Whiney letter that I'm sending to WDW about access...

[luvyawdw]

I have to admit I didnt smile at the rude CM at Pooh.... I think the people at Disney need to ride around on an ecv or in a wheelchair and see what needs to be fixed. Then they need to work on the attitudes of the CM's working there.

We wrote a letter last year to Disney and did recieve a phone call back, the person we spoke with was representing the "executive offices". We had some similar issues on our last visit. Anyway, my daughter and I suggested the very same thing you just did.......Have the castmembers ride in wheelchairs or ecv, we suggested that should be part of their training. Im sure the experience could be used to improve the system they currently have. We also suggested they have a "team" on staff, that their sole purpose be this very issue. With 4 very large parks and the many resorts they have, Im sure they would be kept busy. Don't get me wrong, when we see a CM with kind attitudes we notice! It just seems that over the past few years our visits have been burdened with problems in this area. I love to see everyone enjoy Disney Some visitors need a little more help than others, I really think it should be part of the magic.
Lisa

 

[zumbergc]

I think epcot seems to be going backwards in their accesibility. The whole soarin debacle, 1 elavator, super small.

I really didn't like the new character connection wait line. I'm in an ecv. The wait was 1 hour. Well, they told me to go wait over by the side by myself, and my husband to go wait in line. They didn't have wheelchairs to transfer into, and told me the ecv was to big for the line. When my husband got near the front, I would join him in line.

I don't get how this new character connection is so unfriendly. Its brand new, and not even accesible for ecv's. Just doesn't seem fare. Waiting a few minutes by myself not a problem, but waiting an hour apart, both by ourselves, we chose to skip getting to see all the characters, it was a big disapointment.

Great letter, I hate the extra wait for KS too. We had gotten fast passes, and then had a 40 min wait at the special loading area, not fun at all. We rode at the end of the day too, no wait in the regular line, and no wait for the ecv truck, in fact we got the whole truck to ourselves. We were the last ones to ride the ecv truck. We've done ks tons of time so it was extra special.

 

[Eeyore's Tiara]

I have to admit I didnt smile at the rude CM at Pooh.... I think the people at Disney need to ride around on an ecv or in a wheelchair and see what needs to be fixed. Then they need to work on the attitudes of the CM's working there.

We wrote a letter last year to Disney and did recieve a phone call back, the person we spoke with was representing the "executive offices". We had some similar issues on our last visit. Anyway, my daughter and I suggested the very same thing you just did.......Have the castmembers ride in wheelchairs or ecv, we suggested that should be part of their training. Im sure the experience could be used to improve the system they currently have. We also suggested they have a "team" on staff, that their sole purpose be this very issue. With 4 very large parks and the many resorts they have, Im sure they would be kept busy. Don't get me wrong, when we see a CM with kind attitudes we notice! It just seems that over the past few years our visits have been burdened with problems in this area. I love to see everyone enjoy Disney Some visitors need a little more help than others, I really think it should be part of the magic.
Lisa

We do take notice of the CM's who go out of their way for us. We make sure to tell them how appreciated they are and we tell others about their kindness. It just amazes me how few of them that there are.

I think if they had to walk in the shoes of someone, or should I say ride in a wheelchair or ecv, they would change their attitutudes towards those people. It is hard to get on rides, open bathroom doors, gates, or even get food when you are on one. And if you are one of the lucky ones who can get off your ecv to walk in line or to get food then you are treated like a pariah for being able to walk.

I'm afraid that I did make a sarcastic remark to Disney when I a said I was surprised that they had so many doctors working as CM's in their resorts and parks. Because they were able to diagnose what I and others had just by looking at us.

I think epcot seems to be going backwards in their accesibility. The whole soarin debacle, 1 elavator, super small.

I really didn't like the new character connection wait line. I'm in an ecv. The wait was 1 hour. Well, they told me to go wait over by the side by myself, and my husband to go wait in line. They didn't have wheelchairs to transfer into, and told me the ecv was to big for the line. When my husband got near the front, I would join him in line.

I don't get how this new character connection is so unfriendly. Its brand new, and not even accesible for ecv's. Just doesn't seem fare. Waiting a few minutes by myself not a problem, but waiting an hour apart, both by ourselves, we chose to skip getting to see all the characters, it was a big disapointment.

