Whiney letter that I'm sending to WDW about access...

[cmwade77]

The attractions at any of the parks built before the ADA came into effect were built for efficiency with people walking on. Most queues were designed to start out large and get smaller and smaller the closer you get to the boarding area (like a funnel). This delivers a single file line for orderly boarding.
They were also designed for efficiency in unloading, so many attractions have boarding from one side of the ride vehicle and unloading at the same spot, but on the other side.
Very efficient for people walking on with no wheelchairs, but causes all sorts of problems for people using wheelchairs.

New rides/attractions have to be built to comply with the guidelines that I posted earlier in the thread. That includes some things about the width of the queues, the size of the wheelchair area and the design of wheelchair accessible ride cars. The 'common wheelchair' that is used in the definition is not necessarily the size or shape of most wheelchairs being used. So, there are some attractions, even with ride cars, where the wheelchair an individual person uses won't fit.
The guidelines are also minimums - the same way the minimum guidelines for wheelchair accessible stalls come up with wheelchair stalls that a wheelchair won't actually fit into.

Whether renovated attractions have to comply depends on what was done.
If they change the actual loading or unloading area, they have to comply. Most things other than that are considered 'cosmetic' and they are not required to comply (at least from my interpretation.
The work that was done recently on Pirates was cosmetic. They did not change the load or unload areas or the design of the boats at all.

The work done on Imagination (when they switched from the original attraction to the first renovation) heavily involved the load and unload area, since the old load/unload area is part of the shop now.

The work changing Mr. Toad's Wild Ride to the Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh was cosmetic as far as the loading/unloading goes. The ride car was considerably re-designed though (Mr. Toad's cars were more like Snow White's with a different theme. Winnie the Pooh's bounce and do 'extra' things like simulate floating.

The recent renovation on Haunted Mansion was cosmetic. I haven't seen the new ride cars yet, but from what I have heard they have upgrades in the sound system. That would be cosmetic too.

There is also another little clause in there about 'feasibility'. Even if the whole ride is totally renovated, it is not required that they meet the guidelines if it's not feasible.

There are some situations where I don't think they were 'required' to make any changes, but they did. The best example of that is Jungle Cruise.

I haven't read the pool regulations at any detail, so I don't know what kind of changes would 'trigger' the requirement for adding accessibility. I did look at them when OKW got a totally renovated pool with a slide to see whether they would be required to put in a zero entry feature and it appeared to me that they would not (and the pool doesn't have zero entry).
I expect there is some 'cosmetic renovation' clause in there too, so much of the work done on pools is actually cosmetic. I also know that they have added 'bump steps' to most pools over the years. Those are an access method listed in the pool guidelines. They work for some people (not at all for my DD, and many other people). I don't see that it would be that difficult to add pool lifts, but if the law doesn't require them..........

I have to assume that most of the pools were built after the ADA, such as:
Pop Century
All Star Resorts
Grand Floridian
Board Walk
Animal Kingdom Lodge

Just to name a few, ADA isn't that new of a law, these should indeed be addressed, I am lucky that I can handle the current methods of entry and exit, but I am sure there are many that can't and for them this should be looked into, as well as access at the Water Parks, there is a lot we can do with technology and have it be feasible that we couldn't have done 20, 15, 10 or even 5 years ago. These need to be looked at on an ongoing basis as to what is feasible and what isn't, I have come up with ways to make wheelchair accessible vehicles feasible on Pirates of the Caribbean, Most Roller Coasters and many other attractions that currently do not have one, it would be easy to add to Snow White as well. On Splash mount you could make a log that easier to transfer in and out of, thanks to improved water tight seals that we now have, some of which are being use in waterproof digital cameras, which require that you be able to open and close different compartments, obviously it would have to be on a larger scale, but you get the idea.

 

[SueM in MN]

On Splash mount you could make a log that easier to transfer in and out of, thanks to improved water tight seals that we now have, some of which are being use in waterproof digital cameras, which require that you be able to open and close different compartments, obviously it would have to be on a larger scale, but you get the idea.

Or the waterproof seals they have on the new tubs that have doors.

