WDW and DL Pirates to change Redhead scene

[4Hawks]

"politically correct" is as apolitical as "deplorables," which is why it's fine to say that only deplorables are upset about these changes. Cue the countdown to the "Make Pirates Great Again" hats.

By the way, calling someone a deplorable can seem as reductive and offensive as calling someone a female. You might be deplorable, but this does not define you.

I have no idea which side of this debate you're on...but I love your wit

 

[rteetz]

I think it's time for @rteetz to close this thread. As he has said elsewhere,


Of course, if we want to believe that

then let the rumors continue!

I think this has been a healthy discussion for the most part. There are two sides to this and really no middle. I respect everyone's opinions on this matter. This is not a political discussion so there is no reason to close the thread at this time.

 

[earfulofmagic]

But how to do you know this is an update rather than changing the scene to be PC or something like that? Disney will spin it as an update because duh why wouldn't they. They spin everything they do as something good.

Because they rarely do things like this *just* to be PC. I think the change likely has an element of modernizing the ride and attitudes toward women, but still, profit-driven with movie tie-ins and room for expansion of future movies. It costs a lot to shut down and redo ride scenes. Unless it's reaaaally blatantly offensive, I doubt they would go through all of this if that were the sole reason.

They can wonder that sure but that again doesn't mean Disney has to add more movie tie ins. Future guests can enjoy the ride just as much as is without more movie tie ins it's that simple.

You don't know with certainty that future guests will like the ride without movie tie-ins. Actually, they may like the ride--but maybe they don't understand why it's different from the movie. Maybe people were commenting how great it'd be with more movie tie-in. Again--Disney will do what it wants, and if an immersive theme park experience with more movie tie-ins is their direction, then so be it. How do little kids feel about Country Bear Jamboree today? I liked that movie as a kid. Is it still a hot film and hot attraction?

There are people even before this thread I have seen point it out.

Enough to rival HoP backlash? Enough to overwhelm Disney to change this ride for one reason and one reason only?

Yes a lot of what Disney does is profit based and it's unfortunate because today's Disney execs are looking at the short term rather than long term. They are going to keep pushing more things like IP redos of rides and such because that sells merchandise. Merchandise isn't what it's all about. At some point they need to look at theme and story in a THEME park.

Eh, whatever. They will always need to depend on a blend of both (not going to argue on the percentage of each, but they need both). Plenty of things in the parks still that aren't strictly movie-based. Although my guess is that future movie overlays will continue to do well because people LOVE IP--give them what they want, and if they keep going, Disney will keep giving. *If* the parks before this truly were not predominantly IP-based, it's a fine experiment at least for now to see if more movie tie-ins across the park will increase profit.

As far as business, merchandise is a huge part of what it's all about. Who cares if you pay $100 or whatever to enter MK and ride rides? Not the execs and shareholders. They make money off of guests buying food and merch during their time in park. Of course merchandise is huge--can't blame a business for wanting to capitalize on a tactic that continues to work.

 

[rteetz]

Because they rarely do things like this *just* to be PC. I think the change likely has an element of modernizing the ride and attitudes toward women, but still, profit-driven with movie tie-ins and room for expansion of future movies. It costs a lot to shut down and redo ride scenes. Unless it's reaaaally blatantly offensive, I doubt they would go through all of this if that were the sole reason.



You don't know with certainty that future guests will like the ride without movie tie-ins. Actually, they may like the ride--but maybe they don't understand why it's different from the movie. Maybe people were commenting how great it'd be with more movie tie-in. Again--Disney will do what it wants, and if an immersive theme park experience with more movie tie-ins is their direction, then so be it. How do little kids feel about Country Bear Jamboree today? I liked that movie as a kid. Is it still a hot film and hot attraction?



Enough to rival HoP backlash? Enough to overwhelm Disney to change this ride for one reason and one reason only?



Eh, whatever. They will always need to depend on a blend of both (not going to argue on the percentage of each, but they need both). Plenty of things in the parks still that aren't strictly movie-based. Although my guess is that future movie overlays will continue to do well because people LOVE IP--give them what they want, and if they keep going, Disney will keep giving. *If* the parks before this truly were not predominantly IP-based, it's a fine experiment at least for now to see if more movie tie-ins across the park will increase profit.

As far as business, merchandise is a huge part of what it's all about. Who cares if you pay $100 or whatever to enter MK and ride rides? Not the execs and shareholders. They make money off of guests buying food and merch during their time in park. Of course merchandise is huge--can't blame a business for wanting to capitalize on a tactic that continues to work.

Either way neither of us know the true motives. Rare still means it's possible.

I'm 19, I love CBJ. I'm a rare WDW lover compared to my teen guy counterparts. Of course we don't know whether future generations will like pirates as it is but they certainly could like it.

People also love Haunted Mansion, BTMRR and Space, all non-IP based.

