Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker discussion thread (*** now contains spoilers ***)

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Should pass $1 billion in box office over the next few days. Don’t think it’s a disappointment necessarily financially speaking but it has underperformed.
They’ve certainly made their money back and a bit of a profit. Crazy that it’s just barely going to outgross Phantom Menace 20 years later though. Real curious if it’ll beat Rogue One, I think it’s going to land right about there.
 
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They’ve certainly made their money back and a bit of a profit. Crazy that it’s just barely going to outgrows Phantom Menace 20 years later though. Real curious if it’ll beat Rogue One, I think it’s going to land right about there.
Yeah I don’t think Disney was thinking hope TROS does as well as Rogue One. It has had a very favorable holiday schedule that has helped it also with the holidays falling in the middle of the week.
 
How any one can claim that all three movies were made from a single planned story line is burying their head in the sand. Who cares about all these quotes, just watch the three movies. They're a mess.

Here's the thing, I don't think it was planned, other than the very broad strokes. I just don't see that as a BAD thing and I think it all came together well. The OT wasn't super planned out either.
 
My kids watched The Last Jedi the other night for the first time. My DD9 just watched all the Star Wars movies for the first time over the past few weeks (she found them scary before) and my DS6 and seen a few of them before. But this was their first time watching TLJ and when Luke tossed that lightsaber over his shoulder, my daughter's mouth dropped open and she said "Luke would never do that!" and the rest of the movie my kids proceeded to ask me why Luke was acting that way and that's not how Luke would act. So if kids who have only seen the movies once think Luke was acting out of character, I think it must be pretty obvious! ;) I don't love TLJ but I did NOT go into it thinking I wouldn't like it or prepared to not like it - in fact I love Star Wars so much that I was shocked when we left the movie theater and I hardly knew what to say. I hate the childish gags in the movie and I do think Luke acts out of character. I don't love Luke's story line but I could get on board with it if I felt that Luke acted in character. I also really dislike the Canto Bight story line because it ends up being completely pointless so it just feels like a waste of time. And I also think the movies just don't flow well.

As far as The Rise of Skywalker, I liked it about as much as could be expected. I went into it cautiously optimistic and reading absolutely nothing about it. I felt like they did the best they could with where the storyline was at. But I didn't love it and I don't think they did a great job with the sequel trilogy. They were definitely entertaining but I just didn't really connect with the characters.
 


Here's the thing, I don't think it was planned, other than the very broad strokes. I just don't see that as a BAD thing and I think it all came together well. The OT wasn't super planned out either.

The OT wasn't I agree but they created a happy accident. The broad strokes weren't planned either just look TLJ.

It didn't come together either. But if you're happy with it, that's fine with me. I cant tell people how to enjoy things.

But it should have been so much better, but the whole thing was hacked together.
 
The OT wasn't I agree but they created a happy accident. The broad strokes weren't planned either just look TLJ.

It didn't come together either. But if you're happy with it, that's fine with me. I cant tell people how to enjoy things.

But it should have been so much better, but the whole thing was hacked together.

And yet you keep trying. And, as I keep saying, we don't really know to what point it was planned out, though I do think there was a basic framework. To me it came together. Laying out all the details at the outset wouldn't necessarily have resulted in a better end result. You seem to assume that if they had, TLJ would have been different, but we don't really know that. Rian Johnson would have been part of the process from the beginning so it may have come out similarly anyway. We just don't really know.
 
but we don't really know that. Rian Johnson would have been part of the process from the beginning so it may have come out similarly anyway. We just don't really know.

I'm not telling you what to enjoy. I'm certainly not trying. But saying "we just don't really know" is laughable. The resulting product is proof enough that there wasn't any central planning.
 


I'm not telling you what to enjoy. I'm certainly not trying. But saying "we just don't really know" is laughable. The resulting product is proof enough that there wasn't any central planning.

