Resale Resorts Riv eligibility

[Brianstl]

So by that logic.... the location of Caribbean Beach Resort, Art of Animation and POP Century are better than Grand Floridian.
While you're right -- some people may subjectively prefer the location of Art of Animation over the location of the Grand Floridian, the majority of buyers certainly prefer Grand Floridian's location. As re-sale is a question of the market driving the price, all else being equal, you would expect a monorail resort to have greater demand than a skyliner resort.

And we really see this hold true is the resort pricing:

BLT, Poly and VGF all re-sell for $140-$160 per point
Boulder Ridge, with only boat transportation to MK -- $110 to $120 per point
The Epcot-walking resorts just slightly less: Boardwalk and Beach Club are $120 to $150 per point.
AKL, no monorail, no walkable parks -- $100 to $120 per point
SSR and OKW, often under $100 per point

The only oddity.. Copper Creek does very well, but still 35% off the "new" direct price, and still slightly below VGF.

If closeness to MK was the most important factor, BLT would be the most expensive resort per point resale instead of one of the best bargains when you factor in years remaining and maintenance fees.

I think deed expiration date is too often underrated when it comes to resort price and goes a long way in explaining the premium price per point on resale at the monorail locations and explains why Copper appears to be an outlier when you look at where the resorts are located. If anything the real location premium is being paid to buy at resorts that allow you to walk to Epcot with their 2042 expiring deeds and not the monorail resorts.

 

[Sandisw]

You are probably right, plus the maintenance fees are way higher at RIV, which will decrease what people are willing to pay. That said, my initial point was that people have been selling RIV for $120/$130 (asked my agent today, he has had 2 sold at those price points for 150/200 points), if resale restrictions are eliminated, I feel bad for the people who sold at this price point, when they could've made at least $10 more per point, more likely $20 more per point. That's a pretty big chunk of change.

I’ll add that VGF is being bought for in the $150s now based on our ROFR thread here, so people paying only $20 to $30 less for RIV with restrictions, could very well being it up closer to VGF if it didn’t have them...

 

[jennypenny]

So by that logic.... the location of Caribbean Beach Resort, Art of Animation and POP Century are better than Grand Floridian.

I'd say yes to Caribbean Beach. Between the recent renovations, having the main skyliner hub, and now the proximity to RVA and its amenities, I think it ranks high for people who aren't MK lovers (there are a lot of us who can go several trips without ever visiting the MK).

VGF is part of Disney's 'flagship' resort and Disney refers to it as such all the time, so the perceived value will always be higher there than any other property. RVA will never be as popular with the general public, even if the new and improved Epcot turns out as good as the Odyssey presentation advertises.

 

[TexasChick123]

I just wanted to add something. Whenever your company is doing poorly due to circumstances outside their control (pandemic and recession), they start to change circumstances within their control like resale restrictions. Of course these restrictions were hurting new sales. It kept us from buying more, and they know it. It kept many from buying in at all. When there’s a recession, all bets are off on what they’ll offer based on what they offered during better economic times. A year ago, they weren’t even seriously considering removing the resale restrictions. They were patting themselves on the back for their brilliant plan. Now, honestly, whomever is in charge should be fired if she doesn’t remove them. They have to boost sales. Removing the resale restrictions is free to them and will do that. Will it be too little too late? Possibly, but it’ll definitely help boost sales.

 

[davidl81]

I think BWV and BCV resale prices are impacted more by their expiry dates rather than their locations. I imagine they would be a lot higher if they had the same expiry as VGF.

Dear god think about that a BCV or even BWV resale would go for with say a 2060 expiration date. You would have to think BCV would be touching $180 a point if not more.

 

[ChipNdale8887]

This thread is really getting off topic in comparing RIV and VGF....

 

[havoc315]

That's a pretty low bar, Sandi.

The Riviera is a stunning resort and before the VGF walkway was constructed, I would say the location was probably on par, and arguably better than VGF (and by that, I mean reliance on any mass transit to get into a park sucks, but RIV to DHS via Skyliner beats the hell out of VGF to Epcot every day, twice on Sunday via monorail... unless there's lightning, but I digress).

I think what has hurt Riviera sales has been more psychological than material.

For one, the competing location status when held up against its cohort of Epcot resorts (BWV/BCV) - resort-specific awesomeness aside- puts it at a distant third for most owners whether by way of nostalgia ("my grandfather milled the stone that was used to build the Boardwalk so we bought in back in 1847 and have stayed there every year since!"), or by way of conveniently strolling in for breakfast crescents.

Closeness to Magic Kingdom is a greater premium than closeness to Epcot. While many of us (myself included) might prefer the Epcot area, it's a simple fact that Magic Kingdom gets a greater premium. Even regular hotels, the MK resorts can charge much higher prices than the Epcot area resorts.

But as to comparing Riviera to BWV/BCV.. it's not nostalgia. The big advantages of Riviera are simply newer and much longer contract. But the location of BWV/BCV is superior. The Skyliner is nice.... but doesn't run 24 hours per day and, as you mentioned, gets shut down for a storm. So you simply can't compare it to being a short walk from the parks. For me personally, you can't compare it to the dining and entertainment options that comes with being on or near the Boardwalk.
Riviera has 1 signature restaurant and 1 quick service. No buffets, no character dinners, no 1-credit TS restaurants. You can walk to Caribbean Beach, which basically adds a second QS and Sebastian's.

