New ECV Rules Oct. 1?

[KPeveler]

I sort of took a few pictures of the queue at Epcot...at least how it was on Oct 1st - I am sure they will be adjusting these as they go.

When you load it will tell you which number to follow and you go down these really wide lines that right now were created using rope.

This picture is taken from where I am sitting on the side waiting for the bus. PS - This picture above was taken AFTER all the people were gone that I had been waiting with. In fact, there were very few people waiting at all by the time I boarded a bus, as evidenced by the picture.

When you get toward the end of the line it opens up for the wheelchair to get out...It is about this far back in the line...I would say there would probably be about 25-50 people in front of you in line by the time the wheelchair "pops" out of the line to be loaded.

See the people in the line...

Ideally, I think the process should work so that you would get out of the line with enough time to either load on the same bus with the people you were waiting with...but they didn't stop the line when I came out.

And this doesn't take into account the double busing or more ECV's waiting to load (who have already waited in the mainstream line and are now waiting in the wheelchair line).

Basically it is all a toss up - reminds me of the accessible line at Toy Story or the Safari - you could end up waiting about the same amt of time as someone walking or you may have to wait considerably longer if there happen to be more wheelchairs in line ahead of you.

ps..no idea why the pics are so big...i will have to work on that in a bit... ??

As long as they load the wheelchair first when it gets to that point, it will work. If they load all those people, then the wheelchair, it will be too crowded to do it safely...

 

[dclfun]

I just got back from WDW but stayed at the Poly and only took the monorail. I really hate taking the busses to start with, but unfortunately they are often necessary even though I do everything to avoid them, including trekking all the way through Epcot or the Hollywood Studios walking path to get to monorail or boat. The change will be difficult for me as I often travel solo with my service dog. She has difficulty seeing the queue line chains and will travel under a rope/chain simply because she is going from point A to point B in the most efficient way to help me. Having the w/c boarding area was a blessing as we could stay away from other guests who often want to pet her and my medical equipment was safe from little hands and tight turns. I've had my ventilator circuits disconnected before by people bumping into them and/or my making a tight turn and getting them caught under the rope/chain. I will be quite vocal if I have safety and comfort issues, not complaining about the drivers of course but about a policy change that could endanger me, my SD, or my equipment.
On the other hand I have seen abuse first hand. It really is NOT fair for a w/c party to swoop in after others have waited in a long line and expect to get in front of others. You can eyeball the line and know if you'd have had to wait for a second bus due to the amount of guests already waiting and should wait your turn. I've seen a "magical gathering" of 15 people run up with a manual chair they then folded after myself and a guest in an ECV were loaded, basically preventing a huge crowd of people who were already waiting from boarding a bus at Pop...in the grueling July heat. Myself and the guest in the ECV were actually there early on, but how was the driver to know that? Of course *we* knew as did the other guests in queue. So...seeing both sides there really isn't anything that is totally fair to everyone-people with the mentality of the magical gathering party figure they are somehow entitled to bypass the lines whenever possible and I cringe at that sentiment. At this point though I would err on the side of safety. I will be back at WDW in December staying at AK Lodge, so I will be using the busses then. I hope at that point any issues have been resolved as I don't intend to have less than equal treatment. I just have never expected anything other than equal treatment- not better or faster, just equal.---Kathy

 

[lovetoscrap]

Just catching up on this. Wow! I really can not even imagine trying to load when there are people on the bus. I have done it and it was NOT pretty. I wonder what the ramifications are going to be when someone gets hit by an ECV trying to get into position or when someone gets their toes rolled over-- which I think is very likely to happen. As has been mentioned, many of these users are very unfamiliar with them and are lucky to get down a straight street without hurting anyone! (says the woman that knocked over an entire clothing rack her first time using a scooter!)

I have always said that yes, I get to load first, but I also have to unload last. So when you already at the turnstyle entering the park at rope drop I am still sitting there waiting for Joe and Suzy to gather up their 5 kids, 2 strollers and 4 bags and get off the bus. At the end of the night you may be already back to your room by the time I get off the bus. So to be equal does this mean they need to keep track of where I was in line so that I can be unloaded in the same order? (of course not, just looking at all the sides of the arguments)

And even if there is room to load the wc/ECV what if all the seats are taken? Now you have the person on but no where for them to sit? Essentially this means that the w/c will have to be loaded within the first *however many people as there are seats*. So even though the bus can still hold a large number of standers the wc has to wait. So this is again not equal access.