 

[shovan]

I work in designing buildings and I can guarantee you that the ADA guidelines are the law in California and Florida, note that you can choose to exceed those guidelines, if you fail to meet them, you can be sued by those affected and shut down by the state. Unfortunately those that need the equal access that he ADA provides usually do not have much money, let alone can they afford to go up against Disney and the respective cites, counties and states won't due anything for fear of losing the tax money. All that being said, Disney actually has among the best access out of any of the companies that I have seen to date, they really do go out of their way, could they do more? Yes! Should they do more? Yes! But let's give credit where credit is due, they do a lot to try to accommodate all of their guests.

My question is : Have the ADAAG guidelines for RECREATIONAL FACILITIES been enacted as law? In particular the previous guidelines that Sue posted for park ride access & the one I posted concerning pool access. We have done a ton of searching but are still unclear as to whether or not these are just suggested guidelines are actually the law. If it has in fact been enacted as law, then maybe a class action suit would be in order?

 

[BroganMc]

Boarding there is still not easy, similar to climbing over the side of a tub, but it is doable for some people who could not do the 'step down'.

I've been told about that. That's why I said "and/or". Stepping down or stepping over are the same thing for me. It means someone must lift me (actually easier to do if they can just "drop me" down). Not something I need to do with ordinary cars, even fancy sports cars. A door that actually opened would make this ride feasible for so many more people. Kinda silly that a ride based on a car's test drive doesn't even have the functionality of a car.

 

[BroganMc]

Animal Kingdom Lodge

AKL was built in '98, 7 years after the ADA became law. I believe it was the first onsite resort to have a zero entry pool. The new AKV building will have another zero entry pool.

SSR (begun '04) has one, as does Grand Floridian (the new pool). I don't know about Pop Century, but shouldn't it since it was built in the last 10 years?

(We purchased DVC at the BC after being told the pool was accessible, but failing to check that ourselves.) We also included suggestions that were used at other hotels & resorts, such as portable & fixed pool lifts. My DH did get a phone call thanking him for the letter & she said she would personally see to it, that it got into the right hands. That was over a month ago.

Well technically they do have a zero entry. It's just to the kiddie pool. Frequently ablebodied salesmen (like most ABs) have no clue what a disabled person means by "accessible". That's when you learn to speak the lingo and do your own field research.

When I went on the model tour of AKV I noticed the shower was a roll-in (zero entry actually since I doubt the door is wide enough for a wheelchair). It would work fine for me, as my sales guide knows. But I still told him I highly doubt that will end up in the final model. Falls under the category of too good to be true.

I can say that after years of travel in the US (and seeing what it's like abroad), I find newer hotels tend to have the best accessibility. There's been tremendous improvement in the last 3-5 years. It's so good now that I'm more surprised when it isn't good than when it is.

 

[Schmeck]

Sue (and everyone else who added useful info) thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions! I have the ADA site bookmarked, but I have a hard time navigating through the site to get to the truly useful info. I get so bogged down by all the info on there, and get 'lost'.

Hopefully Disney will continue to give all guests the best access to their attractions of any recreational facility in the world.

 

[luvyawdw]

I think your letter was so well written, all of it. I do believe that there is modifications they can make to help many of the problems you are mentioning. It really would not be that hard.

 

[SueM in MN]

My question is : Have the ADAAG guidelines for RECREATIONAL FACILITIES been enacted as law? In particular the previous guidelines that Sue posted for park ride access & the one I posted concerning pool access. We have done a ton of searching but are still unclear as to whether or not these are just suggested guidelines are actually the law. If it has in fact been enacted as law, then maybe a class action suit would be in order?

I didn't know whether the guidelines you were talkin about were final or not.
They don't need to be enacted as law.
They are the Guidelines that tell how the ADA applies to different situations. New Guidelines are first published as "Draft" guidelines and there is a time period for comments to be made. After the comment period, the group who drafted the guidelines go back and look at the all the comments and try to come to an agreement about what the final guidelines should contain. If there is disagreement, that can take a long time.
For example, some Guidelines for Infection Control in hospitals had the draft guidelines out about 5 years before the final guidelines came out.
Draft guidelines are not enforceable, but final ones are.
From the first part of the park ride access guidelines:
The ADA Accessibility Guidelines (ADAAG) is the standard applied to buildings and facilities. Recreational facilities, including amusement park rides, are among the facilities required to comply with the ADA.

