Poll: Are you going to buy at Riviera

[OUjenny21]

I am a first time DVC owner that just bought into Riviera direct and also now has a pending Polynesian contract via resale. I can share my insight on why I am buying Riviera! I looked at direct for all the resorts but didn't want to pay $245/pt direct Polynesian or $255/pt direct Grand Floridian. The perk in Annual Passes alone for my family adds to about $1000 a year so I really wanted a direct contract regardless of what additional points we buy resale. I know the possible downside to reselling Riviera but with difficulty booking in the 7 month window at non-home resorts, I didn't feel comfortable purchasing at CCV or Aulani.

As much as I would hate to potentially lose money on Riviera if I ever had to sell, I would immediately be out an extra $63-$73 per point by buying direct Poly or GFV instead of the direct $188/pt for Riviera. If my Riviera contract value drops in resale... it could drop as much as 35% and still not be as much of a loss as the premium of buying direct Poly or GF. The other thing I keep thinking is that Disney still has ROFR. I don't understand why people are talking about contracts for Riviera dropping to pennies on the dollar for resale. If that were to happen, wouldn't it be in Disney's best interest to scoop them back up in ROFR and resell them as new again? It seems that would keep the price somewhat inflated? Can someone help if I am just missing something on this?

 

[TexasChick123]

I am a first time DVC owner that just bought into Riviera direct and also now has a pending Polynesian contract via resale. I can share my insight on why I am buying Riviera! I looked at direct for all the resorts but didn't want to pay $245/pt direct Polynesian or $255/pt direct Grand Floridian. The perk in Annual Passes alone for my family adds to about $1000 a year so I really wanted a direct contract regardless of what additional points we buy resale. I know the possible downside to reselling Riviera but with difficulty booking in the 7 month window at non-home resorts, I didn't feel comfortable purchasing at CCV or Aulani.

As much as I would hate to potentially lose money on Riviera if I ever had to sell, I would immediately be out an extra $63-$73 per point by buying direct Poly or GFV instead of the direct $188/pt for Riviera. If my Riviera contract value drops in resale... it could drop as much as 35% and still not be as much of a loss as the premium of buying direct Poly or GF. The other thing I keep thinking is that Disney still has ROFR. I don't understand why people are talking about contracts for Riviera dropping to pennies on the dollar for resale. If that were to happen, wouldn't it be in Disney's best interest to scoop them back up in ROFR and resell them as new again? It seems that would keep the price somewhat inflated? Can someone help if I am just missing something on this?

First of all, Go Horns. Sorry. I couldn’t resist.

Secondly, you aren’t missing anything. ROFR inflates all of the current prices.

 

[OUjenny21]

First of all, Go Horns. Sorry. I couldn’t resist.

Secondly, you aren’t missing anything. ROFR inflates all of the current prices.

Haha, hey, I attended UT for a year and transferred to Oklahoma.

But is my thinking correct on all the above? I mean, I haven't signed all the papers yet so I can still back out if I'm being an absolute idiot, lol. With buying direct, Aulani is a no-go and CCV can't fit my family of 5 in a studio or a 1 bedroom so that resort doesn't make sense for us either. I would buy used for all my points but at $1000 a year in annual pass savings, it only takes a few years to make up the new Riviera vs used GF/Poly price difference. Plus I feel like buying some resale at least allows me to have some of the points at the cheaper price. If you don't mind me asking, in my situation, where would you be buying?

 

[TexasChick123]

Haha, hey, I attended UT for a year and transferred to Oklahoma.

But is my thinking correct on all the above? I mean, I haven't signed all the papers yet so I can still back out if I'm being an absolute idiot, lol. With buying direct, Aulani is a no-go and CCV can't fit my family of 5 in a studio or a 1 bedroom so that resort doesn't make sense for us either. I would buy used for all my points but at $1000 a year in annual pass savings, it only takes a few years to make up the new Riviera vs used GF/Poly price difference. Plus I feel like buying some resale at least allows me to have some of the points at the cheaper price. If you don't mind me asking, in my situation, where would you be buying?

