Universal buys 100 acres of land

[jknezek]

I think this discussion is good and very interesting .... but perhaps moved to a new thread called "statistical analysis of potentional for 5th Disney gate" rather than this thread as new people would be coming looking for info/discussion on Universal and this new land and would be awfully confused

Yeah, yeah... we're back on target now. It happens. My bad.

 

[jade1]

Yeah, yeah... we're back on target now. It happens. My bad.

Your populace training was an impressive steamrolling. Well done.

 

[embracejg]

And I really don't see Orlando giving them permission on public roadway to build a private rapid transit of any kind to connect just their parks. Orlando is going to want some kind of public benefit. See the fights over Disney's desire to be the first stop on the maglev train that has been proposed for the new rail station. Apparently Disney won't help with the funding unless they are the first stop, not just a stop. So Disney was completely cut out, and now the whole project, which was something of a pipe dream anyway, is beyond jeopardy and probably into lost cause status.

I could imagine Universal being a far more willing partner than Disney. It already offers a shuttle from hotels to Sea World, right?

It's not like bus service wouldn't be an option. You're talking about connecting parks which would be closer together than some Disney parks. In a higher-traffic area, sure, but it's not like it's going to take hours to get between these two sites.

To the person who suggested this may just be to flip the land in 6 months----this isn't some real estate developer. Why would Comcast buy this big chunk of land next to a bigger chunk of land it already owned if not to build something on it? I'm sure selling the land is an option if the economy absolutely tanks, but trying to turn it for a quick profit considering when they may never find a better location on which to expand their resort? That seems absurd.

 

[jknezek]

I could imagine Universal being a far more willing partner than Disney. It already offers a shuttle from hotels to Sea World, right?

It's not like bus service wouldn't be an option. You're talking about connecting parks which would be closer together than some Disney parks. In a higher-traffic area, sure, but it's not like it's going to take hours to get between these two sites.

To the person who suggested this may just be to flip the land in 6 months----this isn't some real estate developer. Why would Comcast buy this big chunk of land next to a bigger chunk of land it already owned if not to build something on it? I'm sure selling the land is an option if the economy absolutely tanks, but trying to turn it for a quick profit considering when they may never find a better location on which to expand their resort? That seems absurd.

I'm going to agree they have plans for this plot. They have several other disparate plots floating around the same area, as a PP put up on a map, that I think are less useful and more speculative. But I think this plot is, at this point, aimed at another whole gate and hotel(s) complex. I just don't think it's necessarily imminent. I just think the land came up and it was an opportunity they weren't sure they'd get again to haul in enough land. The 100 acre addition is clearly to provide frontage and access as well as to expand the site.

As for transport between the parks and the new plot, it just depends. For example, it's hard to build the Ministry of Magic on the new plot and have it keep the immersive magic in a connection if that connection involves public stops. It has to be something direct. Even the Knight Bus (compliments to JK Rowling for this nightmare of transportation), which makes stops, would be hard to replicate in terms of magic on a public road. However, if all you need to do is shift people back and forth in a non-immersive manner, a bus would work fine. It's not like Disney's internal bus transportation doesn't stop at lights and stop signs and intersections. But I just don't see the city and Universal really working together to build a direct connection along the city's right of way. Universal would have to connect all those disparate plots and it's probably not worth doing when you can just run buses.

However, I think it would be the greatest middle finger ever if Universal built a PeopleMover type thing to get people back and forth. Just saying...

 

[jade1]

I'm going to agree they have plans for this plot. They have several other disparate plots floating around the same area, as a PP put up on a map, that I think are less useful and more speculative. But I think this plot is, at this point, aimed at another whole gate and hotel(s) complex. I just don't think it's necessarily imminent. I just think the land came up and it was an opportunity they weren't sure they'd get again to haul in enough land. The 100 acre addition is clearly to provide frontage and access as well as to expand the site.

As for transport between the parks and the new plot, it just depends. For example, it's hard to build the Ministry of Magic on the new plot and have it keep the immersive magic in a connection if that connection involves public stops. It has to be something direct. Even the Knight Bus (compliments to JK Rowling for this nightmare of transportation), which makes stops, would be hard to replicate in terms of magic on a public road. However, if all you need to do is shift people back and forth in a non-immersive manner, a bus would work fine. It's not like Disney's internal bus transportation doesn't stop at lights and stop signs and intersections. But I just don't see the city and Universal really working together to build a direct connection along the city's right of way. Universal would have to connect all those disparate plots and it's probably not worth doing when you can just run buses.

