Riviera resale restrictions lifting: possible

Matty B13

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
I believe their idea of changing their minds is going to involve a hefty fee of like $60 or more a point to “fix” your resale RIV points.
I wonder if they would be a little bit wary of trying this, because of the issue with the OKW extensions? I know it isn't quite the same situation, but it didn't turn out that great for DVC.
 

Sandisw

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Nov 15, 2008
Would Direct Owners who know very little about the resale market, even know about the rental market? I think most Direct Owners outside of Disboards and other forums have very little knowledge of the markets, and would be more likely to sell at a loss, than to have to deal with renting their points out. I don't think most people want to deal with the hassle.
That is a real possibility, of course. But, we don’t know that for sure and since this will be the first resort that will be sold with such different rules, it is a possibility that owners will hold on longer than in the past.

Lets be fair, everything that has been shared, including my own thoughts, are nothing more than speculation, and one wont really know the effects of this for quite some time...
 

Bearval

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Joined
Dec 31, 2017
I wonder if they would be a little bit wary of trying this, because of the issue with the OKW extensions? I know it isn't quite the same situation, but it didn't turn out that great for DVC.
One benefit of the ROFR to DVC was additional revenue for buying and reselling contracts. Buy devaluing the resales and charging a large fee to convert the points to "direct " DVC gets the benefits of the revenue without having to buy and resell the contracts
 
  • Sandisw

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    I believe their idea of changing their minds is going to involve a hefty fee of like $60 or more a point to “fix” your resale RIV points.
    If they did, whatever the fee would not make it cheaper than direct, so, I agree it would be a hefty amount.

    The other thing is I wonder if they made it a per reservation fee paid to book a different resort?
     

    Bearval

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    Dec 31, 2017
    If they did, whatever the fee would not make it cheaper than direct, so, I agree it would be a hefty amount.

    The other thing is I wonder if they made it a per reservation fee paid to book a different resort?
    I think if they did offer to charge a fee to give resale the same privilege as direct it would be based on the current market rate of resales and the fee would most likely be revised at least yearly and would only be offered after the resort sold out. As an example, if the going rate of resale is $100.00 a point for RIV and the current direct sold out rate is $200.00 a point DVC would charge you $100.00 a point to give you direct purchase status regardless of what you actually paid for it in resale. DVC may also give resale owners a shorter booking window say only 9 months as opposed to 11 months. This would cause several impacts by lowering the resale value which would increase what they would charge to convert your contract, also encouraging resale owners to do so since they have points that are now hard to book at a 9 month window and this would also make the purchase of small resale contracts more expensive than buying direct since the fee would be based on a fixed rate and there normally is a premium paid for small contracts . This would give DVC additional revenue without having to go thru the process of ROFR.
     

    we"reofftoneverland

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    Aug 5, 2015
    Just look at how low aulani goes for on resale. If you go there it is a great deal, but Disney cannot even sell out the resort. And that resort has access to the 14 through resale.

    I think as the direct product gets more expensive, people are more likely to step away and think it over for the night. All it takes is one google search and that buyer is not buying RIV. It’s not 1990 or even 2010 anymore. Pixie dust or not, people have information at their fingertips. Disney seems to think their average direct buyer is not very with it. I think Disney is really underestimating their customers. It’s arrogance on disney’s part. The executives at dvc need to read a bit of Shakespeare to see where arrogance leads.
     
    Last edited:

    ziravan

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    Just look at how low aulani goes for on resale. If you go there it is a great deal, but Disney cannot even sell out the resort. And that resort has access to the 14 through resale.

    I think as the direct product gets more expensive, people are more likely to step away and think it over for the night. All it takes is one google search and that buyer is not buying RIV. It’s not 1990 or even 2010 anymore. Pixie dust or not, people have information at their fingertips. Disney seems to think their average direct buyer is not very with it. I think Disney is really underestimating their customers. It’s arrogance on disney’s part. The executives at dvc need to read a bit of Shakespeare to see where arrogance leads.
    Even the pixie-dusted buyers today are going to most likely do at least a 5-minute google search in the DVC office.

