"Sleep-Around Points" (SAP) - The Thread

[gisele2]

The rule number one for buying sleep around points is being happy to stay at your home resort. One may think they're always going during slow times, but it won't always be true. I travel mostly during slow times and yet I went twice during marathon week end. I bought sleep around points but was happy with staying at my home resort when I wasn't able to switch.

The rule number two is being flexible with travel dates. What now is slow season may not be next year. End of January has been a very busy period this year, SWGE effect or a change of trend? However,what we can be sure of is that there will always be a slow season. Disney may reallocate the point charts to balance current demand, but it's a moving target: new events, old events cancelled, new promotions, even climate change will always contribute to a demand change. If one is bind to a specific time of the year for holidays, there is a risk in buying sleep aroung points, if one can choose when he travels, then he can have good success.

The rule number three is buying a cushion of points. A contract with the exact number of points needed for a stay in a specific unit, in a specific resort for a specific season will open the gates to addonitis. Don't count on a standard room (not even at AKV, the easiest standard to book among the not-SSR resorts), buy enough for the costly views that are often available and then buy a few extra points to account for possible reallocations or for having to travel in a costlier season. Rent the extra points if not needed or book a couple of nights if you're lucky, but do not rely too much on good deals.

The rule number four is booking at 7 months sharp. 5 seconds make a big difference in availability. If you're not willing to play the "fastest finger" game, sleep around points are not for you. And have a plan B and a plan C ready.

I think you are right . Was able to book 4 nights in October at PVB with my BLT points but it was a lot of stress.

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

This also applies to the majority if not all 1BRs aside from possibly VGC

I got my SSR points in my account last week and booked 4 nights in January in a 1BR at VGC today. YMMV but so far very happy with my $83/point purchase.

 

[intamin]

I got my SSR points in my account last week and booked 4 nights in January in a 1BR at VGC today. YMMV but so far very happy with my $83/point purchase.

Lol I guess I should clarify since you’re the second one to say it but of course its definitely possible to get VGC technically with any points but of the 1BRs its probably the hardest to book. Again, not saying it can’t be done lol. Also 83 dollars is a steal, I would’ve turned those into bungalow points lol.

edit: fixed. LOL.

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

Lol I guess I should clarify since you’re the second one to say it but of course its definitely possible to get VGC technically with any points but of the 1BRs its probably the hardest to book. Again, not saying it can’t be done lol. Also 83 dollars is a steal, I would’ve turned those into bungalow points lol.

edit: fixed. LOL.

Now I’ve just got to get as lucky with my next WDW trip in March/April… aiming for 1BR @ BCV/BWV… I’ve been assured many times that, worst case, a pool/Garden view at Boardwalk should be doable that time of year

 

[intamin]

Now I’ve just got to get as lucky with my next WDW trip in March/April… aiming for 1BR @ BCV/BWV… I’ve been assured many times that, worst case, a pool/Garden view at Boardwalk should be doable that time of year

1BRs should be open.. I hope at least for BWV. I don’t know when BWVs refurb will be done but hopefully before then. I’m pretty much hoping to just be able to grab some 1BRs at the crescent lake resorts over the years during summertime and then use my home booking during the rest of the year for the more coveted DVC travel times since I don’t think a BWV/BCV contract makes sense for me.

 

[emchen]

This math only works if you hold the contract to maturity, or close to it. The reality is that most people don't.

But there is the aspect of the big capital loss you take upfront with direct RIV points (I'm referring to the "direct - resale" price difference that applies once your contract closes) as opposed to no immediate capital loss with a resale purchase or even with VGF direct these days. You can say there is a capital loss of 8%-10% in the form of a resale broker fee, but that applies to all cases.

Someone selling out of their direct RIV contract after 5-7 years is likely to have experienced in retrospect a much higher annual cost of vacationing (MF + capital loss per point) versus someone who bought resale (anywhere) and sold after 5-7 years at prevailing prices. Most people probably don't go into this thinking they will sell after 5 years, but most also shouldn't go into this thinking they will hold a contract for 50 years.

This is a great perspective I hadn't thought of before. So buy RIV resale to use there...sell in 5-7 (or apocryphal 10) years, and compared to direct purchaser, be way ahead. Dang...I've made a big mistake buying direct VDH! Luckily, if I rent out 16 years out of 50, I'll have broken even.