Great letter, I hate the extra wait for KS too. We had gotten fast passes, and then had a 40 min wait at the special loading area, not fun at all. We rode at the end of the day too, no wait in the regular line, and no wait for the ecv truck, in fact we got the whole truck to ourselves. We were the last ones to ride the ecv truck. We've done ks tons of time so it was extra special.

Epcot is horrible with one elevator to do Soarin and the Land. It was where most of the handicapped people got stuck and those without handicaps just pushed past them and got on the elevator while the people were stuck in wheelchairs and ecv's.
We havent even tried the character connection at Epcot yet. It sounds like it was really bad though.

 

[Haley Whippet]

Quote:
"Epcot is horrible with one elevator to do Soarin and the Land. It was where most of the handicapped people got stuck and those without handicaps just pushed past them and got on the elevator while the people were stuck in wheelchairs and ecv's.
We haven't even tried the character connection at Epcot yet. It sounds like it was really bad though."
End Quote

You know I never thought of that! The one tiny elevator is not adequate!
I wonder why they don't have another entrance? Doesnt the ride end up on the ground floor? Seems like you end up going down hill inside? Couldn't they have a separate entry point for wheelchairs and ECV's? Or am I just crazy?
I have a really hard time getting into that elevator..
Deb

 

[Schmeck]

I believe the ride entrance is actually a bit bit below ground level - you go up into the Land Pavilion, but it doesn't seem like a full story, only about 5-6 feet?

When was the original pavilion built? If it was before ADA, or even before they expanded the pavilion's attractions, that could explain why the one elevator. WDW doesn't have to add any more access unless they do a major overhaul (not cosmetic) of the building.

 

[SueM in MN]

You know I never thought of that! The one tiny elevator is not adequate!
I wonder why they don't have another entrance? Doesnt the ride end up on the ground floor? Seems like you end up going down hill inside? Couldn't they have a separate entry point for wheelchairs and ECV's? Or am I just crazy?
I have a really hard time getting into that elevator..
Deb

From what I have read, there is sort of an 'emergency' entrance/exit to part of the building that Soarin is in on ground level. I don't know if that actually brings you in near the food court area or near the boarding area for Soarin, but I think it is near the boarding area. I also don't know if it brings you into a public area or a backstage CM area (which I think is where it goes).
I do know that they used it during the pre-opening sneak previews of Soarin. We were there on a day they had CM previews, so we saw them going in, but never used the entrance.
At any rate, I don't think that door will accomodate use by large numbers of people,

I have no idea why they did not add an additional elevator when the building was renovated. I can understand why they could not replace the current one wth a bigger one - that would have required structural changes on all floors. There is a 3rd floor above part of the second floor.
I don't understand why they could not add an elevator somewhere else, like between the 2 sets of steps. I guess one reason might be that would be a 'logical' place to put one, but there is a lot of cross traffic in that area which an elevator would make worse. I'm also not sure if the floor is straight there - an elevator would not work there unless it was.
They could not add one on the ramped areas of the entry for the same reason.

If they put one just where you enter the building (like straight ahead of the doors), people would probably automatically get on, whether they needed the elevator or not.

I think before deciding they didn't need to change the elevator, they really should have spent some time observing in the area. Sometimes there is a really long line for the current elevator, but thinking about it, there may not have been a lot of good options.

 

[SueM in MN]

I believe the ride entrance is actually a bit bit below ground level - you go up into the Land Pavilion, but it doesn't seem like a full story, only about 5-6 feet?

When was the original pavilion built? If it was before ADA, or even before they expanded the pavilion's attractions, that could explain why the one elevator. WDW doesn't have to add any more access unless they do a major overhaul (not cosmetic) of the building.

I think that entrance door is to the left side as you look toward that front of the building and is sort of off to the back of the new Soarin building they added. I think it is down a hill from the entrance.

The original pavilion was completed 25 years ago, so it was opened in 1982, way before the ADA.