This is link to the whole recreation section of draft guidelines Published in the Federal Register on September 3, 2002.
Under the publication date, it says:
NOTE: These guidelines have not been incorporated in the Department of Justice accessibility standards and are, therefore, not enforceable.

But, further down, it says:
ACTION: Final rule.

SUMMARY: The Architectural and Transportation Barriers Compliance Board (Access Board) is issuing final accessibility guidelines to serve as the basis for standards to be adopted by the Department of Justice for new construction and alterations of recreation facilities covered by the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). The guidelines include scoping and technical provisions for amusement rides, boating facilities, fishing piers and platforms, golf courses, miniature golf, sports facilities, and swimming pools and spas. The guidelines will ensure that newly constructed and altered recreation facilities meet the requirements of the ADA and are readily accessible to and usable by individuals with disabilities.

DATES: The guidelines are effective October 3, 2002. The incorporation by reference of certain publications listed in the guidelines is approved by the Director of the Federal Register as of October 3, 2002.

That means these guidelines were in effect as of Oct 3, 2002.

But, they apply to newly constructed or renovated after that date.
That means anything before that doesn't have to comply with these standards. They have to comply with whatever was in effect at the time they were built (which may be much less).

As cmwade77 noted, the buider/owner can exceed the guidelines.
WDW probably did that when AKL probably built their zero entry pool, since I doubt zero entry pools were in the guidelines before 1998. And when they renovated Jungle Cruise to include a wheelchair accessible boat, that was more than the law required.

 

[Belle1997]

I appreciate your letter very well written. I have just returned from WDW and have noticed some problems too. I am so glad I got the GAC card. I have MS and in the heat it is extremely difficult to move and balance. So I really need my ECV. I got to the Pan ride and the girl wanted me to park it out side and stand in line.

I told her I have never had to do this and I am allowed to use alternative entrance. She was trying to tell me there was not one. I pull out my GAC and said see it says I can. Finally I was allowed up. But I waited a long time to get through because they seemed to be short a person to let me into the wheelchair holding area.

I think this is the beginning of the ECV issue getting worse. I know people use them for many reasons, but when I see someone get out of their WDW ECV and walk very fast to get in line. Then be told to stop going over the ropes makes it bad for those who really need this service.

Also I had asked for a wheelchair accessible room. I got one that was barely accessible. It had the bars but a tub. Very dangerous if your legs are not moving right. Hubby had to help me get in and out. And I could not get in and turn around with my scooter no room. So if Hubby left the room without me I was trap.

Another bad move by disney was the haunted mansion ride. The line was long and and we went around in the zig zag line no problem. But When it split to go to alternate entrance by the hearst we were stuck out in the boiling heat, sun for more than 15 minutes while those who could follow the cue were in the cdovered shade. No shade, no cover just boiling hot sun for us wheelies

Bad move Disney.

So I appreciate your letter

 

[CPT Tripss]

It's fuzzy whether the guidelines cited by Sue and published in 2002 are enforcable or not. I did a quick (not thorough) search and did not see that DOJ ever incorporated them. But there is no question that WDW is a public accommodation and needs to provide access. One would think they would meet AADAG voluntarily as protection from suit.
I'll be interested to see how they respond to Bill's excellent letter.

 

[SueM in MN]

I got to the Pan ride and the girl wanted me to park it out side and stand in line.

I told her I have never had to do this and I am allowed to use alternative entrance. She was trying to tell me there was not one. I pull out my GAC and said see it says I can. Finally I was allowed up. But I waited a long time to get through because they seemed to be short a person to let me into the wheelchair holding area.