I agree that I have no idea what the answer is. Allowing those that roll up at the last minute really isn't fair, but neither is making someone wait 5 buses to be loaded. I think that the only true way to make it "equal" is to have CM's at every stop keeping track of the line and where in line the wc/ECV showed up, but that is not a reasonable option.

I guess that to me though I look at it as something that I just have to deal with. I know that I have to wait longer for most things-like a hc bathroom stall and getting through a crowd, and things are more difficult (reaching things on the top shelf, getting around in general) and I just have to accept it (within reason). Yes, it would be great to be able to be equal, but in order for that to happen I would have to be able to walk and that isn't happening (at WDW). Perhaps the word equitable is better than equal?

I am very interested to see what happens. I actually have driven with my family the last 2 trips and really can't imagine taking the buses again. If I do fly down I will probably be sure that I can rent a car because it really is just so much easier that way. But I am lucky that my scooter is very easy to load and unload.

 

[Capt. Barbosa]

Speaking for DW (wheelchair dependant) and myself we don't mind waiting in line and getting a equal chance to load, as a matter of fact we would rather have that then stand out as getting special treatment. I think as long as the driver can look at the line and can see that the WC/ECV passenger would load on this bus and take them on first to make it safe and easier on everyone the system should work fine.

 

[clkelley]

We were at Epcot at closing on Saturday night and had two ECVs, and experienced the mainstream queue there. We got in the regular line and when we got to the "popout", the bus was too full to load us, so we waited on the next bus. There were almost as many people behind us that got to board that bus as there were people in front of us.

Oh as far as the "Dream Scooters". We saw a couple of them still being loaded on the newer buses with ramps. The bus driver we spoke too told us that only the older RTS buses could not take them.

 

[SueM in MN]

In NYC (which uses the same buses as WDW), wheelchair/ECV riders are added to the bus from wherever they happen to be along the route. If people are sitting in the wheelchair/ECV space, they have to get up. No new passengers are loaded before the wheelchair/ECV gets loaded, but they don't empty the bus so that the wheelchair/ECV can be loaded first.

There are a couple of BIG, BIG differences in NYC.
First, most of the passengers using the buses are very familiar with public transportation. This includes those who are using wheelchairs/ECVs and the other passengers.
They 'know the drill' and are ready to respond in a way that gets the wheelchair/ECV loaded ASAP so everyone can be on their way.

Most of the guests using ECVs/wheelchairs are familiar with their equipment and how to operate it.

At WDW, many of the guests using the buses have never taken a bus before coming to WDW and have no idea how things operate.
Also, many of the guests using an ECV or pushing a wheelchair have never used one before and are not comfortable using it.

All of those things make WDW a much different place to take the bus than NYC.

You will find that all resorts are going to have the painted sizing box. This is where to wait for the bus.

Believe me, I can see several rows back in the line. I do sit higher up and have pretty good viability.

The way we pull into a load zone, there should not be a reason to come up to the driver to tell that there is a chair waiting, we can see you (Now, I don't speak for lazy drivers, unfortunately, you will still get some). The only times where there may be doubt is at a combined bus stop like POR, OKW, SSR, CBR, etc. There I will usually point to you and then to the marquee to see if you are taking my bus. You waving at me is usually a sign that you wish to ride with me too.

at OKW and SSR (the resorts I am usually at), we park DD's wheelchair where the bus driver will see it and make an exaggerated shake of the head for the buses we don't want.
When the one we want arrives, we point to DD's wheelchair and then nod our heads.

When you say "sticker" do you mean the ones above the seats where the wheelchairs/ecv's are placed? Do they have new stickers? I have a picture of the sticker from a previous trip, are there new ones? :​

The stickers are still the same as in your picture.

I cropped it from this picture:

Speaking for DW (wheelchair dependant) and myself we don't mind waiting in line and getting a equal chance to load, as a matter of fact we would rather have that then stand out as getting special treatment. I think as long as the driver can look at the line and can see that the WC/ECV passenger would load on this bus and take them on first to make it safe and easier on everyone the system should work fine.

