New Issue with the buses as well as an old one

[Talking Hands]

Transportation is now requiring that you remove your backpack from your wheelchair prior to boarding claiming safety reasons. Since my backpack is attached to the wheelchair and requires a lot to remove I refused. Basically it was empty except for a rain poncho and a few necessary tools for quick repairs. Nothing heavy. Apparently this has just been instituted at the beginning of this month.
I was left in the sun for 30minutes without being told that a supervisor was being called. I was not offered the option to move to a shady spot. Just left there with the bus waiting while those who were not in wheelchairs were loaded on a second bus. I have sent a complaint to Guest Services but who knows what will happen. I am really getting sick of transportation making blanket decisions on what we can do to make life easier for us or telling us they know better how to deal with our wheelchair than they do.

Also the new system at Magic Kingdom is not equal access for all. They are doing it in a manner that requires the wheelchair guest to wait for another bus even if they would have been able to board if they were not using a wheelchair. This as I said is not equal access especially when they continue to load people not in wheelchairs that are behind me in line. Sorry that doesn't cut it. If they make me wait then everyone behind me needs to wait as well. THAT IS EQUAL ACCESS!

 

[Michigan]

As a parent of 2 kids in wheelchairs I noticed that there were changes that made Disney less wheelchair friendly to families with more then one wheelchair. Used to be I could roll both chairs on the boats in it’s a small world but not anymore only one chair is allowed in the boat “for the safety of the cast member”. So now I have to roll one chair on and have that kid transfer out and the oldest one roll on. Not allowed to have 2 chairs in the loading are for thunder mountain so I have to carry my 78 pound child and throw her into a seat. Buzz Lightyear my youngest used to roll onto the wheelchair accessible car transfer out of her chair into the seat and her sister would wheel in and stay in her chair. Now they have to call and have permission to have 2 chairs on the stopped belt. Spaceship earth won’t even let them both ride at the same time because they can’t walk. It just seems that there is less and less common sense being used by Disney where full time disabled people are involved.

 

[bopper]

Is it possible that they had to evacuate a Space Ship Earth with more than two non-walking riders with only one family member to help with them?

 

[Michigan]

Is it possible that they had to evacuate a Space Ship Earth with more than two non-walking riders with only one family member to help with them?

No there were 3 able bodied people with the 2 non walking. When each of my n on walking kids rode the ride anyone in the disability section that could stand up and walk was put on the ride. You don't have to have anyone with you to ride the ride if you are unable to walk which means there must be cast members to assist in the event of an evacuation. Also when they load 5 people from the disability spot to ride the ride none of them should be able to walk down the stairs unassisted if they can they don't need disability access.

 

[disney david]

No there were 3 able bodied people with the 2 non walking. When each of my n on walking kids rode the ride anyone in the disability section that could stand up and walk was put on the ride. You don't have to have anyone with you to ride the ride if you are unable to walk which means there must be cast members to assist in the event of an evacuation. Also when they load 5 people from the disability spot to ride the ride none of them should be able to walk down the stairs unassisted if they can they don't need disability access.

yes if their more then one wheel chairs it take longer to get everyone off so it a safety issue which Disney in the right. They can limit how many on the ride if they can prove it unsafe just in case the ride breaks down or something else worse happens. It might seem unfair but it for your safety and the safety of the guest around you Disney must be able to get everyone off the ride in a safe and timely manor now if they decided they can't do that with more then one wheel chair or if their people on the ride that need extra time then that what they have to do to make sure you and your kids are safe. I am sorry if that sounds bad but i think everyone safety should come first. If they are doing it for any other reason then yes they are breaking the law but if they can prove it a safety issue then they are not breaking the law.

 

[deegack]

No there were 3 able bodied people with the 2 non walking. When each of my n on walking kids rode the ride anyone in the disability section that could stand up and walk was put on the ride. You don't have to have anyone with you to ride the ride if you are unable to walk which means there must be cast members to assist in the event of an evacuation. Also when they load 5 people from the disability spot to ride the ride none of them should be able to walk down the stairs unassisted if they can they don't need disability access.

Just because someone can walk down some stairs doesn't mean they do not need disability access. There are a lot of disabilities that you can't see and that may be intermittent. For example my nephew needs to be away from crowds, my DH had back issues and needed to sit periodically even though he could walk with a cane.

