Talking myself out of DVC...help

[Raven01]

I have stayed in values, moderates, and deluxes. I’m not married to a hotel style.

But I’ve watched rates CLIMB. A value - All Star Sports - in a preferred room in June will be over $200 a night with taxes. Ten nights would be $2,000+. I’d much rather buy into DVC (once I planned to go every year) and stay deluxe than pay that for a value!

 

[MICKIMINI]

Buying into DVC doesn't mean you can't sell down the road and make a profit (you have to watch/time the market and not need to sell) if you no longer want to own. I would also be hesitant to promise something that future kids may not even care about. Our DVC's are in our "asset" category with our house and the market does go up and down, however we can't imagine not owning either because we are afraid of the future. Our assets are ours 100% and we can afford taxes etc on both. We are cautious, but as we get older we really appreciate how life is fragile and we can not take it with us., so why not have fun while you are healthy and active enough to do so? We are leaving our DVC's to our son and his family (we'll all be at OKW next week), however he and we are not so unrealistic to think we may not need to sell in our old age - unanticipated things do unfortunately happen.

I suggest buying enough points, plus a buffer for an every other year stay and then get your various deals on the odd years AND do buy where you want to stay. By studying the market and ROFR you can get a solid feel on what a fair offer is with a buffer to negotiate. I just reverse my approach and put myself in the sellers shoes - it has never not worked and additionally, I have been thanked when I make my offer as I always spell out my terms and justification for the price I offer. Paying cash is a plus to both seller and buyer.

You will make your hubby and kids happy and I suspect yourself as well, as you likely wouldn't appeal to all of us if there wasn't a bit of pixie dust in your heart. It might be worth a bit more consideration IMHO. Best of luck either way!

 

[Soap_1984]

DVC rates have also skyrocketed, so be careful comparing with direct rates (dvc or rack rates). The best comparison for saving money is between resale dvc and renting points.

 

[paults]

If I didn't already own I would only do resale. Direct is just ridiculous and even it would need to be cheap

 

[bumbershoot]

Don't buy for grandkids that don't even exist yet. Buy for what you need/want now. They may all want to go to Universal instead

Exactly.

I do think Disney is trying to see how far they can push members and also what they can get members to pay for under the guise of member fees.

They have to prove the increases. It’s not for profit.

Our kids are begging us to do it and say they’ll definitely take it over

You’ll need to buy as many contracts as you have kids if that's going to happen easily. You can’t reky on them staying close enough once they have their own lives to coordinate. You definitely can’t rely on future spouses to get along well enough. Or for schedules to mesh. Etc. you’ll want each kid to have a contract.

So you could buy one and see how you guys like it. Add on more later as needed. And see how the grandkid thing goes. I’m one of 5 and the only one who has had a kid. And I wanted 3 but got 1. Life...is fickle sometimes.

 

[kboo]

Put in your low bid and ask seller to pay closing as well. See where it goes. Maybe they say No with no counter, that will ease your current feelings

Yes. I have felt that there's no harm in making that offer - the worst they can say is NO (with no counter), and you'll know what that seller's floor is. (I also do take a very zen approach to all of this - as with other real estate purchases - if it's a good match, the offer will get accepted and it will all be smooth sailing).

Or, just buy a contract for 120 points and let that be his mid-life crisis splurge

This might not be a bad idea. We started small, too, so that we wouldn't have too much sunk/committed cost if it turned out we didn't like to go to WDW once a year. Well, our "once a year in a studio or 1br once in a while" turned out to be "every 8 months or less" which in turn led to buying more points. You could always start with a smaller contract and go every other year, or for a shorter period of time, and see how you like it. It's less $ up front, and then you can decide later, after a few trips under your belt, whether you want to continue or buy more points.