    DVC has created a backlash regarding restrictions big enough to prominently figure into such a search.

    Page one of a safari search for “DVC Riviera”:

     

    RivShore

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    Sep 27, 2019
    Even the pixie-dusted buyers today are going to most likely do at least a 5-minute google search in the DVC office.

    DVC has created a backlash regarding restrictions big enough to prominently figure into such a search.

    Page one of a safari search for “DVC Riviera”:

    It has created plenty of discussion but there are also plenty of us who did the research before deciding it was still right for us. As that article said, "it's an incredibly personal decision".
     

    Sandisw

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    It has created plenty of discussion but there are also plenty of us who did the research before deciding it was still right for us. As that article said, "it's an incredibly personal decision".
    I agree. People are buying Rivera, knowing what the restrictions are and have decided, like you and I did, that it was worth owning,

    Anyone who wants to be able to stay there with regularity, even with google searching, will still buy there. Now, it may mean they buy less and just the minimum and then supplement with resale to have more points to trade to L14,

    IMO, people choosing not to buy at Rivera due to resale restrictions are people who are not sold on the resort, or already have eligible points to use at 7 months and don’t need a contract with restrictions.

    But, someone who sees not only a RIVera and future resorts as important, will continue to buy points there.

    And, if Disney through BVTC decided to change the booking window for different owners...as indicated in the new language with Rivera contracts..it could impact sales.
     

    Bearval

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    Dec 31, 2017
    I agree. People are buying Rivera, knowing what the restrictions are and have decided, like you and I did, that it was worth owning,

    Anyone who wants to be able to stay there with regularity, even with google searching, will still buy there. Now, it may mean they buy less and just the minimum and then supplement with resale to have more points to trade to L14,

    IMO, people choosing not to buy at Rivera due to resale restrictions are people who are not sold on the resort, or already have eligible points to use at 7 months and don’t need a contract with restrictions.

    But, someone who sees not only a RIVera and future resorts as important, will continue to buy points there.

    And, if Disney through BVTC decided to change the booking window for different owners...as indicated in the new language with Rivera contracts..it could impact sales.
    People who buy or want to buy at RIV are not looking to stay at OKW or AKL especially at the cost of the MFs. The resale restrictions are not going make a difference to them either
     

    ziravan

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    It has created plenty of discussion but there are also plenty of us who did the research before deciding it was still right for us. As that article said, "it's an incredibly personal decision".
    Just to stick my point, I can certainly see why someone would buy in spite of the restrictions.

    My point is that even the most spur-of-the-moment-no-due-diligence buyer can find out about the restrictions with a 5 min search.

    The day when DVC could sell to a large segment of buyers that are totally in the blind are coming to an end. After all, everybody has an internet connected computer in their pocket these days.
     

    DVC_HK

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    Aug 6, 2019
    People who buy or want to buy at RIV are not looking to stay at OKW or AKL especially at the cost of the MFs. The resale restrictions are not going make a difference to them either
    This a great point. I stayed at AKL on my SSR points but my RIV points are for only RIV. I'll use my original 125 at SSR to try new places if possible like AUL or HHI
     

    DougEMG

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    Aug 14, 2008
    Just to stick my point, I can certainly see why someone would buy in spite of the restrictions.

    My point is that even the most spur-of-the-moment-no-due-diligence buyer can find out about the restrictions with a 5 min search.

    The day when DVC could sell to a large segment of buyers that are totally in the blind are coming to an end. After all, everybody has an internet connected computer in their pocket these days.
    I really believe that the next generation coming up are so use to goggling everything on their phone that there is going to come an end to those easy days of selling to a large number of uninformed buyers. Timeshares are not going to be able to be sold like they have been as it just take one quick search to see just how bad a financial decision to purchase one is. So Disney wanting to follow industry standards (slimmy practises) is not a smart long term decision. Trying to squeeze a few extra percent profit out of their product, could cause a big enough backlash that it really hurts their brand.

    As someone that owns a lot of points, I really want DVC to be successful and remain a strong and popular brand. I'm just not convinced that the current management team is going to do that.
     