This is what the Disney Guidebook for Guests with Disabilities says on their website:
Must be ambulatory. Guests must walk by themselves or be assisted by member(s) of their party to experience this attraction.
I think this is a change. I might be wrong, but I thought before that Peter Pan was listed as 'must transfer,' not 'must be ambulatory.
I can't check old Guidebooks because I am not home, but I will check when I get home if I remember.
I do know that there is very little space for any wheelchairs to be stored at the attraction board/unload area. They may have decided it is a danger and no longer have a 'wheelchair entrance'.

Also I had asked for a wheelchair accessible room. I got one that was barely accessible. It had the bars but a tub. Very dangerous if your legs are not moving right. Hubby had to help me get in and out. And I could not get in and turn around with my scooter no room. So if Hubby left the room without me I was trap.

Just for future reference, there are 2 types of handicapped accessible rooms. The one you got was handicapped accessible and that type is meant for someone who maybe uses an ECV or wheelchair if they are a little unsteady or can't walk long distances. Those rooms are not arranged with enough space to get around in an ECV or even a wheelchair, unless it is small.

What you need to ask for in the future is a fully wheelchair accessible room with a roll in shower. The fully wheelchair accessible room is the same size as a 'regular' room, but the room is re-arranged to make the bathroom bigger so it can have a roll in shower. That means the bedroom is a bit smaller, but those rooms usually have one King size bed so there is room to move around with a wheelchair. The turning distance allowed for a wheelchair has to be at least 5 feet. I don't know how much room your ECV needs to turn, but if it is 5 feet or less, you will be able to turn it in the room.

 

[SueM in MN]

It's fuzzy whether the guidelines cited by Sue and published in 2002 are enforcable or not. I did a quick (not thorough) search and did not see that DOJ ever incorporated them.

It's actually in the text of the link I posted.
It does say "Final" in one of the early paragraphs and as you read the information, there are comments and then responses to the comments that are listed as "Final".

But, they can only be enforced for things built or substantially changed after the date of the final approval. Even all the recent changes to Haunted Mansion would be considered 'cosmetic'.
Having been on HM now since the change I can confirm that they did not change the load or unload area. I believe they made some changes to the 'transfer' doombuggy to make a sliding transfer easier. The transfer doombuggy and area where you board and unload from it do seem to fit the guidelines; there is no requirement in the guidelines that would require all rides to have a ride car that holds a wheelchair.

 

[shovan]

Thanks Sue for checking further into that!!! I'm with CPT Tripss on that I'm still a bit confused about how enforcable the guidelines are.

It has been almost 2 months since we sent the letter regarding the pool access & still no word. So that is very discouraging. (Other than went it was received, we got a call saying they would be sure to get it to the right people.) We spent weeks working on that letter it was so thorough citing the ADAAG directly, etc.. Very discouraging!

 

[dclfun]

Inspired by Bill's letter I decided to write about our experience with my lost medical equipment at WL ( when in reality it wasn't lost but no one could find it in the bell services luggage room ) and my son's ruined birthday at the end of his wish trip. I wonder if I'll hear back from anyone? I basically said that they need to prevent this issue in the future. Bill....can you let us know what response you get to your letter?---Kathy

 

[shovan]

Inspired by Bill's letter I decided to write about our experience with my lost medical equipment at WL ( when in reality it wasn't lost but no one could find it in the bell services luggage room ) and my son's ruined birthday at the end of his wish trip. I wonder if I'll hear back from anyone? I basically said that they need to prevent this issue in the future. Bill....can you let us know what response you get to your letter?---Kathy

Kathy, I'm so sorry to hear that the trip was ruined! What did they lose? Should I not allow BC to unload our van until our room is ready?

 

[CPT Tripss]

It's actually in the text of the link I posted.
It does say "Final" in one of the early paragraphs and as you read the information, there are comments and then responses to the comments that are listed as "Final".

But, they can only be enforced for things built or substantially changed after the date of the final approval. Even all the recent changes to Haunted Mansion would be considered 'cosmetic'.
Having been on HM now since the change I can confirm that they did not change the load or unload area. I believe they made some changes to the 'transfer' doombuggy to make a sliding transfer easier. The transfer doombuggy and area where you board and unload from it do seem to fit the guidelines; there is no requirement in the guidelines that would require all rides to have a ride car that holds a wheelchair.