If you ask 10 different people, you will probably get 10 different answers. If you have decided on direct, then you can theoretically buy any of the properties right now. As of January 19, 2019, L14 (every resort prior to Riviera) resale points can only trade into other L14 and not any future properties. Riviera resale can only be used at Riviera. This new restriction is completely uncharted territory. We don't know how it will affect resale value. There are properties like VGC, where people generally buy just to book there even resale (I did). The 7 month window is getting tighter every year, especially for the sought after properties, so this restriction may end up being somewhat pointless at certain times of the year. Even though I have bought resale before the restriction and can trade anywhere at 7 months, if all the rooms are booked when I want to go at the non-home resort where I want to stay, then I can't book it. However, it still does give flexibility if I just had to go to WDW and stay somewhere else if it was available. We probably wouldn't stay somewhere that we don't want to because we just have to go to Disney and didn't book during the home priority window, but that's us. We have to plan pretty far out.

What will the resale value be long term for Riviera? High, low, somewhere in between? None of us know because this restriction is completely new. Will they introduce some way to qualify points? How will that look?

We bought Riviera accepting the risk that the resale value may be low. I don't think it will be, but I don't know for sure. We plan to hang onto it for the long haul, so hopefully it's fine. Should we have to sell, and the resale value is low, then it is what it is. By the way, it is still just a timeshare.

The direct prices for VGF, BLT, VGC etc. are crazy to me, and that's coming from an owner (although I bought resale). We also don't know what the future holds for DVC restrictions, so we can only proceed with what we know. If you like the look of the resort and are buying with the plan to stay there, then you should feel good about your decision. You can always pick up some L14 points via resale at another resort. Good luck with your decision!!!

 

[Bing Showei]

The other thing I keep thinking is that Disney still has ROFR. I don't understand why people are talking about contracts for Riviera dropping to pennies on the dollar for resale. If that were to happen, wouldn't it be in Disney's best interest to scoop them back up in ROFR and resell them as new again?

Riviera is a beautiful resort that checks off a lot of boxes for pent up demand for an Epcot resort that doesn’t expire in 23 years. The resort will only disappoint people who are looking to buy in and then sell it as if it were the new BCV. That was a different product Disney was selling. Riviera marks the start of the new Disney timeshare.

My guide said explicitly that Disney wants to get away from the old model and to be a product for families to buy into and enjoy, not for people to make a profit off of (shortsighted damage to that product and flexibility of ownership usage be damned). It’s why I suspect renting will be the next target.

If you’re buying in to enjoy what appears to be a beautiful place to vacation at Disney with your family, you’re fine. But don’t lull yourself into thinking that you’re buying anything more than a timeshare.

All of that said, Aulani points can be had in the low 90’s (vs. $188 direct) in what is arguably a high watermark for Disney’s timeshare prices. I have never seen an Aulani contract taken in ROFR and would wager that if you could find a seller willing to sell Aulani for $50/point, Disney wouldn’t want it back. Don’t bank on Disney to support the value of your timeshare. You own it. You have committed to paying the bills for the next 50 years, whether directly or finding the next person to take over that commitment. It’s your responsibility now.

In the last economic downturn, people were buying up contracts for dirt cheap and had their been a ROFR thread then, you would not have read any “oh I offered to pay two dollars more than asking to make sure we would pass ROFR.” Disney nearly stopped buying and the floor came out from under resale prices. Could you afford it if the economy tanked and you lost your job and had to walk away? That’s what happened to a lot of Disney timeshare owners 2009-2012. It happens to a lot of owners who get in over their heads today.

You’re making a luxury timeshare purchase to stay at a gorgeous resort with what is promising to be a great way to travel to the parks. Any expectation beyond that falls squarely into the caveat emptor arena.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Riviera is a beautiful resort that checks off a lot of boxes for pent up demand for an Epcot resort that doesn’t expire in 23 years. The resort will only disappoint people who are looking to buy in and then sell it as if it were the new BCV. That was a different product Disney was selling. Riviera marks the start of the new Disney timeshare.