I'm sorry you were upset with the treatment you received.

 

[Michigan]

Just because someone can walk down some stairs doesn't mean they do not need disability access. There are a lot of disabilities that you can't see and that may be intermittent. For example my nephew needs to be away from crowds, my DH had back issues and needed to sit periodically even though he could walk with a cane.

I'm sorry you were upset with the treatment you received.

Sorry about that I thought I put a scooter or wheelchair and disability access. My point is on one ride cycle I doubt if half the people on it would be able to do the stairs without assistance. Even parents with more then 2 small children would have a hard time evacuating but they don't stop and make them ride different cycles. The whole point of the post is that Disney continues to make changes that don't make sense like the backpack issue on buses.

 

[Bete]

I will be prepared to use other means to haul what I need on my mom's wheelchair.

I recently installed a mesh containment unit to the bottom of my wheelchair. It can fold right up with the wheelchair; as long as, there's nothing in it. It can hold a blanket and a sweater when the wheelchair is open.

If you get the right kind of diaper bag it can hang on both arms of the wheelchair. You need a longer strap, but it works for me. This can be taken off easily and it's not too heavy. I use a cloth one. It's like having a big purse.

I believe the backpack issue may be a problem when there's a pusher to a wheelchair. Since two have to fit on the lift I could see how a bigger backpack could cause problems with someone behind.

 

[Talking Hands]

I will be prepared to use other means to haul what I need on my mom's whelchair.

I recently installed a mesh containment unit to the bottom of my wheelchair. It can fold right up with the wheelchair; as long as, there's nothing in it. It can hold a blanket and a sweater when the wheelchair is open.

If you get the right kind of diaper bag it can hang on both arms of the wheelchair. You need a longer strap, but it works for me. This can be taken off easily and it's not too heavy. I use a cloth one. It's like having a big purse.

I believe the backpack issue may be a problem when there's a pusher to a wheelchair. Since two have to fit on the lift I could see how a bigger backpack could cause problems with someone behind.

My wheelchair is a power wheelchair. It does not have push handles so the backpack is attached around the back of the seat. That makes it hard to take off when I am unaccompanied which I often am. I am going to do some measurements and see if I can sew a cover that would also have pockets to put things. Also for me the concern is tipping forward not back as the chair is center weighted.

 

[Ms_Butterfly]

Did anyone say anything about why they implemented the new backpack policy?

As for Space Mountain, I remember one time (five or more years ago) I went on it with a friend who was using an ECV so we were using the back entrance/exit. I heard the CMs say that there was a limit on how many ppl with mobility issues can be on the ride at one time. Not sure if that's what the above poster experienced, but if so, the CMs really need to explain that the reason is safety or they leave everybody wondering!

 

[WheelieBigDisFan]

Also the new system at Magic Kingdom is not equal access for all. They are doing it in a manner that requires the wheelchair guest to wait for another bus even if they would have been able to board if they were not using a wheelchair. This as I said is not equal access especially when they continue to load people not in wheelchairs that are behind me in line. Sorry that doesn't cut it. If they make me wait then everyone behind me needs to wait as well. THAT IS EQUAL ACCESS!

Lisbet,
I am sorry you had to wait, although I a bit confused as to when you were required to wait. If you are talking about when you had to wait 30 min in the sun while a supervisor was being called, then I can certainly understand why they continued loading other passengers onto busses to head to MK. Since you happened to be in a WC and needed further assistance from a sup since you had an issue with the implementation of a new policy, everyone else shouldn't have to wait for your issue to be resolved.

If you are talking about a separate situation I apologize. If this is the situation I can see two scenarios:
1) Usually a bus can only hold a certain number of wheelchairs (dependent on the number of wheelchair spaces and tie downs they have on the bus), and I believe at WDW it is 2-3 per bus. If the bus you were trying to enter had all of their wheelchair spaces occupied, then you would have to wait for another bus. If however there were spaces available for AB people on that bus, I don't see why they should have to wait for YOU (with extra needs) to find a bus that had accessible seating areas open. Hopefully the bus driver for the full bus will radio in that there is a WC user waiting for a bus and have someone pick you up quickly. It would be a shame for a bus to leave 1/2 empty (or worse yet without picking ANYONE up, since technically WC's should load first) b/c "equal access" means that if you can't load then no one can!

