Who is a member?

we"reofftoneverland

DIS Veteran
Joined
Aug 5, 2015
We had two experiences over the last couple of days that were... interesting. One with a guide at the SSR preview center who asked if our points were direct or resale. We have both. He commented, “I don’t care where people buy, everyone who buys is a member.” I didn’t even think about the comment until the next day when we were at the Epcot lounge and a dvc guide told us there that you are not a member unless you buy direct from Disney. I did not think about that comment either until later and thought that it was all just strange.. Like Disney doesn’t know themselves. To me obviously you are a member if you own. The entire situation Disney has created is just nonsense. To me once they have sold the membership contract it should retain the rights purchased regardless of ownership.
 

Deb & Bill

DVC-Trivia Contest, Apr-2006: Honorable Mention
Joined
Mar 20, 2000
You are a member if you own DVC points. But you need to have a blue card to have access to Membership Extras. I think they consider the Blue card as the valid card and the white electronic card doesn't get you membership extras.
Important Information about Membership Extras:


Membership Extras, such as vacation options in the Disney and Concierge Collections, certain discounts, offers, and special events are incidental benefits. These incidental benefits are subject to change or termination without notice, may require the payment of a fee and cannot be combined with any other offers or promotions. Membership Extras are also subject to availability and block-out dates may apply, including high periods of demand such as Christmas and New Year’s Day. To receive any Membership Extras, purchasers must present a valid Disney Vacation Club Membership Card along with a corresponding valid photo ID. Effective September 17, 2019, to obtain a Disney Vacation Club Membership Card, Members must accumulate a total of at least 100 Vacation Points purchased directly from Disney Vacation Development, Inc. Disney and Concierge Collections options are not available for ownership interests not purchased directly from Disney Vacation Development, Inc. after March 21, 2011, and, effective April 4, 2016, Members who have not purchased an ownership interest directly from Disney Vacation Development, Inc. will not have access to Membership Extras.
 

bobbiwoz

I'm happy to dance with you!
Joined
Aug 26, 2003
I have always found it sad that DVC only allows certain members ( the blue card members) to book the DVC member cruises. That’s even if the white card “member“ wants to pay cash. I have enjoyed the experiences of every DVC member cruise that I have been on, about 8 of them.
 
  • Sandisw

    Moderator
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    I think it’s one of those things that people use different words to mean the same thing.

    I think the guide in the lounge was implying that you buy direct to be a qualified member, but not saying it that way, Is strange.

    Again, all the changes Disney has done is marketing, plain and simple, And, for the most part, it’s worked.
     

    DebbieB

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 24, 1999
    The contract doesn’t include perks, so perks don’t legally transfer. They could take them away at any time from whoever they choose.
     

    drusba

    I went to Iowa once, and it was closed.
    Joined
    Aug 19, 1999
    The difference between a true DVC member and one that is not a true DVC member is very clear. According to DVC, this photo shows you the kind of person who would buy only from DVD and thus would be a true DVC Member entitled to all DVC rights and benefits:

    Terri-Schultz.png


    Now, according to DVC, this second photo shows you the kind of person, along with his family, that would be a typical resale purchaser of DVC and therefore not entitled to DVC rights and benefits:

    Darth-Vader-Leadership.jpg
     
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    com_op_2000

    DVC Member since '93; One Hour from WDW
    Joined
    Jul 13, 2010
    IMHO; If you bought something, did not fully do the research up front, and not understand what you were buying that is your issue.
    The DVC system is what it is and buyer beware is good advice in any major purchase.
     

    kristenrice

    NOT just an ambulance driver
    Joined
    Apr 25, 2006
    Bought direct? You are a MEMBER
    Bought resale? You are an OWNER

    I like the analogy that someone wrote (I thought it was here...maybe not)...
    A developer builds new homes in a subdivision that includes access ("membership") to a pool, club house, restaurant and golf course. If you buy your house from the builder, you get access to these amenities. Once you own your home, you are free to sell it to whomever you choose, but THAT person does NOT have access to the pool and other amenities because that was a "perk" that was offered by the original seller to the original buyer. The second-hand buyer still owns a lovely home and has full use of it, but they are not able to access the amenities that are available to the other "members" of the subdivision. If they want that access, they need to build their own home or buy one directly from the developer.
     

