Anyone else get annoyed.. (School Supplies)

[Karlzmom]

And, not to get *too* petty, but I'm sure that as a government attorney, you make a little more money than the average schoolteacher. I've been teaching over 20 years and make less than ALL of my friends, even though I have the most education. I also spend about $2500 a year on classroom purchases. Oh well! It makes me happy!

We actually start in the low 40's with our 7-8 years of mandatory education + passing the bar exam. Awaiting my bar results I was able to secure a position with my employer at $15/hr. It took the agency 4 months after my being sworn in to get the paperwork done to hire me at the "full" rate. It does step up quite a bit after 5 years of practice, but we also work year 'round, and it is not unusual for us to work regularly in excess of 60 hours a week in the office and still take work home at night. Weekends are frequently spent in the office to do the prep as we are in court during the "business hours". Last month I logged a 160 hours in a two week period because of a warrant operation I was working. I also have a requirement to be available by phone in my "off" hours to coordinate warrants/surveillance etc. So, when its all considered, I probably could make more per hour doing a regular-joe-job.

As far as my incuding "gifts" I know that there are needs in all jobs, my point was more that as an attorney we are subjected to a never-ending barrage of expectations "because we make more." Never mind that our education has us in debt the price of a sizable mortgage to qualify for the position, simply because we are "professionals" we are EXPECTED to give, and generously, at every turn. No token gifts permitted.

No, we don't get reimbursed for everything. My agency pays my state bar dues [I pay out of pocket for my out-of-state licencse], and there is a minimal stipend for the mandatory continuing education to keep our license. The amount paid by the agency hasn't been raised in at least 10 years, and doesn't even cover the tuition of some of the classes, let alone the hotel costs and meals. I know its hard to believe, but its true. I don't know what else I can say if you don't believe me. Management's position is that there are challenges to working in the public sector, and unlike a firm we can't simply increase our fees to cover the materials needed. So, I write off what I can and take it as the price of doing business...again I love what I do.

Bottom line, things are tough all over.

 

[perkinsrose]

We actually start in the low 40's with our 7-8 years of mandatory education + passing the bar exam. Awaiting my bar results I was able to secure a position with my employer at $15/hr. It took the agency 4 months after my being sworn in to get the paperwork done to hire me at the "full" rate. It does step up quite a bit after 5 years of practice, but we also work year 'round, and it is not unusual for us to work regularly in excess of 60 hours a week in the office and still take work home at night. Weekends are frequently spent in the office to do the prep as we are in court during the "business hours". Last month I logged a 160 hours in a two week period because of a warrant operation I was working. I also have a requirement to be available by phone in my "off" hours to coordinate warrants/surveillance etc. So, when its all considered, I probably could make more per hour doing a regular-joe-job.

As far as my incuding "gifts" I know that there are needs in all jobs, my point was more that as an attorney we are subjected to a never-ending barrage of expectations "because we make more." Never mind that our education has us in debt the price of a sizable mortgage to qualify for the position, simply because we are "professionals" we are EXPECTED to give, and generously, at every turn. No token gifts permitted.

No, we don't get reimbursed for everything. My agency pays my state bar dues [I pay out of pocket for my out-of-state licencse], and there is a minimal stipend for the mandatory continuing education to keep our license. The amount paid by the agency hasn't been raised in at least 10 years, and doesn't even cover the tuition of some of the classes, let alone the hotel costs and meals. I know its hard to believe, but its true. I don't know what else I can say if you don't believe me. Management's position is that there are challenges to working in the public sector, and unlike a firm we can't simply increase our fees to cover the materials needed. So, I write off what I can and take it as the price of doing business...again I love what I do.

Bottom line, things are tough all over.

In my state, first year teachers start much lower than $40,000. My undergrad was a 5 yr program at a unversity and required one year of unpaid internship/student teaching in a school--(I actually paid tuition to be able to do it).

I just spent $20,000 on a Masters in Teaching Reading (half the credits of which were REQUIRED by the state to renew my provisional teaching licence, I chose to complete the full Masters while I was at it) with NO tuition reimbursement at any public schools I know of in the area. We also pay out of pocket for licences, renewals, fingerprinting /criminal background check, etc. and much more.


I love teaching and its all worth it in the end. I think alot of people assume we have it made with summers off. If only they knew the hours spent in the classroom before and after school, evening school functions, hours upon hours at home and on the weekends spent planning and with paperwork,...not to mention the concern and worry and thought about a classfull of precious children and the sometimes unimaginiable things they have to endure when they're not in school.

