Poll: Would you buy Riviera direct from Disney if the resale restrictions were removed?

[TexasChick123]

I wish they’d replace them with a walkway across the lake. Or build VGF/PVB/BLT 2.0 and saddle a new gondola system on that resort.

I already own VGF and BLT, so I just want it fixed!!! I will say that since we only rode the monorail from VGF to MK, we were able to avoid a lot of the issues this last trip. It’s sad that I find myself avoiding the monorail though because of all of the issues.

 

[rob5589]

If there weren't any resale restrictions I would definitely consider Riviera. I would probably still want to visit or stay there at least once before buying.

Is it already confirmed that Riviera resale wont include any of the future resorts?

 

[crvetter]

If there weren't any resale restrictions I would definitely consider Riviera. I would probably still want to visit or stay there at least once before buying.

Is it already confirmed that Riviera resale wont include any of the future resorts?

Correct it is confirmed. Riviera and future resorts bought through resale will only have home resort access.

 

[kboo]

The more I think about it: It is highly unlikely we'd ever use our VGF points for anything other than VGF. And the Riviera point charts are a little better than VGF. So I don't think Disney much cares about Riviera owners only having access to Riviera. The main reason we are considering Riv is for the 11 mo booking window at an EP/HS resort. If we got Riv points, I don't think we'd use them for anything other than Riviera either.

 

[stewart715]

One thing I've been thinking about: I'm not sure a single RVA contract will be sold via resale. On one hand, renting out RVA points will undoubtedly be more lucrative than selling them on the resale market with home resort only restrictions.

On the other, even if someone does try to sell their contract via resale for the $49 a point (my guess) it will be worth, DVD will just take every single one via ROFR and turn around and sell them direct for $188+. And for those contracts that are priced too high for DVD's tastes, they will just sit on the resale market forever. So, the few that are sold via resale, the buyer will have severely overpaid.

 

[DenLo]

. . .

On the other, even if someone does try to sell their contract via resale for the $49 a point (my guess) it will be worth, DVD will just take every single one via ROFR and turn around and sell them direct for $188+. And for those contracts that are priced too high for DVD's tastes, they will just sit on the resale market forever. So, the few that are sold via resale, the buyer will have severely overpaid.

DVC will ROFR any contracts that are sold at that price. It would be a great profit margin.

 

[DenLo]

I find myself flip flopping on a daily basis on this question. Today it the restrictions were removed I would be so tempted.

 

[TexasChick123]

I find myself flip flopping on a daily basis on this question. Today it the restrictions were removed I would be so tempted.

They’re going to offer some sort of fee structure to trade at 7 months in my opinion. We don’t know what it’ll look like, but I really think that is what’s coming. That’s what all other timeshares do, and they’re starting to act more like others.

 

[Katie L]

And for those contracts that are priced too high for DVD's tastes, they will just sit on the resale market forever. So, the few that are sold via resale, the buyer will have severely overpaid.

They think folks will see this as the "new" BWV/BCV. If the gondolas work as well as they are hoping, some will. They expect people to want them just as they want VGF or BCV. I guess we'll see. (IMO, a walk trumps any form of transportation and I just don't see that similarity... and I have high expectations of the gondolas.)

 

[stewart715]

They think folks will see this as the "new" BWV/BCV. If the gondolas work as well as they are hoping, some will. They expect people to want them just as they want VGF or BCV. I guess we'll see. (IMO, a walk trumps any form of transportation and I just don't see that similarity... and I have high expectations of the gondolas.)

While that is possible, I still doubt it as well. RVA is a mid-rise resort with no walkability to parks or entertainment in the immediate area. While it looks nice and I would not mind staying there (or even mind having it as my home resort), I would not want it to be my only resort. I don't see RVA as comparable to BWV/BCV. Day and night. I think BWV/BCV would sell fine on resale market if placed under the same restrictions, don't think that will happen with RVA though.

 

[TexasChick123]

While that is possible, I still doubt it as well. RVA is a mid-rise resort with no walkability to parks or entertainment in the immediate area. While it looks nice and I would not mind staying there (or even mind having it as my home resort), I would not want it to be my only resort. I don't see RVA as comparable to BWV/BCV. Day and night. I think BWV/BCV would sell fine on resale market if placed under the same restrictions, don't think that will happen with RVA though.

How many DVC owners only own 1 resort? I bet it is a small amount judging by all the posts on here of people claiming to own multiple resorts. I own VGF, VGC, BLT, and now RR. Our BWV contract will be sold this year. If you told me I could only stay in those 4 resorts, I would still be very happy. Those are the 3 I like and another one I think I will really enjoy from everything I have seen. If your strategy is to buy one property and hope to be able to trade into every other property at some point, then more power to you. I bought where I wanted to stay so that I can usually book what I want at 11 months and not worry about being on the computer at 7am EST 7 months out duking it out with all the other non-owners of a particular resort to stay somewhere else. I also bought at different resorts that I like which is what it seems most owners do. Then there is the stalking and wait listing strategy if you don't get what you want. One strategy isn't better than the other overall. One is more economical but more time consuming, and the other is more expensive but less time consuming. They are just different strategies that really depend on what you want. Some people buy the cheaper properties and put in a lot of work into staying elsewhere. That time and stress isn't worth it to us, so we pay for the resorts where we want to stay. It's a trade-off either way. You can buy where you want to stay and have an easier time booking at more than 7 months out, or you can buy cheaper points and hope you get what you want but be willing to stay at somewhere other than your top choice. You can spend your money however you choose.