And as others have said - think about your travel preferences. How often do you want to go to WDW? And do you really prefer deluxe, or is moderate or value good enough? Or what about an offsite stay? I can't remember - how old are your kids again? We realized we really wanted to stay in deluxe resorts on site because we had small kids and liked not having to spend so much time traveling. Our DD1's first trip to WDW was staying in a timeshare near Sea World and driving to WDW every day. We liked the space of a condo but we didn't go to Sea World once on that trip, barely made it to the condo's pool, and spent far too much time driving back and forth. (But this is how my family did WDW when I was growing up - it was definitely cheaper, but a bit of a hassle). Then we stayed in some deluxe hotel rooms as well as rented points a few times so we got a sense of what the DVC units were like, and whether we liked them enough. (We did) If you haven't rented points before, you might want to try that and see how you like staying in the villas. DVC isn't going anywhere, the resale market isn't going anywhere, despite the doom and gloom on these boards. A few months or even years of poking around and research isn't going to make you miss out on the "perfect" contract, but you might find that you like or don't like particular aspects of a DVC stay that may affect your decision.

Also - and this brings up again my question of how old your kids are - they're still young, right? We were easily able to hunt for the best deals, and take trips on short notice, when our kid(s) weren't in real school. My oldest is now in 3rd grade in a pretty rigorous school, and they don't take too kindly to pulling your kid from school for a week because you found a great 30% off deal on a hotel. And I know it's just going to get worse. So now we are limited to school vacation times. The summers aren't bad, but if you want to take a trip during President's week, Easter, Thanksgiving or Christmas, there are no hotel deals to be found. So that played a role in the timing, as well. (Although you can still rent points, you just need to find someone renting with the home resort you want, *and* try to reserve as close to 11 months as you can).

 

[lmhall2000]

Yes. I have felt that there's no harm in making that offer - the worst they can say is NO (with no counter), and you'll know what that seller's floor is. (I also do take a very zen approach to all of this - as with other real estate purchases - if it's a good match, the offer will get accepted and it will all be smooth sailing).




This might not be a bad idea. We started small, too, so that we wouldn't have too much sunk/committed cost if it turned out we didn't like to go to WDW once a year. Well, our "once a year in a studio or 1br once in a while" turned out to be "every 8 months or less" which in turn led to buying more points. You could always start with a smaller contract and go every other year, or for a shorter period of time, and see how you like it. It's less $ up front, and then you can decide later, after a few trips under your belt, whether you want to continue or buy more points.

And as others have said - think about your travel preferences. How often do you want to go to WDW? And do you really prefer deluxe, or is moderate or value good enough? Or what about an offsite stay? I can't remember - how old are your kids again? We realized we really wanted to stay in deluxe resorts on site because we had small kids and liked not having to spend so much time traveling. Our DD1's first trip to WDW was staying in a timeshare near Sea World and driving to WDW every day. We liked the space of a condo but we didn't go to Sea World once on that trip, barely made it to the condo's pool, and spent far too much time driving back and forth. (But this is how my family did WDW when I was growing up - it was definitely cheaper, but a bit of a hassle). Then we stayed in some deluxe hotel rooms as well as rented points a few times so we got a sense of what the DVC units were like, and whether we liked them enough. (We did) If you haven't rented points before, you might want to try that and see how you like staying in the villas. DVC isn't going anywhere, the resale market isn't going anywhere, despite the doom and gloom on these boards. A few months or even years of poking around and research isn't going to make you miss out on the "perfect" contract, but you might find that you like or don't like particular aspects of a DVC stay that may affect your decision.

Also - and this brings up again my question of how old your kids are - they're still young, right? We were easily able to hunt for the best deals, and take trips on short notice, when our kid(s) weren't in real school. My oldest is now in 3rd grade in a pretty rigorous school, and they don't take too kindly to pulling your kid from school for a week because you found a great 30% off deal on a hotel. And I know it's just going to get worse. So now we are limited to school vacation times. The summers aren't bad, but if you want to take a trip during President's week, Easter, Thanksgiving or Christmas, there are no hotel deals to be found. So that played a role in the timing, as well. (Although you can still rent points, you just need to find someone renting with the home resort you want, *and* try to reserve as close to 11 months as you can).

Thank you!!!
kids are all grown, youngest two are junior/senior in college. We homeschooled throughout, that’s why September is our preferred month to travel..we scored best deals for this month and weather is great In most places..we considered DVC way back- but we loved Disney cruising and heard points weren’t good for that- we’ve sailed most of the itineraries we want- so, DVC is looking better. But, we like traveling with little notice but rarely ever in high season. So much to consider! I like your ideas on starting small and seeing if we need more...thanks!!!