2) The bus you wanted to load was not full in the accessible seating area, and you could have been granted access to the bus, but for whatever reason was denied (or refused?) loading. If there were wheelchair spaces available but the driver refused to load you BECAUSE of your wheelchair, that is discrimination and you should report that to a transportation lead ASAP! That type of treatment is NOT okay and definitely what I expect of ANY Disney CM. If there are wheelchair spaces available the driver should load you FIRST and after you are on board allow AB passengers to load. If you were waiting for the rear entrance of the bus and the driver completely ignored you and loaded the bus with all AB's, blocking access to the wheelchair spots then again, you need to report this to a transportation lead ASAP.

 

[seashoreCM]

It would be a shame for a bus to leave 1/2 empty (or worse yet without picking ANYONE up, since technically WC's should load first) b/c "equal access" means that if you can't load then no one can!

This ended up in the ADA law because companies were not religious about sending another vehicle forthwith when a wheelchair guest was pushed aside.

The driver can take his sweet time negotiating with others to move away from the back door to let a wheelchair rider on. He would not be violating the ADA law if he did not depart until the next bus arrived for the wheelchair guest.

Probably 90% of the incidents would be amicably resolved on the spot by giving the wheelchair guest and his party a round of fastpasses good anywhere anytime.

What is an AB passenger?

 

[SueM in MN]

I believe part of the reason Talking Hands had to wait was that she refused to remove the backpack because that would be difficult for her to do. At the same time, the driver refused to load her wheelchair with the backpack on, citing a new policy.
So, that meant she was waiting 30 minutes in the sun for a supervisor to arrive. (I agree, at least letting her move to the shade would have made sense during the wait - they still would have known she was there).

The other situation is that they are changing bus boarding areas at the parks to have the lines accessible and have guests with wheelchairs and ECVs wait in the regular line with everyone else. This means that by the time the guest with a wheelchair gets to the front of the line, the bus could be too full to load a wheelchair or ECV safely, even if all the seats are not full and the bus still has room for many other passengers to load.

Posters have reported this happening, especially when it was busy and then a second bus pulls up behind the first, sort of slanted in the stop in a way that the Ramp or lift could not be used. So, the person was not allowed to get onto the first bus and the second bus pulled up in a way they could not load. The end result is that many people who were behind the guest using a wheelchair or ECV were loaded.

 

[SueM in MN]

This ended up in the ADA law because companies were not religious about sending another vehicle forthwith when a wheelchair guest was pushed aside.

The driver can take his sweet time negotiating with others to move away from the back door to let a wheelchair rider on. He would not be violating the ADA law if he did not depart until the next bus arrived for the wheelchair guest.

Probably 90% of the incidents would be amicably resolved on the spot by giving the wheelchair guest and his party a round of fastpasses good anywhere anytime.

What is an AB passenger?

AB = able bodied

There is nothing in the ADA that says what you wrote.
A bus driver had told me and sent me a link to a federal transportation law about buses. I lost the link and can no longer find it so I don't have a 'source of truth' for that information. It was NEVER in the ADA though.
The main points were if a bus pulled up to a stop, a person with a wheelchair Was waiting, but could not be loaded onto the bus, that bus was considered "full" at that stop and could not load any other passengers at that stop.

If someone is sitting in the spots needed to place a wheelchair or ECV, the driver is supposed to ask those passengers to move so the wheelchair/ECV should be loaded. Most drivers are very good about this, but people have reported experiences where a small number of drivers did NOT ask (probably so they would not have to load the wheelchair).
We had one situation where most seats were empty, but the driver pointed toward the wheelchair seats and said he could not load us and we would have to wait for the next bus because a group was sitting in those seats.
Those people overheard and moved, even though the driver did not (and probably would not) have asked them to. We got on the bus, I watched the dtiver's tie down carefully, and when we got off, we had the driver's name plus a picture of the number on the back of the bus. We reported him.

That doesn't happen often, but there are some bad apples in every barrel.

