The Psychology of the DLR Annual Pass Holder

[Disneyland_Mama]

I look at it this way. Getting to go to DLR so often is our reward for putting up with the traffic, smog, housing prices and all the other craziness that comes with living down here.

Ha! Exactly!

Here I am, a cheap SoCal AP holder who lives 15 minutes from Main Street, sitting on the fence, because I am neither a "them" or an "us".

I hate the new AP system. Premium, Deluxe, SoCal, SoCal Select! Bleh! I've been an AP holder for over 15 years, back when there were only 2 choices, Premium and Not Premium. Since then everyone and their brother has gotten a flippin' AP. Back then you felt special 'cause you were an AP holder, and now the place is so packed that us cheap SoCal holder can only go for a few hours. You can bet I no longer purchase Premium AP's, it's just not worth it. We have SoCal AP's AND I'm paying them on payments. SO there!

True, I pay 30 something bucks a month to visit my beloved park, but I believe we spend the same amount, if not more than your average week long tourist. We buy lots of merchanise, (yes $60 sweatshirts, included) and we eat crappy meals in the park.

BUT, I will say this - if DLR did away with AP's they'd suffer a huge revenue loss and they know this. They cater to locals because we are their bread and butter. We are the ones who keep the park busy all year long, well except when it rains. So Cal'ers, you know what I'm talking about!

The Mouse gets every one of my free dollars. We visit at least 3 times a month, eat at least 1 meal during those visits and purchase some kind of park merchandise. Heck, we even bought into DVC. And I'll bet I'm a part of a large percentage of AP holders in the same boat.

I remember the day we renewed our AP's and the CM told us AP holders purchase the majority of Disneyland merchandise.

Dudes, can't we all just get along? I don't mind sharing my park with you tourists.

 

[Corpsebride]

To be honest, yes, this is what upsets me about AP holders. Which we once were ourselves, only we got 3 uses out of them that year. We are not locals. So when we go we spend a good chunk of change. We do buy a lot of suvies because we aren't coming back next week. We can't just drop by for a few hours when we want. The crowds from locals just means less rides for us, longer wait times, and having to deal with crowded walk ways. Of people who will no doubt be back next week. It stinks when we are paying that kind of money, and it is our vacation, not a day trip.

I'm kinda of disappointed that DL has turned in to a day trip place for people. Can't say I blame the locals though. But to me it's like it's turning in to Great America or Marine World in Northern California. Those to me are day trips, not really a place where people go on vacation. DL is a resort, a special place that people go on vacation for. I remember the crowds of the 80's which I'm guessing was BEFORE AP's. Walking on the rides, and the place being "dead" had a whole different meaning then what people talk about now.

Anyway I hope they are able to do something, as I don't view it as fair to those families who are spending a few thousand (if not more) to come for vacation there. Like I said I can't really blame locals for wanting to go often (who wouldn't), but it does stink for tourists.

we are now PAP holders. we are having a disney fairytale wedding to the tune of 20+k, and we go about once a week. we spend atleast 100- a trip. we go for a few hours or we go for many hours. It is still as special to us as it was when we were little. Dl doesnt see the difference between me and dfi who live 35 miles away, and you and your family who live hundreds/ thousands of miles away. They see dollar signs. Im sorry but I dont view it as fair that :
Vegas is filled with other tourist and all the black jack tables are full when I want to play, or that I have to stand in line for the bathroom when I have had too many tinkerbell twists, or that my local beaches are filled with littering tourists who dump their garbage in my ocean(not really mine) and go back home. Im sorry but DL is just as much as my park as it is yours. I think this is a lame inflamitory thead.Ever since I was a kid, DL has been busy. there are always lines. It doesnt magically get empty when "tourist season" is over and we all throw a huge "locals" party, "oh thank god those tourists are gone!!"
To the contrary. it is always busy. No, maybe not at 845 pm in Feb when it is close to closing time and it is 40 degrees outside, but geez really? you all would be there too if you lived closer.
I dont mean to sound mean, but it is a business not a private club, everyone is welcome to stand in line for 4 hours to get on Nemo, stand in line for the potty, stand in line for the train, and the tram to get home.
Life isnt fair but if you get to have the luxury of going to DL every week or once a year, life is good.