My guide said explicitly that Disney wants to get away from the old model and to be a product for families to buy into and enjoy, not for people to make a profit off of (shortsighted damage to that product and flexibility of ownership usage be damned). It’s why I suspect renting will be the next target.

If you’re buying in to enjoy what appears to be a beautiful place to vacation at Disney with your family, you’re fine. But don’t lull yourself into thinking that you’re buying anything more than a timeshare.

All of that said, Aulani points can be had in the low 90’s (vs. $188 direct) in what is arguably a high watermark for Disney’s timeshare prices. I have never seen an Aulani contract taken in ROFR and would wager that if you could find a seller willing to sell Aulani for $50/point, Disney wouldn’t want it back. Don’t bank on Disney to support the value of your timeshare. You own it. You have committed to paying the bills for the next 50 years, whether directly or finding the next person to take over that commitment. It’s your responsibility now.

In the last economic downturn, people were buying up contracts for dirt cheap and had their been a ROFR thread then, you would not have read any “oh I offered to pay two dollars more than asking to make sure we would pass ROFR.” Disney nearly stopped buying and the floor came out from under resale prices. Could you afford it if the economy tanked and you lost your job and had to walk away? That’s what happened to a lot of Disney timeshare owners 2009-2012. It happens to a lot of owners who get in over their heads today.

You’re making a luxury timeshare purchase to stay at a gorgeous resort with what is promising to be a great way to travel to the parks. Any expectation beyond that falls squarely into the caveat emptor arena.

I just spit up reading the “Disney wants the product to be on for families to buy in and enjoy.....not profit from” (ie just forget about ever selling and being competition to them especially where they have to keep improving the product vs getting back to lazy builds).

Such drivel really hasn’t come from them since Jim Lewis. Are we sure he’s not back with some new identity?

 

[ELMC]

I don't understand why people are talking about contracts for Riviera dropping to pennies on the dollar for resale. If that were to happen, wouldn't it be in Disney's best interest to scoop them back up in ROFR and resell them as new again? It seems that would keep the price somewhat inflated? Can someone help if I am just missing something on this?

Those predictions that you are reading are a worst case scenario being predicted by some on here. It's not likely. But Disney has demonstrated a pattern of passing on contracts that they could have easily resold. Their business model is to develop a timeshare property and sell it at roughly a 4x markup. The math on ROFRing contracts and reselling them doesn't match up.

With buying direct, Aulani is a no-go and CCV can't fit my family of 5 in a studio or a 1 bedroom so that resort doesn't make sense for us either. I would buy used for all my points but at $1000 a year in annual pass savings, it only takes a few years to make up the new Riviera vs used GF/Poly price difference. Plus I feel like buying some resale at least allows me to have some of the points at the cheaper price. If you don't mind me asking, in my situation, where would you be buying?

Honestly, nobody should be buying Aulani right now and CCV is not a fit for you. So your options are buy Riviera and then add on via resale, buy resale and forego membership benefits, or not buy. Personally I'm very bearish on DVC right now, but I understand that I might be in a minority. It sounds like you are on the right path, provided that these purchases are not a stretch for you and you wouldn't be devastated if they turned into traditional timeshares where the only real value is in the use. That's the one constant with DVC, you will be staying in excellent properties at a premier destination. Regardless of price fluctuations, that is still pretty good.

 

[LAX]

......

My guide said explicitly that Disney wants to get away from the old model and to be a product for families to buy into and enjoy, not for people to make a profit off of (shortsighted damage to that product and flexibility of ownership usage be damned). It’s why I suspect renting will be the next target.

.....

Your guide was exactly right about the current management wanting to "get away from the old model." The model where members were treated equally and fairly. The model where flexibility and accessibility were of great importance. Now, the current model is really all about $$$$$. It's a product for families that would be willing to pay big money to enjoy. It's a product where DVD can make lots of profit (ironic that the guide claimed the reverse with old model).