    _auroraborealis_

    I like marshmallows. And adult beverages.
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    Oct 18, 2015
    Realistically, I think after Reflections there are 1-2 more resorts on-site, tops. One can be the site of the Contemporary convention center, which is notably still not getting refurbished like the other centers.

    Then they have 2042 turnover to approach.

    There is also generational and economic factors that may come into play, especially if travel becomes more expensive.
     

    DougEMG

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    Aug 14, 2008
    Expensive airfare is a definite concern for me. If everyone starts adding carbon taxes to flights it could price a lot of people out of going to WDW.
     

    RivShore

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    Sep 27, 2019
    People who buy or want to buy at RIV are not looking to stay at OKW or AKL especially at the cost of the MFs. The resale restrictions are not going make a difference to them either
    We plan to use our Riviera points at other resorts, especially if we need to conserve points some years.
    I'm sure for you long time owners the MF's seem to have gone up way too fast, but being new members, Riv's did not seem that out of line with some of the older resorts. Oddly OKW is now the closest to Riv's MFs at just 6% less. Even compared to the average of all WDW resorts, it's just $1/point more so it's a chunk of change annually but not outrageous in my opinion.
    Now we'll see how quickly my opinion changes if they start going up quickly...
     

    _auroraborealis_

    I like marshmallows. And adult beverages.
    Joined
    Oct 18, 2015
    Expensive airfare is a definite concern for me. If everyone starts adding carbon taxes to flights it could price a lot of people out of going to WDW.
    Energy issues are certainly a part. Another is a cascade effect of all the other real estate trends we're already seeing on first homes, purchase and rental.
     

    Bearval

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    Dec 31, 2017
    We plan to use our Riviera points at other resorts, especially if we need to conserve points some years.
    I'm sure for you long time owners the MF's seem to have gone up way too fast, but being new members, Riv's did not seem that out of line with some of the older resorts. Oddly OKW is now the closest to Riv's MFs at just 6% less. Even compared to the average of all WDW resorts, it's just $1/point more so it's a chunk of change annually but not outrageous in my opinion.
    Now we'll see how quickly my opinion changes if they start going up quickly...
    Being the oldest resort OKW will start needing to have more items repaired or replaced that are not part of the hard and soft goods refurbishment.
     

    Bearval

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    Dec 31, 2017
    We plan to use our Riviera points at other resorts, especially if we need to conserve points some years.
    I'm sure for you long time owners the MF's seem to have gone up way too fast, but being new members, Riv's did not seem that out of line with some of the older resorts. Oddly OKW is now the closest to Riv's MFs at just 6% less. Even compared to the average of all WDW resorts, it's just $1/point more so it's a chunk of change annually but not outrageous in my opinion.
    Now we'll see how quickly my opinion changes if they start going up quickly...
    Maintenance fees over the life of your contract are going to be your biggest expense and will far outstrip the price you paid per point. As for booking at other resorts at the 7 month window it all depends on what resort, room type and when you want to go if you will be successful. It is getting harder and harder to book rooms at resorts that are not your home resort
     

    Wakey

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Dec 22, 2015
    I am like a stuck record here, but:

    Disboards DVC threads, 2013- "DVC is fantastic, buy it, love it, even with grumbles it is great, best timeshare on earth, good resale etc etc". This is exactly the vibe that led me to research further, not just dismiss, and buy in. Everyone happy.

    Disboards DVC threads 2019- Some good but lots of "Restrictions, rip off, hard sell, restictions, cannot use at 14, restrictions, blue card vs white card, points re allocation, lock off premium, cannot trust management, POS, greed".

    If I had looked in 2019, rather than 2013, well first of all I would have thought I do not understand what is going on here- white v blue, restrictions and what the hell is a POS etc- life is too short for this, and second, it looks quite 'dodgy' as I suspected, I will leave well alone.

    They took the world's leading timeshare, a massively profitable product anyway, with great efficacy, and basically damaged its reputation- for what? $$$$$ is what.

    Now ironically us moaners on here can see through it and still think it is pretty good (albeit many will not buy Riviera)- But as a newbie reading about what has happened?
     

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