'Permission' to date again after spouse passes

[Colleen27]

We have talked about it, but from the "safe" space of us both being relatively young and healthy, when we were reviewing our life insurance/wills/guardianship documents when our oldest reached adulthood. Neither of us thinks we'd be likely to remarry, but we don't object to the idea that the other would do so either, and we've agreed on designating certain property to pass to our children regardless.

I don't see any benefit to having that conversation with an ill or dying partner, though. There is no good that can come of it but plenty of potential for guilt and hurt feelings. If the sick spouse wants to bring it up, to reassure the soon-to-be surviving spouse that it is okay to move on, fine. But the healthy spouse shouldn't seek to preemptively ease his/her conscience by putting that idea in the dying spouse's head.

 

[hereyago]

I am an oddball, but for me it would be til death do us part. I wouldn't be seeking any "permission" about it.
Would I make sure my heirs would be protected , sure. ..

 

[elaine amj]

It’s actually pretty common. We have a trust and there’s a clause that if the surviving spouse remarries they need to get a prenup that specifies the trust assets revert to the children upon surviving spouses death. If surviving spouse does not get a prenup upon their marriage they are “treated as if dead” and the trust immediately passes to the children.
It’s not to overly restrict or to complicate things for the surviving spouse. They can still spend down all their assets and blow it on new wife/husband and live in the lap of luxury if they wish. It just ensures that new spouse doesn’t get all the money when the surging spouse dies while the kids are left with nothing (a situation multiple people here have referenced).
So if I die and my husband remarries he could still end up spending everything we have, but if there’s anything left our children would get it (and keepsakes like my jewelry) instead of it going to his new wife and her family.

Oh I like this. Makes a lot of sense and is not too restrictive. Wonder if it is possible to specify this in a will as we don't intend to set up a trust.

 

[elaine amj]

I will admit I was a tiny bit worried when my mother remarried but didn't get around to writing a new will.

Then I looked up the laws where she was living and found that if she were to pass without a will, half would go to my stepfather and half to her children. That sounded fair enough to me so I stopped bugging her about writing a will.

 

[ronandannette]

I would not feel that I needed anyone's permission to date again if DH passed. It's not their call. I would certainly take steps with my estate to make sure it went to my kids, or give much of it to them outright, if I was to marry again. We have had the conversation about Alzheimer's. There have been stories in the news about women in facilities who have forgotten who their spouses are, and the men have started new relationships. I have said that would be fine with me if that should happen.

Would you do it to your husband if he were the one afflicted? What makes dementia any different than cancer, or ALS or whatever?

My brother did that while his wife languished in a lock-down dementia care facility. It absolutely broke the hearts of his children that he couldn't "wait out" the two years until her death or at least take accountability for divorcing her. It permanently changed their respect for their father and I don't blame them. Damn straight there's no way his wife would have condoned or encouraged his adultery. He dumped the woman shortly after his wife died anyway because really, what kind of woman would take up with a man like that?

...Hmmm...perhaps we should take the time to adjust our wills a bit to accommodate this scenario. Right now all assets just go to the other person. Hard to think of a modification that may not make life too difficult for the surviving spouse.

My friend is dealing with that right now. They are on their second marriage and he is now dying of cancer. They were living in his house which goes to his children upon his death. Thankfully hadn't sold her house so after her tenants moved out, we all pitched in to help update her house so she could move back into it. Rather stressful to have to do that on a tight timeline while he is in hospice care. Then again, it is only right that his house go to his kids.

I find the situation you're describing your friend in to be very unfortunate. Why should a spouse just happily accept being tossed out on the street when their husband/wife passes away? Presumably they have built a life together - wouldn't her husband have wanted her provided for?

Maybe we're just "weird" but we do not feel our children are "entitled" to anything we have, either now or in the future, nor were we entitled to anything from our parents. I did inherit from my parents but we didn't receive a thin dime from either of DH's parents. They were divorced and remarried; all of their assets passed in whole to their surviving spouses and we are certainly fine with that. Whether there are any provisions for DH and his siblings when the FIL's wife and MIL's husband eventually die is unknown. We expect there will either be nothing left or it will go to their own children. TBH, we were never close with either "step-parent" and are not entirely sure they are even still alive.

 

[elaine amj]

I find the situation you're describing your friend in to be very unfortunate. Why should a spouse just happily accept being tossed out on the street when their husband/wife passes away? Presumably they have built a life together - wouldn't her husband have wanted her provided for?

Basically, the house was a joint asset gained through the work of both the husband and his first wife. When she passed, I think that the house went to their children and he would have possession for the rest of his life (I am not sure of the details). His current wife will be fine - they discussed the situation and made sure she would be ok financially. Plus I believe they had full knowledge of this possibility when they married and chose to live in his house.

I don't know if I feel it would be right for the children's entire inheritance to go to a stepparent or even worse, distant family of the stepparent. I would never want a stepparent left destitute (and my mother made me promise to look after my stepfather if anything happened to her), but in cases where there is more than enough mone or sentimental items, it would be hard to see everything go to relative strangers. Particularly if the bulk of the inheritance was accumulated by the first spouse to pass who has no attachment to his/her "replacement".