 

[TanyaLovesPooh]

The teaching profession is one of the most important in our culture in my opinion. It is also one of the least appreciated. Thank you to all you wonderful teachers out there!


I will admit that I have been annoyed about being told to not label my child's supplies. My 10 yr. old daughter told me a few days ago that her teacher last year did that because she wanted them to all label the stuff together in class. So my daughter got the supplies I bought her, the teacher just had her own way of wanting the supplies labeled.

 

[noodleknitter]

I'm not sure what I may have done to cause you to use such venom towards me. Am I incorrect that we are all entitled to speak our peace? I must say that I've never been the subject of direct namecalling and challenges that I don't know what I'm talking about, or that I don't think before on this board [or any other in these forums]. If I've offended you personally, I sincerely apologise. Clearly we see the world differently. I would like to think that there is room in the world for us both.

I apologize. You see, I oftentimes forget that I have responded to someone before. I didn't realize you are the person who made the marxist comment. I did feel that to be over the top. I was given points, if it makes you feel better! You are speaking your peace, but others have the right to respond. I'm not sure what you mean by challenges, if it is to homeschool, well, I think that is a good thing...not a bad.

If you are going to express strong, biased sentiment, you are going to hear strong opinions in return. I am a homeschooler who homeschools because we enjoy it, and are good at it, not because I think that others are evil. I love my friends and family who teach, and think that they make the world a much better place for my kids.

Comparing wardrobe, and schooling is about equal. Teachers aren't allowed to go nekkid, and at least OH is demanding graduate degrees, etc. The difference is that every teacher I know spends hundreds each year, not for themselves, but to make their classroom a better place for their students. I've worked for the schools in contract positions, and for the county as a Psychologist. My husband works for the state u. I never bought anything, except pictures for my walls, and that was just 'cuz I wanted them. He has never purchased ANYTHING for work, ever.

PS, isn't it kind of funny that 2 homeschoolers are battling it out on a classroom thread...

Just so you know, unless you jump up and down and say you are the marxist lady, I probably STILL won't recognize you. I tend to get to know who people are due to their tags, and sig. pics! Sad, I know!

 

[shaunaday]

I had to pop in to say this:

Thanks Noodleknitter, perkinsrose, TanyaLovesPooh and the countless others who understood my "complaint" about novelty supplies. I appreciate all of you for not misunderstanding my comments.

Anyway...it's Friday, I have only 2 weeks until I graduate with my Masters (also in reading instruction, perkinsrose), my students are pretty fabulous, my hubby has gone to pick up Mexican food for the evening, and I have a Disney Vacation coming up. Life is good.

 

[noodleknitter]

I had to pop in to say this:

Thanks Noodleknitter, perkinsrose, TanyaLovesPooh and the countless others who understood my "complaint" about novelty supplies. I appreciate all of you for not misunderstanding my comments.

Anyway...it's Friday, I have only 2 weeks until I graduate with my Masters (also in reading instruction, perkinsrose), my students are pretty fabulous, my hubby has gone to pick up Mexican food for the evening, and I have a Disney Vacation coming up. Life is good.

Congrats on your Masters! And disney is a great way to celebrate! You are smarter than I, I only went away to the country for the week.

 

[noodleknitter]

I had to pop in to say this:

Thanks Noodleknitter, perkinsrose, TanyaLovesPooh and the countless others who understood my "complaint" about novelty supplies. I appreciate all of you for not misunderstanding my comments.

Anyway...it's Friday, I have only 2 weeks until I graduate with my Masters (also in reading instruction, perkinsrose), my students are pretty fabulous, my hubby has gone to pick up Mexican food for the evening, and I have a Disney Vacation coming up. Life is good.

Congrats on your Masters! And disney is a great way to celebrate! You are smarter than I, I only went away to the country for the week.

 

[Aristomommy]

I was "public service" employee for years and never paid for any of the tools necessary for my job. Neither does my husband. Where on earth are you getting that info?

A teacher needs the freedom to run his/her class in the way that is most efficient. They need to be free of distractions, and time wasters, and need to arrange things in the best way possible. I'd think that the education and not the pretty pencils and other crap sent in by parents living their kids lives would be the important thing. If a teacher doesn't want to waste precious class time having everyone gather their own unique materials I would think the parents need to respect that, and support them.

If not, pull the little dears out, and teach them yourself.

Shauna, hope day 2 was better! I understood your post entirely!

