This is just so sad,,and makes me ask WHY would someone do this?? I don't call it 'playing'??

[LSUmiss]

I guess it's going to come down to who sits on the jury. Not one person on this thread who has ever been on a cruiseship similar to that one finds it reasonable that he wouldn't have known the window was open.

I said I have never been on one (and never will-another topic lol) so I agree it definitely depends on who is on the jury.

 

[VandVsmama]

I read the other day that he's filed a lawsuit against the cruise line company about the allegedly deficient windows, claiming that he shouldn't be at fault for this because the cruise line allowed the windows to be opened.

I also read that he or his lawyer(s) are also claiming that he shouldn't be considered at fault because he's color blind and couldn't tell that there was an open window there. Good gravy, seriously?

This is a horrible tragedy and I feel bad for him and for the child's parents. Everyone must be devastated by this.

But holy cow, that man appeared to have zero common sense. Maybe he should go get his head examined. Seriously. Like for dementia or something.

 

[JaxDad]

I guess it's going to come down to who sits on the jury. Not one person on this thread who has ever been on a cruiseship similar to that one finds it reasonable that he wouldn't have known the window was open.

I wonder if the prosecution team would be allowed to take the jury members aboard a ship to experience it themselves. I’m pretty sure RCCL would work with them in scheduling.

 

[sam_gordon]

I said I have never been on one (and never will-another topic lol) so I agree it definitely depends on who is on the jury.

Ignore the cruise ship for a moment. You're on the 11th floor of a high rise. You walk over to a window and stand next to it for eight seconds. Is it reasonable for you to think an open window is closed? Again, senses other than sight should give you a clue the window is open.

 

[LSUmiss]

Ignore the cruise ship for a moment. You're on the 11th floor of a high rise. You walk over to a window and stand next to it for eight seconds. Is it reasonable for you to think an open window is closed? Again, senses other than sight should give you a clue the window is open.

Maybe unless he had some reason to believe that wind or whatever he felt was coming from somewhere else nearby.

 

[Deb]

Maybe unless he had some reason to believe that wind or whatever he felt was coming from somewhere else nearby.

and maybe he had some reason to believe there were piles of big fluffy pillows on the ships deck four feet below were he let her go sitting on a narrow railing?

 

[sam_gordon]

Maybe unless he had some reason to believe that wind or whatever he felt was coming from somewhere else nearby.

I didn't ask what he thought. I asked if YOU were standing in front of an open window, 100'+ into the air, do you think it's reasonable to think the window is closed? Presumably if there's wind, you'd feel it in your face (so coming through the window). I'm not sure where else it could be coming from to hit you in the face.

 

[LSUmiss]

I didn't ask what he thought. I asked if YOU were standing in front of an open window, 100'+ into the air, do you think it's reasonable to think the window is closed? Presumably if there's wind, you'd feel it in your face (so coming through the window). I'm not sure where else it could be coming from to hit you in the face.

I don’t think 8 seconds is a long time if you’re also preoccupied planting with a toddler.

 

[EMom]

I don’t see the grandfather actually crying on video. He scrunches his face, makes crying noises, and dabs at nonexistent tears, but there are no actual tears. That often shows a disconnect between the words you’re speaking and the truth.

 

[LSUmiss]

I don’t see the grandfather actually crying on video. He scrunches his face, makes crying noises, and dabs at nonexistent tears, but there are no actual tears. That often shows a disconnect between the words you’re speaking and the truth.

I did notice that. I don’t think that means he’s lying, but I do think it’s an odd detached reaction to recounting the story of how you accidentally killed your granddaughter.

 

[EMom]

I did notice that. I don’t think that means he’s lying, but I do think it’s an odd detached reaction to recounting the story of how you accidentally killed your granddaughter.

"Dry" crying is a real thing. Your know to make all the right faces and sounds, but no tears come out because there is a disconnect between your words and reality. You cannot produce real tears for a very good reason.

 

[LSUmiss]

"Dry" crying is a real thing. Your know to make all the right faces and sounds, but no tears come out because there is a disconnect between your words and reality. You cannot produce real tears for a very good reason.

No, I know it’s real, but usually the disconnect is that the person doesn’t really feel that emotion. So something is odd/off about a grandfather who doesn’t feel enough emotion to cry when describing how he dropped his granddaughter to her death.

 

[EMom]

No, I know it’s real, but usually the disconnect is that the person doesn’t really feel that emotion. So something is odd/off about a grandfather who doesn’t feel enough emotion to cry when describing how he dropped his granddaughter to her death.

