Why would someone do this?

[traviesojmt]

The only people I was insulting were those who allow their children to behave in a manner that disrupts a restaurant full of diners. In this thread I have also applauded parents who have the common sense and manners to know their children's limits and respect them--for both their kids and those around them.

Of course you, as well as many others haven't bothered to read that part of the message.

Anne

Since I said that I agree with your main message, then it should be apparent that I did bother to read that part of the message. My point to you was it was possible for you to get this point across with insulting anyone. You would have a great number of suporters on this thread if you were not so aggressively rude in your stance on this subject. I would have been one of them. That was my point.

 

[dalt01]

Where on earth did I ever equate a child to a pet? Although I've seen many pets with better manners than some kids, but that's another thread.



Anne

damn the torpedos full steam ahead!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ducklite]

damn the torpedos full steam ahead!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you have anything constructive to add? It seems that you've done a lot of pot stirring without much substance.

Anne

 

[crisi]

I have a thought here... would you tolerate this behavior on a plane? You are trapped there and so are the parents, sometimes children have issues flying, their ears, etc....so we are more tolerant of that, but what if you are sitting in the seat in front of a child, who is clearly upset and kicking your chair...you look over and guess what the parents are sitting across the aisle from the children....with their earphones on listening to music or watching a movie. You on the other hand are having your seat constantly kicked and the child is yelling or whatever. How do you handle that one? Just a change of scenery, but sort of the same. Am I suppose to put up with that behavior because they are children and they are excited...I don't think so. I call the flight attendant and he/she handles it.

Planes are different.

1) You are trapped on a plane. You can remove a misbehaving child from a restaurant, you can't from a plane. (Hand me that parachute, my kid is having a tantrum)....

2) You can choose a less "fancy" restaurant. For our family, travel on anything other than a plane is impractical. Eating at someplace other than Citricos isn't impractical - in fact, with toddlers, a two hour meal at Citricos is the less practical choice.

Anne doesn't appear to have any problem with well behaved children in a signature restaurant. Nor children whose parents remove them when they become disruptive.

As to the contention that children should dine earlier, good for those parents who live on the east coast, but perhaps less practical for someone coming from Seattle for whom a 9:00 pm dinner is at 5:00 at night. Remembering time zone differences, I myself try not to judge people with kids out late (I always give them the benefit of being from the West Coast), but cranky children at any time are not pleasant for anyone - not the parents - and certainly not other diners.

Our last trip we ate with kids at both Jiko and Flying Fish. At 5:30. And our kids were six and seven and well behaved for the whole meal (or we would have packed to go - we were staying at the hotel attached, which made it easy to bolt). But our previous trip - when they were four and five - had one early dinner at Narcoosees (where they were well behaved, but I felt we were pushing it a little - dinner got a little long), and before then, we'd given up Signature dining (though we are food snobs) because we couldn't enjoy the food while being worried about a meltdown or needing to complete the meal quick enough for a three year old's attention span.

 

[calgarygary]

Where on earth did I ever equate a child to a pet? Although I've seen many pets with better manners than some kids, but that's another thread.

And as I said in my original post, WDW management DOES see some problems with parents of children who are disruptive, and ARE going to be takigns teps to make changes. What those changes will be I don't know, but I can say with some level of confidence that they will benefit those who would rather their dinner not be disturbed by parents who selfishly put their wants ahead of their childrens needs.

Anne

Is there any other way to understand your meaning when you said:

Considering that they book up a year or more in advance, I guess they won't miss you then. I think it's an excellent policy that serves their entire guest demographic quite well. And for the record, they don't allow pets either.

If your intention was not to equate children with pets, why add the "they don't allow pets either" comment? I am confident that Disney recognizes that what really takes away from the Magic are condescending, complaining, fill in your own adjective, people. You earlier mentioned that there are not many restaurants within 1/2 hr. of your home but I do believe that you would definitely feel more comfortable in exploring other options as there will always be children (and yes some of them will be out of control) at DisneyWorld. I personally feel that Arthur's 27 may be a better fit for you. As children do not seem to be on this thread to defend themselves, I think that you are more likely the person who "would scream like a banshee" if you were not to get your way than most of the overtired children that are a common site at WDW. Please pull up a trough and help yourself.