I think a provision should be made so a certain amount goes to the stepparent and a certain amount to the children. Like I said before, I think the laws where my mom lived was fair - half to the stepparent and half to the children.

 

[slpeters]

We've had the discussion. I feel pretty confident that unless it happened really very late in life I would take a second husband. I think my husband is a little less inclined in that situation to do so but I've made him promise that in the event it happens, while he doesn't have to look for someone if he doesn't want to, that he remain open to the idea that it could happen.

 

[georgina]

Would you do it to your husband if he were the one afflicted? What makes dementia any different than cancer, or ALS or whatever?

People can live a long time with Alzheimers. My DH is 8 years older than I am, and it seems to affect women more than men, so I am not that concerned about it happening to him. Alzheimers is different from cancer, ALS, or whatever because the people truly don't know who you are. The stories I have seen, the women in care facilities go on to make their own new friendships and are happy in their new lives without their spouse they do not remember.
Journalist Barry Peterson's story is the one freshest in my mind.

 

[wenrob]

Maybe we're just "weird" but we do not feel our children are "entitled" to anything we have, either now or in the future, nor were we entitled to anything from our parents. I did inherit from my parents but we didn't receive a thin dime from either of DH's parents. They were divorced and remarried; all of their assets passed in whole to their surviving spouses and we are certainly fine with that. Whether there are any provisions for DH and his siblings when the FIL's wife and MIL's husband eventually die is unknown. We expect there will either be nothing left or it will go to their own children. TBH, we were never close with either "step-parent" and are not entirely sure they are even still alive.

I don’t think it’s really so much about the new spouse inheriting but the spouses children inheriting assets from the original marriage that would rightfully belong to the children of that marriage. You build a life together and in the end if there’s anything left you’d want it to go to your kids. New wife’s daughter shouldn’t be able to claim my grandma’s wedding ring should my spouse fail to directly distribute what belongs to me. It’s kind of hard to explain but IMO it’s not a malicious act, just a protective measure. My grandmother had a “no non blood relative” clause in her trust I think in huge part because my first stepmother took everything my dad had and she wanted to protect him in case she passed and another wife divorced him. Dad did inherit from her and unfortunately passed in November. He and my stepmother were together 43 years. I certainly don’t think I’m entitled to what’s left of that. She came by it honestly. Had she come along late in life and only been his spouse for a couple of years I might think differently. I think a divorce is an entirely different ballgame.

 

[disneychrista]

My guess is the dying spouse wants their husband/wife to be happy. It would NOT be a conversation to have on the persons death bed.

A better questions is why is the surviving spouse even thinking about such a thing when the person they are married to is dying.

 

[morgan98]

While I undestand how this subject may come up, I really don't see how discussing specifics would help (at least from my point of view in my marriage). We have no children, so I am not even really that worried about what would happen to assets should my husband remarry.

However, this is our second marriage and am not too sure either of us would be in a hurry to marry again. We are both also fairly introverted. This is one of those situations where I think the surviving partner would go on living and see what happens. In my case, I cannot imagine myself actively looking for someone else. But I have learned that life can take some strange twists and that you never really know.

But telling someone they shouldn't move on seems a bit cruel. Finding someone else does not mean the other person is being replaced. (at least hopefully not in all cases).

 

[ronandannette]

People can live a long time with Alzheimers. My DH is 8 years older than I am, and it seems to affect women more than men, so I am not that concerned about it happening to him. Alzheimers is different from cancer, ALS, or whatever because the people truly don't know who you are. The stories I have seen, the women in care facilities go on to make their own new friendships and are happy in their new lives without their spouse they do not remember.
Journalist Barry Peterson's story is the one freshest in my mind.

Maybe so, but the healthy spouse remembers and that's what fidelity is all about. I find it unconscionable. And may I ask again, whether or not you expect it to happen, would you move into a new relationship if your husband was incapacitated by Alzheimers or some similar cognitive disorder?

 

[emmybee]

My husband's stepmom died not long after his father died in an accident. His step-brother ended up inheriting everything because hubby's father didn't have a will providing for his kids. My husband didn't care about his own situation, but he was really pissed that his college-age brother and sister were left with nothing. His dad was neglectful at best, and his step-mom was a witch.

 

[neverlandsky]

Each to their own.

I know for me I don’t want another spouse/date if anything happened to DH. I already have more than half my life with DH under my belt. I did say though I don’t mind that DH does, yet my only request is to please wait until the kids are adults. Which as of today is 4.25 years until youngest is an adult.

I know for me there will not be anyone else because I don’t want anyone else. I’m a one and done type of girl. This is something that I know to be true for me. Some might see this as not moving on, yet I would move on by being a bit selfish to focus on me and help my community.

 

[elaine amj]

My guess is the dying spouse wants their husband/wife to be happy. It would NOT be a conversation to have on the persons death bed.

A better questions is why is the surviving spouse even thinking about such a thing when the person they are married to is dying.

