions and can hold him as long as I am also safe with my big boy. But what about the one child who is in the path or the one grown up looking for a free ticket. Oh my.

I know they can not do this but somehow it would be neat if each row was more like an indicator of how many ppl were boarding with those boxes at the front. If you make it before everyone board first. If after then I am sure it could be just as accommodating if the line is not packed and you do not have 10 Joes with you putting everyone out. But still board first for safety for everyone.

Heck I do not know I am just tossing ideas around because I agree with most everyone here. If they are out for an easier situation for everyone I think they need to go back to the white board. As someone who has an uncertain future and respects what people go through this does hold a dear spot in my heart.

Say, maybe I will go work for Disney and create a handicapped/DVC mixed bus only. lol... Cuts down on the amount of ppl needing a ride and opens slots for those in need. Hmm it could be magical, but then I am just dreaming right

 

[Disneyadore]

I just don't get the problem.
Disabled persons would like to get EQUAL TREATMENT not preferred so why not wait the same time as "healthy" persons?
And no I will not give up me seat for a wheelchair or EVC because I'm fighting cancer although I look healthy.
I need my seat just as much as a EVC person would need it. I just have to get in line and wait for our turn.
Sorry but this whole I'm in a wheelchair or EVC does not qualify you for preferred treatment.

 

[BillSears]

...Sorry but this whole I'm in a wheelchair or EVC does not qualify you for preferred treatment.

I don't want preferred treatment but I don't think the general public wants wheelchair users to have equal access in this situation.

Otherwise when I get to the front of the line no one behind me can board until after I board.

Lift broken, too bad no one else boards. Already 2 wheelchairs on the bus, nope no one else can board. People won't get out of the tie down seats, Oh well no one else boards. Etc...

Equal also would mean not having to wait for the bus driver to untie the straps and lower the ramp to leave. Being the last one off the bus is not equal.

I don't think equal can be achieved but boarding first when possible is probably the best way to average equal access.

 

[Disneyadore]

I don't want preferred treatment but I don't think the general public wants wheelchair users to have equal access in this situation.

Otherwise when I get to the front of the line no one behind me can board until after I board.

Lift broken, too bad no one else boards. Already 2 wheelchairs on the bus, nope no one else can board. People won't get out of the tie down seats, Oh well no one else boards. Etc...

I don't think equal can be achieved but boarding first when possible is probably the best way to average equal access.

Could you explain to my why people in an EVC or wheelchair get preferred access to a ride and yelling at the CM gets access twice to the ride and we the "healthy" persons have to wait patience for one ride?
Again I needed to use an wheelchair and got preferred access and thought it was ridiculous and disgusting.

I thank Disney they made an end to this.

 

[BillSears]

Could you explain to my why people in an EVC or wheelchair get preferred access to a ride and yelling at the CM get access twice to the ride and we the "healthy" part have to wait patience for one ride?

I thank Disney they made and end to this.

Almost all ride lines are mainstreamed. So I don't have preferred access to most rides. I do have extra waits on many rides. I'd love to have equal access on the Kilimanjaro Safari, Buzz Lightyear, Toy Story Mania, Rock and Roller Coaster, Haunted Mansion(I haven't seen the stretching room in years), Tiki Room, Journey into Imagination and I'm sure others. These rides pull wheelchair users off to a separate line often once waiting through the normal line. So the wait is often longer for wheelchair users then for those walking.

As for riding twice the only place I've had that happen was on Buzz Lightyear and Big Thunder Mountain. For Buzz Lightyear no one was waiting for the wheelchair accessible car. So the CM asked me if I'd like to ride again. If I hadn't ridden twice the car would have been empty since it's not used for non-wheelchair guests. On Big Thunder Mountain sometimes they have an odd number of cars running and the only way to get back to your wheelchair to unload is for you to ride it twice.

 

[Ashtyn]

I would like to say something about equal access at Disney.

My mom cannot go on several rides because she can't get in the ride vehicles. There is no way on earth that I and several CM can get her out of the chair and into, lets say, test track. That ride would be held for about 20 minutes with us attempting to get her out. There is no equal access. If there was there would be a way for her to roll on to ride vehicle and strap in. On its a small world we do get to bypass the line then once inside we have to transfer to a regular WC and wait for the one ride vehicle that will accomodate a WC. Then I have to roll her down hill to postion and then at the end pull her up hill to get off.

I try to move her on and off as quickly as possible because I know that the rides have numbers to meet and to try not to upset those waiting in line behind us.