 

[tinker&belle]

Is there any other way to understand your meaning when you said:


If your intention was not to equate children with pets, why add the "they don't allow pets either" comment? I am confident that Disney recognizes that what really takes away from the Magic are condescending, complaining, fill in your own adjective, people. You earlier mentioned that there are not many restaurants within 1/2 hr. of your home but I do believe that you would definitely feel more comfortable in exploring other options as there will always be children (and yes some of them will be out of control) at DisneyWorld. I personally feel that Arthur's 27 may be a better fit for you. As children do not seem to be on this thread to defend themselves, I think that you are more likely the person who "would scream like a banshee" if you were not to get your way than most of the overtired children that are a common site at WDW. Please pull up a trough and help yourself.

Calgarygary-

I noticed you are looking forward to a special dinner at V&A. How would you feel about a screaming child there?

 

[Mackey Mouse]

Crisi...you do get it. I was just throwing out the plane scenario as something different...it is the entitlement behavior that I am talking about. I am thinking that is what Anne means as well, although I am not putting words in her mouth. Bottom line here is if your children are well behaved then by all means eat wherever you want and whenever you want, but if your children are going to act up, throw food, scream, cry, and disrupt everyone else's dining pleasure, please by all means take them out of the restaurant...

I cannot tell you the times I would take one of my children out....it was always easier to reason when she was alone with me than in a crowded restaurant with everyone looking at us. If she could behave, we went back. If she could not, my husband finished his meal with our other children and I went back to the room. It was not a sacrifice on my part, it was the right thing to do. How could I subject others to her temper.. sorry could not do it and would not.

 

[JudicialTyranny]

I fail to see where this family in question was getting any relaxation, pleasure and enjoyment. The kids were miserable and screaming.

And maybe they had planned for a while like most people. Guess what...things don't always work out as planned. So they couldn't bare to give up the ADR so they sat there miserable, the kids were miserable and the rest of the restuarant had to listen to the carrying on. Doesn't seem worth it to me.

Yeah, things don't always work out as planned. I'm sure the parents didn't plan on having the kids screaming during dinner. Being that you have to make these ADR's months in advance, they didn't know the kids would be screaming at that time - they may have not even known when they got there or when they ordered. As someone who has four young kids, I know things can go downhill quickly and with little notice.

I have some, but not much sympathy for the original poster - sorry - if I want a nice quiet dinner without kids around, a restaurant in WDW is not where I go. It's just common sense to me.

 

[ExPirateShopGirl]

To place the blame for the seemingly increased instances of families who dine with children in tantrum mode on the dining plan is rather simplistic. Many families find it a great way to cut the overall cost of an already expensive vacation, my own family included.

We learn table (and other) manners at home first. It makes no difference where we dine, manners are manners, even at McDonalds. Children who learn what is and is not acceptable at the dining table are equipped to dine anywhere, including the U.S. Ambassador's residence at the embassy in Madrid. They have no dining plan, BTW However, while children can learn anything, they are still children, and lack the emotional maturity to overcome fatigue and over-stimulation. Parents need to respect their limitations and plan their schedules accordingly. It's as simple as that. While I don't appreciate a screaming child next to me, I have compassion for the young mother who is struggling to calm her toddler when she herself probably feels like crap and may be trying to formulate a plan to get back to their resort at the other end of WDW while knowing her other kids STILL have to be fed and that staying put is the fastet way to get food in their stomachs. Yes, they might have chosen a restaurant better suited to their family's needs.... but for whatever reason they didn't. It's not my business to know... and it's not an excuse to call these people childish names... hopefully the incident is a lesson for them as parents.