One problem is that some of the new lines are what I would call 'No exit once you have entered' lines.
I don't have a good picture (at least not that I can find right now) of the OKW bus stop at Epcot, but I'll try to describe it and see if I can get a picture. (Note: This is not new; it's been this way since at least late last Spring).

It is a continuous fence made of thick metal posts and cross bars. It starts at the back of the bus loading area and continues with no openings, chains or places the fence could open until you get to the very front of the line.
The line is at least 3 feet wide, so it would be possible to drive an ECV or wheelchair in it.
There are no signs or anything to direct a wheelchair or ECV user to go anywhere other than in the line. When we have not gotten into the line and just parked near where the back door of the bus will be when it arrives, we are kind of in the way of guests getting off the bus.
When we have gotten in the line in the past, we have had the situation of the driver not seeing us and/or not loading us when there would have been room if we were loaded right away (when a bus pulls out with no one standing, there would have been room for a wheelchair).
We have also had the situation of being in the line and then someone else (usually 2 someone elses) pull up outside of the line and park where the driver will see them after we got in line, but before the bus came.
So, even though we were there before, we could not be loaded because the spots were already filled with the guests who came after us.

It is VERY unclear to guests with wheelchairs/ECVs what they are supposed to do at this point.

PS - I would like to thank cranbiz for his input - he has given very valuable information on this forum and also to me personally.
So, thanks so much and hope to meet you some day with my DD (look for a small blonde in a fuschia wheelchair).

 

[SueM in MN]

We were at Epcot at closing on Saturday night and had two ECVs, and experienced the mainstream queue there. We got in the regular line and when we got to the "popout", the bus was too full to load us, so we waited on the next bus. There were almost as many people behind us that got to board that bus as there were people in front of us.

Oh as far as the "Dream Scooters". We saw a couple of them still being loaded on the newer buses with ramps. The bus driver we spoke too told us that only the older RTS buses could not take them.

I saw one bus driver tell a guest they could not load the Dream Scooter at POR on Oct 1. The bus was one of the newer style buses with a ramp.
In fact, the driver had put down the ramp, got out and saw it was a Dream scooter and told the guest he could not load them.
By chance, I saw the same guest at AK a few days later with the Dream scooter, so some bus drivers are loading it.

I also saw a group that had 2 Dream scooters (each with a child on their lap, but that's another discussion) at MK today, but I have no way of knowing whether they got there by bus, monorail, boat or even going on the path from Contemporary to MK.

 

[icouldlivethere]

I don't expect special treatment but I do expect to be treated fairly. I think most of the bus drivers are great and I can tell that cranbiz is one of the good ones. I just wish they were all more like cranbiz. Unfortunately, I have had some that were not so good.

I try to avoid using the buses whenever possible. We have a Disney time share at the Boardwalk villas and try to stay there every trip we can. That way my DH can walk and I can ride my scooter to both Epcot and DHS. My DH even walks all the way through Epcot on days we go to MK so we can avoid taking buses by riding the monorail.

I do have to take a bus to AK and have skipped that park on some trips just to avoid taking the bus. Same with DD, I have skipped going there only because I didn't want to ride a bus. The one bad thing about staying at the BW is that it shares buses with other resorts and sometimes there will already be people on the bus when it arrives at your resort. We will also usually stay at a value resort on the first day of our trip and have to ride a bus to HS and then take the path to the BW from there.

Where I have gotten really frustrated is in trying to go to places like DD when there are already other people on the bus. I have had bus after bus pass me by telling me there will be another bus coming and been stranded for long periods of time waiting. I've been so frustrated I've been reduced to tears a few times.

I always hang back if I pull up and see that there are a lot of people that have been waiting longer than me and would never insist on being loaded if I had just arrived. Unfortunately, this has backfired on me a few times. I have hung back just to see that everybody waiting made it on the bus and there would have been room for me had I not hung back. Like someone else mentioned while waiting for another bus to arrive 2 more ECV riders could pull up and now they will have to wait because I didn't attempt to get on the previous bus.

Like I said, I think most of the bus drivers are great and I'm not going to allow the few bad apples to spoil my day. I really appreciate cranbiz coming on here and sharing what he knows with us and caring enough to listen to our stories. Thanks cranbiz!!

 

[mytripsandraces]

There are a couple of BIG, BIG differences in NYC.