I don't mind IP as long as it sticks with a theme for an area or park. Gaurdians and Frozen in Epcot don't do that. That is for another thread tho.

 

[earfulofmagic]

Either way neither of us know the true motives. Rare still means it's possible.

Sure.

I'm 19, I love CBJ. I'm a rare WDW lover compared to my teen guy counterparts. Of course we don't know whether future generations will like pirates as it is but they certainly could like it.

Eh, I asked about little kids in particular, but sure. My understanding is that people generally feel this attraction is "a joke" or unpopular. Either way, it is a fine example of how perhaps a movie without much staying power = not such a great attraction, and how multiple-film franchises (POTC) with a ride could be better.

People also love Haunted Mansion, BTMRR and Space, all non-IP based.

Yeah. Again, they'll always need a blend of non-IP and IP.

I don't mind IP as long as it sticks with a theme for an area or park. Gaurdians and Frozen in Epcot don't do that. That is for another thread tho.

Sure. I also hope Guardians doesn't take over, but it is what it is.

 

[rteetz]

Sure.


Eh, I asked about little kids in particular, but sure. My understanding is that people generally feel this attraction is "a joke" or unpopular. Either way, it is a fine example of how perhaps a movie without much staying power = not such a great attraction, and how multiple-film franchises (POTC) with a ride could be better.


Yeah. Again, they'll always need a blend of non-IP and IP.


Sure. I also hope Guardians doesn't take over, but it is what it is.

My CBJ experience on June 1st had the theater full. The attraction isn't based on the movie either. The attraction originated at Disneyland before WDW opened. It was first planned for Walt's ski resort.

The non-IP is growing smaller and smaller.

 

[earfulofmagic]

My CBJ experience on June 1st had the theater full. The attraction isn't based on the movie either. The attraction originated at Disneyland before WDW opened. It was first planned for Walt's ski resort.

The non-IP is growing smaller and smaller.

So it is still an extremely popular attraction then! Does it have AC? Is it FP+? How long are the wait queues? I need to make sure my SO doesn't miss it. Also, that's right! Then that's an example of a movie based off an attraction that isn't... necessarily at the top of popularity/favorites/re-watch lists

maybe they'll open more non-IP. The best thing you can do, besides complaining to Disney, is "voting" with your dollar. And since that is probably unthinkable for most of the people on these boards, then you'll have to make it known (to Disney) you dislike the IP creeping.

 

[rteetz]

So it is still an extremely popular attraction then! Does it have AC? Is it FP+? How long are the wait queues? I need to make sure my SO doesn't miss it. Also, that's right! Then that's an example of a movie based off an attraction that isn't... necessarily at the top of popularity/favorites/re-watch lists

maybe they'll open more non-IP. The best thing you can do, besides complaining to Disney, is "voting" with your dollar. And since that is probably unthinkable for most of the people on these boards, then you'll have to make it known (to Disney) you dislike the IP creeping.

Yes it has AC but no FP. Shows run like every 20 minutes or so.

 

[LSLS]

It came because why else would they change this specific scene? I'm all for plussing and making things better but there are numerous other rides that need it more than pirates.

I honestly buy the idea that they want to make the redhead a central figure in a scene. Getting girls into pirates could be big business, and it is already starting to occur on the cruises (pirate night at the BBB). If they want to make a scene dedicated to a woman pirate, the redhead would make the most sense. And if you do that, you can't have a scene where she is being sold off.

Lets face it, people would freak out if any scene was completely changed. However, as others have said, they can keep the famous line with this scene easily and which it sounds like is what upsets people as much as anything. Then they get their female pirate while keeping the dialogue. All this talk about PC, I do not buy. I have never heard a complaint on this before, and the timing of this coming out right after the new Pirates movie makes me think the motivation has little to do with being PC. To be honest, if it was about being PC, this would have happened years ago when the girls at the school in Somalia (may have the country wrong, but think that is where it was) were all kidnapped. If there is one thing about Disney under Iger, the number one concern is the bottom line. I think it makes a ton more sense that they see dollar signs on a woman pirate lead, and they could care less about PC. But I guess who really knows.

 

[amberpi]

This could just be the movies influencing the ride...we don't know what the next installation could hold. I think they'd have a hard time including an auction of human beings in a movie - I mean, it could, but an awesome new pirate captain would have a lot more possibilities. "We want the red head" as a mob of pirates choose a new captain would be a GREAT use of that line.

 

[rteetz]

This could just be the movies influencing the ride...we don't know what the next installation could hold. I think they'd have a hard time including an auction of human beings in a movie - I mean, it could, but an awesome new pirate captain would have a lot more possibilities. "We want the red head" as a mob of pirates choose a new captain would be a GREAT use of that line.

Do we know if they will even make another? I've heard this could've been the last at least the last with Johnny Depp.