    JETSDAD

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jan 7, 2016
    Bought direct? You are a MEMBER
    Bought resale? You are an OWNER

    I like the analogy that someone wrote (I thought it was here...maybe not)...
    A developer builds new homes in a subdivision that includes access ("membership") to a pool, club house, restaurant and golf course. If you buy your house from the builder, you get access to these amenities. Once you own your home, you are free to sell it to whomever you choose, but THAT person does NOT have access to the pool and other amenities because that was a "perk" that was offered by the original seller to the original buyer. The second-hand buyer still owns a lovely home and has full use of it, but they are not able to access the amenities that are available to the other "members" of the subdivision. If they want that access, they need to build their own home or buy one directly from the developer.
    Both are members and are referred to as such by Disney/DVC.
     

    kristenrice

    NOT just an ambulance driver
    Joined
    Apr 25, 2006
    Both are members and are referred to as such by Disney/DVC.
    Agreed...that is how they are referred to....but resale buyers and direct buyers are not treated the same....

    ...and, just as the analogy eludes to, it is neither right nor wrong for DVC/DVD to differentiate between the two.
     

    disneynutz

    DIS Veteran
    DIS Lifetime Sponsor
    Joined
    Dec 11, 2006
    In my world, we are all owners. A member is a Disney made up thing to make some people feel special. Just like a guide is a Disney made up word for salesperson, they don't want you to think about being sold to.

    :earsboy: Bill
     

    drusba

    I went to Iowa once, and it was closed.
    Joined
    Aug 19, 1999
    IMHO; If you bought something, did not fully do the research up front, and not understand what you were buying that is your issue.
    The DVC system is what it is and buyer beware is good advice in any major purchase.
    As a BWV and AKV owner, I did full research and understand what the BWV and AKV POSs and contracts provide, and what they provide is the following; (a) both new and resale purchasers are club members; (b) every club member is entitled to use the DVC Reservation Component controlled by BVTC to make reservations at any DVC Resort not owned by the member, including any DVC Resort added to the DVC system after the member purchases; and (c) DVC will not add to the DVC system any new resort that does not have those same provisions relating to club members and their rights. In other words, if one did thorough research, read everything, and understood everything, the conclusion is that what DVC did with Riviera is a breach of its prior agreements, but as we now know, and, as DVC has expressly declared when dealing with issues concerning changes, it can make any changes it wants to make because it believes itself not bound by its prior representations.
     

    Sandisw

    Moderator
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    As a BWV and AKV owner, I did full research and understand what the BWV and AKV POSs and contracts provide, and what they provide is the following; (a) both new and resale purchasers are club members; (b) every club member is entitled to use the DVC Reservation Component controlled by BVTC to make reservations at any DVC Resort not owned by the member, including any DVC Resort added to the DVC system after the member purchases; and (c) DVC will not add to the DVC system any new resort that does not have those same provisions relating to club members and their rights. In other words, if one did thorough research, read everything, and understood everything, the conclusion is that what DVC did with Riviera is a breach of its prior agreements, but as we now know, and, as DVC has expressly declared when dealing with issues concerning changes, it can make any changes it wants to make because it believes itself not bound by its prior representations.
    Is there anything in there that allows them to update? My Rivera POS no longer carries language about BVTC, but rather refers to the multi-site POS for terms.

    So, they obviously took it out of a Rivera, but since the older resorts say that in the specific resort POS, how did they get around it, without a bigger fight? I have to imagine they found a legal way to do it?
     

    drusba

    I went to Iowa once, and it was closed.
    Joined
    Aug 19, 1999
    Is there anything in there that allows them to update? My Rivera POS no longer carries language about BVTC, but rather refers to the multi-site POS for terms.