LAX

 

[Bing Showei]

I just spit up reading the “Disney wants the product to be on for families to buy in and enjoy.....not profit from” (ie just forget about ever selling and being competition to them especially where they have to keep improving the product vs getting back to lazy builds).

Such drivel really hasn’t come from them since Jim Lewis. Are we sure he’s not back with some new identity?

That’s exactly it.

Disney made such a great product that the product itself took on a life of its own, becoming the competition. So Disney is slowly killing the old product.

Resale has, for the first time, been meaningfully differentiated, with the vestiges of the old Disney timeshare disappearing with every new resort built and every legacy contract resold.

As short sighted as it is, Disney knows they can sell out a resort on park foot traffic buy-ins alone. Once that contract is signed the money is in the bank and it’s on to the next development. Rinse and repeat. It’ll take years, if ever*, for “industry-standard” to catch up to Disney’s reputation.

*Not gonna lie, build a Yacht Club timeshare and I’ll be first in line to buy, site unseen. I’m woke but still Disney Dumb.

 

[ELMC]

Your guide was exactly right about the current management wanting to "get away from the old model." The model where members were treated equally and fairly. The model where flexibility and accessibility were of great importance. Now, the current model is really all about $$$$$. It's a product for families that would be willing to pay big money to enjoy. It's a product where DVD can make lots of profit (ironic that the guide claimed the reverse with old model).

LAX

You forgot the model where owners were getting an exceptional value. Now they're getting a great product at a high price tag. Like you said, pay a lot to get a lot. But as I said earlier, we blew through the value proposition of DVC when BLT direct hit $145 per point.

 

[kboo]

I think Disney did a lot in the last couple of years to make buying direct a whole lot more appealing than resale, IF you are considering buying DVC for the first time. I think it’s a completely different consideration if you already own resale points that can trade anywhere, and/or have AP discounts. If we had already owned BCV or BWV (whether resale or direct), we probably wouldn’t have considered RIV at all. (Although since all BWV 2br are lockoffs, booking those would be just as hard as studios, and the absence of 2 real beds in the second bedroom is a bit of a bummer.)

With all the direct price hikes and ROFR, most of the “competition” for Riviera doesn’t make a ton of sense for a new buyer who’s considering resale v RIV direct, unless you absolutely love a particular resort and plan to stay there (or L14). VGF costs almost as much per point resale as RIV costs direct, and RIV direct now has more resorts to trade into and with better point charts. BLT is around $140 pp and up. If you’re considering a 200 point contract, for about $5400 more you’d get all the perks including AP discounts and full tradeability. True you can’t walk to any parks, but the gondolas seem like they’ll get you to 2 parks quickly and without breaking down so much. BWV and BCV — you wouldn’t be saving much to have a much shorter contract. Our kids are young and although we are older parents, we were uncertain about the 2042 end date. Younger families would be even more hesitant about those resorts. (And don’t get me wrong, I love them, have stayed at both, and made several failed offers on both)

And finally, there are some nice changes to RIV that seem like they took notice of what worked and didn’t in prior resorts: studios and 1br sleep 5, the Murphy bed is both easier to use and more comfortable, and the second bath in the 2br is a split bath. And even in the studios there’s much more storage, and smarter storage, than VGF where we are currently staying.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I think Disney did a lot in the last couple of years to make buying direct a whole lot more appealing than resale, IF you are considering buying DVC for the first time.
.

On the surface they ad doing their best to make it appear that way. And that’s all they care about.

 

[LAX]

On the surface they ad doing their best to make it appear that way. And that’s all they care about.

Maybe I am biased, but I think DVD has been making resale much less attractive than direct instead. What have they really added to direct purchase recently that would make it so much more "appealing" than, let's say, 10-15 years ago? I am willing to bet if DVD were to bring back complimentary park tickets (pipe dreams, I know) or something similar, there won't be any need for resale restrictions!

