Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Reaction and Discussion *CONTAINS SPOILERS*

[TheMaxRebo]

So, I didn't really think about it until after leaving the movie, but at the very end of the movie, Finn opens a drawer and the Jedi texts are in the drawer. So Rey had already swiped those when she left, and while Luke didn't know that, there's a good chance that force ghost Yoda did.

yup, and makes even more sense to his line of (paraphrasing) "The girl has all the knowledge of the Jedi with her" - he meant literally, she has it (the books) with her

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I agree that I really like that as well...and I really hope they stick with Rey being from nobody. I think if you backtrack on that now...it will seem (a) like a response to whiny fanboys and (b) will make the overall arc seem even more directionless.

That’s one thing I disagree on. I don’t like the egalitarian anyone-can-be-a-Jedi thing. This is the one thing that strikes me as too much of a departure and contradiction. More of a current political statement than something that serves this saga / story.

I’m hoping that her parentage ends up being a lie — that it was a way for Kylo to try to manipulate her, or whatever.

I don’t think that ANY decision should be made for fear that it will look like caving to “fanboys”. Who cares?? What is best for the overall saga — that should guide it and that alone. Perhaps they’ll still stick with this if that’s what they deem best for the story. I hope they don’t.

I don’t think it makes the arc seem directionless at all. I think it can be explained as a manipulation and would be more consistent with the 7 movies that came before it.

 

[Grand Admiral]

whether on Ahch-tu or the Casino scene it seems like there was an effort in this movie to introduce more "interesting" creatures (sort of like what the Cantina scene and just Tatooine in general did in A New Hope)

I also just took it as Luke trying to show how remote he is living now and how hard it is to live on Ahch-tu to tie into his statement of the fact he specifically went to some place he couldn't be found. I don't think it was an excellent scene or anything but also didn't hate it - it's a 10 second scene in a nearly 3 hour movie doesn't seem like that big of a deal

Yes, and it's supposed to be disgusting! Luke is doing it specifically to gross out Rey and get her to leave him alone. That's the point.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Well, they still did need to tie-up the Finn vs Phasma storyline (which is more developed in the background books than in the movies) but that could have been handled more elegantly

And Rose does represent the "new" rebels and the new way of thinking and the "new new hope" - again, could have been handled more elegantly and in less time

The Casino part seems like a) they wanted something to be the new trilogy's Cantina scene with lots of different aliens, etc. and b) was where they were making the political statement of the film as most Star Wars movies have something to say about the current climate

I think it could definitely have been shortened (and also hated the set-up with contacted Maz, etc.) but I get the ideas they were going for.

I suspect you’re right about the thinking behind all of that. I still think these things fell flat, and that the movie would have been better with much of it cut.

I get the idea of the “new new hope” rebel — I just don’t get that coming from Rose (to paraphrase Seinfeld). And the connection with her and Finn onscreen is nonexistent IMO. They could have done much better here with casting and story, IMO.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Yes, and it's supposed to be disgusting! Luke is doing it specifically to gross out Rey and get her to leave him alone. That's the point.

Three words for it from my family: unnecessary, gratuitous, and ewww.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

That’s one thing I disagree on. I don’t like the egalitarian anyone-can-be-a-Jedi thing. This is the one thing that strikes me as too much of a departure and contradiction. More of a current political statement than something that serves this saga / story.

I’m hoping that her parentage ends up being a lie — that it was a way for Kylo to try to manipulate her, or whatever.

I don’t think that ANY decision should be made for fear that it will look like caving to “fanboys”. Who cares?? What is best for the overall saga — that should guide it and that alone. Perhaps they’ll still stick with this if that’s what they deem best for the story. I hope they don’t.

I don’t think it makes the arc seem directionless at all. I think it can be explained as a manipulation and would be more consistent with the 7 movies that came before it.