First, most of the passengers using the buses are very familiar with public transportation. This includes those who are using wheelchairs/ECVs and the other passengers. They 'know the drill' and are ready to respond in a way that gets the wheelchair/ECV loaded ASAP so everyone can be on their way.

Most of the guests using ECVs/wheelchairs are familiar with their equipment and how to operate it.

At WDW, many of the guests using the buses have never taken a bus before coming to WDW and have no idea how things operate.
Also, many of the guests using an ECV or pushing a wheelchair have never used one before and are not comfortable using it.

All of those things make WDW a much different place to take the bus than NYC.

I realized after I posted that not everyone's home town has such advanced public transportation as NYC, so that might be part of the problem. I'm so used to getting on the trains and buses that I'm surprised anyone would rather drive. Hopefully, the drivers will be well trained and the more frequent visitors will see just how easy it can be. It's too bad the already-seated passengers can't be forced to move. I can't imagine anyone saying no, though. I've never seen it happen in NYC. Even my dad, who has limited mobility, will get up for a wheelchair/ECV passenger. Are the drivers trained to facilitate the parking of the wheelchairs and ECVs?

 

[maroo]

I realized after I posted that not everyone's home town has such advanced public transportation as NYC, so that might be part of the problem. I'm so used to getting on the trains and buses that I'm surprised anyone would rather drive. Hopefully, the drivers will be well trained and the more frequent visitors will see just how easy it can be. It's too bad the already-seated passengers can't be forced to move. I can't imagine anyone saying no, though. I've never seen it happen in NYC. Even my dad, who has limited mobility, will get up for a wheelchair/ECV passenger. Are the drivers trained to facilitate the parking of the wheelchairs and ECVs?

On two separate occasions we have had people sitting say no to moving.

No idea why - it may have been a legitimate need for a seat (we could not see into the bus each time)...

The 2nd time I could see in the bus and could see the lady shaking her head no, and frankly it looked like they were just being difficult - that was my impression from far away...like they were mad about it. That particular time we had a young lady in a powerchair that was obviously disabled, so I am not sure what the issue was for them not to give up their seat...but people do sometimes say no.

 

[cranbiz]

When you say "sticker" do you mean the ones above the seats where the wheelchairs/ecv's are placed? Do they have new stickers? I have a picture of the sticker from a previous trip, are there new ones? :​

I cropped it from this picture:

Yup, that's them. Those are on an RTS. I want to check the Gillig's and Nova's as I thought the wording was different.

 

[cranbiz]

On moving a wheelchair/ECV. Drivers do not have to help you (but should), they are not to lift it in any fashion and we are not allowed to operate one.

Now, I will assist by giving directions or with the rental ECV's ask that one moves to a seat and I will release the transmission lever and free wheel the ECV into place. I will not operate one with the controls (really, I can't operate one well either), I won't move one with a rider on it but I will assist you in any way that I am allowed to.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Those folks who would not move should remember a old saying..............*There but for the grace of GOD go I!*

enhff said!...........AKK

 

[Emagine]

If I were asked to move seats it would put me in a hard spot if there are no other seats. My heart would be screaming jump, move, help. The reason, I have two Autistic sons. One is almost 5 (sits in my lap) and one is 8. One can not stand on a moving bus due to control and muscles. The other is so darn spastic I have to hold him in my lap so it stays a peaceful ride for everyone. Luckily we use a double stroller we carry with us in the parks. We make sure to never board a bus unless there are seats and will gladly let ppl pass us by in line and wait on the next one.

Someone like me would have had to toss up getting off the bus and waiting for a seat or saying no with a very heavy heart. Most likely it would bug me all day long if I chose not to move. So I would have to pick my boys getting upset, potential loud meltdowns while getting off and one not understanding and waiting again or praying somehow the sweet soul could understand sometimes medical conditions are hidden.

I throw this out there because like you guys we fight our own little judgments and eye-rolling comments too. I try hard to convince myself that there is just not enough education but some ppl do continue to surprise me. While I am sure most who say no really do not have a reason, please keep in mind some may. I often see how threads go south when ppl judge someone in a scooter etc and if its needed. We get the same with a big kid in a wonkin big old stroller so I totally understand. But hey, hes too big for me to carry now Someday I/we may be just where you are so I try hard to keep my eyes open to the world around me but at the same time keeping my children as the most important choice I need to make.