 

[LavenderPeach]

It doesnt magically get empty when "tourist season" is over and we all throw a huge "locals" party, "oh thank god those tourists are gone!!"

What? No party this year?

 

[Albort]

Since APs are currently unblocked, Park attendance has almost doubled...

 

[pixiewings71]

What? No party this year?

Oh man, I was so hoping for a party this year!!!

 

[Stacerita]

I'm kinda of disappointed that DL has turned in to a day trip place for people. .

Isn't that what Walt intended it to be?

DL is a resort, a special place that people go on vacation for.

DL is now considered a resort, but for most of its history it was not.

 

[HydroGuy]

Apologies for reviving a dead thread. For posterity I wanted to add some links here to some recent "trip report" type threads from DLR visitors who went in late August after the SoCal AP holder blockouts lifted in mid-August. As Albort noted there was a surge in crowds.

I am not trying to restart the debate from earlier in this thread but to have these links here so they can be more easily found by anyone in the future wanting know what actually happened from people who were there.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2259657 - this one is especially good because the poster is a DIS regular and a regular August visitor for many years and can offer good historical perspective for recent years

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2262162

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2264882

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2267850

 

[Leofoenget]

Can I ask a question: Is it the lowest level on So Cal Ap's that cause so much "trouble" (and I put trouble in quotes because I don't mean they are causing actual trouble.) I have been after the cheapest AP's were blocked out, but not the next level. I didn't notice any highter crowd level with the second tier open as a regular day.

 

[fairykin]

Good point, Stacerita

I don't understand the nature to break things down to us and them.. why not return to the intention of what Walt dreamed the park would be. And be happy for that.

It seems like Star Belly sneetches all over again

 

[handyl03]

I was at Disneyland/ Calif. Adventure on August 31st - an unblocked day for AP holders like me - there were no crowds, I was expecting them but it was pretty empty. The longest lines that we waited in were 15 minutes for Grizzly River Rapids and 10 minutes for Indiana Jones. It was my sister's birthday - we spent almost $200 at lunch for our little group at Blue Bayou, bought stuffed animals for the kids, drinks, ice cream, and treats from the bakery on the way out! We may not pay much for our annual passes but Disney gets plenty of money out of us in the end - and we enjoy every single minute of time and every dollar that we spend there. Disneyland is our "happy place" and living just 30 minutes away we go to our "happy place" as often as we can - after half days of school, after church on Sunday's, we stay at the resort hotels for our kids birthday weekends, for our birthdays and anniversaries too! My kids are getting out of school at noon today and that's right, we're going to Disneyland! It's great to be an AP! If you loved Disney and lived here you'd do the same!

 

[50sjayne]

Good point, Stacerita

I don't understand the nature to break things down to us and them.. why not return to the intention of what Walt dreamed the park would be. And be happy for that.

It seems like Star Belly sneetches all over again

Honestly to the rest of us who are fans but can't neccesarily afford the cost of the trip to Disneyland more than once a year--you guys with the passes (any kind of pass) most definitely have stars on thars...

 

[disney-inspired]

What? No party this year?

Oh man, I was so hoping for a party this year!!!

I better go return these streamers and noisemakers then, huh?

 

[TinkandPooh]

That is an interesting analysis. I was surprised though, since I find that we avoid new attractions based on the fact that we can go once the hoopla has died down. We don't feel the need to spend a lot of time in line (and in fact won't ever wait in a line that is more than 30 minutes)

I appreciate your comments about not having a negative feeling about passholders. I find the ultra negative feelings about AP holders to be mystifying. I wish someone would explain to me the disdain that so many feel towards AP's. I have even heard CM's say how much they hate us. They say we only ever complain. I think I am the most positive about Disneyland and have turned many people's opinion around about it.

Anywho, just my two cents. Can't wait to be at the happiest place in just a few days

I have to agree with the first part of what dlander said......we too are AP holders and do hold the Southern Ca select passes mostly because we can go more often if we choose and when we do we never wait in long lines as we feel that we can just see something new later. We will sometimes use the opening of something new to actually go and see the rest of the park as everyone else seems to flock towards the new attraction leaving the rest of the park very light.......this is a trend for our family that we take advantage of. I cac say one thing about our family though is when we have our APs and can go often we do however we do more staying onsite and longer trips with our passes than what other AP holders may do as we love to take advantage of AP rates at the DL resort hotels, so it is not always true that Southern Ca AP holders just pop in for short trips and don't spend as much money......at least when it comes to our family.
Just thought I would share another family's perspective on how they use and take advantage of their APs.

