I did not have time for a long post before, so addressing a lot of things now.
If there is any more name calling, the thread will be re-closed and points will be given to those who are not playing nice.
I can see several reasons for requiring backpacks to be removed, but there are situations where critical thinking needs to be involved instead of just requiring every backpack to be taken off. There are situations (as already mentioned) where the backpack needs to stay on, is so difficult to take off and on that it doesn’t make sense to take it off or can’t be removed by a person who is alone on the bus.
We started taking DD’s backpack off while getting on the WDW buses and having her strapped down several years for these reasons, which may be part of the reason why the change is being made:
- On buses with lifts, there are moving parts behind you when you back onto the lift. I got the back sole of my backless shoe caught once as the lift started up; before the driver could stop the lift, my heel got badly scraped with quite a bit of skin scraped off. After that, we took the bag off the back of DD’s wheelchair and I make sure I am not anywhere near the back of the lift.
- The backpack on some wheelchairs/ECVs make the total length longer than 48 inches ( 48 inches is the size allowed).
- As Bill mentioned, for some people, the weight of the backpack makes their front wheels lift off the ground when using the ramps.
- It is difficult for the driver to work around a backpack to hook the back tiedown straps. Sometimes they can’t see what they are doing and are reaching blindly, especially for the straps nearest the wall. We started to always take the backpack off when one driver told us it was “OK to only use 3 straps” because he could not easily reach to get the strap on the wall side secured.
- We have noticed the tiedown and unfasten process goes considerably faster without DD’s backpack on.
- I’m sure there are more reasons, but these were the good reasons I could see for taking backpacks off.
- As I already mentioned, there are reasonable things to make exceptions for, but the majority of guests with wheelchairs/ECVs and backpacks probably can remove the backpack or have someone in their party remove the backpack with little trouble.
As a parent of 2 kids in wheelchairs I noticed that there were changes that made Disney less wheelchair friendly to families with more then one wheelchair. Used to be I could roll both chairs on the boats in it’s a small world but not anymore only one chair is allowed in the boat “for the safety of the cast member”. So now I have to roll one chair on and have that kid transfer out and the oldest one roll on. Not allowed to have 2 chairs in the loading are for thunder mountain so I have to carry my 78 pound child and throw her into a seat. Buzz Lightyear my youngest used to roll onto the wheelchair accessible car transfer out of her chair into the seat and her sister would wheel in and stay in her chair. Now they have to call and have permission to have 2 chairs on the stopped belt. Spaceship earth won’t even let them both ride at the same time because they can’t walk. It just seems that there is less and less common sense being used by Disney where full time disabled people are involved.
Regarding Small World - when the load/unload area was renovated recently, they got new boats. When we rode the new boats for the first time in April 2011, we pulled DD’s wheelchair all the way to the front, as we had previously. The CM stopped us and told us the front of the wheelchair had to be behind the yellow line on the floor. There is a second yellow line on the floor of the boat behind that and the wheelchair has to fit between the 2 lines.
Since the wheelchair is further back in the boat (even with the second row of seats, not even with the first row like it was in the old boats), there is only room for one wheelchair. My guess is that they had some kind of incident when a wheelchair was all the way to the front in the old boat - possibly when hit from behind, which does happen fairly often (and fairly hard) when the boats get backed up. There were several times on the old boat where DD’s wheelchair was pushed all the way to the front and did tip up on the back wheels when our boat was hit. If I had not been holding the chair down, the front wheels may have bumped over the front ‘wall’ of the boat since it is not very high. So, my guess is that it has very little or nothing to do with “safety of the cast member” but has to do with guest safety.
This picture shows the new boat and both the yellow lines.
The small picture doesn’t show both lines well, but you should be able to
click here and see a bigger picture.
You can also see that a wheelchair parked behind the farthest yellow line would be in the part of the boat that has the ‘door area’ and no sides.
My family has never been on Spaceship Earth when 2 people who could not walk were on the same cycle as we were. (My DD can’t walk). I do know that there have been situations where people waiting in the handicapped boarding area at Spaceship Earth were led on out of order to avoid having 2 people who could not walk be on the same cycle. This has not just been recent, but has happened multiple times over the years.
I do know from talking to greeter CMs there that there are limits to how many people who will need to be evacuated in an emergency can be on at one time. There are also specific points in the ride path that one group needs to have passed before they can load another group.
Even though some people who can’t walk could probably crawl down, I don’t think that would be allowed because others might not see them and trip.
For Buzz Lightyear, it would make sense for them to call and get approval for 2 wheelchairs to be on the belt at one time before you get to the point of loading. There should be something they can do to expedite that.