1. About public service employees: I work in healthcare and you may be surprised how much my co-workers and I spend annually without any tax breaks or reimbursement. I buy braces and adaptive equipment at consignment shops all the time and we keep a charity closet for our patients. I have a co-worker who builds ramps and treatment tables for our patients who can't afford them. I know a wonderful EMT that often helps the patients he transfers, he has literally given the shirt off his back many times. He makes barely above minimum wage while saving lives.... I think EMTs are so underpaid and have such great responsibility. Of course no one (even teachers) is forced to spend their own money, but we do it every day because there is a healthcare crisis in this country and our elderly are treated with such disrespect by the ins. companies. Our patients are in desperate need of supplies and I can't just turn my back on them.

2. Teachers should be able to run their classrooms how they want, but as we have seen at schools and on the boards, there are many different preferences among teachers. All I ask is fair notice on supplies so I can gather them when I can find the time during summer and that teachers not waste resources. I am still waiting for a teacher's list, since each teacher have their own list in addition to the grade list. Whatever DDs teacher asks for, I will supply for her and send extras, but I can vent about it here, can't I?

3. As far as the little dears comment: I think as parents we have the right to express our opinion and concerns when warranted. Public school doesn't mean that parents have no say in the process. School supplies is a minor thing in the big picture and I doubt it will be talked about when school gets in full swing. But to say I should pull DD out of school, if I don't agree with community supplies or supply a specific brand, is a little out there....

 

[gaelic grace]

Probably the same amount that any of the other "public service" employees pay to get the job done...

BTW, do you deduct your expenditures as business expenses? Check it out..it does help a bit.

I'm curious what "public service" employees you are speaking of. I have already admitted that because it's my field I have a bias but I can't think of field where you routinely provide the supplies needed other than education. I'm not saying they don't exist I just can't think of them.
I'm pretty sure the limit last year for teachers was 250.00. Educators are able to deduct the cost of ongoing schooling which is also quite expensive. The deduction however doesn't come close to covering the costs. I realize that many professions have ongoing schooling but I think the reason why educators always point out these differences is the comparison of salary to other jobs with similiar education.
I think the Marxism comment was beyond the pale. As you yourself can see from this board teachers do things differently. Some allow you to use your own supplies, some have community, some a hybrid, some like novelty some do not. There is no government conspiracy to re-distribute wealth at the elementary level. It still pains me that this is way the school year is starting for many families. I can't help but think that this spirit of adversity carries over to the relationship you have with the teacher. If you suspect before school has even started that your teacher is hoarding supplies to take home, wasteful, or spreading subversive behavior I can't imagine what will happen next. What ever happened to giving the benefit of doubt? or just agreeing to disagree? It seems silly that some are so angry or upset over this. Every school rich or poor needs parents who will put this kind of energy into any number of projects.

 

[nancy drew]

All of these comments from parents who have never been teachers are pretty much insane. Obviously these are comments from people who have never taught a day in their life. So as a former teacher, I'll share.

Once you find yourself trying to effectively manage a classroom of 28 (or more!) children, you will see that making sure EVERYONE has the proper supplies is essential. If you have a system where the kids have red folders for this and blue folders for that, there is a REASON for it. I have personally spent a fat ton of my own money on red and blue (or whatever) folders for the kids and i SALUTE the teachers who have the means to ask the parents to buy those things. Every child gets a folder, and I don't have to stop the flow of my lesson to ask Johnny why his mommy felt the need to buy a Star Wars folder instead of a red one as I asked.

Same goes for the crayon situation. In kindergarten, first, and second grade (and maybe beyond, but those are the grades I have most experience in) there are times where a child needs a specific color crayon for an assignment. I have tried letting the kids have their own boxes of crayons in their desks. I really have. I have tried keeping each child's crayons packaged outside of their desks. And really, with young kids, the best way to do it is to collect all the crayons and split them up by color, and hand them out as needed. Otherwise we are taking time away from lessons to ask Johnny where his red crayon is. When you have to stop like that, you lose the whole flow of a lesson and its horrible for classroom management. Why? Because you have to wait while Johnny looks for his red crayon, then you remember that he has no red crayon because he ate it last week, and you have to dig through your extra crayon box to find a red one, and of course ALL the red crayons have magically disappeared... etc. It eats up valuable time from all the other kids who DO have their crayons. So I guess it boils down to whether you are willing to let your child's education suffer because some kids don't have their supplies.

Another issue in here is the fact that teachers get a very limited budget for classroom spending. I cannot even imagine how much money I spent on classroom supplies. All of that was out of my own pocket. I was earning a salary that put me below poverty level yet I had to buy folders, crayons, glue, etc. That's ridiculous.