LAX

 

[ELMC]

I think Disney did a lot in the last couple of years to make buying direct a whole lot more appealing than resale, IF you are considering buying DVC for the first time.

I actually think this depends on how you look at it and I actually think it's relative. I don't think they did anything to make buying direct more attractive and the restrictions on Riviera resales actually negatively impact the direct purchaser as well. However, while they made direct purchases look slightly worse, they made resale purchases look tremendously worse. Relatively speaking, direct purchases look much better than they did before, even though they are more expensive both short and long term and are nowhere near as big a value proposition as they used to be.

 

[OUjenny21]

I think Disney did a lot in the last couple of years to make buying direct a whole lot more appealing than resale, IF you are considering buying DVC for the first time. I think it’s a completely different consideration if you already own resale points that can trade anywhere, and/or have AP discounts. If we had already owned BCV or BWV (whether resale or direct), we probably wouldn’t have considered RIV at all. (Although since all BWV 2br are lockoffs, booking those would be just as hard as studios, and the absence of 2 real beds in the second bedroom is a bit of a bummer.)

With all the direct price hikes and ROFR, most of the “competition” for Riviera doesn’t make a ton of sense for a new buyer who’s considering resale v RIV direct, unless you absolutely love a particular resort and plan to stay there (or L14). VGF costs almost as much per point resale as RIV costs direct, and RIV direct now has more resorts to trade into and with better point charts. BLT is around $140 pp and up. If you’re considering a 200 point contract, for about $5400 more you’d get all the perks including AP discounts and full tradeability. True you can’t walk to any parks, but the gondolas seem like they’ll get you to 2 parks quickly and without breaking down so much. BWV and BCV — you wouldn’t be saving much to have a much shorter contract. Our kids are young and although we are older parents, we were uncertain about the 2042 end date. Younger families would be even more hesitant about those resorts. (And don’t get me wrong, I love them, have stayed at both, and made several failed offers on both)

And finally, there are some nice changes to RIV that seem like they took notice of what worked and didn’t in prior resorts: studios and 1br sleep 5, the Murphy bed is both easier to use and more comfortable, and the second bath in the 2br is a split bath. And even in the studios there’s much more storage, and smarter storage, than VGF where we are currently staying.

THIS is exactly why we ended up buying Riviera. No real direct competition with Riviera (that would work for us) and high resale prices at my interested resorts weren't worth losing the direct perks.

Thanks for all the great feedback! Our hope is to never sell but I always like to think I'm being smart for the "just-in-case". It bothers me that this is such an unknown right now for Riviera and where things are going with DVC in general. I'll just hope to enjoy my trips at Riviera and take advantage while I can. I am also waiting on ROFR for a separate resale Polynesian contract so hopefully I will take both the best of direct perks and used savings.

 

[Royal Consort]

I think Disney did a lot in the last couple of years to make buying direct a whole lot more appealing than resale, IF you are considering buying DVC for the first time. I think it’s a completely different consideration if you already own resale points that can trade anywhere, and/or have AP discounts. If we had already owned BCV or BWV (whether resale or direct), we probably wouldn’t have considered RIV at all. (Although since all BWV 2br are lockoffs, booking those would be just as hard as studios, and the absence of 2 real beds in the second bedroom is a bit of a bummer.)

With all the direct price hikes and ROFR, most of the “competition” for Riviera doesn’t make a ton of sense for a new buyer who’s considering resale v RIV direct, unless you absolutely love a particular resort and plan to stay there (or L14). VGF costs almost as much per point resale as RIV costs direct, and RIV direct now has more resorts to trade into and with better point charts. BLT is around $140 pp and up. If you’re considering a 200 point contract, for about $5400 more you’d get all the perks including AP discounts and full tradeability. True you can’t walk to any parks, but the gondolas seem like they’ll get you to 2 parks quickly and without breaking down so much. BWV and BCV — you wouldn’t be saving much to have a much shorter contract. Our kids are young and although we are older parents, we were uncertain about the 2042 end date. Younger families would be even more hesitant about those resorts. (And don’t get me wrong, I love them, have stayed at both, and made several failed offers on both)

And finally, there are some nice changes to RIV that seem like they took notice of what worked and didn’t in prior resorts: studios and 1br sleep 5, the Murphy bed is both easier to use and more comfortable, and the second bath in the 2br is a split bath. And even in the studios there’s much more storage, and smarter storage, than VGF where we are currently staying.