I plan on trying to skip those seats altogether if possible when I go because it would seriously eat me up. So when I say we fight our own little comments and stuff along the way the truth is we are not too far behind you if he declines more. But all of us need to stick together and try to be positive because you just never know a person by the outside cover on or off a chair.

 

[maroo]

If I were asked to move seats it would put me in a hard spot if there are no other seats. My heart would be screaming jump, move, help. The reason, I have two Autistic sons. One is almost 5 (sits in my lap) and one is 8. One can not stand on a moving bus due to control and muscles. The other is so darn spastic I have to hold him in my lap so it stays a peaceful ride for everyone. Luckily we use a double stroller we carry with us in the parks. We make sure to never board a bus unless there are seats and will gladly let ppl pass us by in line and wait on the next one.

Someone like me would have had to toss up getting off the bus and waiting for a seat or saying no with a very heavy heart. Most likely it would bug me all day long if I chose not to move. So I would have to pick my boys getting upset, potential loud meltdowns while getting off and one not understanding and waiting again or praying somehow the sweet soul could understand sometimes medical conditions are hidden.

I throw this out there because like you guys we fight our own little judgments and eye-rolling comments too. I try hard to convince myself that there is just not enough education but some ppl do continue to surprise me. While I am sure most who say no really do not have a reason, please keep in mind some may. I often see how threads go south when ppl judge someone in a scooter etc and if its needed. We get the same with a big kid in a wonkin big old stroller so I totally understand. But hey, hes too big for me to carry now Someday I/we may be just where you are so I try hard to keep my eyes open to the world around me but at the same time keeping my children as the most important choice I need to make.

I plan on trying to skip those seats altogether if possible when I go because it would seriously eat me up. So when I say we fight our own little comments and stuff along the way the truth is we are not too far behind you if he declines more. But all of us need to stick together and try to be positive because you just never know a person by the outside cover on or off a chair.

I am so glad you posted this!

This makes total sense. I would definitely not expect anyone that needs the seats, for almost any reason, to give them up. Autism, back issues, heck...TONS of hidden disabilities out there that could cause someone to need the seats...so I am totally with you on this.

They just didn't have this "I am sorry, I can't move because..." look - it was a defiant "I am not moving" look. Very hard to explain, I suppose.

 

[crashbb]

If I were asked to move seats it would put me in a hard spot if there are no other seats. My heart would be screaming jump, move, help. The reason, I have two Autistic sons. One is almost 5 (sits in my lap) and one is 8. One can not stand on a moving bus due to control and muscles. The other is so darn spastic I have to hold him in my lap so it stays a peaceful ride for everyone. Luckily we use a double stroller we carry with us in the parks. We make sure to never board a bus unless there are seats and will gladly let ppl pass us by in line and wait on the next one.

Someone like me would have had to toss up getting off the bus and waiting for a seat or saying no with a very heavy heart. Most likely it would bug me all day long if I chose not to move. So I would have to pick my boys getting upset, potential loud meltdowns while getting off and one not understanding and waiting again or praying somehow the sweet soul could understand sometimes medical conditions are hidden.

I throw this out there because like you guys we fight our own little judgments and eye-rolling comments too. I try hard to convince myself that there is just not enough education but some ppl do continue to surprise me. While I am sure most who say no really do not have a reason, please keep in mind some may. I often see how threads go south when ppl judge someone in a scooter etc and if its needed. We get the same with a big kid in a wonkin big old stroller so I totally understand. But hey, hes too big for me to carry now Someday I/we may be just where you are so I try hard to keep my eyes open to the world around me but at the same time keeping my children as the most important choice I need to make.

I plan on trying to skip those seats altogether if possible when I go because it would seriously eat me up. So when I say we fight our own little comments and stuff along the way the truth is we are not too far behind you if he declines more. But all of us need to stick together and try to be positive because you just never know a person by the outside cover on or off a chair.

This is very true.

However, if I am having one of those days where I *need* to sit (Lupus flare) I don't sit in those seats. Since they are usually in the middle of the bus, they are not often the only seats left (at least, not in my city - I'm not in WDW enough to really say about there). I could probably stand during a flare if I needed to do so (easier than you and your sons can stand), but I do understand where you are coming from.

