New Issue with the buses as well as an old one

[pampam]

Now I'm confused. They way you are describing it, WC users wait in the same line as everyone else at MK. If they can't be accomodated they are refused entry, and must wait for another bus while everyone else is allowed to continue. Is this correct?

 

[dclfun]

The bus issue you mention seems to be a law. There are signs posted above those seats about them needing to be used to tie down wheelchairs/ecvs. It was not a case of one person's disability over anothers.

In IrishIZ's case though, they were seated with a disabled child and should also have been entitled to have the seat so as not to have to hold her while standing, if I'm interpreting her post correctly. IMO they should not have loaded a w/c after everyone else was boarded and seated. I would never expect for someone to be moved if I arrive after boarding has started. I would wait for the next bus if the one I came up to was full. I think this is part of where this problem started though, with people in chairs and ECV's arriving after boarding began and then expecting to be accommodated, even if they would not have been able to get on the bus if they were at the back of the line behind others who were waiting.

 

[livndisney]

In IrishIZ's case though, they were seated with a disabled child and should also have been entitled to have the seat so as not to have to hold her while standing, if I'm interpreting her post correctly. IMO they should not have loaded a w/c after everyone else was boarded and seated. I would never expect for someone to be moved if I arrive after boarding has started. I would wait for the next bus if the one I came up to was full. I think this is part of where this problem started though, with people in chairs and ECV's arriving after boarding began and then expecting to be accommodated, even if they would not have been able to get on the bus if they were at the back of the line behind others who were waiting.

I once thought that too, but according to what I have been told those seats are for the disabled traveling with wheelchairs/ecvs. Some of the signs on the buses seem to reflect that as well. We have been in the same position so I completley understand the frustration Irish had. Now we avoid those seats altogether. My original understanding was those seats were for the "disabled". I have been corrected many times here and at WDW that those seats for for ECVS.

Now if the person arrived after boarding had begun, the should have waited for the next bus.

I have to agree that an ecv should not arrive and expect to be loaded after loading has started.

 

[SueM in MN]

In IrishIZ's case though, they were seated with a disabled child and should also have been entitled to have the seat so as not to have to hold her while standing, if I'm interpreting her post correctly. IMO they should not have loaded a w/c after everyone else was boarded and seated. I would never expect for someone to be moved if I arrive after boarding has started. I would wait for the next bus if the one I came up to was full. I think this is part of where this problem started though, with people in chairs and ECV's arriving after boarding began and then expecting to be accommodated, even if they would not have been able to get on the bus if they were at the back of the line behind others who were waiting.

There is another situation where people would be expected to move.
A lot of people choose those seats by the back door because they can put their stroller underneath or in the space between the seats. Many times, those particular seats are some of the first to fill up.
We have gotten on the bus at times on our resort where most of the bus was empty, but those seats were full when the bus arrived at our stop.
In those situations, the driver should ask the people to move and take other seats because those are the only ones where the wheelchair or ECV can be placed.

To avoid being asked to move, it's best to not sit in those seats near the back door with the signs if there is another choice to sit.
I was not clear to me whether all the seats were full in IrishIZ case and/or whether the driver knew that her child was disabled and could not stand. If the driver knew she was disabled, they should not have been asked to move unless there were other seats or someone else was willing to give them a seat. Someone sitting in one of the other seats with a sign could have been asked to move to make room for them if the seats they were sitting on were needed for an ECV.

I do expect the driver to ask someone to move if there are other seats. We avoid going to the stop at a park if we can see there are more people waiting than will get seated.
The other problem I see is that in many of the 'Standing Room Only' buses we have been on, there are as many as 10 seats in the very back of the bus, but several people toward the back block the way because the rest of their party is seated farther up and they won't move away from them.

 

[SueM in MN]

I once thought that too, but according to what I have been told those seats are for the disabled traveling with wheelchairs/ecvs. Some of the signs on the buses seem to reflect that as well. We have been in the same position so I completley understand the frustration Irish had. Now we avoid those seats altogether. My original understanding was those seats were for the "disabled". I have been corrected many times here and at WDW that those seats for for ECVS.

Now if the person arrived after boarding had begun, the should have waited for the next bus.

I have to agree that an ecv should not arrive and expect to be loaded after loading has started.

There are 2 different types of signs. The ones above the seats by the front door and next to the back door where those seats don't fold up say:
Please offer these seats to the elderly and persons with disabilities.