I got my SSR points in my account last week and booked 4 nights in January in a 1BR at VGC today. YMMV but so far very happy with my $83/point purchase.

undeniable sense of satisfaction knowing you’ve traded into the most sought-after, hard-to-come-by property in DVC with your SAPs! Congrats!

 

[intamin]

This is a great perspective I hadn't thought of before. So buy RIV resale to use there...sell in 5-7 (or apocryphal 10) years, and compared to direct purchaser, be way ahead. Dang...I've made a big mistake buying direct VDH! Luckily, if I rent out 16 years out of 50, I'll have broken even.

I wouldn’t say you made a mistake buying direct VDH. I’m not sure many people will care they can’t use the points anywhere but VDH. Just like VGC even though technically those points can be used anywhere 90% of the time they’re probably being used at VGC anyways.

Riviera on the other hand suffers because there are other nearby resorts directly competing with it that don’t have restrictions. That being said I don’t really care about the restrictions personally as I consider the cost of the points money I don’t intend to recover aside from what I save by owning DVC. I buy direct because down the line I don’t want to worry about there being a whole bunch of resale RIV owners who can only book RIV and make availability tougher. This way I can at least guarantee if I have to use some RIV points I’ll be able to use them at somewhere Iike SSR if necessary. If I did buy resale RIV it’d likely be a small 50-100 point contract to supplement the direct points but that’s about it.

 

[DanCali]

Dang...I've made a big mistake buying direct VDH! Luckily, if I rent out 16 years out of 50, I'll have broken even.

Maybe - But probably not if you account for the possibility that initial cost you paid upfront could have been in a brokerage earning a very modest 4.4% annualized, which would have doubled your money in 16 years (or 7.1% annualized, which would have tripled your money in 16 years).

DVC has two things that make rentals less attractive vs some other systems -
(i) the high upfront cost (even resale) relative to rental income give you a high denominator when calculating ROI.
(ii) The expiring deeds guarantee a capital loss of 100% in 40-50 years and make it hard to earn decent "total returns" over time (rental income - capital loss).

That doesn't mean you should buy to use or rent to offset annual dues when you can. And the cost is easily justifiable if you instead used cash for each of your stays at WDW or DL (although if I didn't own, I wouldn't stay on property). But the odds of decent financial returns from rentals are very much stacked against you.

 

[emchen]

Maybe - But probably not if you account for the possibility that initial cost you paid upfront could have been in a brokerage earning a very modest 4.4% annualized, which would have doubled your money in 16 years (or 7.1% annualized, which would have tripled your money in 16 years).

DVC has two things that make rentals less attractive vs some other systems -
(i) the high upfront cost (even resale) relative to rental income give you a high denominator when calculating ROI.
(ii) The expiring deeds guarantee a capital loss of 100% in 40-50 years and make it hard to earn decent "total returns" over time (rental income - capital loss).

That doesn't mean you should buy to use or rent to offset annual dues when you can. And the cost is easily justifiable if you instead used cash for each of your stays at WDW or DL (although if I didn't own, I wouldn't stay on property). But the odds of decent financial returns from rentals are very much stacked against you.

I needed the sarcasm-emoji for my statement, lol. "ONLY 16 years"! ;-)

 

[Wakey]

Now I’ve just got to get as lucky with my next WDW trip in March/April… aiming for 1BR @ BCV/BWV… I’ve been assured many times that, worst case, a pool/Garden view at Boardwalk should be doable that time of year

1 bed pool garden is usually no problem at BWV. I have booked it before no issue, Xmas 2021 i had this view below. I’ve also had a 2 bed standard in summer. I haven’t found Beach Club an issue either, stayed there Xmas 2019 with the trusty sleep arounds.

 

[intamin]

1 bed pool garden is usually no problem at BWV. I have booked it before no issue, Xmas 2021 i had this view below. I’ve also had a 2 bed standard in summer. I haven’t found Beach Club an issue either, stayed there Xmas 2019 with the trusty sleep arounds.

Terrible, just terrible view /s

 

[emchen]

@HIRyeDVC said it well over at the ROFR thread,
“Vote casted! Very interesting thread I totally missed. It's not even a fair contest because Aulani subsidized is such a tiny subset of the overall Aulani ownership while SSR is the largest DVC resort that is actually sold out. They're also apples and oranges IMO because most people own SSR to primarily use at other resorts at 7 months while more Aulani owners probably use their points to actually stay at Aulani. I know I certainly fall in that category, especially for the hard to book SV hotel rooms. So many SSR owners say things like "I've never actually stayed at SSR." I don't think Aulani owners say the same.”

