This is just so sad,,and makes me ask WHY would someone do this?? I don't call it 'playing'??

[msjprincess]

If an adult sat on the railing and fell out of the window would anyone blame the cruise line? I doubt it. This is no different. Even if he somehow didn't realize that the window was open she shouldn't have been on the railing.

 

[mnrose]

That's always been my position...the kid should never have been perched on the railing, and "held over" it. Makes no sense. And, if these parents persist in this ridiculous lawsuit, I'd point to the fact that hundreds of thousands of kids have traveled on these boats over the years and a grand total of ZERO before Chloe had fallen out these allegedly "dangerous" windows. If the windows were inherently dangerous and not "safe", there would surely have been at least a few accidents (or near accidents) of a similar type.

 

[Disney1fan2002]

I still don't understand how anyone can stand at an open window and think it is closed. The wind, the noise. There is a lot of noise when a ship is docked. You're on the water, so there would be a breeze, the SMELL.! And you would hear the water hitting the ship.

That being said, I don't think he had intent, isn't that a huge part of finding someone guilty of a crime? I have a perfect real life example:

When I was a teenager, my sister and I were home alone. I found some kind of old katana sword in one of my brother's closets. It was rusty has hell, but looked cool. I can still picture it today, almost 40 years later. My sister was in the kitchen, standing against the sink. I came in and started swinging it yelling "HAAAA YAAA!" All of a sudden, I was holding only the handle, as the blade had swung off and was sweeping towards my sister. It went above her head, I think she said she felt it cut her hair. (80's big hair). The two of us froze and hyperventilated. HOLY CRAP!!! I almost beheaded my sister.

Had that happened, should I have been arrested and charged with murder?

 

[lifesavacation]

I still don't understand how anyone can stand at an open window and think it is closed. The wind, the noise. There is a lot of noise when a ship is docked. You're on the water, so there would be a breeze, the SMELL.! And you would hear the water hitting the ship.

That being said, I don't think he had intent, isn't that a huge part of finding someone guilty of a crime? I have a perfect real life example:

When I was a teenager, my sister and I were home alone. I found some kind of old katana sword in one of my brother's closets. It was rusty has hell, but looked cool. I can still picture it today, almost 40 years later. My sister was in the kitchen, standing against the sink. I came in and started swinging it yelling "HAAAA YAAA!" All of a sudden, I was holding only the handle, as the blade had swung off and was sweeping towards my sister. It went above her head, I think she said she felt it cut her hair. (80's big hair). The two of us froze and hyperventilated. HOLY CRAP!!! I almost beheaded my sister.

Had that happened, should I have been arrested and charged with murder?

I think your example is a little different than what happened with Chloe. If you were swinging the sword and it broke away from the handle and hurt someone, the manufacturer would hold the liability. So if the grandpa was leaning against the railing, the railing broke, and then they fell out the window, that would be more similar to your sword example.

 

[sam_gordon]

That being said, I don't think he had intent, isn't that a huge part of finding someone guilty of a crime?

First, he's not charged with murder. Second, what he IS charged with is negligent homicide. Intent is not a factor. Here's the PR law:

“Any person who causes the death of another through negligence shall incur a misdemeanor, but shall receive the penalty established for a fourth degree felony.” P.R. Laws tit. 33, § 4737

Did he cause the death of another? I don't think anyone (aside from the family) denies this.
Was he negligent? This is the entire crux. IMO, it's hard to say "no".

FWIW, the punishment for a fourth degree felony is imprisonment for between six months, one day and three years.

 

[EMom]

It’s a charge of NEGLIGENT homicide. No intent required, just negligence.

 

[arminnie]

I don’t care if that window was padlocked - he was negligent the second he put her on a railing.

She probably wouldn’t have died From a fall to the floor but she could have. I personally know 3 people who died from a fall. Just to the floor - not off a balcony or down a staircase. Just hit their head, cracked the skull and died.