I've gone back and forth a bit on this - as the larger story arc of the main movies is the story of the Skywalker family ... so if Rey really is the key for the final trilogy and has no connection then it sort of makes the later last three movies really seem as a separate story rather than continuing the story of the Skywalkers.

Now, if in the end the storyline is more about Kylo and he comes to be the lead of the last trilogy then there is the Skywalker lineage then that could work, otherwise it would make sense for Rey to have some sort of connection

And she still could as either a) Kylo was just flat out lying to her or b) the people that left her on Jakku were her adoptive family not her birth parents (sort of like if Uncle Owen left Luke on Tatooine)

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I suspect you’re right about the thinking behind all of that. I still think these things fell flat, and that the movie would have been better with much of it cut.

I get the idea of the “new new hope” rebel — I just don’t get that coming from Rose (to paraphrase Seinfeld). And the connection with her and Finn onscreen is nonexistent IMO. They could have done much better here with casting and story, IMO.

I don't disagree at all that it didn't fall flat (and I would also add the eventual "battle" between Finn and Phasma was rather disappointing) - it could have been edited much tighter, etc.

Also, I don't know of any connection beyond what is show in TLJ between Rose and Finn - more the larger storyline between Finn ad Phasma is in books and beyond what is shown in the movie (if I wasn't clear on that, I was being inelegant as well )

 

[LSLS]

I've gone back and forth a bit on this - as the larger story arc of the main movies is the story of the Skywalker family ... so if Rey really is the key for the final trilogy and has no connection then it sort of makes the later last three movies really seem as a separate story rather than continuing the story of the Skywalkers.

Now, if in the end the storyline is more about Kylo and he comes to be the lead of the last trilogy then there is the Skywalker lineage then that could work, otherwise it would make sense for Rey to have some sort of connection

And she still could as either a) Kylo was just flat out lying to her or b) the people that left her on Jakku were her adoptive family not her birth parents (sort of like if Uncle Owen left Luke on Tatooine)

Think the problem really revolves around Carrie Fischer dying. If I remember correctly, she was supposed to be a main character in the final movie. With that turned on it's head, they may have to walk back the Rey being nobody idea. Or make the movie much more about Ren. Unless they hope people just forget this is supposed to be a Skywalker saga.

 

[skier_pete]

I've gone back and forth a bit on this - as the larger story arc of the main movies is the story of the Skywalker family ... so if Rey really is the key for the final trilogy and has no connection then it sort of makes the later last three movies really seem as a separate story rather than continuing the story of the Skywalkers.

Now, if in the end the storyline is more about Kylo and he comes to be the lead of the last trilogy then there is the Skywalker lineage then that could work, otherwise it would make sense for Rey to have some sort of connection

And she still could as either a) Kylo was just flat out lying to her or b) the people that left her on Jakku were her adoptive family not her birth parents (sort of like if Uncle Owen left Luke on Tatooine)

I would agree that it feels less and less like a continuation of the Skywalker saga, with only one player (the lead villan) left in that family. Of course Carrie Fisher dying hurt that storyline a lot, they may had wanted a final confrontation there, where Rey became almost like an adoptive daughter to Carrie. (Remember, she was raised by adopted parents.) I just don't think you can now come out and say "Oh, that's right, Rey was Luke's daughter! Just nobody knew it!" I mean, how do you bring her back around to the Skywalkers without is seeming completely silly. And even some other idea - the whole "She's Obi-Wan's granddaughter" idea - would seem completely out of left field now.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Think the problem really revolves around Carrie Fischer dying. If I remember correctly, she was supposed to be a main character in the final movie. With that turned on it's head, they may have to walk back the Rey being nobody idea. Or make the movie much more about Ren. Unless they hope people just forget this is supposed to be a Skywalker saga.