But you're so absolutely sure. To me, the end result flows together nicely, but you insist that I am wrong about that. Just because the planning didn't go the way you would have liked it to, doesn't mean their process was flawed, especially when we don't even know to what extent things were planned. What am I supposed to do? Agree with you that they MUST not have planned it out and it shows in the work - that is the three absolutely wonderful and entertaining movies that they made that have all grossed over a billion dollars? Fine they didn't plan it - and they shouldn't start now.
 
Without getting into a line by line debate, I really don’t think you “get what RJ was trying to do” if you insist in the next breath that it’s “stupid.” It’s not how you wanted the story to go, and that’s fine, but those emotions are clouding your judgment if you think it’s “stupid” or “bad storytelling.” The writing was all there even if it wasn’t the story you wanted to see told.



This. Luke went on a quest to find the first Jedi temple. He left R2 a map to where he was going and found it. Something after getting there, reading whatever sacred texts he found, meditating and ruminating on his failure, led him to stay. He didn’t set out to hide, but rightly or wrongly, from his point of view he saw that (to paraphrase what someone else said) training new Force users on the light side always had the potential to end up with them on the dark. This, as you’ll recall is the reasoning behind Yoda not wanting Anakin trained to begin with. Luke took it a step further and reasoned against clinging to the belief that only a renewed Jedi Order could preserve the light:
“And this is the lesson. That Force does not belong to the Jedi. To say that if the Jedi die, the light dies, is vanity. Can you feel that?”

I also think it’s getting overlooked that Luke did train Rey. Reluctantly at first, after sussing her out, but it didn’t take until Yoda and the last act of TLJ for him to come around. He was hesitant for good reason; if you think about how she was drawn to the dark, and how her innate power (spare me all that “Mary Sue” BS) on the level of Kylo Ren scared Luke of her going dark in a way he wish he had been scared of for Ben before the fall of the temple. Taken as a whole with TRoS, can you still blame him?

What kept him from coming with Rey on the Falcon included the correct notion that him going out there with a lightsaber to take on the whole First Order wasn’t going to accomplish anything. Maybe if he hadn’t cut himself off from the Force; if he had straightened what had really happened at the Temple out with Ben, things could have been different, but that ship had sailed before Rey came to the island holding a lightsaber in TFA. The “legend” could have come back, but not in enough time to save the day, and he recognized that. What he ended up doing by Force projection accomplished more for the cause than he could have by getting on the Falcon.

Remember the themes of the movie, “the greatest teacher, failure is” and how they’ll win by “not fighting what we hate, but saving what we love.” Individual character arcs in TLJ didn’t occur in isolation. It was one thematic story that resonated as a whole. What Yoda said applied to Finn, Rose, and Poe too, and what Rose said applied to Rey, Luke, and Leia. And, especially with regards to ReyLo (my wife prefers “Bey”), they carried into TRoS too.

While I didn't like TLJ, I understand and respect your take on the film. But that line right there infuriates me. Not the idea but the context to how and when it was used was just so incredibly off (IMO).
 
While I didn't like TLJ, I understand and respect your take on the film. But that line right there infuriates me. Not the idea but the context to how and when it was used was just so incredibly off (IMO).

I tend to find flowery dramatic speech from an injured character right before they pass out to be a grating trope, so I definitely understand you there. It was an important theme to the movie though and hammered it home a bit more explicitly than the (IMO, better) "Now it was worth it" line on Canto Bight when she freed the horsey thing.
 
I'm not telling you what to enjoy. I'm certainly not trying. But saying "we just don't really know" is laughable. The resulting product is proof enough that there wasn't any central planning.
Proof for you maybe. But there are plenty of people out there who actually enjoyed the movies and found that the flowed very nicely. No idea how you can possibly say that your opinion of the movies is proof.
 