I will say that when I asked parents not to label things and they did, I covered the labels or peeled them off. And that was a mental strike against those parents for not following directions. And that was a nice way to let me know their kids were not going to be brilliant direction-followers either. So think about the message you are sending to your child, and the teacher, by ignoring their requests.

 

[smidgy]

I admit when my kids were in school, I did send them trapper folders, and the "big" box of crayons,(if I could afford it that year) but it was allowed. If the teacher wants no "novelty" items, and is going to pool the supplies, that's fine. let me know and I won't buy anything "special". however she manages her classroom is fine by me.
but I think the point of the original post was not so much about this, but having to provide more than needed for one child, WHETHER IT IS POOLED OR NOT.
if some parents don't send supplies, it should not be REQUIRED of me (or any other parent) to supply them. IF I am ASKED to DONATE extra, maybe I will. Or maybe I spent the amount allocated in our budget for charity on other charities.

 

[nancy drew]

I admit when my kids were in school, I did send them trapper folders, and the "big" box of crayons,(if I could afford it that year) but it was allowed. If the teacher wants no "novelty" items, and is going to pool the supplies, that's fine. let me know and I won't buy anything "special". however she manages her classroom is fine by me.
but I think the point of the original post was not so much about this, but having to provide more than needed for one child, WHETHER IT IS POOLED OR NOT.
if some parents don't send supplies, it should not be REQUIRED of me (or any other parent) to supply them. IF I am ASKED to DONATE extra, maybe I will. Or maybe I spent the amount allocated in our budget for charity on other charities.

But, see, then the teacher has to take her own money and buy supplies for those kids. Is that OK? Especially since teachers make such crappy salaries? My first teaching jobs, in a MAJOR US city, paid me less than $20K per year. This was about 10 years ago, so bump that up to $30K per year for cost of living increase. In a major city, with rent, gas, etc. A teacher is supposed to then spend $100 of her grocery money on school supplies for little Johnny whose mom didn't buy his stuff? I just don't understand that. The choices are:

Parents buy supplies
Teacher pays out of his/her own pocket for supplies

Which option makes more sense?

 

[smidgy]

I'm not going to get into how much teachers' salaries are. that's not the point.
of course it's not OK for the teacher to have to provide that. but it's STILL not ok to make me provide it. many schools have a free lunch program for the truly needy. they don't require me to send extra lunches for the kids whose parents don't send lunches.
as I stated in previous posts, I HAVE helped out other kids who needed it. I have donated treats and games for partys, as well as my time, both in the classroom, and driving around the kids whose parents can never make it to the soccer games, etc. MY CHOICE. this is NOT a Socialist society. the responsible parents should just send in what their child needs and maybe the administrators will crack down on those who send nothing, cause they know they will get away with it.

 

[TwinsinCA]

A teacher is supposed to then spend $100 of her grocery money on school supplies for little Johnny whose mom didn't buy his stuff? I just don't understand that. The choices are:

Parents buy supplies
Teacher pays out of his/her own pocket for supplies

Which option makes more sense?

Neither. Other parents should not be buying Johnny's supplies and neither should you. The onus is on HIS PARENTS. Period.

Does it really make sense to you that other parents should spend their grocery money? Really?

 

[TwinsinCA]

I'm not going to get into how much teachers' salaries are. that's not the point.
of course it's not OK for the teacher to have to provide that. but it's STILL not ok to make me provide it. many schools have a free lunch program for the truly needy. they don't require me to send extra lunches for the kids whose parents don't send lunches.

Excellent point.

 

[TwinsinCA]

All of these comments from parents who have never been teachers are pretty much insane. Obviously these are comments from people who have never taught a day in their life. So as a former teacher, I'll share.

Once you find yourself trying to effectively manage a classroom of 28 (or more!) children, you will see that making sure EVERYONE has the proper supplies is essential. If you have a system where the kids have red folders for this and blue folders for that, there is a REASON for it. I have personally spent a fat ton of my own money on red and blue (or whatever) folders for the kids and i SALUTE the teachers who have the means to ask the parents to buy those things. Every child gets a folder, and I don't have to stop the flow of my lesson to ask Johnny why his mommy felt the need to buy a Star Wars folder instead of a red one as I asked.