 

[eMoneyBug]

I think traveling with little notice and any timeshare system is a tough match UNLESS, you are in a forced week system where your options become use it or rent it out or gift it to friends/family or lose it.

 

[kboo]

Thank you!!!
kids are all grown, youngest two are junior/senior in college. We homeschooled throughout, that’s why September is our preferred month to travel..we scored best deals for this month and weather is great In most places..we considered DVC way back- but we loved Disney cruising and heard points weren’t good for that- we’ve sailed most of the itineraries we want- so, DVC is looking better. But, we like traveling with little notice but rarely ever in high season. So much to consider! I like your ideas on starting small and seeing if we need more...thanks!!! ❤❤

September can be tough-ish because of the combination of low points costs and F&W. It's especially tough on weekends and at BWV, because every 2br is a lock off, so when studios are gone, 2br are gone. (It pretty much was a deal killer for us).

If you can plan >7 months in advance, then DVC can still be good for you, but if you're really thinking that you'll continue to travel last-minute, it might not work for you (or you should buy OKW or SSR resale, because a point is a point at 7mo). After my sister and I left home, my mom tended to plan vacations (not just WDW vacations) looong in advance because it was otherwise too hard to juggle all of our schedules. BTW - I've done a 6-week-in-advance trip in September once, and although there was room at SSR and we had DVC points, we decided to use our Marriott points at the Swan instead, because we were specifically going for F&W and TS Land.

 

[rg35]

If expecting to sell it in 20 years is the thing that makes you feel better about buying, you should not be buying. You need to go into DVC believing that your upfront payment is a sunk cost that you'll never get back.

None of us can predict what the world economy will look like in 20 years, or how things like climate change will impact vacation regions like Florida. DVC could be worthless in 20 years, or it may not be. When I bought DVC in 2012, I viewed that money as essentially gone.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

If expecting to sell it in 20 years is the thing that makes you feel better about buying, you should not be buying. You need to go into DVC believing that your upfront payment is a sunk cost that you'll never get back.

None of us can predict what the world economy will look like in 20 years, or how things like climate change will impact vacation regions like Florida. DVC could be worthless in 20 years, or it may not be. When I bought DVC in 2012, I viewed that money as essentially gone.

I think you can do both. Run your calculations based on what you reasonably expect to sell DVC for in 20 years and see if the numbers make sense for what you are trying to achieve.

Then run the numbers again and assume you can't sell in 20 years, and your stuck paying the maintenance fees for the rest of the contract.

As long as the second scenario isn't going to create a major financial burden for you, I'd make the decision based on the first scenario's numbers. The second scenario isn't likely to happen, so if you base the decision on it, you will likely make the wrong decision. However, I wouldn't discount it either because you should be prepared for what the worst case scenario would look like. No point in ruining your financial future for the potential of a small monetary gain on your vacations.

 

[rg35]

I think you can do both. Run your calculations based on what you reasonably expect to sell DVC for in 20 years and see if the numbers make sense for what you are trying to achieve.

Then run the numbers again and assume you can't sell in 20 years, and your stuck paying the maintenance fees for the rest of the contract.

As long as the second scenario isn't going to create a major financial burden for you, I'd make the decision based on the first scenario's numbers. The second scenario isn't likely to happen, so if you base the decision on it, you will likely make the wrong decision. However, I wouldn't discount it either because you should be prepared for what the worst case scenario would look like. No point in ruining your financial future for the potential of a small monetary gain on your vacations.

I know it's your "thing" to post contrarian points of view for the sake of it, but the OP already said that being able to sell in 20 years would alleviate her jitters. Since that's not guaranteed, nor is the return, then she should not purchase.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

I know it's your "thing" to post contrarian points of view for the sake of it, but the OP already said that being able to sell in 20 years would alleviate her jitters. Since that's not guaranteed, nor is the return, then she should not purchase.

Here's my contrarian take......