Perhaps an even deeper cause is that families don't use the dinner table to connect socially and interact with one another. We use our table time to discuss what the best parts of our day were, what looks good on the menu (if we're dining out) or discuss family news. We enjoy spending time with one another... and while food is important, it's only secondary to the sense of togetherness. Spending our meals this way allows us to focus on one another and enjoy eachother rather than get our attention hijacked by unusual diners around us, unless they are a catalyst that allows me to spew sage advice to my kids

Be happy... be appreciative... be kind. Everything you swallow, including your food, will taste better...

 

[ducklite]

Is there any other way to understand your meaning when you said:


If your intention was not to equate children with pets, why add the "they don't allow pets either" comment?

I was trying to be as ridiculous to the poster I was replying to as they were being to me. I guess you don't understand sarcasm.

I am confident that Disney recognizes that what really takes away from the Magic are condescending, complaining, fill in your own adjective, people. You earlier mentioned that there are not many restaurants within 1/2 hr. of your home but I do believe that you would definitely feel more comfortable in exploring other options as there will always be children (and yes some of them will be out of control) at DisneyWorld. I personally feel that Arthur's 27 may be a better fit for you.

Maybe you need to get your facts straight, it's closed, and has been for about a year now.

As children do not seem to be on this thread to defend themselves, I think that you are more likely the person who "would scream like a banshee" if you were not to get your way than most of the overtired children that are a common site at WDW. Please pull up a trough and help yourself.

No, I don't scream, I won't stoop to the level of inconsiderate parents and annoy other diners by making a scene. I will however have a word with management to express my concerns as I did the other night. And I have no reason to eat from a trough, I was taught appropriate table manners as a child, and the repercussions for poor behaviour were severe and memorable.

Anne

 

[ducklite]

Calgarygary-

I noticed you are looking forward to a special dinner at V&A. How would you feel about a screaming child there?

Oh my! When is it?! I'll arrange to borrow a couple kids I wouldn't even take to McDonalds to dine there that night. Somehow I think that his opinion on children disrupting meals would quickly change.

Anne

 

[Sammie]

I really think that some of are you are missing the point on this. Sure Anne could have probably started out in a less hostile tone, but that does not change the message.

There is no excuse what so ever for this type of behavior and especially in a Signature Restaurant.

It is irrelevant as to whether anyone is on the dining plan, ever eaten at a Signature Restaurant or not, millionare or not, it's about manners. These particular parents were "rude".

If your child does not act like the children Anne, described why in the world would you be offended. She never said all children act this way. She said children who do act this way regardless of the reason do not need to dine in this type of restaurant or in my opinion anywhere until they calm down.

All the talk about kids being kids, it WDW, etc is just excuses. Children can and do behave all the time in public. I have seen many act better than adults.

This is a discussion about the parents not taking responsiblity for their children's actions. But then I said from the beginning, that is due to the fact they don't care about anyone other than themselves.

 

[Mackey Mouse]

Bravo to the previous poster.. I tried to say the same thing in my previous post. It is not that we do not want small children eating in signature restaurants....by all means, bring your children... I love children....but if they are going to be acting up and running around....or crying, please take them out..

 

[calgarygary]

Calgarygary-

I noticed you are looking forward to a special dinner at V&A. How would you feel about a screaming child there?

I don't think you get my point throughout this thread at all. If there is a screaming child at V&A, I am quite sure that I and the staff at V&A can deal with the situation without referring to the other people in a rude manner. The OP is complaining about the behaviour of others in a way that is boorish and the height of poor manners. That is my point. You do not need to be condescending and ignorant of others to register what may be a valid complaint.

 

[ducklite]

Yeah, things don't always work out as planned. I'm sure the parents didn't plan on having the kids screaming during dinner. Being that you have to make these ADR's months in advance, they didn't know the kids would be screaming at that time - they may have not even known when they got there or when they ordered. As someone who has four young kids, I know things can go downhill quickly and with little notice.