IMO, Riviera was built to appeal to people like me, those who buy and just want to book there and forget about it. This is not the best property for those who are buying and want to switch around at 7 months regularly even with direct points that allow it. If you are buying in with the 7 month flexibility as your top priority in today's market, then you need to buy the cheapest points via resale at the L14.

 

[stewart715]

How many DVC owners only own 1 resort? I bet it is a small amount judging by all the posts on here of people claiming to own multiple resorts. I own VGF, VGC, BLT, and now RR. Our BWV contract will be sold this year. If you told me I could only stay in those 4 resorts, I would still be very happy. Those are the 3 I like and another one I think I will really enjoy from everything I have seen. If your strategy is to buy one property and hope to be able to trade into every other property at some point, then more power to you. I bought where I wanted to stay so that I can usually book what I want at 11 months and not worry about being on the computer at 7am EST 7 months out duking it out with all the other non-owners of a particular resort to stay somewhere else. I also bought at different resorts that I like which is what it seems most owners do. Then there is the stalking and wait listing strategy if you don't get what you want. One strategy isn't better than the other overall. One is more economical but more time consuming, and the other is more expensive but less time consuming. They are just different strategies that really depend on what you want. Some people buy the cheaper properties and put in a lot of work into staying elsewhere. That time and stress isn't worth it to us, so we pay for the resorts where we want to stay. It's a trade-off either way. You can buy where you want to stay and have an easier time booking at more than 7 months out, or you can buy cheaper points and hope you get what you want but be willing to stay at somewhere other than your top choice. You can spend your money however you choose.

IMO, Riviera was built to appeal to people like me, those who buy and just want to book there and forget about it. This is not the best property for those who are buying and want to switch around at 7 months regularly even with direct points that allow it. If you are buying in with the 7 month flexibility as your top priority in today's market, then you need to buy the cheapest points via resale at the L14.

I agree with everything you said. I was more talking about ability to sell contracts. Right now via resale from O14, you are getting access to 93% of the DVC properties. With RVA via resale, you'd be getting access to roughly 7% of the DVC properties (one, being RVA). My post wasn't intended to say that someone should or shouldn't buy RVA. If you don't think you'll ever have a need to sell points, there is no reason not to buy RVA if you like it. And it does look great. Just not great enough, in my opinion, to buy via resale with restrictions. Direct? Definitely worth it.

 

[TexasChick123]

I agree with everything you said. I was more talking about ability to sell contracts. Right now via resale from O14, you are getting access to 93% of the DVC properties. With RVA via resale, you'd be getting access to roughly 7% of the DVC properties (one, being RVA). My post wasn't intended to say that someone should or shouldn't buy RVA. If you don't think you'll ever have a need to sell points, there is no reason not to buy RVA if you like it. And it does look great. Just not great enough, in my opinion, to buy via resale with restrictions. Direct? Definitely worth it.

I think whether Riviera will be worth it for resale will depend on many factors:

1) How much is it?
2) How hard is it to book a stay at Riviera at 7 months out?
3) How much do you want to stay at Riviera and only Rivera with those points?

I am not making any predictions on the answers to these three questions, but I will pose a hypothetical:
1) $100pp
2) Impossible to get studios, standard categories of all room types, and 2Brs
3) It's my favorite resort

Then this could be a good purchase for someone looking to stay in those room types regularly at Riviera.

For the sake of playing Devil's Advocate, let's look at this:
1) $170pp
2) Easy to book at 7 months for most rooms
3) I like it ok.

This is not the resort for you via resale with these answers.

You can change those answers up a lot and elicit different responses, but I think the point of the hypothetical is clear. It's impossible for those of us who have bought and those who do not want to/plan to buy to know how this resort will play out. It is new territory. It's all conjecture until we look back 5 or 10 years down the road. Maybe we are all making a huge mistake and are crazy for buying in, or maybe we're all crazy like a fox and could make out like bandits. Who knows?!? I'm obviously hoping for the latter.

With every new resort there is a lot of doubt and uncertainty surrounding it. This resort threw in a new wrench of resale restrictions. What if they offer a $100 booking fee at 7 months if you buy resale and want to use your points elsewhere? Does this make everything look different? My sincere feeling on it is that they want to do something to allow those owners to book elsewhere, but they don't want to offer it for free anymore. I am sure MANY different structures on how this will look are being researched and talked about to death in the management meetings. I could be completely wrong, and they do nothing. However, we know this new management team wants to capture every dollar they can, and this would certainly allow them to capture some of the resale market without being an active reseller which they seem against.

 

[stewart715]

I think whether Riviera will be worth it for resale will depend on many factors:

1) How much is it?
2) How hard is it to book a stay at Riviera at 7 months out?
3) How much do you want to stay at Riviera and only Rivera with those points?