I would agree that it feels less and less like a continuation of the Skywalker saga, with only one player (the lead villan) left in that family. Of course Carrie Fisher dying hurt that storyline a lot, they may had wanted a final confrontation there, where Rey became almost like an adoptive daughter to Carrie. (Remember, she was raised by adopted parents.) I just don't think you can now come out and say "Oh, that's right, Rey was Luke's daughter! Just nobody knew it!" I mean, how do you bring her back around to the Skywalkers without is seeming completely silly. And even some other idea - the whole "She's Obi-Wan's granddaughter" idea - would seem completely out of left field now.

I definitely agree that Carrie Fisher's death may have impacted the storyline they were planning - though still feels like somehow the new generations (and leads of these films) needs to be connected somehow

But a lot of the story has been the Skywalkers bringing balance to the Force and maybe it is Kylo's role and he does end everything and then Rey moves things on to something else, so it is more Kylo is the lead of this trilogy and Rey's role is to kick-start the next story or something

More I think /overthink it the more pressure I see on Episode IX to really deliver and tie a lot together

 

[ITALIANNYC]

I personally hated the movie and thought it was the worst SW movie I have seen.

For anyone to even care about the first order vs the Resistance, there has to be a main villain of the sith. That villain should have been snoke, who I actually cared about and who seemed to be completely menacing. I couldnt wait to hear about his past, and how he started the first order after the empire. How he was trained, and to learn all about the knights of Ren. NOPE. Hes dead. A real sith lord would have felt that happening and he wouldn't have been killed. But this isnt a real star wars movie to me and they changed everything youve learned in past movies. Kylo already does not seem like a threat because we know there is a part of him that is good. There is no PURE EVIL. For that reason, I have absolutely nothing to look forward to in the next movie. You need a massive villain that is evil to go up against the good. This movie does not have it anymore. Kylo should have killed Leia. Plain and Simple. Than he becomes PURE EVIL

Sith vs Jedi is the whole point of the star wars universe.

Rey knowing how to use the force so easily completely ruins the jedi storyline for her. It just takes away the whole point of it being so special to be a jedi.

Even Mark Hamill hates what they did to his character and I could not agree more. This man never wanted to be found, yet left a pathway to find him incase he is ever needed. This new director butchered everything that JJ Abrams set up.

The lea acting like Mary Poppins thing was just so bad. The finn storyline went nowhere and was one of the most boring aspects of star wars I have ever seen. In the end, they should have let him sacrifice himself. At least at the moment you felt something of impact while watching, but in the end, he is saved and lives.. Just about how every other situation involving the resistance goes. There heroes never lose. The beginning scene should have been a slaughter. The ending scene should have been a slaughter. At that moment, you actually have a reason to care about them. I have no reason to care about them now. You end up caring about KYLO more than RAY, and hes your main VILLAIN? Come on

In reality, what exactly is there to even look forward to next movie? There is no massive evil enemy. Ray already from the first movie was doing Jedi things, without even having a past or training. Finn is just there. Poe wasn't a nice person in the movie. The love story Finn had was so cringe worthy and the acting bad.

The jokes were bad. The opening scene with Poe making believe he can't hear the guy was SO HORRIBLE. Any feeling of menace of the first order is gone at that point. They are not respected. It was deff disneyfied

Most disappointing movie I have seen in a long time. I honestly wish they can redo it with a new director who didn't just ruin the legacy of Star Wars, and made Luke look like a joke

On a side note, Han Solo was so missed in this movie. It makes me realize that he really was the key reason why the force awakens was so good.

In the end.. Hated it. Sorry lol

EDIT: I was in Disney Springs after the movie and saw a shirt that said " The force is strong in my family" Man it made me feel good, and made me hate the movie even more after seeing what they did to Lukes Character. Luke should have led Ray to defeat Snoke in the last movie, and then he dies, ending the linage, and starting with a fresh new jedi who can train more of them. Nope

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I personally hated the movie and thought it was the worst SW movie I have seen.