I did some research on the bus ramp requirements and while a fixed ramp normally requires the 1:12 rule the bus ramp rules are a bit different. The 1991 rules, which I think are still in effect, vary based on how high above a 6 inch curb the bus is. So for example a bus that is 3 inches above the curb would have a minimum of 1:4. But a bus 3-6 inches above the curb requires a 1:6, 6-9 inches above the curb is 1:8 and 9 inches above the curb is 1:12.
I'd guess the reasoning is that the longer the ramp is the more shallow the slope.
But in the 1991 rules a bus that opens onto the roadway level and not at a curb can have a slope as steep as 1:4 no matter how long the ramp is. So the ramps for the buses that open onto the road can be 3 times as steep as a normal ramp. No wonder I have problems with them!
The new proposed rules will require at least a 1:6 rise on all ramps. This will probably mean a 1:6 on roadways and a much easier ramp on curbs. It's still not great because it's twice as steep as a "normal" ramp but at least it's better than the 1:4.
http://www.federalregister.gov/arti...bility-guidelines-for-transportation-vehicles
That is true, the longer the ramp, the more shallow the slope.
I have noticed that on our personal ramp van. We are able to turn kneeling on and off. Situations where we might turn it off include:
- the van is close to a curb and we don’t want to risk the door being scraped as it opens.
- the curb is high and if the van was kneeled, the ramp would actually be going uphill when it opened.
If I forget to turn kneeling back on again, I really can tell the difference the next time we park in a place without a curb. The angle is much steeper.
If the ramp was longer, the angle would be less steep.
Some of the WDW buses seem to have shorter ramps than other kinds, so some might be steeper to use than others.
hear a you tube video it from 2008 from mk of the gillig buses which is tone of the new low floor buses. It shows a family pushing a wheelchair on the bus with a bag on the back. It also show well atleast it looks to me that the bus can kneel because after he loads them he tilts the bus back and goes to the front and you see the buses move down but i could be wrong.
it also good if you never rode a bus at home how they load you so you know what to expect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zxDFPPnIFE&feature=related
Good find of video - too bad it’s night time.
I can tell you for sure that the WDW buses do kneel - or some sort of tilt to the the side to make the ‘door’ side closer to the ground. This makes the angle of the ramp less steep. You can hear kind of a hissing sound on the video that is part of the process and you can see it kneeling at about timepoint 46-48 and again at around 51 to 52 or so. (It also looks like 8 people got on with the person in the wheelchair, which is not typical).
WDW has a variety of different ground conditions that the buses stop at. Some have higher curbs, some have lower curbs and some areas have no curb at all. The ramp would be steepest to come up on in the areas with no curb. Combine no curb with one of the shorter ramps and it will be fairly steep.
Last trip when I was getting on and off the bus at the MK there was little room to clear the ramp. I looked at where the bus was parked and it was was parked correctly. It appeared as if the metal gates were closer. Has anyone else noticed this?
On our last 2 trips to WDW (Oct 2010 and April 2011), they were doing some construction at MK bus stops. It appeared that they were possibly getting rid of the wheelchair waiting areas and extending the areas of railing.
If they did that, the metal gates/railings would be closer, so you would have much less room to clear the ramp.
We did notice that at Epcot, where they had already completed renovations of the bus waiting areas.
THis is a picture of the OKW bus stop at Epcot, where the previous wheelchair waiting area was removed and once you get into the line, there is no way out until you reach the front of the line.
"Also when they load 5 people from the disability spot to ride the ride none of them should be able to walk down the stairs unassisted if they can they don't need disability access."
That statement is rude in my opinion. That is suggesting that my kids who can walk up and down stairs do not belong in the disability access area. WRONG!
When they load us they are loading 7 people. There is 1 infant. There are 3 adult sized people. There are 3 kids...2 with physical issues and 1 with Aspergers.
I'm reading the sentence as it is and I'm sorry but I find it ignorant and slightly offensive. The number of stairs my children can do has nothing to do with their right to use the disability access entrance.
I'm not new to the world of disabilities or boards. I am new to seeing people with disabilities in their lives draw lines as to who deserves what and when.
THERE WILL BE NO FURTHER arguments like this allowed.
The original poster clarified the statement quoted above in this later post:
Sorry about that I thought I put a
scooter or wheelchair and disability access. My point is on one ride cycle I doubt if half the people on it would be able to do the stairs without assistance. Even parents with more then 2 small children would have a hard time evacuating but they don't stop and make them ride different cycles. The whole point of the post is that Disney continues to make changes that don't make sense like the backpack issue on buses.
. Have a good night and enjoy your next trip to Disney world.