GO BACK AND READ THE ORIGINAL POST! This family was STILL IN THE LOBBY! THEY HADN'T BEEN SEATED YET!!! There was no "going downhill ast" they were already at the bottom, and rather than doing the respectful thing and leaving, they were seated and allowed their children to disrupt the dinner of 100 or so people within earshot. Now tell me HOW is that an OK thing to do????

I have some, but not much sympathy for the original poster - sorry - if I want a nice quiet dinner without kids around, a restaurant in WDW is not where I go. It's just common sense to me.

No, what is common sense is for people whose kids are melitng down before they are even at their table to go someplace more appropriate to feed the kids and try again another time.

Or like the other people I described, to leave when the kids get fussy, but before a full-blown nuclear attack unfolds.

I don't expect kids to be perfect. I never said I did. Nor did I say kids don't bellong at WDW. What I said is that in a nutshell, kids who are disruptive need to be removed from a situation where they are bothering other guests. Does that mean a baby softy cooing or kids giggling is disruptive? Of course not! It means that kids who are crying, screaming, wailing, throwing things, crawling under others tables, taking food off of others plates, running around out of control need to be removed. They need to be removed BEFORE it gets to that point.

Anne

 

[apostolic4life]

I have to say, this thread has really developed into a hot button of sorts. I (being a an Executive Chef) have to say a few things about the overall complaint registered by the OP: you are 100% correct in expecting a certain level of of ambience in a restaurant such as Citricos; parents should do everything in their power to maintain the children who would accompany them to such a restaurant; if the parents connot maintain an acceptible level of behavior, they should remove the children from the restaurant. These things are not harsh, just simply minimum levels of expectation.

Now, as for all the referances to classes, wealth, or lack of either (i.e. barnyard animals, pets, hats being worn, not dressing appropriately etc.): I would never exclude anyone from coming to my restaurant based on social standing, pedigree, or outward appearance - many of us have been blessed with good educations, jobs, and/or wealth and I feel I am expected to use the things I have been blessed with to enrich the lives of others who have not been as fortunate. I believe everyone who visits my establishment is entitled to a fine dining experience regardless of social standing. I have more repect for a person who would save their pennies to bring his/her family to my restaurant once a year and enrich his/her families life than I do for the person who has had family money handed down generation after generation and expects everyone in my establishment to bow at their feet because of the wealth they never worked for! As for clothing, come as you are.....enjoy your dinner.......and respect everyone in my restaurant (no matter how they dress). If you choose to dress up and celebrate or just want that special night out, my staff will ensure you leave with the experience you came looking for! Please remember also, many of my "regulars" may have just gotten off work, been to the park with the kids or maybe they got caught out in the rain and they may not be dressed to your standard for eating in my restaurant, but I guess that is the point: it is my restaurant and I decide who gets a seat and who doesn't. Gee whiz, just like WDW........if they let you have a table, you must meet their standards for entry! IMHO.

 

[tinker&belle]

Maybe a heighth requirement for restaurants??? Just trying to lighten the mood...

 

[Lewisc]

I haven't read the entire thread but I can sort of understand a family that made a reservation and arranged their TS to have enough credits to dine in a signature restaurant giving their kids "the benefit of the doubt" past the point of being any doubt.

I think the solution might be to follow Bistro and not have a children's menu and they might even require everyone, including kids, order a price fixed menu or at least an entrée from the adult menu. Citrios might even follow the example of Shula's and comp the kids club, or at least offer a discounted rate that's less than what dinner for the kids at the restaurant would cost.

The problem is Disney is a family destination and most of the restaurants have to cater to kids. Making a half dozen "signature" restaurants the exception is probably a fair compromise.

 

[dalt01]

Maybe a heighth requirement for restaurants??? Just trying to lighten the mood...

careful you will get accused of pot stirring with no substance

 

[tinker&belle]

Okay, I'll throw this out...how often does this happen in WDW restaurants...would you say more or less than your typical Applebees/Longhorn Steakhouse/Cheesecake Factory experience?