In my opinion, its obvious that the sequel movies weren't planned out ahead of time. You can see this by the way they answer one of the main questions of the trilogy: Who is Rey? In The Force Awakens, we meet Rey and we can see that she's powerful with the Force and the movie constantly asks who she is, where did she come from? The Last Jedi did not HAVE to answer this question, but they chose to: Rey is nobody, just a girl from no important lineage. They spent most of the movie having Rey try to figure out the answer to this question and not only does Kylo Ren answer this for her very clearly ("You're nobody") but they also reinforce this with the storyline of the slaves on Canto Bight - especially the scene at the end of the movie. You are supposed to whole-heartedly believe at the end of this movie that Rey is not a member of one of the powerful Star Wars families that we know and she really is just a girl from nowhere who happens to be strong in the Force. When we watch The Rise of Skywalker, we're shown very early on that this is false. Kylo Ren very quickly tells Rey that she's actually the granddaughter of Palpatine and we find out that oh yeah, he's alive too. So these movies very clearly contradict each other in this instance, a question which I believe is very central to the trilogy. I don't think it's opinion that they contradict each other, I think that's a fact. Now what IS opinion is whether this was intended or not. I personally don't think it was intended but others might. I would find it a very strange business decision to spend millions of dollars to make a 2.5 hour movie that is essentially a "fake out" and that you're intending to reverse in the final movie. What would be the point of that? Just to make the reveal even bigger?? There's zero evidence that Palpatine was still alive in the first 2 movies. They could have revealed Rey as a Palpatine in TLJ and still kept the secret of the emperor being alive. If they were worried that would spoil that big reveal, then why did they reveal it in the opening crawl of RoS? And why did they reveal Rey being a Palpatine so quickly and without much lead up? In my opinion, they made that all VERY underwhelming in the way that was revealed in RoS. If that had been revealed in the scene in TLJ where Rey is in the cave and sees all those images of herself, that would have had MUCH more impact.
 
In my opinion, its obvious that the sequel movies weren't planned out ahead of time. You can see this by the way they answer one of the main questions of the trilogy: Who is Rey? In The Force Awakens, we meet Rey and we can see that she's powerful with the Force and the movie constantly asks who she is, where did she come from? The Last Jedi did not HAVE to answer this question, but they chose to: Rey is nobody, just a girl from no important lineage. They spent most of the movie having Rey try to figure out the answer to this question and not only does Kylo Ren answer this for her very clearly ("You're nobody") but they also reinforce this with the storyline of the slaves on Canto Bight - especially the scene at the end of the movie. You are supposed to whole-heartedly believe at the end of this movie that Rey is not a member of one of the powerful Star Wars families that we know and she really is just a girl from nowhere who happens to be strong in the Force. When we watch The Rise of Skywalker, we're shown very early on that this is false. Kylo Ren very quickly tells Rey that she's actually the granddaughter of Palpatine and we find out that oh yeah, he's alive too. So these movies very clearly contradict each other in this instance, a question which I believe is very central to the trilogy. I don't think it's opinion that they contradict each other, I think that's a fact. Now what IS opinion is whether this was intended or not. I personally don't think it was intended but others might. I would find it a very strange business decision to spend millions of dollars to make a 2.5 hour movie that is essentially a "fake out" and that you're intending to reverse in the final movie. What would be the point of that? Just to make the reveal even bigger?? There's zero evidence that Palpatine was still alive in the first 2 movies. They could have revealed Rey as a Palpatine in TLJ and still kept the secret of the emperor being alive. If they were worried that would spoil that big reveal, then why did they reveal it in the opening crawl of RoS? And why did they reveal Rey being a Palpatine so quickly and without much lead up? In my opinion, they made that all VERY underwhelming in the way that was revealed in RoS. If that had been revealed in the scene in TLJ where Rey is in the cave and sees all those images of herself, that would have had MUCH more impact.