By the way to the OP.....cool thread great info and neat to see all the responses to this topic....very interesting

 

[HawkeyeGal]

I'll own up to being the type of AP that people probably don't like, especially the folks at Disney. A friend laughs that we treat it like the zoo - we go after school, take snacks, ride a few rides and I feel accomplished when we leave without spending a cent. We are SoCal Select holders and that was still a chunk of change for 4 of us. I feel that if we are close we should use it, especially with two kids under 7.

I'd love to be able to buy dinner and goodies every time we go - we just can't afford it. On my daughter's birthday we went all out - lunch, BBBotique, goodies, etc. And we will do the same on my son's in a few weeks (minus the BBB, of course.) I'm guessing we will spend more time at the Jedi store. LOL!

I think it's a great opportunity for those of us who live close. I'm 20 minutes away and I will make the most of our APs until they stop selling them.

 

[Judy from Boise]

that does seem to be the point of local APs.....no one should be surprised thats the way they are used. . It is soley on Disney to figure out their program so AP holder's get their value, and the tourist experience is not impacted. I sure hope they put their best minds to it so we all can be happy.

 

[rentayenta]

We upgraded to APs because we figured that we would go at least one more time during the year; since, we had moved within 8 hours from the midwest. We bought it for the discounts on hotel rooms. Sept. will be our 3rd trip on the APs. Obviously, we are not flooding the parks, and I think that there are more like us, too. My personal opinion is that part of the numbers problem is not just the number of people. It is also the number of projects that DLR has chosen to undertake at one time. Look at the decrease in parking spaces due to projects. They should have built a second parking garage before taking a parking lot away for Carsland (not to mention the poor name of this new land). Look at all the walls in DCA during the "busy" season. I know that Walt never wanted DLR to be finished, but I don't think that he wanted the entire park rebuilt at once with guests there as well. I know that the number of APs and AP attendees have gone up, but how much of this mess is created by a HUGE lack of planning. Bumbershoot, they forgot to consult us again!!!
Just my 2 cents worth.

I agree with all of this!



We have Deluxe APs and live in Utah. Clearly we don't go everyday or every month. We upgraded to APs because it just made sense, especially with our DVC discount. We just went two weeks ago and have plans to return next June and October.

 

[HydroGuy]

We upgraded to APs because we figured that we would go at least one more time during the year; since, we had moved within 8 hours from the midwest. We bought it for the discounts on hotel rooms. Sept. will be our 3rd trip on the APs. Obviously, we are not flooding the parks, and I think that there are more like us, too. My personal opinion is that part of the numbers problem is not just the number of people. It is also the number of projects that DLR has chosen to undertake at one time. Look at the decrease in parking spaces due to projects. They should have built a second parking garage before taking a parking lot away for Carsland (not to mention the poor name of this new land). Look at all the walls in DCA during the "busy" season. I know that Walt never wanted DLR to be finished, but I don't think that he wanted the entire park rebuilt at once with guests there as well. I know that the number of APs and AP attendees have gone up, but how much of this mess is created by a HUGE lack of planning. Bumbershoot, they forgot to consult us again!!!
Just my 2 cents worth.

I agree with all of this!



We have Deluxe APs and live in Utah. Clearly we don't go everyday or every month. We upgraded to APs because it just made sense, especially with our DVC discount. We just went two weeks ago and have plans to return next June and October.

Yes but...

I have no problem with how you or anyone in this thread uses their APs. It is all within the rules Disney has created. It is my understanding that over 90% of the now 850,000 APs (yes 850,000 - that is not a typo) are of the SoCal variety. Because Disney allows these cheap APs it has overloaded the infrastructure. It has very little to do with the current refurbs. In fact, the refurbs are only going to make crowds worse because DCA will become (hopefully) a destination in its own right rather than DL's tag along kid brother.

That is not a bad thing IMO. It will bring more Disney attention to DLR's potential as a money maker, result in an awesome improved park at DCA, and pave the way for further improvements including that elusive third park nearby.