 

[Ashtyn]

I am due to check in next week with my mom who has severe RA and is scooter bound. She can toddle around with crutches but not far. The only way to get around has been to use the buses.

She has problems loading the scooters on the buses because she can't turn her head to see where she is going. We have learned that she needs to tell the driver to let me on and I will park her. Most will do and those that don't take way to long to try to navigate her by yelling at her. And yes I mean YELLING!

Now onto the line issue. We have seen groups of 10 or more get in the WC line and then get on the bus. How about limiting the amount of people getting on with the WC? unless of course small children. I am one of those people that will sit down near my mom and when the buses get full and there is a parent standing holding a child in their arms, jump up and give them my seat. I will stand behind the handle bars of the scooter by the window.

Sounds like EPCOT is the only are where the lines are together. If that is the case then maybe they should load the WC on the first bus if the driver knows there will be a second bus coming behind / next to him shortly. In the same amount of time that it would take to load a WC and the first bus, the second bus could be loaded.

I do have to agree that it might take a person (or small child) getting hurt by the WC being loaded after passengers to get this changed. Why would it have to come to that? Only the disney execs will know. I just hope its not a serious injury.

 

[KPeveler]

I am due to check in next week with my mom who has severe RA and is scooter bound. She can toddle around with crutches but not far. The only way to get around has been to use the buses.

She has problems loading the scooters on the buses because she can't turn her head to see where she is going. We have learned that she needs to tell the driver to let me on and I will park her. Most will do and those that don't take way to long to try to navigate her by yelling at her. And yes I mean YELLING!

Now onto the line issue. We have seen groups of 10 or more get in the WC line and then get on the bus. How about limiting the amount of people getting on with the WC? unless of course small children. I am one of those people that will sit down near my mom and when the buses get full and there is a parent standing holding a child in their arms, jump up and give them my seat. I will stand behind the handle bars of the scooter by the window.

Sounds like EPCOT is the only are where the lines are together. If that is the case then maybe they should load the WC on the first bus if the driver knows there will be a second bus coming behind / next to him shortly. In the same amount of time that it would take to load a WC and the first bus, the second bus could be loaded.

I do have to agree that it might take a person (or small child) getting hurt by the WC being loaded after passengers to get this changed. Why would it have to come to that? Only the disney execs will know. I just hope its not a serious injury.

They do limit the number of people who can load with a wheelchair - the party cannot total more than 6.

They have been loading wheelchairs first for ages, but apparently they are trying something new at Epcot. So far I have not heard good things... We'll see what happens!

 

[pampam]

On two separate occasions we have had people sitting say no to moving.

No idea why - it may have been a legitimate need for a seat (we could not see into the bus each time)...

The 2nd time I could see in the bus and could see the lady shaking her head no, and frankly it looked like they were just being difficult - that was my impression from far away...like they were mad about it. That particular time we had a young lady in a powerchair that was obviously disabled, so I am not sure what the issue was for them not to give up their seat...but people do sometimes say no.

If the sticker said those sitting there mustmove for a scooter or wheelchair I thought that was pretty much the rule. If you didn't want to take that chance, you wouldn't sit there. I could be wrong, but my understanding is you choose to sit there with the understanding you must move if required, ot the American's with Disabilities Act could be called in. I thought it had the teeth to enforce it. Not trying to start a war, here, but I truly thought you had to vacate those seats for a scooter or wheelchair.

 

[mytripsandraces]

If the sticker said those sitting there mustmove for a scooter or wheelchair I thought that was pretty much the rule. If you didn't want to take that chance, you wouldn't sit there. I could be wrong, but my understanding is you choose to sit there with the understanding you must move if required, ot the American's with Disabilities Act could be called in. I thought it had the teeth to enforce it. Not trying to start a war, here, but I truly thought you had to vacate those seats for a scooter or wheelchair.

I thought so, too. In NYC, it certainly isn't presented as a choice. I try to leave those seats for people who need them, anyway, and will only sit there if they're the only seats left. I have had to get up because a wheelchair was getting on, but the driver didn't have to ask. When we pulled up to the stop and saw the wheelchair, all three of us in the wheelchair seat had already moved by the time the driver got back to open the door and the ramp.