Trying to help a friend; can Disney force someone in a wheelchair to leave the chair or ECV in order to ride the attraction?

[geek+nerd]

I don’t understand Disney’s definition of transfer. To me, transfer means I can get out of my chair onto the ride; walking is not implied. However, that does not seem to be what CMs mean when they ask if you can transfer.

 

[Evita_W]

I don’t understand Disney’s definition of transfer. To me, transfer means I can get out of my chair onto the ride; walking is not implied. However, that does not seem to be what CMs mean when they ask if you can transfer.

Yeah, doesn't make sense to me either, transfer and walking are two different things.

 

[bopper]

Your friend has to change their mindset...It is not that Disney is forcing them to transfer, it is that this ride requires transfer and if they cannot do that this is not a ride they can ride. There are many other rides to ride. Disney tells you which rides require transfer and which do not.
https://disneyland.disney.go.com/guest-services/mobility-disabilities/
Also note that Disneyland was built before WDW and may not be as ADA friendly.

 

[Evita_W]

Your friend has to change their mindset...It is not that Disney is forcing them to transfer, it is that this ride requires transfer and if they cannot do that this is not a ride they can ride. There are many other rides to ride. Disney tells you which rides require transfer and which do not.
https://disneyland.disney.go.com/guest-services/mobility-disabilities/
Also note that Disneyland was built before WDW and may not be as ADA friendly.

DCA is more ADA friendly, but even Disneyland has done a lot to be more ADA friendly.

 

[Mystify]

on Buzz for example, they make you park your EVC across from the entrance and you can transfer to a wheel chair that is near where you park the EVCs.

 

[Evita_W]

on Buzz for example, they make you park your EVC across from the entrance and you can transfer to a wheel chair that is near where you park the EVCs.

Again, if you can't do that, let them know, there is an alternate entrance. You still park your ECV outside, but it is a very short walk through the exit.

 

[mamabunny]

Again, if you can't do that, let them know, there is an alternate entrance. You still park your ECV outside, but it is a very short walk through the exit.

I have gotten more pushback on the queue at Buzz than any other attraction at WDW since using a mobility device. Until I saw it mentioned here, I wasn't even aware that there was an allowed "alternate entrance"! I had finally given up on Buzz, because until I got my personal chair, (which has yet to make a trip to WDW, thanks to the pandemic) we *never* hit Buzz at a time when any attraction chairs were available, and despite my direct questions, were never told about an alternate entrance that would have allowed me to skip the use of the attraction wheelchair.

If Disney would just be *consistent* it would solve SO many problems...

 

[Evita_W]

I have gotten more pushback on the queue at Buzz than any other attraction at WDW since using a mobility device. Until I saw it mentioned here, I wasn't even aware that there was an allowed "alternate entrance"! I had finally given up on Buzz, because until I got my personal chair, (which has yet to make a trip to WDW, thanks to the pandemic) we *never* hit Buzz at a time when any attraction chairs were available, and despite my direct questions, were never told about an alternate entrance that would have allowed me to skip the use of the attraction wheelchair.

If Disney would just be *consistent* it would solve SO many problems...

DH has gotten pushback there as well, but he is persistent and mentions he knows there is an alternative entrance. Altho honestly we only do Buzz there about once every five trips or so since it really.iant as good at the DL version.

 

[bobbiwoz]

Before COVID Haunted Mansion had stopped allowing ECVs into the indoor portion of the queue, but a park provided wheelchair was available, but you had to ask and sometimes get a lead involved to get it. I am happy to report that at least on July 17th, they were allowing ECVs through the entire queue, you could take them straight up to the ride vehicle if need be. There were similar issues with Rise of the Resistance, which have also been corrected.


….

Regarding the Haunted Mansion at WDW. Between the dark and the moving walkway, I cannot walk safely through the line and to the Doom Buggy. My balance is compromised. Are you saying that I can ride the ECV and somehow get to a Doom Buggy??
I barely make it walking on Buzz, but exiting is harder. Can they help with that ride too?

Thank you.

 

[SueM in MN]

I have gotten more pushback on the queue at Buzz than any other attraction at WDW since using a mobility device. Until I saw it mentioned here, I wasn't even aware that there was an allowed "alternate entrance"! I had finally given up on Buzz, because until I got my personal chair, (which has yet to make a trip to WDW, thanks to the pandemic) we *never* hit Buzz at a time when any attraction chairs were available, and despite my direct questions, were never told about an alternate entrance that would have allowed me to skip the use of the attraction wheelchair.