 

[Schmeck]

After checking on live.local.com, it looks like the only accessable outside way into Soarin' from the park for guests would be over by the Imagination pavilion - there's an access road and gate there. From the left of the entry into the Land pavilion, there's a berm. After the entranceway (from inside the building?) there's a roof with a condensor unit, and a one story drop into the parking lot.

Why didn't they just have a long, circular ramp inside the buiding, that goes the entire distance from bottom to top? What happens during an evacuation if the elevator can't be used? I guess everyone down below ends up backstage?

 

[Belle1997]

Sue did we ever find out if the rules for Peter Pan ride have changed that you have to be able to walk to use it. Thanks

 

[SueM in MN]

Sue did we ever find out if the rules for Peter Pan ride have changed that you have to be able to walk to use it. Thanks

yes, we did find out.
I don't know if I posted it in this thread or somewhere else, but the newest Guidebook For Guests with Disabilities that we picked up on our trip earlier this month lists it as "must be ambulatory" and it is listed that way in their website version of the MK Guidebook too.

We did not try to go on it during our recent trip (DH had too close a call with almost running into a wall last time when trying to get DD off to ever try it again).
I did notice there is a large area with a wheelchair icon that is off to the side of the regular queue area to the left of the queue. There were no wheelchairs in it, but it appeared to be more of a wheelchair parking lot idea. From what I could see, it looked like the guest would have to park their wheelchair there and then be able to walk the rest of the way to the load/unload area - at least 20-30 feet.
I wish I had taken a picture, but it was pretty busy. I didn't look closely at the area when we were at WDW in April, so I don't know if that area is a change since April.
I do know for sure that the Guidebook is changed since April though - I don't have mine with me, but I think the date was May or July of 07 for the version.

 

[OneLittleSpark]

We went on Peter Pan when we were there in September. I went in through a separate entrance to the left (when facing the building) of the main entrance. We then sat there for a while until the CM at loading waved us forwards. I then pulled my chair up to a gate, just past the turnstile that those in the regular queue go through. This meant I was only a few steps from the moving walkway. I then got on my stick and started hobbling!

Sue, if your Guide was dated around Spring of this year, it doesn't look like they've changed the boarding procedure. They've probably just changed the wording to make it clearer. A lot of people here are perfectly able to transfer, but couldn't do Peter Pan, so they've just whacked an 'ambulatory' label on to reduce problems and disappointments.

Hope this helps people!

 

[Haley Whippet]

After checking on live.local.com, it looks like the only accessable outside way into Soarin' from the park for guests would be over by the Imagination pavilion - there's an access road and gate there. From the left of the entry into the Land pavilion, there's a berm. After the entranceway (from inside the building?) there's a roof with a condensor unit, and a one story drop into the parking lot.

Why didn't they just have a long, circular ramp inside the buiding, that goes the entire distance from bottom to top? What happens during an evacuation if the elevator can't be used? I guess everyone down below ends up backstage?

Good question, They spent a long time redoing everything for the ride, They should have redone the entrance too..
Deb

 

[SueM in MN]

We went on Peter Pan when we were there in September. I went in through a separate entrance to the left (when facing the building) of the main entrance. We then sat there for a while until the CM at loading waved us forwards. I then pulled my chair up to a gate, just past the turnstile that those in the regular queue go through. This meant I was only a few steps from the moving walkway. I then got on my stick and started hobbling!

Sue, if your Guide was dated around Spring of this year, it doesn't look like they've changed the boarding procedure. They've probably just changed the wording to make it clearer. A lot of people here are perfectly able to transfer, but couldn't do Peter Pan, so they've just whacked an 'ambulatory' label on to reduce problems and disappointments.

Hope this helps people!

Thanks, that helps.
I do think you are probably right about why they changed it to 'ambulatory'.
For someone like my DD, who can walk a short distance if someone is holding onto her, but then we have a very wriggly, excited young lady that we somehow have to make sit. There isn't enough time to do all that with a moving walkway that can't be stopped. And, because of the way the ride car is made, we can't lift her on and off easily, but possibly could if it wasn't for the moving walkway that can't be stopped.
Even with all that, getting on was do-able. It was getting off that was a problem.
So, for us, it doesn't work any more.
With the ride listed as "must transfer", I think someone in our situation would probably think they could get on. I wonder if the reason they changed it was because of complaints/disappointment or because of an incident where someone had a problem getting on or off the ride.