Then run the numbers again and assume you can't sell in 20 years, and your stuck paying the maintenance fees for the rest of the contract.

As long as the second scenario isn't going to create a major financial burden for you, I'd make the decision based on the first scenario's numbers. The second scenario isn't likely to happen, so if you base the decision on it, you will likely make the wrong decision. However, I wouldn't discount it either because you should be prepared for what the worst case scenario would look like. No point in ruining your financial future for the potential of a small monetary gain on your vacations.

 

[TigerInGa]

Tonight I saw a contract that appealed to me, we are saving cash and should have enough by December. I thought “why not put in a low bid offer just to see if it gets accepted”- I’ve been following this contact for a month and it’s reduced twice.
Maybe it’ll be so low it gets rejected by sellers, passed by sellers, the. Taken up..so, then I started crunching numbers. NO!!! Why??

we mostly will use the 2 BR- not studios. Seems studios are a great way to use your points and push your value up..but they won’t work for us.

looking at around 200 points- keeping contract around 20years- we would spend 26k on contract and 47k on maintenance fees (more because I didn’t account for increases)..so, really looking at 75k-100k just on lodging (and maybe parking)...I’ve always scored incredible deals...just returned from our first trip to Hawaii- cost less than $900 for 5 nights staying at Aulani and Royal Hawaiian...got a 10 night Med on Magic cruise for 7 people for under 4k...we always travel September or very off season to score these...I could plan 10 great trips the next 20 years including all expenses for that amount of money...I’m getting really cold feet seeing that reality. If we do sell it in 20 years-that helps allay my jitters... then I think we should buy BLT or Aulani just to cut down that long term maintenance fee (subsidized Aulani) because 2 BR availability seems pretty open at 7 months.
Any other tips on not over-spending?? Aaa agh! I figured we need 200-220 points...was looking at CC- but higher maintenance fees seems silly when availability is open on those across the board.

We just bought this past week. Your logic and mine seem similar, so here is what finally convinced me to buy.

1. My daughter is young now. She won't be forever. I did not want to stall on the decision any longer, as I can't put that time back in the hourglass. She loves Disney. We have Six Flags passes. When we go there, she has fun, but really could care less whether or not we go. When we drive by Six Flags, she doesn't even look up any more. When she goes to Disney, she can't stop smiling. Everywhere, not just the parks. The pools, the restaruants, they are all there to make her smile. While I know that's an emotional justification, that gave me a sense or urgency to get off the fence.

2. We bought resale. I've spent months watching historical trends. I've convinced now (assuming the bottom doesn't fall out of the economy), that if we get "burnt out" on going after a few years, we can sell it or rent the points, and not take a beating.

3. We can afford it today. We don't know what tomorrow will bring, but we can today. If life changes, we can sell it or rent out our points.

Good luck!

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

I know it's your "thing" to post contrarian points of view for the sake of it, but the OP already said that being able to sell in 20 years would alleviate her jitters. Since that's not guaranteed, nor is the return, then she should not purchase.

Good grief

 

[lmhall2000]

Yeah, we’ve all forgotten the intrinsic child in my dh’s mind...he texted me ..”make the bid” and “make it a lot of points” He has no clue of my doubts...I put him off with “watching the volume of new resell entries”
We are so rigidly frugal- maybe we all need a little Pippy Longstocking logic when it comes to money v. ‘Value’

 

[eMoneyBug]

I think that was GREEN LIGHT go go go. Check out the DVC Search Engine, I just learned of it not too long ago, very cool!

 

[bwvBound]

Yeah, we’ve all forgotten the intrinsic child in my dh’s mind...he texted me ..”make the bid” and “make it a lot of points” He has no clue of my doubts...I put him off with “watching the volume of new resell entries”
We are so rigidly frugal- maybe we all need a little Pippy Longstocking logic when it comes to money v. ‘Value’

Even if you choose to try DVC you'll still find those other deals. You will still enjoy the "thrill of the hunt." The 'hunt' will be for new destinations w/in the DVC system and new "scores!" for the special unit types or hard-to-grab dates. You'll thrill to booking those first reservations at each new-to-you property. Trust me, it will be a thrill.