 

[luvsJack]

When one sense starts to go, the others compensate for it. There is absolutely no way to stand in front of an open window on a ship and NOT know it is open. Unless you have been on a cruise ship, you don't know.

An open window is an open window. You feel a breeze, you hear sounds, you smell the salt water. I get it. I am not saying he shouldn’t have known. I don’t have to be on a cruise ship to know what an open window close to or on the water is like.

 

[gwynne]

An open window is an open window. You feel a breeze, you hear sounds, you smell the salt water. I get it. I am not saying he shouldn’t have known. I don’t have to be on a cruise ship to know what an open window close to or on the water is like.

And with trade winds, you generally feel the breeze even more than with the usual window open stateside.

 

[Imzadi]

Secondly, even if he's color blind, he would see tones. When someone cant' see, say, the color red, they don't see nothing, they see gray. So, even assuming he was color blind and cannot differentiate the color blue (the tint of the windows), he would still be able to recognize that they were tinted, but might think that they're tinted gray. So, he could discern the tinting, regardless.

Exactly! I was talking to an art teacher about this a couple weeks ago. She said she has a few colorblind students and was wondering what to do? I recommended a painting & drawing technique called Grisaille painting which is totally with different tones of gray, black & white. NO colors at all. (Some kids naturally doodle and draw this way in their notebooks, with their pencils. They realize that when they pressed lighter and darker with the side of their pencils, they can change the tone of their gray #2 pencil.)

Also there is a popular painting method called monotone painting in which a person uses just one color, say purple, and white and black paint, and only paints with those, mixing lighter and darker tones of that one color to make highlights & shadows.

So, the man would be able to see that the tinted darker window panes, or in this case, the lack thereof, would be different. Not, to mention, as other posters have said, there would be a breeze, smells & sound coming through the lighter window pane.

So this "elderly," "doddering," (at 51,) now "colorblind," grandfather placed an 18 month old child on a thin wood railing, yet somehow it's RC's fault she fell OFF and THROUGH. Not!

I have to wonder who the attorney for the grandfather thinks he will get as jury members? Is he betting he can make up a whole jury of only young people who think 51 is ancient, and has no squirmy kids of their own? That they will buy the claims that he is elderly, doddering and colorblind, so it's all RC's fault?


I also have to wonder about the parents. One is a police officer and the other a prosecutor. Both professions require that they are able to strongly and accurately assess people. Yet, neither were able to assess that the father/father-in-law might have lacked the judgement abilities to have been left with an 18 month old in his care. (NOT that in a million years would they ever have thought of him placing her near an open window to fall through.) But, they might have had some doubts, deep down inside about his judgement or abilities. And they just can't face that fact, that had they listened to their own instincts and not have left Chloe alone in Grandpa's care, Chloe would be alive today. So, instead, it HAS to, instead, be RC's fault. I feel for this family's devastating heartbreak. But, in my opinion, in no way, shape or form, is this RC's fault.

 

[Breezy_Carol]

I was curious if they had an interior stateroom. How dangerous would a balcony cabin be?

 

[EMom]

I was curious if they had an interior stateroom. How dangerous would a balcony cabin be?

Since Gramps would’ve likely let her stand on the balcony railing....pretty dangerous.

 

[3smithboys]

My twins are red/green colorblind but still know red and green. They do see the shading differently though. Hey, if it was a problem, I’m sure they wouldn’t be allowed to drive!

 

[tzolkin]

I don’t care if that window was padlocked - he was negligent the second he put her on a railing.

She probably wouldn’t have died From a fall to the floor but she could have. I personally know 3 people who died from a fall. Just to the floor - not off a balcony or down a staircase. Just hit their head, cracked the skull and died.

This has been my opinion since page 1. I know I can be overly paranoid sometimes (since I was a small child I could see any object and instantly imagine 50 ways you could be killed or maimed with it), but holding a toddler on a railing even if the window was closed is still stupid in my opinion.