Why didn't they just have a long, circular ramp inside the buiding, that goes the entire distance from bottom to top? What happens during an evacuation if the elevator can't be used? I guess everyone down below ends up backstage?

I am guessing that there are probably several emergency exits on the bottom floor that go thru some backstage areas. I wish I had spent more time looking for emergency exits!
If they were doing a new building, they might have been able to make a ramp that wraps around, but one couldn't be put into the building as it is. The ramp that is there could not be changed because there are exits/entrances to the theater and the restaurant that is on the top floor.
Also, a recommended ramp is 1 foot long for each 1 inch of difference between where you are starting to where you are ending up. This is a 1:12 rise or for each 1 inch in difference, the ramp is 12 inches long. A 1:8 ramp would be 8 inches long for every one inch in difference. That makes it quite a bit steeper.
Here's a link that shows what the length of a ramp would be for different rises and shows a little more.
It also gives information about how easy the different rises are.
My guess for the ramp that is in the building is that it's probably about a 15% rise or maybe even higher because I know that our ramp in our garage at home is about 1:10 (we didn't have enough room to make it longer and less steep). The ramp in that building is quite a bit steeper than our ramp.
I don't think there would be enough room in the building for a ramp that would go all the way down.

 

[fey_spirit]

What do you do when they refuse to let you?
We ran into this on KS last year - we told him we wanted to park and enter the regular line and he wouldn't let us do it - he kept insisting that we had to go to the EVC/Wheelchair place.

Cms will usually ask if you can transfer etc. When a CM sees a WC or ECV they have to react as though the person needs accomodation. As I said they ask if you can transfer or if you can climb steps etc. if it is applicable. But they cannot start asking detailed questions about what a person's disability is or what there capabilities are beyond the simple relevant questions.

So it falls to the individual to say if a CM directs them to a certain place as they approach a ride or show, " I am parking my chair/ECV and will enter the regular line" etc.

 

[Momelie]

What happens during an evacuation if the elevator can't be used?

Unfortunately, I can tell you this from personal experience. If you are in Soarin' and the elevator quits working, they round up all ECV and wheelchair users in a group, preferably with one companion (in my case, I have two children, so they had to come, too, and boy did we get dirty looks!). When they have everybody rounded up, then they take you out the exit door by the bathrooms near Soarin' and out through the backstage area. You go about 200 yards, and wind up at the Imagination building, in front of the bathrooms for Figment. Should you have people in your party waiting for you, you must make your way back from Imagination to the front doors of the Land building, where they have assembled all who were waiting.

Or at least, that's how they did it in February.

I kept thinking that there HAD to have been a better way.....

 

[Schmeck]

Unfortunately, I can tell you this from personal experience. If you are in Soarin' and the elevator quits working, they round up all ECV and wheelchair users in a group, preferably with one companion (in my case, I have two children, so they had to come, too, and boy did we get dirty looks!). When they have everybody rounded up, then they take you out the exit door by the bathrooms near Soarin' and out through the backstage area. You go about 200 yards, and wind up at the Imagination building, in front of the bathrooms for Figment. Should you have people in your party waiting for you, you must make your way back from Imagination to the front doors of the Land building, where they have assembled all who were waiting.

Or at least, that's how they did it in February.

I kept thinking that there HAD to have been a better way.....

Well, you described just what I saw on live.local.com, the only ground-floor way out of Soarin', which is over by the Imagination pavilion. It does seem like very poor planning by Disney. Even a very long ramp around the Soarin' addition would have been better, having it go from the entrance and around the ride building down to the entrance to Soarin', (enclosed of course, not on the outside of the building!)

 

[zaksmom]

Just got back on Monday. Yes, the elevator is still the only on-stage way out of the bottom floor of The Land. We were part of the "back stage parade" when the elevator broke-down last friday. We had to be escorted. The CM would not let me push my child's wheelchair, said he had to. I think my son's was the only manual chair. The CM pushed the group to hurry -- really rushed us. Some of the people were older, our Disney Dad uses a cane. One family wanted to stay in the building and didn't want to push up the long ramp out front. The man folded and carried the wheelchair up the escalator and his wife was able to stand and hold on the the escalator railing then he was ready to help her transfer at the top. This is one area that needs a second look. Soaring is a ride that is accessible to most guests, as well as the other attractions in the land.