However, I think it would be the greatest middle finger ever if Universal built a PeopleMover type thing to get people back and forth. Just saying...

Maybe another Hogwarts Express back and forth.

US is a must do almost every trip so great news.

US sold like 475 acres in 2003 if I remember-wonder if they bought some or all of that back.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I'm going to agree they have plans for this plot. They have several other disparate plots floating around the same area, as a PP put up on a map, that I think are less useful and more speculative. But I think this plot is, at this point, aimed at another whole gate and hotel(s) complex. I just don't think it's necessarily imminent. I just think the land came up and it was an opportunity they weren't sure they'd get again to haul in enough land. The 100 acre addition is clearly to provide frontage and access as well as to expand the site.

As for transport between the parks and the new plot, it just depends. For example, it's hard to build the Ministry of Magic on the new plot and have it keep the immersive magic in a connection if that connection involves public stops. It has to be something direct. Even the Knight Bus (compliments to JK Rowling for this nightmare of transportation), which makes stops, would be hard to replicate in terms of magic on a public road. However, if all you need to do is shift people back and forth in a non-immersive manner, a bus would work fine. It's not like Disney's internal bus transportation doesn't stop at lights and stop signs and intersections. But I just don't see the city and Universal really working together to build a direct connection along the city's right of way. Universal would have to connect all those disparate plots and it's probably not worth doing when you can just run buses.

However, I think it would be the greatest middle finger ever if Universal built a PeopleMover type thing to get people back and forth. Just saying...

oh yeah, it would definitely need to be some sort of dedicated transport between the parks, not like a public bus system ... but I am sure Universal could grease the wheels with a little bit of $ to the city to allow them to build over public roads, etc.

I always thought the biggest middle finger would be a fully operations and spotless monorail system, but a people mover system would be good too

 

[rteetz]

Just to put the land and Universal's plans in perspective. They are currently looking at 1 new park, 3-4 new resorts, and a second City Walk type area.

 

[embracejg]

Maybe another Hogwarts Express back and forth.

US is a must do almost every trip so great news.

US sold like 475 acres in 2003 if I remember-wonder if they bought some or all of that back.

I believe they've now bought it all back. I'm not sure what they lost by selling it. Keep in mind Universal was owned by Vivendi in 2003, and its Comcast who bought the land back. Different parent companies, so different priorities.

Just to put the land and Universal's plans in perspective. They are currently looking at 1 new park, 3-4 new resorts, and a second City Walk type area.

Now we're talking. Would that development leave enough land left over for a second park down the line?

 

[jade1]

Just to put the land and Universal's plans in perspective. They are currently looking at 1 new park, 3-4 new resorts, and a second City Walk type area.

Awesome.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I think this discussion is good and very interesting .... but perhaps moved to a new thread called "statistical analysis of potentional for 5th Disney gate" rather than this thread as new people would be coming looking for info/discussion on Universal and this new land and would be awfully confused

Seriously...the disboards aren't for "new people"...

I mean...everyone's welcome...but we beat the dead horse here with gusto

 

[rteetz]

Now we're talking. Would that development leave enough land left over for a second park down the line?

Possibly but you have to think the new park would be over 100 acres large. IOA is roughly 110.

Add in 3-4 resorts, parking, transportation infrastructure, a second city walk, and anything else they may need. You could be looking at between 300-400 acres already used up.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

And I really don't see Orlando giving them permission on public roadway to build a private rapid transit of any kind to connect just their parks. Orlando is going to want some kind of public benefit. See the fights over Disney's desire to be the first stop on the maglev train that has been proposed for the new rail station. Apparently Disney won't help with the funding unless they are the first stop, not just a stop. So Disney was completely cut out, and now the whole project, which was something of a pipe dream anyway, is beyond jeopardy and probably into lost cause status.

Different scenario...

First, we're talking about a couple miles at most...so not nearly as big a deal...

And second, disney overplayed their hand politically under Eisner...so orlando's tact since has been more "open" to competitors to "keep them honest" at a minimum.