I am not making any predictions on the answers to these three questions, but I will pose a hypothetical:
1) $100pp
2) Impossible to get studios, standard categories of all room types, and 2Brs
3) It's my favorite resort

Then this could be a good purchase for someone looking to stay in those room types regularly at Riviera.

For the sake of playing Devil's Advocate, let's look at this:
1) $170pp
2) Easy to book at 7 months for most rooms
3) I like it ok.

This is not the resort for you via resale with these answers.

You can change those answers up a lot and elicit different responses, but I think the point of the hypothetical is clear. It's impossible for those of us who have bought and those who do not want to/plan to buy to know how this resort will play out. It is new territory. It's all conjecture until we look back 5 or 10 years down the road. Maybe we are all making a huge mistake and are crazy for buying in, or maybe we're all crazy like a fox and could make out like bandits. Who knows?!? I'm obviously hoping for the latter.

With every new resort there is a lot of doubt and uncertainty surrounding it. This resort threw in a new wrench of resale restrictions. What if they offer a $100 booking fee at 7 months if you buy resale and want to use your points elsewhere? Does this make everything look different? My sincere feeling on it is that they want to do something to allow those owners to book elsewhere, but they don't want to offer it for free anymore. I am sure MANY different structures on how this will look are being researched and talked about to death in the management meetings. I could be completely wrong, and they do nothing. However, we know this new management team wants to capture every dollar they can, and this would certainly allow them to capture some of the resale market without being an active reseller which they seem against.

DVC/DVD do want to capture every dollar but first and foremost they want to effectively kill the resale market. Ultimately, I don't think RVA will sell for high enough on resale that DVD wouldn't scoop up every single one via ROFR.

 

[ray3127]

I don't think RVA will sell for high enough on resale that DVD wouldn't scoop up every single one via ROFR.

But isn't this a catch 22? If they scoop up every single one via ROFR, then the resale price will necessarily increase. I posted about this somewhere, either on this thread of the other main RVA one on this forum.

And I think one of the major points missed in the "gloom and doom for Riviera resale" discussion is the fact that several resorts exist where points are purchased for the sole purpose of staying at that resort. I purchased VGC resale at $180 per point for one reason--to use them there. RVA is not VGC, but the point is that if the resort turns out to be an in-demand hit, then the resale restriction may be irrelevant. If you want to stay there (in certain room types/categories), you better buy there. The resale restrictions will only create a vicious cycle that further increases demand for RVA points.

@TexasChick123 and many others are making a bet that it will be an in-demand resort, and I can't blame them.

I'm waiting to see RVA in action, to see how the gondolas work, and get a feel for the whole place. I'm just too risk averse, and I'm happy with the rest of my points anyway. But I see this place working out quite well, and I don't think the resale restrictions are going to be anywhere close to devastating.

 

[stewart715]

But isn't this a catch 22? If they scoop up every single one via ROFR, then the resale price will necessarily increase.

To an extent yes. This will drive price up in an effort to find a sweet spot that DVD isn't willing to pay for the contracts. However, that since this price would be driven purely by DVDs decision to not take any RVA points for say over $100 and not by basic economics of supply/demand, there will just be a surplus of contracts sitting on the market until a buyer is finally found. Because your only shot of getting anything back for your contract is to list it at that sweet spot price and get a bite (otherwise you’ll never get to the ROFR stage because it will be known that there’s no sense offering $80, you won’t get it).

Sure, you can have a friend place an “offer” for $80 to get it through to ROFR. I actually think this is something that will happen a lot, that’s a whole separate conversation.

There’s also another argument that DVD will only take 50% of contracts to keep prices low and keep a nice inventory of resale contracts that they can flip for 2-3x what they paid. This is the most likely scenario.

Long story short, just because ROFR is driving up the price to make contracts feasible for the resale market, doesn’t mean they will sell. And you are right. RVA is not VGF or even BWV or BCV. I just don’t see people paying the same price of an SSR contract (where you can stay at over 90% of the properties) for an RVA contract where you can only stay at RVA forever. But time will tell.

 

[chicagoshannon]

If the restrictions were lifted (specifically being able to trade other resorts INTO Riv) I would be less likely to buy. I am actually considering buying into Riviera because I like how they have the 1 bedroom set up and I don't have enough points to stay very long there currently. If the restrictions were removed and I could trade in I would buy resale to stay there.

So they actually might gain one sale from us.... maybe.

 

[FireflyTrance]

The new restrictions have made me not want to purchase any more DVC points at all. Direct or resale. If I buy direct and later want to sell, I can expect to get much less back. If I buy resale I can’t use those points at any of the new resorts. It becomes too much to keep track of. No matter what I am now getting an inferior product.

 

[GrumpyInPhilly]

The new restrictions have made me not want to purchase any more DVC points at all. Direct or resale. If I buy direct and later want to sell, I can expect to get much less back. If I buy resale I can’t use those points at any of the new resorts. It becomes too much to keep track of. No matter what I am now getting an inferior product.

Agree.