    So, they obviously took it out of a Rivera, but since the older resorts say that in the specific resort POS, how did they get around it, without a bigger fight? I have to imagine they found a legal way to do it?
    The provisions of the prior POSs allow DVC to make some changes but it cannot make changes to material rights of members without an actual vote of the members. Also, expressly allowed was for DVC to create a new resort with any terms it wanted it to have that were contrary to the prior POSs but such a resort could not be added to the existing DVC resorts, I.e., DVC could create a DVC 2 independent from what already existed. If it had done that, the only allowed way the members from the older DVC resorts could use that new one, and owners of that new DVC resort to use the old ones, would be through an exchange program like the one with RCI.

    So basically DVC just decided to ignore the provisions of its prior POSs. It created a new DVC resort with a POS and agreements applicable to Riviera that did away with the rights of resale purchasers to reserve other resorts and then improperly added that resort to the existing DVC system despite that the prior POSs would not allow that.

    Some considered a lawsuit and one may eventually happen. The key to DVC’s move was applying the new resale restrictions only to resale purchasers after mid-Jan 2019 when the Riviera POSs took effect. Thus, all the pre-2019 owners, including resale purchasers, lacked real incentive to sue because they would not be restricted by the Riviera anti-resale provisions.
     
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    Sandisw

    Moderator
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    The provisions of the prior POSs allow DVC to make some changes but it cannot make changes to material rights of members without an actual vote of the members. Also, expressly allowed was for DVC to create a new resort with any terms it wanted it to have that were contrary to the prior POSs but such a resort could not be added to the existing DVC resorts, I.e., DVC could create a DVC 2 independent from what already existed. If it had done that, the only allowed way the members from the older DVC resorts could use that new one, and owners of that new DVC resort to use the old ones, would be through an exchange program like the one with RCI.

    So basically DVC just decided to ignore the provisions of its prior POSs. It created a new DVC resort with a POS and agreements applicable to Riviera that did away with the rights of resale purchasers to reserve other resorts and then improperly added that resort to the existing DVC system despite that the prior POSs would not allow that.

    Some considered a lawsuit and one may eventually happen. The key to DVC’s move was applying the new resale restrictions only to resale purchasers after mid-Jan 2019 when the Riviera POSs took effect. Thus, all the pre-2019 owners, including resale purchasers, lacked real incentive to sue because they would not be restricted by the Riviera anti-resale provisions.
    Thanks...so it seems because they grandfathered people in..they believe that allowed them to change it, and figured current owners would just be okay.
     

    drusba

    I went to Iowa once, and it was closed.
    Joined
    Aug 19, 1999
    ^DVC most likely had some legal advice, but that does not mean it could do what the documents did not allow it to do, simply because a lawyer said it was OK. Having been in similar positions involving a a big company that wanted to do something iffy and seeks legal advice to do it, what you very often find is a legal opinion stating little more than the company might have arguable position to support its actions, and then suggests steps like that Jan 2019 resale start date which could greatly lower the risk of being sued.
     
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    com_op_2000

    DVC Member since '93; One Hour from WDW
    Joined
    Jul 13, 2010
    As a BWV and AKV owner, I did full research and understand what the BWV and AKV POSs and contracts provide, and what they provide is the following; (a) both new and resale purchasers are club members; (b) every club member is entitled to use the DVC Reservation Component controlled by BVTC to make reservations at any DVC Resort not owned by the member, including any DVC Resort added to the DVC system after the member purchases; and (c) DVC will not add to the DVC system any new resort that does not have those same provisions relating to club members and their rights. In other words, if one did thorough research, read everything, and understood everything, the conclusion is that what DVC did with Riviera is a breach of its prior agreements, but as we now know, and, as DVC has expressly declared when dealing with issues concerning changes, it can make any changes it wants to make because it believes itself not bound by its prior representations.
    Then take Disney, Walt Disney Trading, DVC, and any other company you believe has denied you your rights to court.
     

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