I hope those folks who are against the "special treatment" are never the ones who need it. They may be the ones yelling at CM and demanding special treatment.

I spoke with my mom after reading this thread last night. She is already concerned and we haven't even arrived at the parks yet. I told her after reading this thread that it appears they are trying it at EPCOT and then they will make a decision from there. EPCOT has usually been a difficult bus stop for her so maybe thats why they decided to try there first.

We arrive on Monday and hit the parks on Tuesday. We'll see whats happening and report back. I am hoping that I get helpful bus drivers who don't want me to navigate her wheelchair with people on the bus, especially children who are ansy to get going.

 

[KPeveler]

Could you explain to my why people in an EVC or wheelchair get preferred access to a ride and yelling at the CM gets access twice to the ride and we the "healthy" persons have to wait patience for one ride?
Again I needed to use an wheelchair and got preferred access and thought it was ridiculous and disgusting.

I thank Disney they made an end to this.

I think you are confused about how wheelchairs are handled. I know it may look like we just get on at the exit (I am thinking of Buzz and RnR here). What people do not realize is that we go through the regular line and THEN wait in ANOTHER line with other people with disabilities.

I do not skip lines in Disney - in fact, I almost always end up either skipping part of the attraction (I do not get to do the stretching room at HM) or waiting longer.

The last time I went on Jungle Cruise, I waited 45 minutes when the standby time was 10 minutes.

Wheelchairs and ECVs do not get special treatment. We wait just like everyone else, we just sometimes do it in another area.

Also, the only time I have ever seen anyone ride twice is when I am on BTMRR and my wheelchair is on hte other side (its a powerchair so they will not move it for me) or when I am in a special wheelchair accessible car (i.e. one a "healthy" person cannot use) and no one else is waiting for it. To load me they have to stop the right and inconvenience all the "healthy" people, so it is easier to ask if I want to go again, rather than have me come back again later in the day.

 

[watkinsme]

On moving a wheelchair/ECV. Drivers do not have to help you (but should), they are not to lift it in any fashion and we are not allowed to operate one.

Now, I will assist by giving directions or with the rental ECV's ask that one moves to a seat and I will release the transmission lever and free wheel the ECV into place. I will not operate one with the controls (really, I can't operate one well either), I won't move one with a rider on it but I will assist you in any way that I am allowed to.

During our trip 2 weeks ago I would say 90% gave me directions - a few were really helpful (I always said thank you after getting loaded and after they unloaded me) however we had 1 older man who was quite rude - it was early in my trip and I asked if he could help and he flat out told me no it wasn't his job - I finally got it in there right - I didn't report him I decided it wasn't worth it and maybe he was having a bad day or something

 

[mrsksomeday]

Maybe Disney should take out those seats where the wheelchairs/ecv's go? That way there would be no arguments as to whether someone had to move.

I get very sick of people saying that wheelchair/ecv users get or want preferential treatment. We have had to wait much longer for ride vehicles, we have had to watch several busses load able bodied people while we waited for a spot for Bill's wheelchair.

We have no issues with waiting because the bus is FREE and people need to remember that. I do think it is more efficient to have wheelchairs/ecv's in a separate line since they do load separately. Maybe they will get the kinks worked out with this merged then separated line? We will see, we will be there Nov. 30th - Dec. 13th.

 

[pampam]

Maybe Disney should take out those seats where the wheelchairs/ecv's go? That way there would be no arguments as to whether someone had to move.

I get very sick of people saying that wheelchair/ecv users get or want preferential treatment. We have had to wait much longer for ride vehicles, we have had to watch several busses load able bodied people while we waited for a spot for Bill's wheelchair.

We have no issues with waiting because the bus is FREE and people need to remember that. I do think it is more efficient to have wheelchairs/ecv's in a separate line since they do load separately. Maybe they will get the kinks worked out with this merged then separated line? We will see, we will be there Nov. 30th - Dec. 13th.

Perhaps this would work. There would be no argument where the WC's go and if there were no WC's to load it would make more standing room, so more people able to stnd could get on, increasing the capacity of the bus. Mind you, people standing there would still have to move, but they would not have to give up their seat.