I suspect he’s right. The current poll should probably read, “…the most POPULAR…” instead of “the BEST”.

I can’t edit the poll and probably have to close it to start a new one. What 5 resorts do you guys think should be included in a new poll? I think VB subsidized, will need to be left out. Too rare maybe?

 

[HIRyeDVC]

@HIRyeDVC said it well over at the ROFR thread,
“Vote casted! Very interesting thread I totally missed. It's not even a fair contest because Aulani subsidized is such a tiny subset of the overall Aulani ownership while SSR is the largest DVC resort that is actually sold out. They're also apples and oranges IMO because most people own SSR to primarily use at other resorts at 7 months while more Aulani owners probably use their points to actually stay at Aulani. I know I certainly fall in that category, especially for the hard to book SV hotel rooms. So many SSR owners say things like "I've never actually stayed at SSR." I don't think Aulani owners say the same.”

I suspect he’s right. The current poll should probably read, “…the most POPULAR…” instead of “the BEST”.

I can’t edit the poll and probably have to close it to start a new one. What 5 resorts do you guys think should be included in a new poll? I think VB subsidized, will need to be left out. Too rare maybe?

To be fair, based on everyone’s definition of what SAP is, I think SSR is still the better option, mainly because it resides at WDW. Aulani is clearly the better resort IMO but most DVCers just can’t visit Hawaii as much.

 

[StoweFoSho]

I tend to use my Poly points at Poly, but have also used them to stay at VGF, AKL, BCV. I felt like buying Poly resale was a pretty good mix of getting Home Resort priority and a good value SAP. About to close on some SSR points; hopefully, they turn out to be pretty good SAP, and to upgrade to some 1 Bedrooms.

 

[DanCali]

To be fair, based on everyone’s definition of what SAP is, I think SSR is still the better option, mainly because it resides at WDW. Aulani is clearly the better resort IMO but most DVCers just can’t visit Hawaii as much.

But how often does home resort advantage even matter at SSR? Are there any times of the year when there are certain room types not available to book at 7 months out? Out of curiosity I checked just now and I see all room types available 7 months ahead, but I wouldn't know for sure about other times of year because it's not something I checked in the past. Looking at the availability history tables (https://www.dvcfieldguide.com/availability-tables), it seems that it may matter most for Standard View Studios and corresponding 2BR Lockoffs (about 25% of weeks in a year not available at 7 months), but even less than that for other room types. And it appears that during all the summer months, one could book anything they want at 7 months out, and possibly at 5 months out.

So if you can book the room type you'd want at 7 months out at SSR then it's effectively a second "home resort" for those who prefer AUL, AKV, Poly, Vero, or whatever else as SAP. There would be no meaningful difference between SSR points and AUL points in terms of what you end up with - an AUL owner who is looking to book WDW during school summer break and can't find what they want at 7 months out, would book SSR and end up with the same outcome as if they owned SSR to begin with.

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

But how often does home resort advantage even matter at SSR? Are there any times of the year when there are certain room types not available to book at 7 months out? Out of curiosity I checked just now and I see all room types available 7 months ahead, but I wouldn't know for sure about other times of year because it's not something I checked in the past. Looking at the availability history tables (https://www.dvcfieldguide.com/availability-tables), it seems that it may matter most for Standard View Studios and corresponding 2BR Lockoffs (about 25% of weeks in a year not available at 7 months), but even less than that for other room types. And it appears that during all the summer months, one could book anything they want at 7 months out, and possibly at 5 months out.

So if you can book the room type you'd want at 7 months out at SSR then it's effectively a second "home resort" for those who prefer AUL, AKV, Poly, Vero, or whatever else as SAP. There would be no meaningful difference between SSR points and AUL points in terms of what you end up with - an AUL owner who is looking to book WDW during school summer break and can't find what they want at 7 months out, would book SSR and end up with the same outcome as if they owned SSR to begin with.

SSR certainly has the least need to own to stay, but at the times where studios sell out (early December, new years, marathon, parts of fall) studios can sell out for specific days at SSR immediately at 7 months if not sooner.