For anyone to even care about the first order vs the Resistance, there has to be a main villain of the sith. That villain should have been snoke, who I actually cared about and who seemed to be completely menacing. I couldnt wait to hear about his past, and how he started the first order after the empire. How he was trained, and to learn all about the knights of Ren. NOPE. Hes dead. A real sith lord would have felt that happening and he wouldn't have been killed. But this isnt a real star wars movie to me and they changed everything youve learned in past movies. Kylo already does not seem like a threat because we know there is a part of him that is good. There is no PURE EVIL. For that reason, I have absolutely nothing to look forward to in the next movie. You need a massive villain that is evil to go up against the good. This movie does not have it anymore. Kylo should have killed Leia. Plain and Simple. Than he becomes PURE EVIL

Sith vs Jedi is the whole point of the star wars universe.

Rey knowing how to use the force so easily completely ruins the jedi storyline for her. It just takes away the whole point of it being so special to be a jedi.

Even Mark Hamill hates what they did to his character and I could not agree more. This man never wanted to be found, yet left a pathway to find him incase he is ever needed. This new director butchered everything that JJ Abrams set up.

The lea acting like Mary Poppins thing was just so bad. The finn storyline went nowhere and was one of the most boring aspects of star wars I have ever seen. In the end, they should have let him sacrifice himself. At least at the moment you felt something of impact while watching, but in the end, he is saved and lives.. Just about how every other situation involving the resistance goes. There heroes never lose. The beginning scene should have been a slaughter. The ending scene should have been a slaughter. At that moment, you actually have a reason to care about them. I have no reason to care about them now.

In reality, what exactly is there to even look forward to next movie? There is no massive evil enemy. Ray already from the first movie was doing Jedi things, without even having a past or training. Finn is just there. Poe wasn't a nice person in the movie. The love story Finn had was so cringe worthy and the acting bad.

The jokes were bad. The opening scene with Poe making believe he can't hear the guy was SO HORRIBLE. Any feeling of menace of the first order is gone at that point. They are not respected. It was deff disneyfied

Most disappointing movie I have seen in a long time. I honestly wish they can redo it with a new director who didn't just ruin the legacy of Star Wars, and made Luke look like a joke

On a side note, Han Solo was so missed in this movie. It makes me realize that he really was the key reason why the force awakens was so good.

In the end.. Hated it. Sorry lol

Sorry you didn't like it - understand a lot of your points. I get what you are saying about needing a "big bad guy", though also find the route they are going to be interesting rather than rehashing ... I do think it puts pressure on Episode IX to either elevate Kylo to a legit truly Evil "big bad guy" or to have something else (there are a lot of theories around Snoke not actually being dead and Rian Johnson himself has said Snoke will be in Episode IX)

As to your point about Mark Hamill - i think it is more accurate to say he initially didn't like the direction his character was taking, but changed his mind after seeing the finished film

lastly I definitely get what you are saying about Han - I think his attitude and character brought the humor these films need without it feeling as forced as it did at times in TLJ. I think they are trying for Poe to be that type of character and sometimes it works but sometimes it doesn't - certainly doesn't seem as easy-going as with Han

 

[LSLS]

I
Even Mark Hamill hates what they did to his character and I could not agree more. This man never wanted to be found, yet left a pathway to find him incase he is ever needed. This new director butchered everything that JJ Abrams set up.

Needs to be pointed out AGAIN, this is not true. Hamill said he initially questioned the decision, but that he then really liked it. I'm with him. Thought what they did with Luke was great, and it was the exact same they did with most jedis.

There is a line from Han in TFA that seems like a throwaway line. He says something like "Luke just left. Rumor is he went searching for the first Jedi temple." The map leads to the first Jedi temple. Everyone seems to assume Luke left a map so he could be found. Unless I missed it somewhere, I don't ever remember hearing the map was left by Luke. I always had the assumption that both sides were convinced Luke went to the first Jedi temple, and the map would take them to that place.