I actually do generally agree that they didn't plan it out, at least not in detail (though I still maintain that we don't actually know to what extent), it's just that I don't necessarily find that to be a bad thing, and I think overall it still came together well. I do appreciate that your argument is more than "they didn't plan it out and that made it bad" or "I didn't like it therefore they must not have planned it out." Remember that the OT wasn't all that planned out either (regarding Leia's parentage - :love2: - ha ha). I can definitely understand that TLJ wasn't exactly subtle about much of anything and that it could have fleshed its positions out a bit more. I still enjoyed it, but I do understand the criticism in that regard.

You know what though - I'm calling it now that this is what they need to do:

STAR WARS: EPISODE VII, VIII, & IX - SPECIAL EDITIONS. They can add scenes, CG effects, musical numbers - it could only improve them as it did last time. ;) Seriously though, they could do true extended editions for the fans that help address certain things left to the novels, etc. I'm down.
 
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It could have been a good script. Or it could have been executed badly. Or it could be a piece of fanfiction. I don't really care. We have the 3 movies we have. I like 2 of them and some of the other. In the OT, I like 2.5 of them. In the prequels I like parts of all of them. In Clone Wars I like most but not all of them. I like both the Star Wars Stories. I like a good bit of Rebels. I'm not real enamored with Resistance. I didn't care for The Ewok and Droid show as a kid. Nor did anyone like the Star Wars Christmas Variety Show or whatever that vicious sell out was called. Enjoy The Mandalorian quite a bit. Love some of the Legend books, thought more than a bunch of them were and are terrible as well. Like some of the modern and old comics, hate others. Love Knights of the Old Republic. Don't like a lot of the other Star Wars games, though I haven't played any of the newer ones.

What's the point? There is a lot of Star Wars material. Tons and tons of it when you count all the legends books. And people are going to like some of it and not like others. Personally I enjoy some of the arguing. People make good points on both sides.

Regardless, the more content we get, the more the fanbase will splinter. Nothing will ever satisfy everyone. So these arguments will continue every time we get more content. Especially the mainline movies. But for the moment, my Star Wars itch is satisfactorily scratched. Maybe it could have been scratched better, maybe not. But give me my space western with a bit of fantasy and magic, done with amazing special effects, and I'll keep watching. Some of it I'll like, some of it I won't. And a lot of it we will argue our opinions over!
 
So these arguments will continue every time we get more content. Especially the mainline movies. But for the moment, my Star Wars itch is satisfactorily scratched. Maybe it could have been scratched better, maybe not. But give me my space western with a bit of fantasy and magic, done with amazing special effects, and I'll keep watching. Some of it I'll like, some of it I won't. And a lot of it we will argue our opinions over!

See for me that's pretty minor going forward.

They took a shot at a OT related cast/story trilogy and that was the one I cared about. C- overall, still some great entertainment throughout.

Going forward, hoping for some good stories, but the interest/care level just isn't there.

Great example is Mando. Really liking it, but they could cancel it and I wouldn't really care at all. Maybe a "that's to bad, it was really good", but oh well.

So I guess I'm arguing there will be no arguing, at least from me. :laughing:
 
They can add scenes, CG effects, musical numbers - it could only improve them as it did last time. ;)

To quote myself, I actually 100% believe my above statement and was not being sarcastic. It's an unusual opinion to be sure,. but the Special Editions (or the forms in which the films exist today) are improvements and I would be happy with any of the films getting the same treatment.
 
To quote myself, I actually 100% believe my above statement and was not being sarcastic. It's an unusual opinion to be sure,. but the Special Editions (or the forms in which the films exist today) are improvements and I would be happy with any of the films getting the same treatment.
Definitely thought you were being sarcastic! Thanks for clarifying!
 
To quote myself, I actually 100% believe my above statement and was not being sarcastic. It's an unusual opinion to be sure,. but the Special Editions (or the forms in which the films exist today) are improvements and I would be happy with any of the films getting the same treatment.

465248

For me anyway.
 
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