The signs above the seats which can be folded up to make a wheelchair or ECV space say:
PRIORITY SEATING
Passengers must give up these seats to guests using wheelchairs/scooters
(their underlining)

So the sign does alert that anyone sitting there should be aware they will be asked to move if the area is needed by someone who can only use that seat because of a wheelchair or ECV.
Anyone who needs a seat would be best off choosing a different bench where they would not be asked to move.
If someone with a disability is sitting there and is asked to move when there are no other seats they can get to easily, they should explain to the driver that they have a disability and need to sit. It would be up the driver then to decide whether the guest with a wheelchair/ECV will be able to board and to possibly find another seat for the guests with disabilities who were sitting there.

 

[livndisney]

There are 2 different types of signs. The ones above the seats by the front door and next to the back door where those seats don't fold up say:
Please offer these seats to the elderly and persons with disabilities.

The signs above the seats which can be folded up to make a wheelchair or ECV space say:
PRIORITY SEATING
Passengers must give up these seats to guests using wheelchairs/scooters
(their underlining)

So the sign does alert that anyone sitting there should be aware they will be asked to move if the area is needed by someone who can only use that seat because of a wheelchair or ECV.
Anyone who needs a seat would be best off choosing a different bench where they would not be asked to move.
If someone with a disability is sitting there and is asked to move when there are no other seats they can get to easily, they should explain to the driver that they have a disability and need to sit. It would be up the driver then to decide whether the guest with a wheelchair/ECV will be able to board and to possibly find another seat for the guests with disabilities who were sitting there.

Yep, I was just on a bus with the two different signs-they were right next to each other LOL. I knew I should have taken a pic. Both signs were over the bench seats that fold up.

 

[SueM in MN]

Yep, I was just on a bus with the two different signs-they were right next to each other LOL. I knew I should have taken a pic. Both signs were over the bench seats that fold up.

Well, it just so happens that I have pictures of the signs above the wheelchair spots. I just downloaded them.
Here is the first kind of sign

This is the second kind of sign above those seats

This one is pretty easy to see on the bus, but hard to take a picture of since it is clear with black letters.

 

[Talking Hands]

Now I'm confused. They way you are describing it, WC users wait in the same line as everyone else at MK. If they can't be accomodated they are refused entry, and must wait for another bus while everyone else is allowed to continue. Is this correct?

Well that is what it should be but in truth you are asked to wait even if there is enough room for you to be accommodated. I was near the front of the line and could have easily been accommodated but was asked to wait for the next bus but all those behind me were allowed to board. I was the only one left. Not right IMO.

 

[pampam]

Well that is what it should be but in truth you are asked to wait even if there is enough room for you to be accommodated. I was near the front of the line and could have easily been accommodated but was asked to wait for the next bus but all those behind me were allowed to board. I was the only one left. Not right IMO.

I agree with you. You have waited your turn, and then you are told to wait again, while those who were behind you were allowed to go straight onto the bus. Is this the ADA compliant? I'm from Canada, so I don't know the rules, but I think if this is being done, then no one from behind should be allowed to enter the bus either. If my thinking is wrong, please correct me (nicely).

 

[LPZ_Stitch!]

Now if the person arrived after boarding had begun, the should have waited for the next bus.

I have to agree that an ecv should not arrive and expect to be loaded after loading has started.

Why? All of the able-bodied people who show up after the bus starts loading get to pile on until there's no more room on the bus.

However, I must admit I'm of two minds on this. The idea of sending half-empty busses around the parks just because they couldn't accomodate a third WC/ECV strikes me as very wasteful.

But, I don't see how it's fair that wheelchairs have to the "first in line" to have any chance of getting on the busses, anymore....

What was wrong with loading the WC/ECVs first (through the back doors) and then letting everyone else pile on?

How does this work, when you get up to the front doors in your WC, you then roll around to the side door?

 

[livndisney]

Why? All of the able-bodied people who show up after the bus starts loading get to pile on until there's no more room on the bus.

However, I must admit I'm of two minds on this. The idea of sending half-empty busses around the parks just because they couldn't accomodate a third WC/ECV strikes me as very wasteful.

But, I don't see how it's fair that wheelchairs have to the "first in line" to have any chance of getting on the busses, anymore....

What was wrong with loading the WC/ECVs first (through the back doors) and then letting everyone else pile on?

How does this work, when you get up to the front doors in your WC, you then roll around to the side door?

There is nothing wrong with loading the ECV first-this is exactly how WDW does it. This is why ECV's that pull up after "regular" loading has begun wait until the next bus-so the ECV user can load safely.

 

[LPZ_Stitch!]

There is nothing wrong with loading the ECV first-this is exactly how WDW does it. This is why ECV's that pull up after "regular" loading has begun wait until the next bus-so the ECV user can load safely.

If I'm understanding it correctly, though, thanks to these new "mainstreamed lines" the only chance we have to be loaded first is if we're actually the first in line at the bus stop.

