What is the current 2042 status on existing points?

[Sandisw]

yeah -- I have 50 DEC points at BCV that I've already assumed will just get poofed. Won't be happy about it -- but that last year is definitely going to get wonky.

Well, you can start maybe 5 years from end beginning to borrow so that maybe be the last few years what would be left would be minimal!

 

[ziravan]

Well, you can start maybe 5 years from end beginning to borrow so that maybe be the last few years what would be left would be minimal!

I can tell you 21 yrs out that I’m gonna have absolute no problem sliding into 2042 in borrow mode.

 

[Sandisw]

I can tell you 21 yrs out that I’m gonna have absolute no problem sliding into 2042 in borrow mode.

You’ll probably want to start before then, but like I said, they can suspend it, and I bet the last few years, they do!

 

[MickyLynn]

Is there a resource other than searching the OC site that would have the original lease and the extension? I've never been clear on why people think extending the ground lease extends the building leases.
If its pinned somewhere I haven't found it and my copies aren't handy.

 

[ziravan]

You’ll probably want to start before then, but like I said, they can suspend it, and I bet the last few years, they do!

Already started!

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Is there a resource other than searching the OC site that would have the original lease and the extension? I've never been clear on why people think extending the ground lease extends the building leases.
If its pinned somewhere I haven't found it and my copies aren't handy.

It's because of how the building lease is tied to the ground lease. It's not a "people think." It is how it works.

 

[condorthb]

I believe it is $165

Any idea of the going rate/pt.?

I git the 2057 in 2017 for $80/point.

 

[skier_pete]

My predictions on what will happen. This is with zero inside knowledge, as my guess is Disney has no plan in place yet - and likely won't until at least 2032. i should say this is likely what I would do if I were Disney.

OKW - extensions to 2057 will be offered to existing owners again. This will likely happen about 5 years prior to expiration - but it won't be $25 a point like last time. Any contracts that expire will be offered for sale at a minimal price (Say $75 a point for the remaining 15 years.)

BRV-WL - extensions will be offered to match the CCV - WL resort end date (2068?) so that the resort can someday be combined into a single unit. Again this will likely happen about 5 years before expiration. Those that don't accept the extensions will again be sold with a shorter end date at a lower price.

HHI and VB will be sold off to other hotel management systems (think Marriot). Disney will likely get out of that market completely.

BCV and BWV owners will not be offered the opportunity to extend. BCV and BWV will be reclaimed by DVC, refurbished, points increased by 50-75% per room, and the resorts will be resold as new. Existing owners may get a nominal discount. But we are talking like 10% off the $350 / per point price that Disney will be offering the resort for sale. Many owners will be upset, but the resorts will sell out quickly.

 

[MickyLynn]

It's because of how the building lease is tied to the ground lease. It's not a "people think." It is how it works.

Perhaps it is more accurate to say that having not read the original or extension I don't know which clauses are the basis for the argument that that's "how it works". Until it is adjudicated or settled everything is theoretical. I mean, that's why we keep discussing it, right?

 

[ziravan]

Since BCV was originally sold as a 40 yr resort before they stated moving dates back to give all resorts 50 yrs, basic fairness would mean giving BCV a 10 extension to 2052.

Not saying that will happen, just that it should.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Until it is adjudicated or settled everything is theoretical. I mean, that's why we keep discussing it, right?

The question really becomes if the way the original extension was done - which was all wrong, seriously - is legally defensible. It was opt-out, which is the first wrongness. The land lease issue is a second piece. Then there's if heirs of original 2042 contracts who didn't own in 2007 have any basis to protest. The last piece is if the contract on the buildings to the point owners are airtight enough to allow extension of the land lease while having their ownership expire.

There are layers and layers.

 

[Sandisw]

Since BCV was originally sold as a 40 yr resort before they stated moving dates back to give all resorts 50 yrs, basic fairness would mean giving BCV a 10 extension to 2052.

Not saying that will happen, just that it should.

You are right, it won’t happen because those contracts legally end in 2042 and they have zero incentive to change that.

 

[jarestel]

Though it's difficult to know for sure, I suspect the number of OKW owners who refused to sign the quit claim paperwork is probably quite small, maybe even approaching insignificant. It's not likely they will be of much concern to DVD in 2042, one way or the other.