I think a conversation like that before anything becomes a possibility is not a bad idea. Yes, we intellectually know that most spouses would just want their surviving spouse to be happy. However, I can see how easy it would be for the surviving spouse to have guilty feelings that could be alleviated by this "permission".

My husband's stepmom died not long after his father died in an accident. His step-brother ended up inheriting everything because hubby's father didn't have a will providing for his kids. My husband didn't care about his own situation, but he was really pissed that his college-age brother and sister were left with nothing. His dad was neglectful at best, and his step-mom was a witch.

Much as you can't imagine a reasonable, intelligent, caring spouse and parent ever allowing a situation like this to happen, it really could. My mother remarried about 20 years after her divorce (she had never even dated until she met my stepfather!). While I won't say she made any bad decisions, she was definitely more "in the clouds" and shocked me by not getting around to doing basic precautions like writing a new will. I was very surprised at how her new emotions and the excitement of falling in love made her refuse to consider long term ramifications.

So best to consider the possible situations BEFORE it happens. And yes, these are worst case scenarios and in general, most people are reasonable. The possibilities of problems are there though. Of course, I brought up this thread to DH and he listened to about half of it and started reading his sports news halfway through while nodding LOL!

 

[gotomu212]

I find the situation you're describing your friend in to be very unfortunate. Why should a spouse just happily accept being tossed out on the street when their husband/wife passes away? Presumably they have built a life together - wouldn't her husband have wanted her provided for?

Maybe we're just "weird" but we do not feel our children are "entitled" to anything we have, either now or in the future, nor were we entitled to anything from our parents. I did inherit from my parents but we didn't receive a thin dime from either of DH's parents. They were divorced and remarried; all of their assets passed in whole to their surviving spouses and we are certainly fine with that. Whether there are any provisions for DH and his siblings when the FIL's wife and MIL's husband eventually die is unknown. We expect there will either be nothing left or it will go to their own children. TBH, we were never close with either "step-parent" and are not entirely sure they are even still alive.

I can speak to our thoughts on this since we’ve set our trust up like this. My husband and I have built a life together and are in the process of raising kids and are earning and investing in our life. We’re already screeching into middle age and the bulk of our adult lives will be together. If I or he were to pass and the other get remarried it will be to someone else who has also lived “the bulk of their lives” and will be likely coming to the marriage with their own kids and reasonable assets (unless one of us lets lose and marries a 20 something which hey!) and we’ll more likely be in our sunset years so the chance of our passing will be sooner rather than later. We don’t want the bulk of what we’ve built up in our lives to go to someone our spouse has been married to for 15 minutes while our kids see nothing.

I don’t want a 30 year old stepdaughter who I never met in life wearing my engagement ring while my own daughter who we both raised sees nothing. This is a way to ensure that a short marriage in your later years doesn’t receive the bulk of an estate you built up over your life, and really if a spouse is being tossed out it means they came to a late in life marriage with no assets of their own and didn’t earn anything during the marriage and that the spouse didn’t feel the need to buy them a home.

Under our arrangement anything my spouse and their new wife build together she would be entitled to and he is even free to sell all our stuff and blow it in Vegas, but the assets that he comes into the marriage with stay with him (and his children).

 

[luvmarypoppins]

Well I talked about it with dh after I almost died from cancer surgery #1.

I said - If anything ever happens it's ok for you to get married again. I said - just please don't marry my cousin P.

His reply - I think I would be happy with a cat instead, lol.

 

[marybet]

My husband is 5 years younger than me, so I will probably die first. He does not do alone well so I think he would at least have another relationship, I just asked him to wait at least 6 months before he remarries. I have no desire to date again, I was divorced for 8 years before I remarried 21 years ago, can't even imagine dating again! We are enjoying our retirement and hope there is not much money left for anyone to worry about. I have joked that he has to put my ashes on the nightstand and point them out to any new woman.

 

[NotUrsula]

Well, estate planning is one thing; you usually deal with that when it's all theoretical, and very few spouses are going to argue against making sure that the assets of the first to go stay in that person's own family. It's pretty normal to say "if one of us dies, the survivor, in his/her own will, will then bequeath remaining assets from the first decedent to whomever that person preferred as secondary heir."

When it comes to discussion of the emotional side of moving on, that's pretty much always a topic that the sick person will bring up first. For the sake of assuaging potential guilt, it is common for "permission" to be gifted by the dying. I think very few people would actually have the gall to announce a plan for moving on to the person whose death has to make that possible.

 

[mumto3girls]

We have had the conversation several times over the years, but both of us are just now approaching 50 and in good health so not something we were imminently facing. I can’t even recall why these conversations took place since we haven’t had life threatening health issues, but we’ve been together since high school and done estate planning and gone through the deaths of grandparents and his dad so probably during those times.

Certainly if I were aware I was dying I would reiterate my desire for him to continue on to live his life. I hate the idea of him being lonely. I do recall asking him to be absolutely certain before he married or moved in with someone that she would be good with our children as long as they were still young.

I’m not sure what I would do. He would want me to be happy though.