Arrive any later than 1st and you're automatically waiting for the next bus. So, except for the odd chance of getting lucky, WC/ECV guest automatically get an additional 10-15-20 minute wait for *every* bus ride.

That's really going to stink for those of us that park hop.

That just doesn't sound fair to the WC/ECV people....

I really can't see what was wrong with the old system. The bus driver could see you as he pulled in, and get you on before the bus filled up. It's much easier and quicker to lock down a WC/EVC in an EMPTY bus!

 

[Talking Hands]

There is nothing wrong with loading the ECV first-this is exactly how WDW does it. This is why ECV's that pull up after "regular" loading has begun wait until the next bus-so the ECV user can load safely.

This is NOT what is being done at the Magic Kingdom. As I have said before I was at the bus stop and in line prior to the bus arriving and close enough to the front of the line to have been boarded. I was placed in the mainstream line and when I arrived at the pulloff they where already loading everyone and I was denied boarding. So it seems that unless you are already pulled out you will wait for the next even if you were close enough to the front of the line to be boarded if you were not in a wheelchair. And I feel that if you could have boarded as an able bodied person and been able to get a seat then Disney is discriminating against wheelchair users in their current system. I am not asking to be boarded if I arrive at the bus sop after loading has begun or be loaded if when I get to the pulloff the bus is standing room only. But if I am at the bus stop and in line and would be able to ride seated if I could just walk on the bus then I expect to be able to ride with my wheelchair. And we were initially told the drivers would be able to see the people in wheelchairs waiting in line even with all the others standing is not true. I was not seen by the driver. The driver started loading the bus and then when I reached the pulloff the line controller told me I would need to wait for the next bus and everyone else at the stop hopped on the bus and left for the resort. This is plain old DISCRIMINATION. When I complained the attitude was pretty much so what.

 

[disney david]

If I'm understanding it correctly, though, thanks to these new "mainstreamed lines" the only chance we have to be loaded first is if we're actually the first in line at the bus stop.

Arrive any later than 1st and you're automatically waiting for the next bus. So, except for the odd chance of getting lucky, WC/ECV guest automatically get an additional 10-15-20 minute wait for *every* bus ride.

That's really going to stink for those of us that park hop.

That just doesn't sound fair to the WC/ECV people....

I really can't see what was wrong with the old system. The bus driver could see you as he pulled in, and get you on before the bus filled up. It's much easier and quicker to lock down a WC/EVC in an EMPTY bus!

The reason. Disney did the main stream line is lots of guest complained that to many people was getting on with wheel chairs takeing all the seats. So disney came out with main stream que and restricting loading tithe wheelchairs and six members of their family and the rest have to wait to load wig the rest of the guest. Disney tried this to make it fair for everyone but caused more problems so as posted on here their drivers telling guest just to go to the curb and not wait in the line. So right now they need to come up with a final plan so everyone including the drivers know what to do. Nothing says disney has to load wheelchairs first just being it safer to do so and once the bus is load it hard to get them on so that why they do it first. Disney has to walk the thin line of trying to make everyone happy but can't always make everyone happy all the time.

 

[livndisney]

This is NOT what is being done at the Magic Kingdom. As I have said before I was at the bus stop and in line prior to the bus arriving and close enough to the front of the line to have been boarded. I was placed in the mainstream line and when I arrived at the pulloff they where already loading everyone and I was denied boarding. So it seems that unless you are already pulled out you will wait for the next even if you were close enough to the front of the line to be boarded if you were not in a wheelchair. And I feel that if you could have boarded as an able bodied person and been able to get a seat then Disney is discriminating against wheelchair users in their current system. I am not asking to be boarded if I arrive at the bus sop after loading has begun or be loaded if when I get to the pulloff the bus is standing room only. But if I am at the bus stop and in line and would be able to ride seated if I could just walk on the bus then I expect to be able to ride with my wheelchair. And we were initially told the drivers would be able to see the people in wheelchairs waiting in line even with all the others standing is not true. I was not seen by the driver. The driver started loading the bus and then when I reached the pulloff the line controller told me I would need to wait for the next bus and everyone else at the stop hopped on the bus and left for the resort. This is plain old DISCRIMINATION. When I complained the attitude was pretty much so what.

You have been quite clear how you feel. My post was to reply to another poster asking a question not to argue with you.

 

[livndisney]

The reason. Disney did the main stream line is lots of guest complained that to many people was getting on with wheel chairs takeing all the seats. So disney came out with main stream que and restricting loading tithe wheelchairs and six members of their family and the rest have to wait to load wig the rest of the guest. Disney tried this to make it fair for everyone but caused more problems so as posted on here their drivers telling guest just to go to the curb and not wait in the line. So right now they need to come up with a final plan so everyone including the drivers know what to do. Nothing says disney has to load wheelchairs first just being it safer to do so and once the bus is load it hard to get them on so that why they do it first. Disney has to walk the thin line of trying to make everyone happy but can't always make everyone happy all the time.