 

[disneymiss]

I did not have any problems, everything was the same as many years as before.....the only thing different was at each bus stop there was a lined handicap spot...I asked about it and they said the scooter will have to fit in that square or it was to big to be loaded on the bus....this was to DOT quide lines....not Disney rules, so they were going to start their own Rental company so that the scooters were the right size so that they would not over hang in the isles......they did not say anything about the scooters or chairs that were or come from home.....I have my own scooter and it was fine size wise so as I said things werer find for I fit and my wheels did not hang over into the isle....so the companies out side of disney that rent scooters out will have to either get new smaller scooters or go out of business. seems the back wheel section is what is causing the problem with the DOT guidelines....

 

[KPeveler]

I did not have any problems, everything was the same as many years as before.....the only thing different was at each bus stop there was a lined handicap spot...I asked about it and they said the scooter will have to fit in that square or it was to big to be loaded on the bus....this was to DOT quide lines....not Disney rules, so they were going to start their own Rental company so that the scooters were the right size so that they would not over hang in the isles......they did not say anything about the scooters or chairs that were or come from home.....I have my own scooter and it was fine size wise so as I said things werer find for I fit and my wheels did not hang over into the isle....so the companies out side of disney that rent scooters out will have to either get new smaller scooters or go out of business. seems the back wheel section is what is causing the problem with the DOT guidelines....

The only off-site rental chair that is rented regularly is the Dream scooter. All of the larger scooters from off site will fit.

The size Disney made for the boxes is the legal size allowed by the ADA and therefore it is the size the buses are designed for.

Disney is just enforcing current federal policy a little more clearly now

 

[dclfun]

I just don't get the problem.
Disabled persons would like to get EQUAL TREATMENT not preferred so why not wait the same time as "healthy" persons?
And no I will not give up me seat for a wheelchair or EVC because I'm fighting cancer although I look healthy.
I need my seat just as much as a EVC person would need it. I just have to get in line and wait for our turn.
Sorry but this whole I'm in a wheelchair or EVC does not qualify you for preferred treatment.

Your post has really rubbed me the wrong way. We wait way longer for everything in most cases, than a "healthy" person. There is nothing equal about being in a wheelchair at WDW, especially for those who cannot transfer. For instance, many of us can ride very few attractions yet we still pay full price. When we can access an attraction we have to wait for accessible ride vehicles, we wait for an accessible bathroom, we have to arrive early to get a spot in an accessible parade viewing area, we have to maneuver our w/c's through crowds of people who are not paying attention, thus keeping us from enjoying the scenery, we wait for a bus to be able to load us and we get off the bus LAST. There's nothing preferential about loading into a bus first- it's a safety issue. I can only imagine the difficulty a bus driver will have in trying to tie down a w/c ( and in my case, with my service dog trying to find a safe place also) with people crowding around. If I find that I am denied boarding yet people are able to board after me, you'd better believe I'll be complaining about it. Also, people in the roped off queue lines who are "healthy" can leave that queue line if they have to but for myself in a power wheelchair, I'd have to back up and ask everyone behind me to move so I'd be stuck waiting with no idea of my possible wait time through potentially several busses. I can tell you that I often wait for more than one bus to start with as if the bus is boarding when I arrive I'm usually told to wait for the next one even if it ends up that there was plenty of space for me to board. So maybe you should try and see things from another point of view as it seems you are not aware of the realities of touring WDW in a w/c or ECV or the lesser and very unequal experience we have.---Kathy

 

[mrsksomeday]

Kathy thank you for the wonderfully worded post . You said things so much better than I could have. That post had bothered me too.

Bill has Cerebral Palsy, uses a power chair and can not transfer without help. We hardly ever do rides where he would need to transfer due to his trunk control issues.

 

[Disneyadore]

Your post has really rubbed me the wrong way. We wait way longer for everything in most cases, than a "healthy" person. There is nothing equal about being in a wheelchair at WDW, especially for those who cannot transfer. For instance, many of us can ride very few attractions yet we still pay full price. When we can access an attraction we have to wait for accessible ride vehicles, we wait for an accessible bathroom, we have to arrive early to get a spot in an accessible parade viewing area, we have to maneuver our w/c's through crowds of people who are not paying attention, thus keeping us from enjoying the scenery, we wait for a bus to be able to load us and we get off the bus LAST. There's nothing preferential about loading into a bus first- it's a safety issue. I can only imagine the difficulty a bus driver will have in trying to tie down a w/c ( and in my case, with my service dog trying to find a safe place also) with people crowding around. If I find that I am denied boarding yet people are able to board after me, you'd better believe I'll be complaining about it. Also, people in the roped off queue lines who are "healthy" can leave that queue line if they have to but for myself in a power wheelchair, I'd have to back up and ask everyone behind me to move so I'd be stuck waiting with no idea of my possible wait time through potentially several busses. I can tell you that I often wait for more than one bus to start with as if the bus is boarding when I arrive I'm usually told to wait for the next one even if it ends up that there was plenty of space for me to board. So maybe you should try and see things from another point of view as it seems you are not aware of the realities of touring WDW in a w/c or ECV or the lesser and very unequal experience we have.---Kathy

Maybe you should look at life as I do. Take every day with a "golden glow" and don't let trivial things spoil your day. After all what's an half hour waiting on a whole life?
FYI I used a wheelchair.