 

[TwoMisfits]

So, did everyone see how much money, especially domestically, that Pirates 5 did not make? And did everyone see what Johnny Depps' reception was in that movie?

I think I agree with both sides in this debate...Disney saw a spot in an attraction where they could be more PC AND where they could take a pre-existing character (the Red Head) and make her the star of the scene, even more than she is...and then what happens? Why, of course, you introduce her in a huge role in the last Pirates movie with Johnny Depp, Pirates 6 (ala Wonder Woman in BvS) and then you create an entire new trilogy with her as the lead character, who already got love from the fans...she's in the attraction already, so she wasn't "pushed in to make it fit", she's the memorable one (everyone knows the red head line), and they probably even have an actress in mind for the role and future toy lines...

This is cynical me talking, but 2 birds, one big stone is kinda obvious here...

 

[earfulofmagic]

Do we know if they will even make another? I've heard this could've been the last at least the last with Johnny Depp.

Perfect. If that's true, that's great. Make a spin-off series with Scarlett as the new protag. No, we don't know whether they will make another film, just like truly none of us know anything about this. Always opportunity for TV shows (egh), spin-off films and merch galore, though!

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Next time I will just say "I think it's funny that political correctness is still being pointed to as the sole driving force behind this change when we don't have any evidence of it." I hope that will be less confusing.

Ok...

 

[amberpi]

Do we know if they will even make another? I've heard this could've been the last at least the last with Johnny Depp.

I thought this was the last with JD, so a new character could be part of the plan. I was just speculating, I have no idea, but I do think its plausible. I by no means know any insider anything about WDW. I just know how I like to do the parks

 

[HopperFan]

I think it's time for @rteetz to close this thread. As he has said elsewhere,


Of course, if we want to believe that

then let the rumors continue!

Yeah, gone for awhile and come back to a cluster. Getting a bit too personal here.

It's a ride at a theme park ..... life optional.

 

[likesdisney]

Will be visiting Disney in November, will I be able to get to the ride before they change things?

 

[rteetz]

Will be visiting Disney in November, will I be able to get to the ride before they change things?

Changes won't happen until 2018.

 

[Roxyfire]

Yeah, gone for awhile and come back to a cluster. Getting a bit too personal here.

It's a ride at a theme park ..... life optional.

Yeah I gotta say, there's been some pointed name calling particularly toward those explaining why they are in favor of the change. I'm not really surprised, there's Disney fans from all walks of life. But I always kinda hope someone would put themselves in another person's shoes and wonder where they're coming from just a little more. Why is it all of a sudden bad that people want a little more consideration toward others? Even if I don't agree with someone's point of view, I want to understand it and not completely dismiss it.

Getting back to the ride, I'm almost certain that they have some "trouble spots" within the many rides and attractions at Disney Parks they eventually they might want to change or update in the future. Many of those identified here in this thread. People can "what about" all day, but today it's this. Tomorrow it might be something else. And you can't shelter everyone from every bad thing but you can find where the line of questionable begins. People can say "oh this doesn't offend me" all day long but that one datapoint doesn't mean a whole lot.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Very much offended by them, yes (to be specific, I believe women who say they are abused and I find it horrendous.) Johnny Depp is a disturbing person for this reason and it colors my perception of him, and the ride TBH. Seeing him in it gives me the creeps now.

He's never been all that mainstream and respectable, but even so, I don't base my appreciation on movies on the character of the actors that portray fictional characters. I base it on their acting ability. Otherwise, I would never go see movies or anything else. Lindsey Lohan, Brad Pitt, J.Lo, Tom Cruise, Ashton Kutcher... the list goes on. I appreciate some of their work but that doesn't mean I hold them to any kind of moral standard. Heck, people are reeling over the Cosby case but I've heard some of the man's stand up comedy from decades ago. I wasn't surprised at all by the accusations. Like a lot of comedians, he's not actually a very wholesome person. He isn't, and never was, Cliff Huckstable.

I don't really get it when people criticize celebrities for not being "good people". They're not good people by and large. They're just people. Talented, sure, but that doesn't make them good people. It's like the people who hold Disney to absurd standards. They're a corporation. They want to make money. They'll try to get away with unethical crap to do so until someone calls them on it.

I think this is more about monetizing the red head. She's popular; I love the pin I have of her. I think it was probably a little problematic for the marketing department to increase her role in the ride as a prostitute- which is what she was. They saw a chance to make money. Making her a pirate makes her a strong female character along the lines of Annie Oakley. That right there could be their sole reason for the change to the story line. At the same time, they eliminate something that might be problematic in the future (good PR), update the ride for more modern audience, and still avoid a significant overhaul that would really change people's experience. Because, come on, I know some of you are upset about this, but other than a small percentage of people who really like that scene, no one is even going to notice the change much. I'm seeing an all around win for Disney here.