 

[ITALIANNYC]

Needs to be pointed out AGAIN, this is not true. Hamill said he initially questioned the decision, but that he then really liked it. I'm with him. Thought what they did with Luke was great, and it was the exact same they did with most jedis.

There is a line from Han in TFA that seems like a throwaway line. He says something like "Luke just left. Rumor is he went searching for the first Jedi temple." The map leads to the first Jedi temple. Everyone seems to assume Luke left a map so he could be found. Unless I missed it somewhere, I don't ever remember hearing the map was left by Luke. I always had the assumption that both sides were convinced Luke went to the first Jedi temple, and the map would take them to that place.

@HamillHimself

✔@HamillHimself

I regret voicing my doubts & insecurities in public.Creative differences are a common element of any project but usually remain private. All I wanted was to make good movie. I got more than that- @rianjohnson made an all-time GREAT one! #HumbledHamill https://twitter.com/StupendousWave/status/945409809150500865 …


In my opinion he obviously said that because the studio was getting hit hard from his past reactions. There are numerous interviews the past 2 years of him hating everything they were doing with his character. I highly doubt he all of a sudden had a change of heart. He is just being PC about it. I have no doubt in my mind that he doesn't mean a word that he wrote or said praising it

 

[ITALIANNYC]

Sorry you didn't like it - understand a lot of your points. I get what you are saying about needing a "big bad guy", though also find the route they are going to be interesting rather than rehashing ... I do think it puts pressure on Episode IX to either elevate Kylo to a legit truly Evil "big bad guy" or to have something else (there are a lot of theories around Snoke not actually being dead and Rian Johnson himself has said Snoke will be in Episode IX)



lastly I definitely get what you are saying about Han - I think his attitude and character brought the humor these films need without it feeling as forced as it did at times in TLJ. I think they are trying for Poe to be that type of character and sometimes it works but sometimes it doesn't - certainly doesn't seem as easy-going as with Han

Well thats the main issue. You can't progress someone to that kind of evil in one movie. The first movie we saw a glimpse. At the end, Snoke said he will now complete his training. In Last Jedi, I expected him to have grown and evolved into a true sith. It did not happen. They ignored that. So thats why I see no hope in the next movie. I really feel there is nothing to look forward to because the story didn't dictate that in the last Jedi.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Well thats the main issue. You can't progress someone to that kind of evil in one movie. The first movie we saw a glimpse. At the end, Snoke said he will now complete his training. In Last Jedi, I expected him to have grown and evolved into a true sith. It did not happen. They ignored that. So thats why I see no hope in the next movie. I really feel there is nothing to look forward to because the story didn't dictate that in the last Jedi.

well, the point is that he wanted to end the Sith as well - so he is a new type of villain with a new directive and goal. It's clearly a new direction and it won't work for some people and that's cool - no movie is going to make everyone happy but I also know a lot of people who love this aspect and are super glad it isn't more of the same. Personally I liked Kylo a lot more in the is movie than TFA and the development of the character - I think he is a lot more interesting, but that needs to continue to develop in Episode IX - like I said, lot of pressure on Episode IX to deliver and tie up loose ends I think

 

[skier_pete]

In the end.. Hated it. Sorry lol

Tell us how you really feel.

@HamillHimself

✔@HamillHimself

I regret voicing my doubts & insecurities in public.Creative differences are a common element of any project but usually remain private. All I wanted was to make good movie. I got more than that- @rianjohnson made an all-time GREAT one! #HumbledHamill https://twitter.com/StupendousWave/status/945409809150500865 …


In my opinion he obviously said that because the studio was getting hit hard from his past reactions. There are numerous interviews the past 2 years of him hating everything they were doing with his character. I highly doubt he all of a sudden had a change of heart. He is just being PC about it. I have no doubt in my mind that he doesn't mean a word that he wrote or said praising it

While I will agree that this was clearly a PR statement that they asked him to put out, if you read or watch ALL of the interviews with Hamill in their entirety, every single time he says something along the lines of "I hated what he did to Luke, but then as time went on I realized how great it was." Every single one of those snippets of him saying he hated it were taken as sound bites / quotes without the entire context.