 

[Sandisw]

Though it's difficult to know for sure, I suspect the number of OKW owners who refused to sign the quit claim paperwork is probably quite small, maybe even approaching insignificant. It's not likely they will be of much concern to DVD in 2042, one way or the other.

I thought I read somewhere that they only recently filed those who extended or signed the quit claim, and it was less than 50%..that even included points which have been sold direct.

Of course, we are 20 years away still, so by then, who knows since every contract sold resale signs.

 

[jarestel]

I thought I read somewhere that they only recently filed those who extended or signed the quit claim, and it was less than 50%..that even included points which have been sold direct.

Of course, we are 20 years away still, so by then, who knows since every contract sold resale signs.

I read that also, but I'm thinking the question at the time of the extension was sign on for $X per point or sign a no thanks letter. Internet conspiracy theories about getting free extensions by refusing to sign weren't prevalent at the time so I don't think many folks were even thinking about that.

And I also recall that DVC offered a small compensation for the "trouble" of returning the documents so it doesn't seem logical that such a large number of folks, many of whom would be too old to care what happens in 2042, would refuse to return the documents. And as DVC members, when someone waves a few dollars under our noses, we do tend to sit up and take notice.

Speculations about topics like this are always interesting, but I usually tend to think the most obvious and likely answer is usually the correct one so I would have serious doubts about the claims that only 50% of the original OKW owners have signed the quit claims.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

OKW had an opt out for the extension. Owners had to send a notorized opt out. It wasn't just "lack of action means no."

 

[Sandisw]

I read that also, but I'm thinking the question at the time of the extension was sign on for $X per point or sign a no thanks letter. Internet conspiracy theories about getting free extensions by refusing to sign weren't prevalent at the time so I don't think many folks were even thinking about that.

And I also recall that DVC offered a small compensation for the "trouble" of returning the documents so it doesn't seem logical that such a large number of folks, many of whom would be too old to care what happens in 2042, would refuse to return the documents. And as DVC members, when someone waves a few dollars under our noses, we do tend to sit up and take notice.

Speculations about topics like this are always interesting, but I usually tend to think the most obvious and likely answer is usually the correct one so I would have serious doubts about the claims that only 50% of the original OKW owners have signed the quit claims.

But the article was based on recorded information with OC comptroller so it was based on actual ownership information. .

Getting things notarized and sent back isn’t always easy, so I’d be More inclined to think that number is accurate.

 

[zavandor]

You’ll probably want to start before then, but like I said, they can suspend it, and I bet the last few years, they do!

They might suspend banking, as each banked point into the 2041 UY causes a point to expire. But borrowing, probably not. If a few points are borrowed and prevent a room to go into breakage, that opens availability for the final UY.
Of course it would be in the interest of DVC to increase breakage as they directly profit from it, so maybe they'll actually suspend borrowing too. It would be a questionable move and something that might cause quite a bit of complaints.

 

[Sandisw]

They might suspend banking, as each banked point into the 2041 UY causes a point to expire. But borrowing, probably not. If a few points are borrowed and prevent a room to go into breakage, that opens availability for the final UY.
Of course it would be in the interest of DVC to increase breakage as they directly profit from it, so maybe they'll actually suspend borrowing too. It would be a questionable move and something that might cause quite a bit of complaints.

But how would allowing borrowing increase breakage? Borrowing also puts too many points into the system for rooms available. it works now because banking is there to help the offset,

I think that is why they will suspend the last few years of both so that demand is evened out as best they can, Complaints will happen for sure, but because they can, people won’t really be able to do anything.

I know I plan to pretty much start that with my BWV contract!

 

[jarestel]

But the article was based on recorded information with OC comptroller so it was based on actual ownership information. .

Getting things notarized and sent back isn’t always easy, so I’d be More inclined to think that number is accurate.

It was based on recorded information that someone was able to search out, and I don't think the researcher ever presented the results as any kind of definitive conclusion. We don't know how many deeds Disney has not filed yet since it apparently took them 10 years to file the ones so far.

I'm not saying I'm right or you're wrong, just that when it comes to Disney, they are not exactly forthcoming with a lot of information. So these kinds of speculation threads tend to abound all over the DISBoards.