THIS is exactly why we ended up buying Riviera. No real direct competition with Riviera (that would work for us) and high resale prices at my interested resorts weren't worth losing the direct perks.

Thanks for all the great feedback! Our hope is to never sell but I always like to think I'm being smart for the "just-in-case". It bothers me that this is such an unknown right now for Riviera and where things are going with DVC in general. I'll just hope to enjoy my trips at Riviera and take advantage while I can. I am also waiting on ROFR for a separate resale Polynesian contract so hopefully I will take both the best of direct perks and used savings.

We're brand new DVC buyers looking at buying our first contract and will likely purchase when we are at WDW at the end of the year. We were originally going to go through resale but for a number of various reasons we've decided to buy direct. Initially we were looking to buy an OKW extended contract direct from Disney (because of price and L14 trading) but the more we've looked at Riviera and the recent online videos of the room, the more enamoured we are with it. I love the room, love Europe, and I love the theming with the Disney artwork and ironwork on the balconies etc. This feels like the first 'Disney' hotel they've built in a long time (i.e. Including Disney character motifs rather than removing them!). We really should have bought into VGF at the time they were selling directly but DVC ''wasn't right for us'', until we discovered that it has been right all along and we worked out that our trips in the last 4 years would have paid off more than the contract we are looking to buy!

If there were no restrictions at Riviera I would be very excited about purchasing but since there are restrictions for reselling it, I have more trepidation. Right now the place I love is VGF but we aren't going to pay direct prices for that. Riviera comes a close second. We could possibly buy AKL and BLT because they are able to be resold without issue but we won't get ''excited'' about staying there (although I like the walk to MK!). The question I ask myself is really: are we buying this to resell a timeshare we think is ''okay'' or should we buy something we love and if the resale if low, oh well?

 

[Madame]

As short sighted as it is, Disney knows they can sell out a resort on park foot traffic buy-ins alone.

For now...

 

[Bing Showei]

As short sighted as it is, Disney knows they can sell out a resort on park foot traffic buy-ins alone.

For now...

... as long as they have a functional monopoly on the parks and don’t do something stupid like devalue staying on site by replacing EMH with upcharge events, monetizing fastpasses at the expense of on-site guests, alter the benefit of walking to the IG by converting it into a massive body dump...

 

[Madame]

... as long as they have a functional monopoly on the parks and don’t do something stupid like devalue staying on site by replacing EMH with upcharge events, monetizing fastpasses at the expense of on-site guests, alter the benefit of walking to the IG by converting it into a massive body dump...

Lol! Yeh & add in an economic downturn.

 

[kboo]

Initially we were looking to buy an OKW extended contract direct from Disney (because of price and L14 trading) but the more we've looked at Riviera and the recent online videos of the room, the more enamoured we are with it. I love the room, love Europe, and I love the theming with the Disney artwork and ironwork on the balconies etc. This feels like the first 'Disney' hotel they've built in a long time (i.e. Including Disney character motifs rather than removing them!). We really should have bought into VGF at the time they were selling directly but DVC ''wasn't right for us'', until we discovered that it has been right all along and we worked out that our trips in the last 4 years would have paid off more than the contract we are looking to buy!

We also love VGF (and own less restricted resale there), but we first started thinking about DVC in 2015 when we coulda shoulda woulda bought direct ... we are similar - love Europe, really liked the video walkthrough and the pictures online. But it took seeing the model rooms to seal the deal. As nice as the videos are, seeing the rooms in person and looking around yourself is a different ballgame.

(And we are staying at VGF now on our VGF points.)