BTW - you shouldn't need to justify your dislike of the movie by requiring Mark Hamill to agree with you. If you hate it, you hate it. I think even the many of us that love it can understand why it wouldn't be liked / seen as true Star Wars.

The beginning scene should have been a slaughter. The ending scene should have been a slaughter.

OK - this is the one thing I don't understand in your statement - the beginning and the end ARE slaughters... at the beginning of the movie, the resistance is maybe a few thousand strong, at the end there are only maybe 50 people left alive. In addition, at the end, they basically say that none of their allies are coming to help them. What more slaughter of the resistance do you want? Part of what Rian Johnson said he wanted to do was push the resistance to the absolute brink. In the end, Luke comes back and saves the resistance, both literally and figuratively. The implication of the end is the story of his return is enough to push others to join the resistance.

 

[skier_pete]

well, the point is that he wanted to end the Sith as well - so he is a new type of villain with a new directive and goal. It's clearly a new direction and it won't work for some people and that's cool - no movie is going to make everyone happy but I also know a lot of people who love this aspect and are super glad it isn't more of the same. Personally I liked Kylo a lot more in the is movie than TFA and the development of the character - I think he is a lot more interesting, but that needs to continue to develop in Episode IX - like I said, lot of pressure on Episode IX to deliver and tie up loose ends I think

Yeah - I think that's a real problem with what IX has to do - it almost has to be a beginning as well as a conclusion. Tough road to hoe.

It's the real problem of a franchise like this...things can't ever "conclude". Return of the Jedi tied the whole thing up in a nice bow. The Emperor is defeated, the rebel alliance wins, everyone celebrates. Are we allowed to even have that now? They have to just keep on fighting to justify the next movie. It's the biggest problem with the Marvel movies, you can't just have a happy ending, the ending of the movie has to practically set up the next movie...

As far as the Jedi vs Sith though - I'm good with getting rid of them. What the hell are the Sith anyways? It's always a master and apprentice, but no idea where they come from or how a new one comes along? It's all really dumb. A Lucas dumped on the Jedi so hard in the prequels - they're all a bunch of morons. If the prequels didn't exist I probably would want more of them, but those prequels just made the Jedi so worthless - like they deserve to lose.

 

[bladiator]

The opening scene with Poe making believe he can't hear the guy was SO HORRIBLE. Any feeling of menace of the first order is gone at that point. They are not respected.

I think this is perfect human nature. We see it all around us. What do we do if we get scared of someone that may or may not have the ability to drop a nuke on us? Make fun of him. We take solace in humor to stop our fear. The internet is pretty much a living testament to people trying to make bad jokes to mask their fears. I don't think this part was nearly as bad as you're making it. At least, not for the reason you're saying it was so bad. If it just wasn't funny to you, then that's different.

 

[Ariel484]

I don't disagree at all that it didn't fall flat (and I would also add the eventual "battle" between Finn and Phasma was rather disappointing)...

Yes, totally agree with this!

The one thing I did like about that battle was when they had the shot of her with her helmet cracked and you could see part of her face. Sometimes I forget that the Stormtroopers are actually people and not just robots! (Probably thanks to me being newer to Star Wars!)

The jokes were bad.

On a side note, Han Solo was so missed in this movie.

I snipped both of these from your post because in my mind, they're related. I felt like Han Solo could deliver humor in a but more of an effortless way and with a smirk - like he was in on it with those of us watching, and I miss that. I agree that the jokes didn't land for me in this one and felt forced.

Also agree that they're now missing a BIG BAD GUY (like the Emporer from the OT), but I do like Kylo Ren as a character (whiny but interesting). I'm curious to see where they go with him.