 

[hematite153]

What do you do when they refuse to let you?
We ran into this on KS last year - we told him we wanted to park and enter the regular line and he wouldn't let us do it - he kept insisting that we had to go to the EVC/Wheelchair place.

Yes. This is a question that I keep trying to figure out. Most attractions are fairly good about letting you transfer if you wish. However, some shows seem to interpret transfer as "stand, walk or climb stairs for 10 minutes or half a mile" which is too long for most.

After some prior bad experiences with long walks my DW stopped transferring during our trip about a year ago.

However, after reading about people being denied access to shows because of a lack of w/c seating we became more concerned about not adding to the capacity problem.

So, for our next trip we became more forceful about transferring in ways that would both work for my DW and leave seating available. We fold the chair for the monorail (to leave the w/c car and ramps for others who need them more), for the Tiki Room, at some shows, we enter, my DW gets seated and then I take the chair out, etc.

Basically, it works for us and we hope that it helps create spaces for others too.

But, Kilimanjaro Safaris remains a challenge. We had been so frustrated by the long waits on the second loading platform that we figured using the regular loading area would not only speed us up but also remove us from the obviously capacity limited separate boarding area and thus, hopefully, reduce someone else's wait time. Given the proximity of the stroller parking area, we thought this sounded like an easy idea. But....

Apparently the CMs have been told not to take w/cs in this stroller parking area. We get told that we can't do it. We've tried explaining that we don't want to wait 20 minutes to board at the separate loading platform...we either get told that the separate loading area is the only option or get told that they will take the chair but "this time only". (Once, the cm pointed to the platform and said, look there is a short line there, it will be fine. We persisted and left the chair. When we finished our ride and went to the get chair, I could still see the SAME people waiting for a truck!)

So far, we have found 2 tricks that work (at least, they've worked so far):
1. We were traveling with friends who have a 16 month old on our last trip. We said, "it's easier for us to leave the chair with the stroller" as we passed it off and before the CM said anything.
2. If my DW is able to walk a bit further then she can get out of the chair around the corner from where they are taking the strollers. If you appear to be merely pushing the chair, rather than using it, they seem to be more willing to take it.

Does anyone else have advice on other ways to get around this issue without tying up valuable seats from the second platform, or walking the whole queue?

 

[KPeveler]

Does anyone else have advice on other ways to get around this issue without tying up valuable seats from the second platform, or walking the whole queue?

I suppose you could also say that your chair cannot be tied down for *make up a reason* so you have to transfer... if you give them a reason why taking the chair would be unsafe, that may do the trick.

i would think they would encourage people to transfer if they can, given how long the wheelchair wait is... i can and will and plan to transfer on almost everything. i do not want to take my chair on to small world and other rides with wheelchair spots - i can transfer and i do not want to wait for the right vehicle... so yes i want to save the spots for others, but i also want to avoid the extra waits! (which in turn, make other people's waits longer)

 

[hematite153]

I suppose you could also say that your chair cannot be tied down for *make up a reason* so you have to transfer... if you give them a reason why taking the chair would be unsafe, that may do the trick.

i would think they would encourage people to transfer if they can, given how long the wheelchair wait is... i can and will and plan to transfer on almost everything. i do not want to take my chair on to small world and other rides with wheelchair spots - i can transfer and i do not want to wait for the right vehicle... so yes i want to save the spots for others, but i also want to avoid the extra waits! (which in turn, make other people's waits longer)

I wish that would work. Unfortunately, at KS, they want us to go to the second loading platform even to transfer, even when my DW says that she can walk the distance needed to board and get back to the chair at the end.

I agree with you about the other attractions. We ended up in the wheelchair accessible boat on La Fiesta Tour with the 3 Caballeros (even though my DW had already gotten out of the chair) and I felt guilty about it even though there was nobody anywhere in sight who needed it and even though I knew that the boat was going around whether we were in it or not.

I don't want to make the wait longer for others with fewer options!