Should you have to get training and a permit to have a child?

[Floridaman999]

Big Brother is watching.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

A government that determines who is allowed to procreate and who is not is absolutely horrifying.

Exactly.

In theory, yes. As a NICU nurse, I've see a LOT of crappy parents and sent babies home to them just knowing how hard their life will be. The one good part about them having a baby in the NICU for any length of time, is that we have mandatory education pieces that the parents need to do before discharge, and we can spend more time with them trying to teach them to be better parents, but in the end, their baby will go home with them and they can do as they please.

I had a NICU nurse think that about me. Since she never saw me there, visiting, she assumed that I never visited. She figured I didn't care and when he came home, I wouldn't have a clue what to do. She didn't realize that I wasn't allowed to drive and I had to rely on someone else to transport me to the hospital. That meant that I only there from 8am until 7pm. (yes, 11 hours a day) While I am sure that there are NICU parents that are clueless, please remember that you are only seeing these parents at their worst.

If this was implemented, I'm sure it would never be used for evil, ever.

Could you imagine?

 

[Domo]

So, if you fail at playing, do you leave certain body parts by the door on the way out?

 

[buzzrelly]

I had a NICU nurse think that about me. Since she never saw me there, visiting, she assumed that I never visited. She figured I didn't care and when he came home, I wouldn't have a clue what to do. She didn't realize that I wasn't allowed to drive and I had to rely on someone else to transport me to the hospital. That meant that I only there from 8am until 7pm. (yes, 11 hours a day) While I am sure that there are NICU parents that are clueless, please remember that you are only seeing these parents at their worst.

Ummmmmm, yea. I get it. That kind of a situation is not at all what I was talking about. And obviously, I know I am seeing these parents at their worst, but when they pop in for 10 minutes every few days, not even at a feeding time, and smelling like weed, ya know what? You're not a good parent. And still…I try to be patient with them to help them learn a little more about what their baby likes and doesn't like because if I don't, that baby will go home and suffer with parents who haven't bonded and have no idea how to cope with their own 2,3,4, etc... month old baby.

I would never judge a mom who is sitting there 11 hours/day as a crappy parent.

 

[ShadeDK]

The ill-conceived notion that government should regulate who may and may not procreate based on its determination of their fitness as a parent is hardly new. In 1935, Oklahoma passed a law requiring mandatory sterilization of habitual offenders convicted of multiple felonies.

The law was challenged, and that led to the Supreme Court’s decision in Skinner v. Oklahoma that procreation is a basic and fundamental right protected under the Constitution. The Court struck down the law as violating equal protection under the Fourteenth Amendment. Sterilization - or the denial of the right to procreate - wasn’t the problem. It was that the law as applied granted or denied the right on arbitrary and poorly defined grounds. Although decided nearly 80 years ago, the Court saw (and stated) the issue raised throughout this thread: the potentially discriminatory effect (with devastating impact) that the law could be used to achieve on certain classes or groups deemed “unfit” to procreate under the law.

So unless such a law could be drawn to avoid equal protection challenges (which a PP has noted is highly unlikely), or procreation is removed as a protected basic right (good luck with that), it seems what is suggested would be flat out illegal and unconstitutional.

So in summary: no.

 

[NYCgrrl]

A government that determines who is allowed to procreate and who is not is absolutely horrifying.

Handmaiden's Tale anyone?

 

[sk!mom]

Watch The Handmaid's Tale or the actual news on overly policed countries and see how steps like you suggest work out.

No- I have no desire to live in dystopia.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Handmaiden's Tale anyone?

Watch The Handmaid's Tale or the actual news on overly policed countries and see how steps like you suggest work out.

No- I have no desire to live in dystopia.

First thing that popped into my head reading this thread.

 

[Boardwalk Jedi]

No. Not sure how you can mandate one get a permit when that's not what they really need to conceive a child.

 

[erin1715]

I certainly understand the frustration behind the OP's post though. There are so many deadbeat parents out there, and it's disheartening.

 

[rotlex]

Absolutely NOT! Wow, just wow to anyone that even THINKS this would be a good idea.

 

[MamaBelle4]

Even if that was something I would want (and it IS NOT) there is no way to enforce this. Even if the government were to force birth control on all of childbearing age there is still the possibility of an unplanned pregnancy.

Governments HAVE effectively controlled population growth. When China had a one child mandate, infanticide was prevalent if you didn't get the gender you wanted.

So, not impossible to control, just, you know, horrifying and, well, evil.

 

[cabanafrau]

Curious if OP wants to volunteer themselves as first to be required to submit to the requirements -- of course with zero control as to the scoring required to receive the permit.

 

[scrapquitler]

I honestly don't know how this can possibly be possible. Many pregnancy are unintended. What happens in those cases? When a woman/couple become pregnant but do not have a "permit?"

I'm wondering this as well.

And besides that, if we don't want kids born to parents who are sick and unable to provide for their kids in a way deemed 'appropriate', what about families who run into issues (health, mental illness, poverty) AFTER they have kids?

It seems like having a license or something would result in a divided society, those deemed fit to have kids, and those deemed unfit. Over time, it would end up being very divisive because someone would decide that parents who don't take kids to church are unfit, or parents who don't have enough money, or whatever. Remember how messed up things are in China because of the one child policy, and the resulting lack of female children everwhere except orphanages? Yeah, there ya go.

 

[mjkacmom]

I’m actually in favor of providing a financial incentive to habitual crack moms for going on long term birth control. I think it would save money.

 

[Missy1961]

1,000 times no.

One million times no.

 

[NYCgrrl]

I’m actually in favor of providing a financial incentive to habitual crack moms for going on long term birth control. I think it would save money.

You've lived long.
It's now opioid mothers you should worry about and as you can see the song remains the same.

 

[mjkacmom]

You've lived long.
It's now opioid mothers you should worry about and as you can see the song remains the same.

Yes, I know, crack, meth, heroin - these poor babies. I do have sympathy for the addicts, but it would be nice to have these pregnancies not happen.

 

[manning]

Big Brother is watching.

"1984" watch the movie on youtube.

 

[DawnM]

Big Brother state? NO!

Visions of a dystopian society scare the snot out of me.