Delta "Family Seating"

[deegack]

This thread shows some of the worst side of humanity. The heartless, the selfish and cruel. I love how so many posters on here have just assumed that if they are asked to move seats it's because the parent who needs to sit next to their kid didn't prepare. Never mind that it's a fact that even if you pick a seat the airline will switch seats around as they see fit. Never mind that many of the airlines mentioned in this post don't even charge for seat selection. Never mind that parent may have selected and paid extra their seats too. No if the airline messes up the seats - that parent 'failed to plan' and accomidating the disabled isn't your 'problem'.

Telling the parent of a child with a disability who requires accomidations that they should have 'planned better' even if the airline is the one to blame for the seat issue is full of such ignorance and bigotry. I had thought the DIS was a safe place from that kind of prejudice.

And hence why I said of course there are cases when equipment is changed etc. DH is 6'7" tall with a 40 inch inseam. That means he physically does not fit in most coach seats. We usually choose to fly first class but can't always so he has to sit in an aisle seat. An exit row is best but if we fly with DD that is not possible. So yes if you don't choose to purchase a seat assignment for your entire family we will not give up our seat unless you are offering up a first class seat. If you choose to purchase scattered seats on a plane instead of choosing another flight not my problem. Take responsibility for your family like I take responsibility for mine. I refuse to put my husband in a situation when he will be in pain.

oh and I check my seating repeatedly when we are scheduled to fly. I have noticed changes and reselected seats that work for us.

I love the selective reading on the Dis.

 

[duffy]

This thread shows some of the worst side of humanity. The heartless, the selfish and cruel. I love how so many posters on here have just assumed that if they are asked to move seats it's because the parent who needs to sit next to their kid didn't prepare. Never mind that it's a fact that even if you pick a seat the airline will switch seats around as they see fit. Never mind that many of the airlines mentioned in this post don't even charge for seat selection. Never mind that parent may have selected and paid extra their seats too. No if the airline messes up the seats - that parent 'failed to plan' and accomidating the disabled isn't your 'problem'.

Telling the parent of a child with a disability who requires accomidations that they should have 'planned better' even if the airline is the one to blame for the seat issue is full of such ignorance and bigotry. I had thought the DIS was a safe place from that kind of prejudice.

Well, it ISN'T my problem. It's the parents' problem, and the flight attendants. I have no problem putting on my headphones and staring out the window.

I am not going to be responsible for making everyone around me happy.

If the parent paid for and selected their seat, and the airline is making them switch around, how is this my problem? And if they had that option to pay to choose a seat, and didn't exercise the right, again, how is that my problem?

 

[twinboysmom]

This thread shows some of the worst side of humanity. The heartless, the selfish and cruel. I love how so many posters on here have just assumed that if they are asked to move seats it's because the parent who needs to sit next to their kid didn't prepare. Never mind that it's a fact that even if you pick a seat the airline will switch seats around as they see fit. Never mind that many of the airlines mentioned in this post don't even charge for seat selection. Never mind that parent may have selected and paid extra their seats too. No if the airline messes up the seats - that parent 'failed to plan' and accomidating the disabled isn't your 'problem'.

Telling the parent of a child with a disability who requires accomidations that they should have 'planned better' even if the airline is the one to blame for the seat issue is full of such ignorance and bigotry. I had thought the DIS was a safe place from that kind of prejudice.

I agree with you. I have actually found when we have flown with our boys that people are by far nicer than the majority of posters on the Dis. It isn't always as simple as people have made it out to be here. The first time we flew with the boys when they were 10 months old on American we had plane changes which totally messed up our seat assignments. They were reassigned and seemed ok until we got on the plane. Mind you, nobody at check in noticed that we would not be able to sit where we were assigned. The flight attendants were of little help and told us we would have to ask others to change sears with us. Really? My boys were babies. We had people falling over themselves helping us. I guess this was poor planning on our part?

 

[LaurenLC]

Well, it ISN'T my problem. It's the parents' problem, and the flight attendants. I have no problem putting on my headphones and staring out the window.