We were bargain-hunter cruisers before timeshare. We had a series of fantastic cruises and adventures booked through Egghead Auctions, back in the day, some 20 years ago. $600 total for an outside cabin, 12n, Panama Canal transition leaving from our home port (San Diego) next week? Yes, please! Loved every minute.

Buying our first timeshare (not DVC) put a temporary dent in our cruise travel. Our funds were tied up in the new purchase and it didn't seem "right" to go elsewhere given the new timeshare toy. And something very sad happened: Egghead Auctions closed its operations. Having lost our favorite bargain travel source, we directed our travel energies to exploring every facet of our timeshare: multiple locations within the network, exchanges via RCI/II, etc. I became an expert on the system ... and then one timeshare led to another and another. Our case of Add-on-itis branched out to different brands and styles of timeshare. All have been good in their own way and one changed my life.

We've learned to balance timeshare + cruising + other travel options. We remain opportunistic travelers ... with a curious tendency to show up at Disney. All good.

We took 6 years from "first tour" to "first purchase" with DVC. The months prior to our first purchase were emotional, difficult, and strewn with obstacles/objections. Eventually we took a leap and purchased 150 points knowing that we wanted 200 points. That first contract allowed us to use 200 points (7n, 1BR, BWV, January) by banking/borrowing until every objection was satisfied and increasing our DVC points was a clear and obvious choice. All good. No real regrets.

Continued best wishes on your research and deliberations, friend.

 

[agirlcallededdy]

FWIW, we closed last month on a double points resale SSR 220 pt contract for our family of 5. We had toured RIV in July and decided no given price and resale restrictions. Price was important, MF were important, but we are flexible on travel dates and want a 2 bedroom... Went for more points at a cheaper cost. The kicker for us was pricing a 7 day trip to Aulani on rented points. Was staring down $7k with nothing but a single trip to show for it. For $20K, we get 35 years of points and if we get tired of DVC, we can sell or rent and cover our annual MFs. That was the thought pattern that convinced DH. We did not finance. We are so excited now about SSR refurb and our first trip to Aulani in 2020. It isn't an investment, and there is an emotional aspect.. but I feel that we balanced the emotional with the practical and didn't let the Pixie dust cloud our thinking....

 

[jerseyduke]

Tonight I saw a contract that appealed to me, we are saving cash and should have enough by December. I thought “why not put in a low bid offer just to see if it gets accepted”- I’ve been following this contact for a month and it’s reduced twice.
Maybe it’ll be so low it gets rejected by sellers, passed by sellers, the. Taken up..so, then I started crunching numbers. NO!!! Why??

we mostly will use the 2 BR- not studios. Seems studios are a great way to use your points and push your value up..but they won’t work for us.

looking at around 200 points- keeping contract around 20years- we would spend 26k on contract and 47k on maintenance fees (more because I didn’t account for increases)..so, really looking at 75k-100k just on lodging (and maybe parking)...I’ve always scored incredible deals...just returned from our first trip to Hawaii- cost less than $900 for 5 nights staying at Aulani and Royal Hawaiian...got a 10 night Med on Magic cruise for 7 people for under 4k...we always travel September or very off season to score these...I could plan 10 great trips the next 20 years including all expenses for that amount of money...I’m getting really cold feet seeing that reality. If we do sell it in 20 years-that helps allay my jitters... then I think we should buy BLT or Aulani just to cut down that long term maintenance fee (subsidized Aulani) because 2 BR availability seems pretty open at 7 months.
Any other tips on not over-spending?? Aaa agh! I figured we need 200-220 points...was looking at CC- but higher maintenance fees seems silly when availability is open on those across the board.

I'm not a bargain hunter so I can not speak to how you go about things, but I will say this - What tipped the scales for me - It's an easy exit, particularly if you buy resale.

If you pull the trigger, and you find out its not for you, the downside is minimal, as you will have paid the MF for a year, and can resell it probably for very close to the price you paid for it, so your loss will be about 1 year MF, plus sales commissions. For that you got a vacation. All in all, you loose a little, but not much, and that is pretty much worse case scenario.