OK, it's the recovering bureaucrat in me
The 2002 final regs were published by the Architectural and Transportation Barriers Compliance Board (the publication also states that ADAAG will be redone "soon"). This sets the stage for Dept of Justice to issue regs enforcing ADAAG, ADAAG as written are not enforcable. Unless and until DOJ takes that bureaucratic step (publication), enforcement is not possible. Of course, it is possible that DOJ has adopted ADAAG as it existed at some time and any future changes - I just didn't find it.

Here's the requirement (from the rule) for access to rides . . . lots of "or" - I don't think it's unfair for advocates to ask WDW to provide both wheelchair and transfer seats/cars on most rides even though not technically required.

15.1.2*. Alterations to Amusement Rides. A modification to an existing amusement ride is an alteration subject to 15.1 if one or more of the following conditions apply:

1. The amusement ride’s structural or operational characteristics are changed to the extent that the ride’s performance differs from that specified by the manufacturer or the original design criteria; or

2. The load and unload area of the amusement ride is newly designed and constructed.

15.1.3 Number Required. Each amusement ride shall provide at least one wheelchair space complying with 15.1.7, or at least one amusement ride seat designed for transfer complying with 15.1.8, or at least one transfer device complying with 15.1.9.

 

[BillSears]

I just got off of the phone with a Guest Services person from WDW. They called me back to let me know they had received my letter and that it had been read by all of the heads of the appropriate departments. Basically the phone call was a "Thank you for taking the time to write to us. We'll make sure the right people read your letter....but we're not making any promises that we'll do anything about it." type of phone call.

She mentioned my comments about the Kilimanjaro Safari ride and having to wait for it. But she really didn't understand what I was talking about. She seemed to think I was complaining about the normal wait times instead of the added wait time that wheelchair users have. She explained that the Kilimanjaro Safari was a popular ride and that waits were normal there. I told her that the normal wait didn't bother me but it's the added wait after the normal wait that did. She sort of got it but really didn't make any comments on possible improvements.

 

[dwarven1]

You should have seen the look on the girls faces when my oldest rolled up in her wheelchair to try out for the Varsity Girls Swim Team at her high school 4 years ago. They didn't even know people without use of their legs could swim.

I went to college with a man who quickly disabused me of the notion that he was particularly handicapped by the loss of the use of his legs - he won $10 from me because I didn't believe him when he said that he could wheelie in his chair from the student center to his dorm - a distance of greater than a quarter mile. He could. Taught me a great lesson, let me tell you.

I used to work with a guy with no hands - he's got basically a thumb and one finger on the right and just a thumb on the left. I watched him get very annoyed at a coworker who kept offering to do things for him... and decided that I'd keep my mouth shut and let him ask if he needed help. Must have been the right thing; we've been friends ever since. He changes his oil, does all the routine maintenance on his truck... and if he needs a "hand", he'll ask. Works for me.

Lately I've had trouble getting an accessible room with roll in shower at the resort of my choice. I have to wonder if too many people are requesting them that don't truly need them or due to the issue of accomodations for party size ( that I detest every time someone mentions the "comp" room on this message board ) just so they can get more space, or if truly there are so many more disabled guests travelling that need a roll in shower. There are many people who, as you mentioned, really need an ECV to get around WDW when they don't normally use one at home, who also then feel that they need an accessible resort room.

Kathy, I'm going through that very issue right now; I just had to reserve an ECV (I'm using Randy's Mobility) for my stay at Beach Club next week because I broke my ankle last week. I was very concerned as to whether I could get my ECV into the room - is the door wide enough, is there a place to park it - and my call to WDW has basically netted a "Sure, don't worry - the rental companies are all used to renting to WDW customers. It'll fit" response. I did request that he call BC and ask them and got the same response. I was wondering if I should be asking for a handicap accessible room but they told me that mind would be fine... I guess I'll see next Wednesday.

We also noticed that some of the guidebooks actually said that wheelchair users got 'special treatment' and sort of in a 'wink, wink, nudge, nudge' attittude, suggested renting a wheelchair for 2 kids to ride in together rather than using a double stroller.