About Fastpasses - they don't fix everything.
Bus drivers don't have them (even regular Fastpasses); that would be a guest recovery CM, which would mean more wait when the guest just wants to get on the bus.
Most guests with wheelchairs and ECVs just want to get where they are going with no more fuss than AB guests.
Many guests traveling with wheelchairs and ECVs are not going to be riding most of the Fastpass attractions anyway because of the warnings.

If there is a problem, I want it fixed so my family and other guests like us don't run into the same problem again.

 

[Piper]

AB = able bodied

There is nothing in the ADA that says what you wrote.
A bus driver had told me and sent me a link to a federal transportation law about buses. I lost the link and can no longer find it so I don't have a 'source of truth' for that information. It was NEVER in the ADA though.
The main points were if a bus pulled up to a stop, a person with a wheelchair Was waiting, but could not be loaded onto the bus, that bus was considered "full" at that stop and could not load any other passengers at that stop.

If someone is sitting in the spots needed to place a wheelchair or ECV, the driver is supposed to ask those passengers to move so the wheelchair/ECV should be loaded. Most drivers are very good about this, but people have reported experiences where a small number of drivers did NOT ask (probably so they would not have to load the wheelchair).
We had one situation where most seats were empty, but the driver pointed toward the wheelchair seats and said he could not load us and we would have to wait for the next bus because a group was sitting in those seats.
Those people overheard and moved, even though the driver did not (and probably would not) have asked them to. We got on the bus, I watched the dtiver's tie down carefully, and when we got off, we had the driver's name plus a picture of the number on the back of the bus. We reported him.

That doesn't happen often, but there are some bad apples in every barrel.

About Fastpasses - they don't fix everything.
Bus drivers don't have them (even regular Fastpasses); that would be a guest recovery CM, which would mean more wait when the guest just wants to get on the bus.
Most guests with wheelchairs and ECVs just want to get where they are going with no more fuss than AB guests.
Many guests traveling with wheelchairs and ECVs are not going to be riding most of the Fastpass attractions anyway because of the warnings.

If there is a problem, I want it fixed so my family and other guests like us don't run into the same problem again.

ditto!!

 

[DuchessOnWheels]

Transportation is now requiring that you remove your backpack from your wheelchair prior to boarding claiming safety reasons. Since my backpack is attached to the wheelchair and requires a lot to remove I refused. Basically it was empty except for a rain poncho and a few necessary tools for quick repairs. Nothing heavy. Apparently this has just been instituted at the beginning of this month.
I was left in the sun for 30minutes without being told that a supervisor was being called. I was not offered the option to move to a shady spot. Just left there with the bus waiting while those who were not in wheelchairs were loaded on a second bus. I have sent a complaint to Guest Services but who knows what will happen. I am really getting sick of transportation making blanket decisions on what we can do to make life easier for us or telling us they know better how to deal with our wheelchair than they do.

Also the new system at Magic Kingdom is not equal access for all. They are doing it in a manner that requires the wheelchair guest to wait for another bus even if they would have been able to board if they were not using a wheelchair. This as I said is not equal access especially when they continue to load people not in wheelchairs that are behind me in line. Sorry that doesn't cut it. If they make me wait then everyone behind me needs to wait as well. THAT IS EQUAL ACCESS!

I'm curious, since CM's aren't allowed to assist in some ways with loading, will they remove my backpack from the handles of my chair for me? And then replace it when I get off the bus?

 

[dclfun]

I have a ventilator in a custom backpack on the back of my chair. I can see the new "arguments" coming and my having to explain what it is and why it can;'t be removed. I also can ONLY go forward on the lift ramps because I don't want it or the circuits caught in the lift. I'm sure this came from someone who had a problem and I can understand the reasoning, but if you're travelling solo, what a pain.---Kathy

 

[Talking Hands]

Was given fastpasses for the first no backpack problem. Of course they are useless to me as my husband I do not ride the thrill type rides.

I have written Disney about both problems.
I am sure that the no backpacks came about from one person overloading their backpack and being injured. Of course it is a blanket policy with no regard to the type of "ECV" or whether it is a rental or personal "ECV". A rental is unlikely to have backpack attached in the manner mine is. Since I have no push handles, the backpack is secured to the actual chair back by the straps. Very difficult to remove and requires considerable time and effort. The tendency for this power wheelchair is to tip forward not backward.
I am sure Kathy will not let CMs remove her ventilator backpack and place it in her lap or on the floor to comply with this edict. That would endanger her life.