It does seem to be a work in progress. I do know right now there is not a consistant policy(atleast not one followed by all drivers).

 

[disney david]

It does seem to be a work in progress. I do know right now there is not a consistant policy(atleast not one followed by all drivers).

yes i think this is where disney decide to do something redid the epcot ones and started in mk and found out how bad idea it was. but don't want to throw in the towel yet fully and admit they was wrong. then some drivers had enough of having to tell guest they have to wait fort eh next bus because they followed what disney said and telling guest to just go to the curb and not wait in main que.

 

[Juliah]

Not sure if this was mentioned, but in addition to being asked to take backpacks off our daughters' wheelchairs for the bus, we were asked to take them off to ride Toy Story Mania in the wheelchair ride vehicle. This was in September, and I wonder if it was a new thing, because there seemed to be confusion among cast members about whether it was ok to leave a "medical bag" on a chair. Because we were taking turns on the ride (I went with DD 1 who rode in her wheelchair, then when we came back around, DH boarded with DD 2) that left someone to keep an eye on the backpack. But if it had just been me and one of my daughters, where would they have put the backpack? There was no room on the vehicle (unless there's a place behind the seats I wasn't aware of--and no one offered that). I wouldn't think Disney would want to assume responsibility for the bag while we rode. Anyone know how they handle that?

The other ride where we were asked to remove the backpack was the safari in AK, but we were able to set it next to the chair in the ride vehicle.

BTW, on that same trip, we were not asked to take the backpacks off when DD 2 rode in her wheelchair on Jungle Cruise or on Buzz Lightyear.

 

[SueM in MN]

Not sure if this was mentioned, but in addition to being asked to take backpacks off our daughters' wheelchairs for the bus, we were asked to take them off to ride Toy Story Mania in the wheelchair ride vehicle. This was in September, and I wonder if it was a new thing, because there seemed to be confusion among cast members about whether it was ok to leave a "medical bag" on a chair. Because we were taking turns on the ride (I went with DD 1 who rode in her wheelchair, then when we came back around, DH boarded with DD 2) that left someone to keep an eye on the backpack. But if it had just been me and one of my daughters, where would they have put the backpack? There was no room on the vehicle (unless there's a place behind the seats I wasn't aware of--and no one offered that). I wouldn't think Disney would want to assume responsibility for the bag while we rode. Anyone know how they handle that?

The other ride where we were asked to remove the backpack was the safari in AK, but we were able to set it next to the chair in the ride vehicle.

BTW, on that same trip, we were not asked to take the backpacks off when DD 2 rode in her wheelchair on Jungle Cruise or on Buzz Lightyear.

Taking backpacks off for any of those attractions is not new.
We have been asked to take DD's backpack off for all of those (except Jungle Cruise) many times over the last 5-6 years.
In some situations, it is because the bag protrudes too far back to get the door of the ride car closed and/or it rubs against the door or back part of the vehicle. That specifically has happened to us on Toy Story Mania, Buzz Lightyear, Triceratops Spin and the Magic Carpets of Aladdin.
It doesn't always happen, but depending on how much is in DD's backpack or how the things are arranged, it can happen. Some CMs just look at the backpack and think it looks big, so ask us to remove it.
We have not had any problem with finding a place for DD's backpack in any of those.
For the attractions which include tiedown straps, like the buses, we have been asked to remove the backpack so the CM see what they are doing and fasten the tiedowns more easily. Attractions where that happens include Kilimanjaro Safari and the Backstage Tour. Once the tiedown has been completed, we put the backpack back on.
We have not ridden Toy Story Mania since they added tiedown straps, but in past rides with DD's backpack on, her wheelchair lifted off the front wheels during some of the spins, so that is another reason for removing backpacks and any extra weight in the back of the wheelchair.

 

[Juliah]

Thanks for your reply, Sue. The reason I thought it might be a new thing is that various CM's at TSM (multiple times riding), both at loading and farther down the line, differed on whether the pack needed to come off and whether it mattered if it was a "medical bag." Perhaps as you said it depends on whether a particular CM prefers to assess the need or has a standing practice of automatically asking that packs be removed.

I don't mind taking it off for safety or if it's policy, but since not everyone had us do it, I'm curious as to what the actual requirements are and whether I could avoid the need to remove a pack by using one that is smaller or shorter, for example. No one told us *why* they wanted the pack off, so I don't know if it was size, weight, or that it was in the way of seeing the tie downs--or if they just want all packs off. I don't suppose the policy is in writing anywhere for guests to know what is required??

Thanks again for your help.