I am not going to be responsible for making everyone around me happy.

If the parent paid for and selected their seat, and the airline is making them switch around, how is this my problem? And if they had that option to pay to choose a seat, and didn't exercise the right, again, how is that my problem?

You're right, it isn't YOUR problem, but gosh, would it really be the end of YOUR world to help someone out? Can you imagine what the world would be like if everyone had your same mentality, or at least the one YOU are CHOOSING to share here??? There would be a heck of a lot of terrible things going on because 'gee, it's not my problem!'

 

[duffy]

You're right, it isn't YOUR problem, but gosh, would it really be the end of YOUR world to help someone out? Can you imagine what the world would be like if everyone had your same mentality, or at least the one YOU are CHOOSING to share here??? There would be a heck of a lot of terrible things going on because 'gee, it's not my problem!'

Of course it would not be the end of my world.

My issue is with those who EXPECT me to sacrifice for them. Those who make it a habit to depend on the kindness of strangers, blithely going through life anticipating other people accommodating them.

 

[duffy]

And just to make it perfectly clear, I'm not talking about emergency situations.

 

[melancholywings]

Of course it would not be the end of my world.

My issue is with those who EXPECT me to sacrifice for them. Those who make it a habit to depend on the kindness of strangers, blithely going through life anticipating other people accommodating them.

How can you possibly know if some stranger on a plane with their disabled child who needs accommodations are 'blithely going through life anticipating other people accommodating them'. Or do you just judge people on appearances?

 

[maxiesmom]

I agree with you. I have actually found when we have flown with our boys that people are by far nicer than the majority of posters on the Dis. It isn't always as simple as people have made it out to be here. The first time we flew with the boys when they were 10 months old on American we had plane changes which totally messed up our seat assignments. They were reassigned and seemed ok until we got on the plane. Mind you, nobody at check in noticed that we would not be able to sit where we were assigned. The flight attendants were of little help and told us we would have to ask others to change sears with us. Really? My boys were babies. We had people falling over themselves helping us. I guess this was poor planning on our part?

And again, that exception has already been mentioned. Sometimes there is no one to blame but the airline for messed up seat assignments. But there are enough parents out there who think they will just save a few bucks, skip the seat assignments, and expect people to move for them to make those of us who pay for our seats a bit touchy about the subject.

In the case of the seat assingments being changed at the last possible minute, it does happen, and it stinks. However, that does not mean anyone else HAS to switch seats with you. If people want to, that is one thing. But expecting other people to accomodate you is something else entirely.

Be greatful when people help you out, don't try and demand they do so.

 

[maxiesmom]

How can you possibly know if some stranger on a plane with their disabled child who needs accommodations are 'blithely going through life anticipating other people accommodating them'. Or do you just judge people on appearances?

And how can you possibly know if the person you are asking to switch has a disability or not?

 

[pacrosby]

And how can you possibly know if the person you are asking to switch has a disability or not?

Honestly, if you don't wish to switch seats, for whatever the reason, then don't. Simply say "I'm sorry I wish I could help you but I can't, I chose this seat specifically for the leg room/I really need an aisle seat due to personal needs of my own/or whatever". And smile. Why is that so difficult


No one is likely to be 'forced' to move. People are generally just asked. Some may not be willing but others very well might. Deny the request if you so choose but why not do so politely and just move on? The attitude of the 'I'm not moving for you" crowd is just as disturbing as the "you better be willing to move" crowd...possibly more so because their attitude is based mainly on assumptions. For all you know that person asking you to move may have never asked anyone to move in their life. They may have done everything in their power to have their family seated together. They may be new to flying and not understand the ins and outs. Who knows what their situation is? Why are you choosing to assume the worst in people just because you know those selfish people do in fact exist out there...somewhere?

I stepped away from this thread a long time ago but can't belive it's still going on....and not a single person is saying anything different.