But if you're at BWV/BCV, you have easy access to:
Flying Fish, Yachtsman Steakhouse, ESPN Club, Big River Grill, Trattoria at Forno, Cape May Cafe, Beaches & Cream, Ale & Compass, AbracadaBar, Atlantic Dance Hall, and JellyRolls. (and more).

To get to those places from Riviera, you would need to take the skyliner to Epcot and then walk. And the Skyliner doesn't run very late -- So if you are having a late dinner, or going to one of the Boardwalk bars, there is no transportation back to Riviera apart from an uber.

So that's really the premium of BWV/BCV... yes, Riviera also has easy access to Epcot and DHS. But it just doesn't have the same access to all the different dining and entertainment options.

 

[havoc315]

I think BWV and BCV resale prices are impacted more by their expiry dates rather than their locations. I imagine they would be a lot higher if they had the same expiry as VGF.

That's a good point. It's shocking how well they do, considering they expire in just 22 more years.

Though yet another tangent -- It tells me they will do something very special with those locations in 2042. I don't think they will simply extend with a minor refurb. That's premium real estate, they will want to build up new premium resorts.
Imagine what they could get for the Riviera points, if it was sitting on the Boardwalk location?

 

[Sandisw]

This thread is really getting off topic in comparing RIV and VGF....

Some of it has to do with the value with restrictions being removed so it is connected,

However, let’s all remember to stick to that and not on the pros and cons of other RIV compared to others.

 

[RivShore]

I think the change is happening. They realized they screwed up and it killed sales even before COVID. Now they can make the change without admitting they're doing it because sales have been so poor, global pandemic is a good excuse.

Sales were not poor before Covid. Take a look at the direct sales thread, it was outselling VGF and CCV over their first 12 months. They would feel no need to change restrictions pre-covid. Post-covid, maybe.

https://www.disboards.com/threads/direct-dvc-sales-statistics.3806398/page-8

 

[TexasChick123]

Sales were not poor before Covid. Take a look at the direct sales thread, it was outselling VGF and CCV over their first 12 months. They would feel no need to change restrictions pre-covid. Post-covid, maybe.

https://www.disboards.com/threads/direct-dvc-sales-statistics.3806398/page-8

Yep. I agree. Pre-COVID, those restrictions were here to stay. Post-COVID, stay tuned...

 

[Wedgeout]

Key words “stay tuned”. I’m with all of you to stay positive and wait. But with each change to resale restrictions, they tend to grandfather you into what you had. What if this Riviera resale restriction stays and they like it so much they make a new resale buying restriction. Making all resale contracts only good at the purchased resort. Think that would help direct sales? How about resale prices then? Crazy thought but this has also been a crazy year.

 

[TexasChick123]

Key words “stay tuned”. I’m with all of you to stay positive and wait. But with each change to resale restrictions, they tend to grandfather you into what you had. What if this Riviera resale restriction stays and they like it so much they make a new resale buying restriction. Making all resale contracts only good at the purchased resort. Think that would help direct sales? How about resale prices then? Crazy thought but this has also been a crazy year.

Nah. They won’t do this right now. Despite all the boneheaded moves to date, I could see the financial reasons behind them. This would hinder direct sales further which would add to the problem. Also, for legal reasons, they can’t restrict you to your home resort if that isn’t the terms under which you purchased. It was discussed ad nauseam a year or two ago. Short version is that they can’t legally restrict any of the O14 to only their individual home resorts. They can trade with each other. It’s the reason they can trade into Riviera if they bought before the terms changed on 1/19.

 

[EM Lawrence]

I don’t think its a typo, and here is why: It’s the economy stupid.

(If you don’t get that pop culture reference, this is not me calling anyone stupid.)

 

[dvc lover 1970]

I just wanted to add something. Whenever your company is doing poorly due to circumstances outside their control (pandemic and recession), they start to change circumstances within their control like resale restrictions. Of course these restrictions were hurting new sales. It kept us from buying more, and they know it. It kept many from buying in at all. When there’s a recession, all bets are off on what they’ll offer based on what they offered during better economic times. A year ago, they weren’t even seriously considering removing the resale restrictions. They were patting themselves on the back for their brilliant plan. Now, honestly, whomever is in charge should be fired if she doesn’t remove them. They have to boost sales. Removing the resale restrictions is free to them and will do that. Will it be too little too late? Possibly, but it’ll definitely help boost sales.

I completely agree. Whoever was in charge got greedy and should be fired. This was a very poor plan. Now my question is if they reverse it can they reverse it again? How loose is the language?

 

[TexasChick123]

I completely agree. Whoever was in charge got greedy and should be fired. This was a very poor plan. Now my question is if they reverse it can they reverse it again? How loose is the language?

That’s the million dollar question. While they technically could possibly change it back in the future, they probably won’t. If they’re smart, which they are despite present appearances, they’ll form a new club (DVC2) with totally different rules.

 

[Liquidice]

Just posted, the waiver wording today changed back to 14 ... I guess it was a typo!

 

[Brianstl]

That’s the million dollar question. While they technically could possibly change it back in the future, they probably won’t. If they’re smart, which they are despite present appearances, they’ll form a new club (DVC2) with totally different rules.

And DLH is the perfect place to start it because of demand and extremely limited supply.

 

[Naglejen]

Breaking news...sounds like they changed the waiver back to 14 (my broker is seeing 14 in the latest batch)

 

[Liquidice]

Breaking news...sounds like they changed the waiver back to 14 (my broker is seeing 14 in the latest batch)

You're 4 mins too slow Just joking