Same goes for the crayon situation. In kindergarten, first, and second grade (and maybe beyond, but those are the grades I have most experience in) there are times where a child needs a specific color crayon for an assignment. I have tried letting the kids have their own boxes of crayons in their desks. I really have. I have tried keeping each child's crayons packaged outside of their desks. And really, with young kids, the best way to do it is to collect all the crayons and split them up by color, and hand them out as needed. Otherwise we are taking time away from lessons to ask Johnny where his red crayon is. When you have to stop like that, you lose the whole flow of a lesson and its horrible for classroom management. Why? Because you have to wait while Johnny looks for his red crayon, then you remember that he has no red crayon because he ate it last week, and you have to dig through your extra crayon box to find a red one, and of course ALL the red crayons have magically disappeared... etc. It eats up valuable time from all the other kids who DO have their crayons. So I guess it boils down to whether you are willing to let your child's education suffer because some kids don't have their supplies.

I am not a teacher. However, I have volunteered in my daughters' classroom at least once a week since they started school. (They start 3rd grade next week.) More than half of those days I was at school ALL day. So while I am not a teacher, I have observed enough to form an opinion -- even if you find it "insane".

What IS insane is that you had to teach classes with 28+ kids in the primary grades! In California our class sizes cannot exceed 20 students through 3rd grade.

I am trying to understand the logic in taking the time to pass out 28+ crayons and pick them up again. Is that really that much less time consuming than each student reaching into their desk? For those that lost/broke/ate the crayons -- keep an extras supply in the classroom. If a student doesn't have the required color they go get it themselves while the other students are getting their crayons out and getting started. I fail to see how that can be more disruptive to the lesson than having to distribute and collect all the crayons every time they need them.

This is how it was done in my daughters' 2nd grade classroom and it went very smoothly. It was the same with scissors, markers, glue sticks, and colored pencils. There was a box of extras for those who didn't have them, and those that did could get started on their work.

 

[Aliceacc]

I There was a box of extras for those who didn't have them, and those that did could get started on their work.

Where did the extras come from?

 

[noodleknitter]

nancy drew, you say what I hear all of the time. They are consolidating schools again here, and my neighbor is going to have 35 in her 3rd grade class, pluss, since her kids did so well last year, she was given two exptra reading groups. (not sure how that works, but I know it will mean more work for her, and more prizes for her box!)

 

[bigbabyblues]

nancy drew, you say what I hear all of the time. They are consolidating schools again here, and my neighbor is going to have 35 in her 3rd grade class, pluss, since her kids did so well last year, she was given two exptra reading groups. (not sure how that works, but I know it will mean more work for her, and more prizes for her box!)

Wow, 35 in one class??

My DS had 10 in his class last year, and possibly 1-2 more this year. I can't imagine 35!

 

[Nancyg56]

Where did the extras come from?

Some parents so what my DD does. She shops the sales and picks up plenty of supplies that she thinks the kids will use. She has a big box already packed and ready to deliver to the teacher as soon as she knows who her DD will have. She lets the teacher know that she can share the box with anyone she chooses, it is not limited to her own room and also asks the teacher to fee free to let her know if there is anything that she would like.

Or perhaps the teacher supplies the extras from her own money. My niece teaches and that is what she does. No child goes without in her classroom.

My other niece was a behaviorist in an inner city. In her classroom there was no money for supplies. Not one penny. Not for books, not for pencils, not for crayons, markers nothing! These children were disadvantaged, came from troubled homes, had nothing and were acting out, they were sent to her classroom as a safe environment when there was no place else to send them. She was entry level and earned not much but she supplied her classroom and "went shopping" in DD"s box. We all made sure her classroom was stocked with books and learning materials so that her kids were stimulated in a positive manner.

This is how extra supplies appear in classrooms. Someone buys them and then shares them with the others.

I know I should stay away from these threads, I just don't get the problem. If parents choose not to let their kids share that is their choice but I don't understand that. The tone you set for your children matters so much more than brand name scissors and Rose Art crayons and who gets to use the glitter pencils. You teach your kids to respect the requests of teachers and to share with friends. You teach them to either respect their teachers or you diminish their authority and you can teach them to enjoy getting ready for school or you can teach them to resent school and others who may not have as much as they do. In the end you make the difference and how you approach this issue as with many others will be a learning opportunity for you kids.

If you disagree with the list, how the supplies are distributed or the amount of money you are required to send it you can make changes by discussing with the administration and by getting involved in the school system and town meetings. No matter what changes occur they will not be acceptable to everyone but you will know that you have tried to make your school system better for your own children and for others who do not have advocates. Discussing teachers as though they were thieves taking Crayola's home, stock piling tissues, hoarding paper and swiping Hannah Montana pencils is just sad.