 

[pampam]

I just don't get the problem.
Disabled persons would like to get EQUAL TREATMENT not preferred so why not wait the same time as "healthy" persons?
And no I will not give up me seat for a wheelchair or EVC because I'm fighting cancer although I look healthy.
I need my seat just as much as a EVC person would need it. I just have to get in line and wait for our turn.
Sorry but this whole I'm in a wheelchair or EVC does not qualify you for preferred treatment.

If you were confined to a wheelchair as many posting here are, you would never have to give up your seat. Your experience with a wheelchair is more limited than theirs is. All we are simply suggesting is if you need to sit, because of cancer or whatever unseen disabilaty you may have, please choose a seat where you will not be asked to move to acomodate a wheelchair. You see, you have a choice of seats. People in wheelchairs don't. And please keep in mind, those boarding in wheelchairs first, are the last ones to leave the bus. The chairs were boarded first, not to give priority to those in wheelchairs, but to accomodate the driver for safety reasons. When you see them strapping down a WC, there is a lot of manuverability on their part. They are constantly working around the chair, first the back tires, then the front tires, then the seatbelts. It's a real chore, and if they are trying to do it with people around and in the way it can make a 5 minute job into much longer. This is also the reason why the wheelchair is the last to leave the bus. If those in wheelchairs are getting priority in loading first, what would you call it to be held back and disloaded last. Is that a priority too? By all means those in wheelchairs don't mind waiting. If there is a line for the wheelchairs to wait in, that's where they should be. This is certainly not meant as a slam against you. You are having your problems and health issues can be very tiring, and worrisome. You have my full support. It's just that those with limited mobility and being dependent on others is quite a challenge too. If we can make concessions for people and try to accomodate everyone it will be better for all.

 

[needtogomore]

I don't see you as being argumentative. This is a discussion, as long as we keep it civil, everybody wins.

I'll get the exact wording on the stickers this weekend, but if memory serves me right (probably not though) it states that you should offer those seats to the elderly and mobility impaired.

Here is my take on the mainstreamed queues, If a wheelchair is in line and it is determined that are in a position to make the bus, I'm going to pull you out of the line and load you first, because it is safer for all guests but you have got to be already in the line. I don't care how long it takes, I get paid by the hour. You just can not roll up and expect us to drop everything to load you IF there is already a line there. This is where some of the problems have been, a full line is already in the queue and a scooter wheels up and demands to be loaded. They are in effect, cutting the line.

I hope not to get flamed for this but I have found that if you are truly in need of the mobility device that there is great understanding of what I go through and you are very understanding, it's the guests that don't truly need the device that are the difficult ones (IE the ones trying to beat the system). I have had wheelchair bound guests stand up for me in some of these situations and for that I am truly grateful. I am not trying to generalize or state that any of you here are like this because I really believe in what this forum does for guests in a difficult situation.

I have a thick skin so other guests comments don't bother me and they should not bother you, they are just letting their ignorance show.

As a driver I'm hoping you can answer this, at MK you have the rails to line up in when you get to the front in a w/c ECV/ PC, if I remember correctly as the bus is angled, you would not be able to drive down the side of the bus , so you would have to go all the way round correct. if so what a stupid plan.

 

[needtogomore]

I just don't get the problem.
Disabled persons would like to get EQUAL TREATMENT not preferred so why not wait the same time as "healthy" persons?
And no I will not give up me seat for a wheelchair or EVC because I'm fighting cancer although I look healthy.
I need my seat just as much as a EVC person would need it. I just have to get in line and wait for our turn.
Sorry but this whole I'm in a wheelchair or EVC does not qualify you for preferred treatment.

Sorry about your cancer, but please post a link to a disabled person asking for preferred treatment. you really need to think about the equal treatment bit, their are only 2/3 spots on a bus thats it. because their are more non disabled than disabled, you will get more complaints, but I would put money on the fact disabled wait times are longer than non disabled, just they don't whine so much