And I'm sitting here with a legitimate injury, feeling guilty because I know that I should be able to walk up to the rides on my crutches - I'll just be using the ECV to get around. Sometimes I just don't understand people.

 

[SueM in MN]

Kathy, I'm going through that very issue right now; I just had to reserve an ECV (I'm using Randy's Mobility) for my stay at Beach Club next week because I broke my ankle last week. I was very concerned as to whether I could get my ECV into the room - is the door wide enough, is there a place to park it - and my call to WDW has basically netted a "Sure, don't worry - the rental companies are all used to renting to WDW customers. It'll fit" response. I did request that he call BC and ask them and got the same response. I was wondering if I should be asking for a handicap accessible room but they told me that mind would be fine... I guess I'll see next Wednesday.

There are 2 types of handicapped accessible rooms. Both of them have the same doors to come into the room from the hallway as the non-handicapped accessible room. The door rooms are at least 32 inches wide and an average ECV is much narrower than that - more on the order of 24 inches. I would suggest calling the company you are renting from if you have concerns. They can tell you the width of the ECV you are renting. When you call BC (or any of the other resorts), you don't actually end up talking to someone at the resort; you talk to someone at a call center, who is not at the resort.

Type one handicapped accessible room is exactly like a non-accessible room except that it has grab bars by the combination tub/shower and the toilet. The toilet is also raised seat and grab bars by it. The door to get into the bathroom may not be wide enough to get a wheelchair or ECV in and you may not have room to turn around. For most people renting an ECV, that is not that much of a problem because most can walk around the room.
Most people move some of the furniture (table and chairs to make a space to park the ECV in the room and charge it).

Type two handicapped accessible rooms are fully wheelchair accessible, with a roll in shower with grab bars, a seat you can pull down to sit for showering and a handheld shower head. They also have a raised seat toilet with grab bars and a place to park a wheelchair near it, a sink you can use while in a wheelchair. The bed is also lower, to make it easier to transfer to/from a wheelchair.
The room itself is the same size as a non-accessible room. The space is just arranged differently to make a larger bathroom that can hold a roll in shower. The space for that is 'taken' from the bedroom area, so the bedroom area is smaller and the bathroom is larger. Many of the 'fully accessible' rooms have a single King size bed so that they have enough room to get around with a wheelchair.

So, unless, you need some of the 'features' I mentioned, you probably don't want to request a handicapped accessible room. There are less of them, which means less choice of location.

 

[Eeyore's Tiara]

I appreciate your letter very well written. I have just returned from WDW and have noticed some problems too. I am so glad I got the GAC card. I have MS and in the heat it is extremely difficult to move and balance. So I really need my ECV. I got to the Pan ride and the girl wanted me to park it out side and stand in line.

I told her I have never had to do this and I am allowed to use alternative entrance. She was trying to tell me there was not one. I pull out my GAC and said see it says I can. Finally I was allowed up. But I waited a long time to get through because they seemed to be short a person to let me into the wheelchair holding area.

I think this is the beginning of the ECV issue getting worse. I know people use them for many reasons, but when I see someone get out of their WDW ECV and walk very fast to get in line. Then be told to stop going over the ropes makes it bad for those who really need this service.

Also I had asked for a wheelchair accessible room. I got one that was barely accessible. It had the bars but a tub. Very dangerous if your legs are not moving right. Hubby had to help me get in and out. And I could not get in and turn around with my scooter no room. So if Hubby left the room without me I was trap.

Another bad move by disney was the haunted mansion ride. The line was long and and we went around in the zig zag line no problem. But When it split to go to alternate entrance by the hearst we were stuck out in the boiling heat, sun for more than 15 minutes while those who could follow the cue were in the cdovered shade. No shade, no cover just boiling hot sun for us wheelies

Bad move Disney.