If Disney would just be *consistent* it would solve SO many problems...

Often the reason they are not consistent is because of things guests can’t see that are backstage - for example, the place guests could possibly wait at the exit us already full
A couple comments:
Flight of Passage in Avatar:
We have gone to this with our daughter multiple times and she has stayed in her manual wheelchair in both preshow rooms and into the ride car room. We have always been assigned numbers on the ends of rows, which allowed us to ‘overflow’ into the area of the floor without numbers. I have also been in those rooms with other guests using wheelchairs, including power wheelchairs. My DD’s wheelchair is fairly narrow (25 inches wide) but wider ones look like they would fit. ECVs can’t turn very sharply, which is probably why they are not allowed in the preshow and boarding area. I don’t know why they would have turned down a power wheelchair to go all the way to loading; it’s possible it could have been a misunderstanding

Pirates of the Caribbean at WDW:
The ride loads in one building and unloads in another building, one floor down from where guests come in. CMs have to move mobility devices from the loading area into the unload area (using a small elevator). That’s the reason they prefer everyone to use an attraction wheelchair - there have been situations where the guest got to the unload area before their personal wheelchair.
After unloading, boats go into an area that’s just high enough for the boat itself to go thru in order to get back to the loading area. Because of this, they can’t have guests with mobility devices load and unload in the same location like some other attractions do.
The ‘alternate entrance’ requires a CM to bring the guest backstage near to the door used to bring mobility devices out of the load area. There may be a wait for a CM to be free; the advantage to the ride CMs is the CM can take the device right to the unload area after the guest gets off it.
Interesting fact: in the ‘way past’, people’s personal wheelchair were actually loaded onto the boat with them if the wheelchair was small/light enough and could be folded. The guests got into the boat and the CM basically ‘tossed’ the wheelchair into the back row. I’ve heard 3 reasons they stopped down that; CM back injuries getting wheelchairs on and off, wheelchairs getting damage during the ‘toss’, wheelchair falling off of the boat during the fall

Buzz Lightyear at WDW:
The alternate entrance is at the exit, which is a tight and congested area.
The ride exits into a gift shop into the area where guests getting off the ride congregate to look at their on ride photos. So, to get there, you would need to navigate ‘against the flow’ in the gift shop and photo viewing area. The actual exit is a pretty small area and has only a small area where wheelchairs or ECVs can park. We use the wheelchair car for our daughter and when getting out, CMs have often needed to move a mobility device so we can exit.
These screenshots from a YouTube video show how tight the area is. Blue arrows show where mobility devices are sometimes parked.View attachment 598901xView attachment 598902

 

[mamabunny]

Often the reason they are not consistent is because of things guests can’t see that are backstage - for example, the place guests could possibly wait at the exit us already full
A couple comments:
Flight of Passage in Avatar:
We have gone to this with our daughter multiple times and she has stayed in her manual wheelchair in both preshow rooms and into the ride car room. We have always been assigned numbers on the ends of rows, which allowed us to ‘overflow’ into the area of the floor without numbers. I have also been in those rooms with other guests using wheelchairs, including power wheelchairs. My DD’s wheelchair is fairly narrow (25 inches wide) but wider ones look like they would fit. ECVs can’t turn very sharply, which is probably why they are not allowed in the preshow and boarding area. I don’t know why they would have turned down a power wheelchair to go all the way to loading; it’s possible it could have been a misunderstanding

Pirates of the Caribbean at WDW:
The ride loads in one building and unloads in another building, one floor down from where guests come in. CMs have to move mobility devices from the loading area into the unload area (using a small elevator). That’s the reason they prefer everyone to use an attraction wheelchair - there have been situations where the guest got to the unload area before their personal wheelchair.
After unloading, boats go into an area that’s just high enough for the boat itself to go thru in order to get back to the loading area. Because of this, they can’t have guests with mobility devices load and unload in the same location like some other attractions do.
The ‘alternate entrance’ requires a CM to bring the guest backstage near to the door used to bring mobility devices out of the load area. There may be a wait for a CM to be free; the advantage to the ride CMs is the CM can take the device right to the unload area after the guest gets off it.
Interesting fact: in the ‘way past’, people’s personal wheelchair were actually loaded onto the boat with them if the wheelchair was small/light enough and could be folded. The guests got into the boat and the CM basically ‘tossed’ the wheelchair into the back row. I’ve heard 3 reasons they stopped down that; CM back injuries getting wheelchairs on and off, wheelchairs getting damage during the ‘toss’, wheelchair falling off of the boat during the fall