There is a tiny chance that the window could have broken, but much more likely but less severe outcomes could have been broken bones, a brain injury, knocking her teeth out, etc. when she slipped between the railing and the closed window.

 

[Imzadi]

My twins are red/green colorblind but still know red and green. They do see the shading differently though. Hey, if it was a problem, I’m sure they wouldn’t be allowed to drive!

They can also see that one of the lights is ON and know that the top one is always a red light and the bottom is green. And if it's a single flashing light it would be red. If it's a flashing yellow light, they can see that color.

 

[Imzadi]

Window tinting has also come a long way in the last few decades. On cars and in skyscrapers, it is very subtle, but the tinting is there. It is mainly there to stop the glare that happens when the sun is setting, and is at such an angle that it is blinding when it comes through the windows, and the reflection off shiny glass makes the glare even worse.

The tinting on the RC ships are probably for the same reason. Not only does it make the water look a pretty blue, but it's to stop the glare from the sun and the reflected light off the top of the ocean.

I haven't been on a cruise ship, but I remember when I first started noticing windows on skyscrapers are subtly tinted, as one can clearly see when a window is open. And I remember back in the 80s when I had to have a car side window replaced and the replacement guy said my windows were slightly tinted and it would cost $75 more than if the windows weren't. And no, he wasn't going to put in an untinted window on a car with tinted windows. As subtle as the tinting was. It would really be noticeable to put in an untinted window.

That's why all the previous posters who've said that once you've been on a cruise ship, it's obvious when a window is open. [Edited typo:] And from the pics I've seen, those RC ship windows aren't subtly tinted.

 

[Imzadi]

I was curious if they had an interior stateroom. How dangerous would a balcony cabin be?

Since Gramps would’ve likely let her stand on the balcony railing....pretty dangerous.

It's due to idiot lawsuits like this that McDonalds had to put, "Caution: Contents may be hot," on their hot cups as there are idoits who don't know better. And why, if Grandpa wins his lawsuit, there may be annoyingly stupid signs on all the windows that open & close in the U.S. And also for people to not perch children on tiny railings.

 

[Deb]

Window tinting has also come a long way in the last few decades. On cars and in skyscrapers, it is very subtle, but the tinting is there. It is mainly there to stop the glare that happens when the sun is setting, and is at such an angle that it is blinding when it comes through the windows, and the reflection off shiny glass makes the glare even worse.

The tinting on the RC ships are probably for the same reason. Not only does it make the water look a pretty blue, but it's to stop the glare from the sun and the reflected light off the top of the ocean.

I haven't been on a cruise ship, but I remember when I first started noticing windows on skyscrapers are subtly tinted, as one can clearly see when a window is open. And I remember back in the 80s when I had to have a car side window replaced and the replacement guy said my windows were slightly tinted and it would cost $75 more than if the windows weren't. And no, he wasn't going to put in an untinted window on a car with tinted windows. As subtle as the tinting was. It would really be noticeable to put in an untinted window.

That's why all the previous posters who've said that once you've been on a cruise ship, it's obvious when a window is open. And from the pics I've seen, those RC ship windows are subtly tinted.

there's nothing subtle about the tinting. It's a fairly dark blue.

 

[sam_gordon]

It's due to idiot lawsuits like this that McDonalds had to put, "Caution: Contents may be hot," on their hot cups as there are idoits who don't know better. And why, if Grandpa wins his lawsuit, there may be annoyingly stupid signs on all the windows that open & close in the U.S. And also for people to not perch children on tiny railings.

I suggest doing some research on the McDonalds case. I thought the same as you until I found out the true story.

 

[msjprincess]

I suggest doing some research on the McDonalds case. I thought the same as you until I found out the true story.

I was about to post the same thing. That wasn't a frivolous lawsuit. And she didn't sue for a lot. She only wanted her medical expenses paid. The jury suggested she should get almost $3mil.