With the second problem, I think the solution is better training of the people tending the lines. Make sure that if the person in the wheelchair would be able to get on the bus and have a seat gets on that bus. I wouldn't not have had an issue with it if there was standing room only, if there were already other wheelchairs in line ahead of me or if those behind me had not been loaded onto the bus.

My biggest complaint with the backpack incident is not the policy per se but the fact I was left sitting in the sun until a supervisor arrived (30 minutes or more) and that it was never communicated to me that a supervisor was being called. I don't like the new policy at all as I feel that for those of us that use personal power wheelchairs or scooters have a better knowledge about the capabilities of our wheelchair and have accessorized them to what works for us. Its not like I am carrying 30 pounds of text books in my backpack.
And Disney loses with this policy as I will buy less with no place to stow my purchases. I know I bought less this trip because of the policy. I usually buy a bunch of stuff for my grandson and this time I bought just one outfit and no toys, DVDs, etc.

 

[Scrap4me]

As a parent of 2 kids in wheelchairs I noticed that there were changes that made Disney less wheelchair friendly to families with more then one wheelchair. Used to be I could roll both chairs on the boats in it’s a small world but not anymore only one chair is allowed in the boat “for the safety of the cast member”. So now I have to roll one chair on and have that kid transfer out and the oldest one roll on. Not allowed to have 2 chairs in the loading are for thunder mountain so I have to carry my 78 pound child and throw her into a seat. Buzz Lightyear my youngest used to roll onto the wheelchair accessible car transfer out of her chair into the seat and her sister would wheel in and stay in her chair. Now they have to call and have permission to have 2 chairs on the stopped belt. Spaceship earth won’t even let them both ride at the same time because they can’t walk. It just seems that there is less and less common sense being used by Disney where full time disabled people are involved.

I do understand your frustration with this situation. This does comes down to a safety issue. Here is the scenario, if for some reason while you are experiencing the ride itself, it becomes necessary for a quick and immediate evacuation, (think onboard fire) then how are you (1 person) going to quickly and immediately guide 2 wheelchair dependent individuals off of the ride? There are no certainties that there will be someone to help you. This is foresight on the part of Disney, they are not trying to hinder you. While we hope to never learn of this ever happening, there is a possibility. Many of us will gladly help in a situation such as this, but there are those who will pretend to not see you..Let patience be your companion in situations such as these, many will simply never understand what your daily obstacles may be.

 

[KPeveler]

I do understand your frustration with this situation. This does comes down to a safety issue. Here is the scenario, if for some reason while you are experiencing the ride itself, it becomes necessary for a quick and immediate evacuation, (think onboard fire) then how are you (1 person) going to quickly and immediately guide 2 wheelchair dependent individuals off of the ride? There are no certainties that there will be someone to help you. This is foresight on the part of Disney, they are not trying to hinder you. While we hope to never learn of this ever happening, there is a possibility. Many of us will gladly help in a situation such as this, but there are those who will pretend to not see you..Let patience be your companion in situations such as these, many will simply never understand what your daily obstacles may be.

actually, even if there are enough able-bodied people with you, they still will not let 2 wheelchairs together on many rides. I travel Disneyland frequently with other wheelchair users and even when 2 wheelchairs are allowed on at once, we are sometimes told to break up, so we are not allowed to sit together... no idea the reasoning behind that one...

About the backpack issue - what do they intend me to do with my backpack? I too have a backpack that I cannot remove from my wheelchair, at least not without someone else. it contains medical equipment I must have with me. I understand on rides and such why I need to take off a backpack (I already did this on TSM), but if you are strapped down properly on a bus, there is no reason to take it off.

I cannot reach the floor from my wheelchair, and I often (usually) travel alone. So where exactly do the bus drivers suggest I put it?

And about Buzz and other moving walkway rides... If the belt is stopped, why is loading with two wheelchairs a safety risk? How is it any different than when you are on a sidewalk with two wheelchairs?

And the boat in Small World was MADE for more than one wheelchair I thought? I don't understand...

I have seen a number of situations recently where decisions are being made which are not terribly helpful for wheelchair users...