Buzz Lightyear at WDW:
The alternate entrance is at the exit, which is a tight and congested area.
The ride exits into a gift shop into the area where guests getting off the ride congregate to look at their on ride photos. So, to get there, you would need to navigate ‘against the flow’ in the gift shop and photo viewing area. The actual exit is a pretty small area and has only a small area where wheelchairs or ECVs can park. We use the wheelchair car for our daughter and when getting out, CMs have often needed to move a mobility device so we can exit.
These screenshots from a YouTube video show how tight the area is. Blue arrows show where mobility devices are sometimes parked.View attachment 598901xView attachment 598902

Thanks for that information Sue - it really does shed some light on some things for me. I also saw the screenshots you posted about the alternate entrance/ride exit area for Buzz and where mobility devices are supposed to be parked in those areas.

 

[Tiggerish]

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I don’t understand Disney’s definition of transfer. To me, transfer means I can get out of my chair onto the ride; walking is not implied. However, that does not seem to be what CMs mean when they ask if you can transfer.

To the CM asking if you can transfer it is a polite request to take your mobility device and have you walk and stand and wait from that point forward. Many people can actually do that and it keeps the line moving so it is the standard practice.

A CM explained to me that when asked if I can transfer and I want to stay in my chair all the way to the ride car door to answer: "I can transfer but I cannot walk or stand for any length of time." That has worked well for me.

 

[mousefan73]

Regarding the Haunted Mansion at WDW. Between the dark and the moving walkway, I cannot walk safely through the line and to the Doom Buggy. My balance is compromised. Are you saying that I can ride the ECV and somehow get to a Doom Buggy??
I barely make it walking on Buzz, but exiting is harder. Can they help with that ride too?

Thank you.

OMG you could be my mom. She has the same issue with this ride. Checking out Thread here on how we best go about her next trip. Same thing with the Nemo line

 

[SueM in MN]

We were at WDW for 3 weeks in June 2021.
At that time, the Shrinking room was not being used at all. If it’s not being used, there is no point in having guests using mobility devices going into the regular line. There is not a way to pull them out to park their mobility device except the door in the boarding area right after leaving the Shrinking room.
How it worked when we rode, all using mobility devices bypassed the regular line and used the exit hallway to go into the attraction.
Guests were asked if they could walk (I forgot the distance they said) parked their mobility device out by the Pet Cemetery and walked into the ‘Servant’s Entrance’ back door that leads to the loading area. There were 2 other parallel waiting lines near that door. One was people who could walk, but not as far as to park their ECV and walk from the Pet Cemetery. They waited until a CM called them in, then a member of their party or a CM moved their mobility device while they went in.

We were in the 3rd category who needed to load at the actual unload area.
That included guests who could only walk a shorter distance, needed to bring their wheelchair all the way to get on and/or needed the moving walkway stopped. It can only be stopped on particular car numbers - the CMs monitor how long that will be and group those who need the walkway stopped to board together,
We need to use the ADA car for its wider opening, have the moving walkway totally stopped and bring DD’s wheelchair onto the stopped walkway right by the doombuggy. We waited in line by the Servant’s door until a CM called us the wait at the end of the hall at the end of the exit walkway; we waited there for a few minutes with other guests until the CM motioned us that the walkway was stopped and people were no longer getting out.

Some guests who needed to board there, but didn’t need the walkway stopped were pulled ahead of us to board in a group.

 

[SueM in MN]

When the Shrinking room is being used at WDW, guests using mobility devices inside may be handled different ways. In most cases, they would use the same lines and enter the building the same as other guests. The difference is they need to use a bypass hallway (Servant’s Entrance) to get from the shrinking room to the exit where they will park their mobility device and board.

From what I understand, differences can be due to a number of factors.
- Size of mobility devices
The Servant‘s Entrance hallway has several fairly sharp turns. The WDW rental ECVs and some of the larger offsite rental ECVs are too big to make those turns.
Guests using those large ones will be asked to park near the Pet Cemetery. They can enter thru the regular line or be sent in using the Servant’s Entrance. They will then board with all the other guests, unless they bypass the shrinking room and board At the unload area.

- Staffing
I don’t think this happens often, but my understanding if they don’t have enough staff, guests using mobility devices skip the Shrinking Room unless they are able to walk the distance of the line.