I think, deep down, his brain knows that what is coming out of his mouth is not the truth. Hence, no tears.

 

[Princessclab]

If he is indeed color blind and blames that for his negligence, this appears to be a pretty bad handicapp that would be a reason he should not be responsible for an 18 month old.
JMO.

 

[luvsJack]

Can’t possibly explain the other senses not telling him the window is open but there are several types of color blindness. One kind is developed later in life and perhaps connected to having cataracts which also causes sight problems. So it could be a reasonable argument for not SEEING the window was open.

There is also the possibility that he was so “sure” the window was closed that he discounted any other clues. I am pretty sure most of us have had a moment where we were convinced of something and 100% knew we were right, only to realize 10 seconds later that we were not right.

I thought about this today when ds and dil were describing the bathroom at the concert venue they recently went to. The men’s and women’s room were next to each other. As you come out from the stalls there is a long line of sinks for hand washing. The sinks for both sides were across from each other with an opening between. Both said when you walk up to the sink, you expect it to be a mirror and because the two sides are identical it looks like a reflection. They both remarked how everyone they witnessed walking up to to the sink actually had to reach out to try and touch the mirror they thought was there. Even not seeing their own reflection, they thought a mirror was there and it took them a few seconds to realize something wasn’t right. Point being that each of these people expected a mirror to be there. For a few seconds or so, they were sure a mirror was there even with plain clue (not seeing their reflection) that there was not.

Now think about someone assuming a mirror was there and lifting a baby up to see their reflection or even to pat on the mirror.

and maybe he had some reason to believe there were piles of big fluffy pillows on the ships deck four feet below were he let her go sitting on a narrow railing?

In the interview, he didn’t say he let her go. He said he was holding her and she slipped out of his grip.

 

[LSUmiss]

Can’t possibly explain the other senses not telling him the window is open but there are several types of color blindness. One kind is developed later in life and perhaps connected to having cataracts which also causes sight problems. So it could be a reasonable argument for not SEEING the window was open.

There is also the possibility that he was so “sure” the window was closed that he discounted any other clues. I am pretty sure most of us have had a moment where we were convinced of something and 100% knew we were right, only to realize 10 seconds later that we were not right.

I thought about this today when ds and dil were describing the bathroom at the concert venue they recently went to. The men’s and women’s room were next to each other. As you come out from the stalls there is a long line of sinks for hand washing. The sinks for both sides were across from each other with an opening between. Both said when you walk up to the sink, you expect it to be a mirror and because the two sides are identical it looks like a reflection. They both remarked how everyone they witnessed walking up to to the sink actually had to reach out to try and touch the mirror they thought was there. Even not seeing their own reflection, they thought a mirror was there and it took them a few seconds to realize something wasn’t right. Point being that each of these people expected a mirror to be there. For a few seconds or so, they were sure a mirror was there even with plain clue (not seeing their reflection) that there was not.

Now think about someone assuming a mirror was there and lifting a baby up to see their reflection or even to pat on the mirror.




In the interview, he didn’t say he let her go. He said he was holding her and she slipped out of his grip.

And add to that being preoccupied with playing a toddler.

 

[mjkacmom]

Can’t possibly explain the other senses not telling him the window is open but there are several types of color blindness. One kind is developed later in life and perhaps connected to having cataracts which also causes sight problems. So it could be a reasonable argument for not SEEING the window was open.

There is also the possibility that he was so “sure” the window was closed that he discounted any other clues. I am pretty sure most of us have had a moment where we were convinced of something and 100% knew we were right, only to realize 10 seconds later that we were not right.

I thought about this today when ds and dil were describing the bathroom at the concert venue they recently went to. The men’s and women’s room were next to each other. As you come out from the stalls there is a long line of sinks for hand washing. The sinks for both sides were across from each other with an opening between. Both said when you walk up to the sink, you expect it to be a mirror and because the two sides are identical it looks like a reflection. They both remarked how everyone they witnessed walking up to to the sink actually had to reach out to try and touch the mirror they thought was there. Even not seeing their own reflection, they thought a mirror was there and it took them a few seconds to realize something wasn’t right. Point being that each of these people expected a mirror to be there. For a few seconds or so, they were sure a mirror was there even with plain clue (not seeing their reflection) that there was not.

Now think about someone assuming a mirror was there and lifting a baby up to see their reflection or even to pat on the mirror.




In the interview, he didn’t say he let her go. He said he was holding her and she slipped out of his grip.