For more info on this see Al Lutz's most recent update below.

http://miceage.micechat.com/allutz/al101309a.htm

The numbers on who the other visitors are tell the story. This past weekend for instance, Sunday had a projected attendance of 62,000, of which over 35,000 were Annual Passholders. That type of split between passholders and more traditional tourists and day trippers is fairly common now, but when Disney was planning the new resort expansion in the 1990’s that type of attendance mix was unthinkable. Back then, Disney was building the second park and expanding the resort amenities to attract big spending tourists on multi-day visits, and only Downtown Disney was considered to be a more casual offering for locals spending just a few hours on property.

The problem is that ever expanding base of Annual Passholders, who are now at the 850,000 mark and still growing, have thrown a monkey wrench into the resort infrastructure that was designed and built 10 years ago for a different visitor demographic. For instance, during the period of 1998-2000, Disney expanded their parking and intra-property transportation based on mid 1990’s research when Annual Passholders numbered fewer than 100,000 and there were no plans to grow that population much beyond that.

The Mickey & Friends parking structure, the largest in North America, was built to handle 10,000 cars that were then assumed to have an average of nearly 4 passengers per vehicle. But in 2009 the passengers per vehicle average slumps to less than 2 passengers per vehicle when tens of thousands of Annual Passholders descend on the resort, often driving solo or with just one other person, with plans to meet up with friends once they get in the park.

And instead of arriving in the morning, being directed to a specific section and row in the parking lot and then leaving the car there for most of the day, as nearly all Disneyland visitors did from the 1950’s to the 1990’s, Annual Passholders now are driving in alone or with a friend just to spend two or three hours in the park before they head home.

 

[brergnat]

I just want to know, what are "crowds" such an issue? DL doesn't ever allow the parks to go over capacity, but there IS a capacity. What difference should it make WHO is in there? I mean, DLR chose to offer those two low level So. Cal AP's. They didn't have to. Back when I first got my AP, there were only 3 options. That ultra cheap So Cal Select AP and the "monthly payment plan" is really something Disney offered out of desperation to tap another market of locals...the ones who couldn't afford even the regular So Cal Select pass.

But, prior to that, and even now, So. Cal residents can get super cheap hopper tickets through places like Costco. So, really, it's not like there is a huge money loss.

The truth is, DLR for MANY years was, in reality, primarily attended by LOCALS. It's just the way it was. The DISNEY company is the one who chose to add another park, hotels, and Downtown Disney to make it a "destination", and now that it's working, they're upset about the 850,000 AP holders who have been making up a large bulk of their attendance for the past 30+ years??? Whatever. I honestly don't think Al Lutz knows what he's talking about. If Disney didn't "like" their AP program, they'd change it like that! They are allowed to do that...

Just for comparison, they JUST (like yesterday) announced that they will offer a similar "select" pass for ORLANDO locals to WDW...obviously, they feel the AP program is working WELL at DLR, and they are looking to duplicate that over in Florida.

A crowded park is what the Disney company WANTS. Why would they do anything to ruin that?

And, coincidentally, I've been a Deluxe AP holder for about 8 years now. I live 15 min away from DLR, and have two kids under 6. We go a LOT. Like, at least once a week, sometimes more. And, I DO spend a lot of money there. I buy food there every time. I buy my kids toys sometimes. We stay on property lots too...always in Concierge Level. We drop $$$$ at DLR, that's for sure! We are not the only ones...

 

[rentayenta]

Did you know Disney allows So Cal AP holders to make monthly payments, some as low as $6 a month?

 

[Leofoenget]

The only way to avoid the crowds is to pay attention to the crowd patterns and do the opposite. For about 2 years now, I have made my own crowd tracker book. I write down crowd levels for the day based on what I read on the various message boards. It is pretty easy to avoid the crowds but you have to really pay attention to what is going on, and it can get pretty tricky. The problem is, to avoid the crowds sometimes you have to miss the one thing that is bringing IN the crowds in the first place ie Halloween fireworks, finding Nemo whatever. I guess at that point you have to decide what is more important to you, "having the park to yourself" or dealing with some crowds to enjoy something different. Sometimes I have to bite the bullet and just focus on one thing. I decide to put up with nasty crowds levels to see something I feel is worth seeing. Other times I want to relax. Oh I have a Deluxe pass and I live 8 hours away so for me low crowd levels are important.