- unusual incidents
I have heard of several incidents/accidents involving guests using ECVs in the Shrinking Room and/or hallway. In the past, they did a temporary pause of letting guests using mobility devices experience the Shrinking Room while investigation was done.

 

[fabfemmeboy]

Flight of Passage in Avatar:
We have gone to this with our daughter multiple times and she has stayed in her manual wheelchair in both preshow rooms and into the ride car room. We have always been assigned numbers on the ends of rows, which allowed us to ‘overflow’ into the area of the floor without numbers. I have also been in those rooms with other guests using wheelchairs, including power wheelchairs. My DD’s wheelchair is fairly narrow (25 inches wide) but wider ones look like they would fit. ECVs can’t turn very sharply, which is probably why they are not allowed in the preshow and boarding area. I don’t know why they would have turned down a power wheelchair to go all the way to loading; it’s possible it could have been a misunderstanding

I tried to ride this today. I've only been on it during one prior trip (because we moved to the west coast right before Pandora opened), when a) I didn't realize how early I would be separated from my chair and b) they were only doing one preshow. So I told the CM who asked if I was comfortable transferring (as they had everyone getting off their ECVs before preshows), "I can transfer, but I can't stand for the preshows." I was told that they don't allow any electric vehicles into the preshows because it's too narrow, and I would need to wheel myself in a manual chair. I told the CM I can't wheel myself, and that my chair is narrower with a smaller turning radius than a standard chair. The CM called to get authorization to let me take the chair into the room, but it was denied because policy is that only manual chairs go through the preshows. So instead they took me into a back closet of a room with attraction chairs, had me transfer into one of those, and three different CMs had to push me from/to different parts of the preshow.

Interestingly, while I was waiting for the bus, I did some searching and I'm pretty sure the 2010 ADA amendments prohibit treating manual and electric wheelchairs differently from one another? ECVs are in a separate category and there are 5 factors that determine whether they should be allowed in an area or not, but not wheelchairs.

 

[AprilsZoo]

From https://www.ada.gov/opdmd.htm :

​

Covered entities must also allow people with disabilities who use other types of power-driven mobility devices into their facilities, unless a particular type of device cannot be accommodated because of legitimate safety requirements. Where legitimate safety requirements bar accommodation for a particular type of device, the covered entity must provide the service it offers in alternate ways if possible.
[Emphasis mine]

​

​

Disney must believe that there is a safety issue associated with allowing powered wheelchairs in the area. I’m betting it comes from many situations where a guest swears that their powerchair or ECV “can turn on a dime… really.” True, most people using a powerchair know their chair and how to maneuver it in relatively tight spaces, but not all users do. ECV are an even bigger issue (pun intended).

I haven’t been inside FOP, but videos make it look pretty tight in there, as opposed to the larger amount of open space in Soarin’ for example.

So, if they are able to provide a manual wheelchair and someone to push it if the guest is unable to propel themself and has no one in their party who can help, then I think this would meet the requirement of this section.

On the other hand if they simply said ‘no powered mobility devices’ and offered no alternative means of access, then that would fail the test, IMO.

Disney has teams of ADA lawyers whose sole job is to provide counsel & suggestions to shape policies that allow people with disabilities fair, equal access. The goal is to come up with policies that will meet the requirements of the law while simultaneously keeping everyone safe. There’s just no benefit for Disney to exclude anyone without good reason— even if it’s not readily apparent what that reason is.

 

[ti2xgrr]

What about space mountain at WDW? My husband has balance issues and cannot wheel himself and I cannot push him there

 

[Evita_W]

What about space mountain at WDW? My husband has balance issues and cannot wheel himself and I cannot push him there

Some people have said that CMs have offered to push at that location, not sure.

 

[bopper]

You are probably thinkiing from a point of view of: I am in my motorized wheelchair all the time and am a pro at it. I am a careful person who will take care not to hit people.

Disney is thinking: Grandma is using a ECV for the first time and doesn't have control. She doesn't have a good idea where the front and back are. Others often jump in front of ECVs not understanding they won't stop.

So Disney thinks it best that there are no motorized vehicles in the area because they can't know who is "good at it" and who isn't. For everyone's safety they don't allow any. However, they do make sure you can ride the attraction. You were offered a manual wheel chair and provided someone to push it.
Does that take away your independence? yes But does it allow you to ride the ride? also yes.