If you’re not looking for those times, it probably doesn’t matter right now.

Just fair warning to whoever reads this - 5 years ago, there weren’t 4 times per year where anything sold out right at or before 7 months at SSR. Booking studios anywhere on property continues to get more difficult and more and more dates will likely be unavailable 5 years from now and even more 10 years from now.

There will certainly be dates where an Aulani owner cannot book a studio at WDW. A 2BR? More likely to be fine for a long while.

 

[Sandisw]

But how often does home resort advantage even matter at SSR? Are there any times of the year when there are certain room types not available to book at 7 months out? Out of curiosity I checked just now and I see all room types available 7 months ahead, but I wouldn't know for sure about other times of year because it's not something I checked in the past. Looking at the availability history tables (https://www.dvcfieldguide.com/availability-tables), it seems that it may matter most for Standard View Studios and corresponding 2BR Lockoffs (about 25% of weeks in a year not available at 7 months), but even less than that for other room types. And it appears that during all the summer months, one could book anything they want at 7 months out, and possibly at 5 months out.

So if you can book the room type you'd want at 7 months out at SSR then it's effectively a second "home resort" for those who prefer AUL, AKV, Poly, Vero, or whatever else as SAP. There would be no meaningful difference between SSR points and AUL points in terms of what you end up with - an AUL owner who is looking to book WDW during school summer break and can't find what they want at 7 months out, would book SSR and end up with the same outcome as if they owned SSR to begin with.

Here is why I would not want SAP for WDW outside of WDW. There is nothing to prevent BVTC from changing the rules that make trading in and out of a resort less than 7 months,

They could decide that AUL trades in/out at 5 months and not 7….so, if WDW is my goal, I’d want something there just in case. And, they have to right to make it different by resort if they feel demand balancing is needed.

While yes, SSR tends to be available most times at 7 months, and should not be an issue, there is always the chance what you want won’t be and you may not be able to get the room size you want.

 

[Wakey]

Terrible, just terrible view /s

 

[crisi]

Now I’ve just got to get as lucky with my next WDW trip in March/April… aiming for 1BR @ BCV/BWV… I’ve been assured many times that, worst case, a pool/Garden view at Boardwalk should be doable that time of year

When you have the points to book one bedrooms with SAP you will generally be MUCH happier than if you only want studios.

SSR certainly has the least need to own to stay, but at the times where studios sell out (early December, new years, marathon, parts of fall) studios can sell out for specific days at SSR immediately at 7 months if not sooner.

If you’re not looking for those times, it probably doesn’t matter right now.

Just fair warning to whoever reads this - 5 years ago, there weren’t 4 times per year where anything sold out right at or before 7 months at SSR. Booking studios anywhere on property continues to get more difficult and more and more dates will likely be unavailable 5 years from now and even more 10 years from now.

There will certainly be dates where an Aulani owner cannot book a studio at WDW. A 2BR? More likely to be fine for a long while.

This is really important for people who are buying to think about - Disney changes over time and your travel patterns will change over time. When we bought, we travelled in mid-October - the weekend BEFORE Food and Wine started. That's right, twenty some years ago, Food and Wine ran from late October to right before Thanksgiving - not the three months of booths it is now. BWV was easy to get as owners - and as an owner, I had no problem calling for a room even if I waited a bit past eleven months - standard, Boardwalk. Some people did that era's version of "walking" - calling day by day in the morning to make sure they got Boardwalk or Standard View. Over twenty years two things have changed - Food and Wine expanded - even before we took our first trip on our points. And Disney spent some time "encouraging" people to buy small contracts - 50 points would get you a blue card - and 50 points at BWV would get you a studio. That's made home a lot harder to book - but we don't go in mid-October any longer - in fact, we haven't done a trip to BWV in eight years - we usually use points to go to HHI in the Winter.

You may switch jobs and discover that the best time for you to travel is a DVC busy time. Disney might move an event right into your preferred week. You might find you need two bedrooms, or that studios fit you better than one bedrooms. As the 2042 resorts go offline, there are going to be a LOT of changes to booking patterns that are going to be hard to predict.

 

[disneydreamer1980]

I have a friend who bought into Vero beach really cheap several years ago and has never even visited Vero beach. She uses them exclusively at WDW resorts as SAP and says she never has much of a problem getting something she’s happy with