30 years ago, bonnet creek would never have gotten approval...in 10 years there's now 3 competing hotels located there...surrounded by wdw on all sides. Never would have happened if the disney control on the local area
Hadn't been eroded to a significant extent.

All the same...they can't have an overhead like cable cars over an interstate...but I would think they are way more open to some "under" system that connects two large tax generators areas and will yield tons into the coffers...

"Do you want tax? Do you want more tourists? Do you want new business and construction around it? Do you want more taxable housing to go with it?

...now about that permit..."

 

[sachilles]

as to flipping the land in 6 months........that isn't likely the plan, but it can be a very solid plan B. With enough money in the bank, buying it for future use makes sense, but if they find they need to sell it, they'll likely recoup their investment, so it's a no brainer.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

as to flipping the land in 6 months........that isn't likely the plan, but it can be a very solid plan B. With enough money in the bank, buying it for future use makes sense, but if they find they need to sell it, they'll likely recoup their investment, so it's a no brainer.

Right...the underlying point being that land transactions do NOT equate to new rides...

Just like still to this day anytime a turner or hill construction vehicle is seen driving on Burma vista drive...bus drivers start confirming night kingdom.

The world is complicated.

 

[jknezek]

Different scenario...

All the same...they can't have an overhead like cable cars over an interstate...but I would think they are way more open to some "under" system that connects two large tax generators areas and will yield tons into the coffers...

"Do you want tax? Do you want more tourists? Do you want new business and construction around it? Do you want more taxable housing to go with it?

...now about that permit..."

I get this, but to have that leverage you have to be willing to walk away from that plot of land if you don't get your special access. Like I said, they could run buses pretty easily. Road access is available, the mileage is certainly less than MK to AK, and it wouldn't take much time. So would Universal go to bat for "I'm not building this park unless you concede right of way around one of the busiest stretches of surface roads in the tourist district and convince the Federal Government to let us go over or under I4."

If I'm Orlando's city council I'm not buying it. I think they build on that land, or don't as the case was in the 90s when they first owned some or all of it in that area, regardless of whether the city gives them part of the right of away.

As for going "under", we all know what happens when you go under in FL. Unless you first build up, you quickly find yourself needing a submarine instead of a rapid transit. Considering they own private land from HP all the way through Volcano Bay, you can get up Turkey Lake Road at least as far as I4. Then if you could bribe someone maybe you can go over I4 to the Wet and Wild plot, maybe they get some kind of access along Universal Blvd up to Sand Lake, widening the road and slapping it down the side or middle. But how do you get around the massive Sand Lake/S Kirkman Road Interchange? That is several acres of interlocked roadways and access roads surrounded by strip malls and hotels. Universal would have to buy some access through here, but I'm still unsure how that gets you across the interchange. Look at it on a map, that's a mess.

When you look at the maps, there really isn't a good way to do this. The Federal Govt isn't going to give them I4 right away, we all know that. I'm doubtful you could get air rights over I4 or that there is a way to go under it. I just don't see anything but a bus going straight down Universal Blvd and then up Sand Lake.

https://www.google.com/maps/@28.4630752,-81.4467773,14.5z

You need to go from the top left to basically where it says Google in the bottom center of the map. The old Wet N Wild is the triangle of land bound by the lake, Universal Blvd, and International Drive. You can see the huge interchange problem where it says W Sand Lake Rd.

 

[embracejg]

So buses it is. That's how most WDW transportation works. Don't see why Universal would have to waste time, money and political capital on a seemingly impossible plan to build over a major highway.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Comcast would go to the local and federal agencies and ask for the world...it doesn't make sense not to...

But they would of course have a backup plan...

Connecting two universal properties...creating the second largest theme park complex in the world...benefits the locals tremendously...including forcing disney to build.

From the tone of the last 20 years...disney can't stop these things anymore...if feasible.

I-4 is a mess/problem though...

 

[sachilles]

Isn't I-4 at the early stages of a full overhaul?

 

[amberpi]

Just to put the land and Universal's plans in perspective. They are currently looking at 1 new park, 3-4 new resorts, and a second City Walk type area.

Holy crap! What!? Where will they get the labor? I thought the labor was a huge issue on additional gates? Tell me I'm wrong, I'd love for more gates!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Isn't I-4 at the early stages of a full overhaul?

...that's scheduled to happen in May...