So I appreciate your letter

I agree with you. I have been to Disney and my husband has had to use an ecv before but this last time was bad. This time I had to use an ecv under doctor's orders and I noticed things had changed since the last time we had been there. The HM is a good example. You do get left out in the sun which is a no-no for me and others with certain diseases. Also, when we went to ride Winnie the Pooh, a CM made a snap judgement on whether or not we were really disabled. He told us to get off the ecv and walk instead of asking if we needed to be transferred into a wheelchair. I can walk for now, but may not be able to as my disease progresses. My husband, who has spine problems and heart problems, couldnt take the 40 minute wait time so he stayed outside and tried to find shade. I shouldnt have stood in line that long but didnt want to dissapoint my kids. We are considered "too young" to have health issues and I don't look disabled, unless you count the looking "Fat" from the prednisone i'm on. Maybe I just look young and lazy instead of disabled because there were a lot of CM's making snap judgements.

We saw people in wheelchairs and ecv's getting stuck behind gates, like at small world, and at elevators, think epcot, and nobody helped them. They were just stuck waiting until someone took pity on them. I am fortunate to have children with me who help me, and they started helping others once I pointed out to them the people who were getting stuck. Where were the CM's?

We got left on the monorail and circled Mk twice before someone got a ramp and got us off. We missed fireworks and EMH. My dh got hit in the head with the doors of the monorail when he tried to get someone's attention to get a ramp for us. The warning system never sounded and the door that hit him didnt retract back when it came into contact with him. It would have seriously hurt a child. When we reported it, they acted like it coulnd't have possibly happened and asked why we didnt report it when it happened. Well, umm, because THERE WASNT ANYONE THERE TO REPORT IT TOO! We told the guy who got the ramp finally to get us off, but he just shrugged and went on. And there was NOBODY else there.

Then later when lightening blew out the monorail and everyone had to be bussed (sp?) out of Epcot, we had an issue with the bus. There were other people in wheelchairs and ecv's ahead of us and you can only put so many on a bus. So we had to wait for another bus. But they pulled us out from under the canopy and sat us in the rain to wait for the next bus. I'm already sick, I don't need to get sicker guys! So we sat there and got soaked waiting for the next bus. When it came and we were loading, they managed to shut my husband, yes him again, in the doors of the bus. They had to do something to get the doors back open to get him out. It's not like they didnt know he was getting on. It could have easily been my 4 year old daughter who was getting on right before him. That would have been a very bad thing. We were able to maintain a sense of humor about most of these things, but agree that if it had been one of my children hurt I wouldn't have been so good humored.

The first day I rode the ecv, I cried the whole time. Then I decided I was just going to smile really big at everyone I saw. This worked because most people smiled back and it lifted my spirits. I have to admit I didnt smile at the rude CM at Pooh.... I think the people at Disney need to ride around on an ecv or in a wheelchair and see what needs to be fixed. Then they need to work on the attitudes of the CM's working there.

As for the tiki room, I never knew they only allowed 4 disabled people in until this last trip. I was on my ecv and they directed me in on it. I would have gladly given up my spot for someone else if I had known then what I found out after I was already in. One lady threw a fit, and I mean fit, because she couldn't come in with her husband on an ecv. She stared daggers at those of us already in there. That was a tough one. Disney needs to look into all of this!

I just got off of the phone with a Guest Services person from WDW. They called me back to let me know they had received my letter and that it had been read by all of the heads of the appropriate departments. Basically the phone call was a "Thank you for taking the time to write to us. We'll make sure the right people read your letter....but we're not making any promises that we'll do anything about it." type of phone call.

She mentioned my comments about the Kilimanjaro Safari ride and having to wait for it. But she really didn't understand what I was talking about. She seemed to think I was complaining about the normal wait times instead of the added wait time that wheelchair users have. She explained that the Kilimanjaro Safari was a popular ride and that waits were normal there. I told her that the normal wait didn't bother me but it's the added wait after the normal wait that did. She sort of got it but really didn't make any comments on possible improvements.

It's great that you wrote a letter! I hope something comes from it. We sent an email to guest sevices about some of the handicap issues that arose during our trip but they chose to ignore them and instead responded with a call about the silly aspects of things we listed. So, I don't think they really want to deal with this issue. Maybe if more of the people on this thread would take the time to write a letter or send an email they would take it more seriously. I hope they can fix this because it is dissapointing to me because I loved taking my kids to disney.