At the salon I go to, they have many stations, in rows. There is a mirror in front of me, but an opening below between the station I’m at and the next row. Every time I look down, it feels like I’m looking at a reflection of my feet, but it’s actually the feet of the person sitting these. Drives me nuts.

 

[Princessclab]

Can’t possibly explain the other senses not telling him the window is open but there are several types of color blindness. One kind is developed later in life and perhaps connected to having cataracts which also causes sight problems. So it could be a reasonable argument for not SEEING the window was open.

There is also the possibility that he was so “sure” the window was closed that he discounted any other clues. I am pretty sure most of us have had a moment where we were convinced of something and 100% knew we were right, only to realize 10 seconds later that we were not right.

I thought about this today when ds and dil were describing the bathroom at the concert venue they recently went to. The men’s and women’s room were next to each other. As you come out from the stalls there is a long line of sinks for hand washing. The sinks for both sides were across from each other with an opening between. Both said when you walk up to the sink, you expect it to be a mirror and because the two sides are identical it looks like a reflection. They both remarked how everyone they witnessed walking up to to the sink actually had to reach out to try and touch the mirror they thought was there. Even not seeing their own reflection, they thought a mirror was there and it took them a few seconds to realize something wasn’t right. Point being that each of these people expected a mirror to be there. For a few seconds or so, they were sure a mirror was there even with plain clue (not seeing their reflection) that there was not.

Now think about someone assuming a mirror was there and lifting a baby up to see their reflection or even to pat on the mirror.




In the interview, he didn’t say he let her go. He said he was holding her and she slipped out of his grip.

Nope, either way he was negligent and possibly too casual.
Not a mirror situation, just a window.
Yes, a mirror can confuse (smoke and mirrors used in magic) but those windows do not have a mirror like reflection at all.
Sight problems can be considered a handicapp.

 

[luvsJack]

Nope, either way he was negligent and possibly too casual.
Not a mirror situation, just a window.
Yes, a mirror can confuse (smoke and mirrors used in magic) but those windows do not have a mirror like reflection at all.
Sight problems can be considered a handicapp.

Nope? How can you possibly know with certainty what was going on with this man? You don’t know, none of us do. Everyone here is just Monday morning quarterbacking.

Nothing I said had anything to do with the windows having or not having a reflection. I used their experience just to show how easy it is to think you are 100% sure of something only to realize in a few seconds that you are totally wrong. They had a most definitive clue that there was no mirror and yet was so sure there was that they had to reach out to touch it. Unless any of those people were vampires, not having a reflection was a huge clue. There was NO mirror to confuse, it didn’t exist so “smoke and mirror” tricks doesn’t apply.

I am aware that sight problems can be considered a disability, not sure of your point. I certainly hope you are not implying that someone with a disability should not be caring for a child. That would be a horrible insult to many wonderful, fine parents.

And with all that said, I don’t think a lawsuit is necessarily warranted (unless the family is aware of something the rest of us are not) but I don’t think this poor man is guilty of anything except a tragic accident. It doesn’t have to be one or the other.

 

[Princessclab]

Nope? How can you possibly know with certainty what was going on with this man? You don’t know, none of us do. Everyone here is just Monday morning quarterbacking.

Nothing I said had anything to do with the windows having or not having a reflection. I used their experience just to show how easy it is to think you are 100% sure of something only to realize in a few seconds that you are totally wrong. They had a most definitive clue that there was no mirror and yet was so sure there was that they had to reach out to touch it. Unless any of those people were vampires, not having a reflection was a huge clue. There was NO mirror to confuse, it didn’t exist so “smoke and mirror” tricks doesn’t apply.

I am aware that sight problems can be considered a disability, not sure of your point. I certainly hope you are not implying that someone with a disability should not be caring for a child. That would be a horrible insult to many wonderful, fine parents.

And with all that said, I don’t think a lawsuit is necessarily warranted (unless the family is aware of something the rest of us are not) but I don’t think this poor man is guilty of anything except a tragic accident. It doesn’t have to be one or the other.

Nope, you are exagerating and greatly speculating. You used a mirror in your example in relation to seeing things which the grandpa is claiming he has trouble with.
Just going on the info in the news and the interview with the grandpa.
Please don't put words in my mouth in order to state and support your argument.
As far as parents with a handicapp any parent that may have a handicapp recognizes their limitation and works with it. This is no way makes them a bad parent as you have brought up but there is a oersonal responsi ility for the safety of a child, which a parent with a handicapp is very aware of.