Play on

 

[maxiesmom]

Honestly, if you don't wish to switch seats, for whatever the reason, then don't. Simply say "I'm sorry I wish I could help you but I can't, I chose this seat specifically for the leg room/I really need an aisle seat due to personal needs of my own/or whatever". And smile. Why is that so difficult

I don't think anyone should have to explain why they don't want to move. It is really no one else's business why I choose an aisle seat, and I wouldn't like feeling I HAD to explain, or else face a parent's wrath. Hopefully I am wrong, but I get the feeling that some people would demand to know a reason why, or thow a fit. I could be wrong, and it could just be the whole people-are-more-open-on-the-internet-than-they-are-in-real-life thing. I like to think in real life it is more of a parent A asks, and flyer B says no so parent A moves on kind of thing. But from the tone of this thread (from both sides), it doesn't sound like it.

 

[Schmeck]

This is exactly what I was referring to, regardless of whether you paid extra for that seat assignment or not. There is no recourse. You have no "rights" over a seat, no matter what you paid or didn't pay to select that seat.

And there seems to be some misunderstanding: except when I have flown Southwest airlines I have *never* gone into a booked flight without having selected assigned seats that seat me next to all of my children. If a flight did not have the seat assignments I needed, then I would not book that flight. Over the years, a handful of times I have had my confirmed seat assignments suddenly changed on me or nullified once I've made it to the airport for reasons no one has ever explained to me, but then again--- I don't "own" the seats so I don't ever walk over to check-in for a boarding flight presuming that we are going to have the same seats we pre-selected.

And yes, I would take a different flight to ensure that I was next to my children. I have children with significant special needs. I have a g-tube fed child with oxygen, a blind daughter who is developmentally less than three despite her age of 10 just to name two pertinent issues that require my attention during a flight, never mind the toddler. If an airline where to decide that the only way they could accommodate our seating needs would be to bump 7 of us to another flight, then I would choose to be bumped to another flight rather than scatter my children all over an airplane.

However, I presume that the airlines find it more convenient for themselves to switch around passengers on the flight I'm standing there to board, rather than to figure out how to get us the same needed seating arrangement on a flight in which we're adding an extra 7 people. It's a logistical problem and the airlines solve that logistical problem how they see fit. I don't tell them what they need to do, I tell them my problem and my needs "our seat assignments have been changed and I am now separated from my children who have XYZ needs and must be seated with me". For all my flying-with-children life that this has happened, the airlines have always chosen to solve that dilemma by re-arranging seat assignments. That is not my "fault" and it has nothing to do with my consideration of others, and this certainly doesn't rise to the level of some great issue of morality.

But with 3 children, you can't sit next to all of them anyways - what do you do with the 3rd child? That child would be next to a stranger, etc, right?

Also, I thought the federal government passed some sort of passengers' bill of rights, and part of it was about overbooking, certain amount of changes, etc. It gave the passenger a lot more ownership of a seat than before.

 

[pacrosby]

I don't think anyone should have to explain why they don't want to move. It is really no one else's business why I choose an aisle seat, and I wouldn't like feeling I HAD to explain, or else face a parent's wrath. Hopefully I am wrong, but I get the feeling that some people would demand to know a reason why, or thow a fit. I could be wrong, and it could just be the whole people-are-more-open-on-the-internet-than-they-are-in-real-life thing. I like to think in real life it is more of a parent A asks, and flyer B says no so parent A moves on kind of thing. But from the tone of this thread (from both sides), it doesn't sound like it.

No you are right....certainly you don't 'owe' anyone an explanation but why not offer one up? Why cop the attitude? Most of the time it's not so much WHAT we say but HOW we say it.

Only the most disagreeable of folks would likely take issue with someone not moving if they were nice about it and displayed a bit of sympathy for their situation. When you automatically assume they are responsible for their family not sitting together and cop the attitude....it can only go downhill from there.

Personally I just don't get why can't people be alittle friendlier? There appear to be some real serious anger issues with some folks here. What a way to go through life but, hey....... it's their life, not mine.

 

[duffy]

How can you possibly know if some stranger on a plane with their disabled child who needs accommodations are 'blithely going through life anticipating other people accommodating them'. Or do you just judge people on appearances?

How can you possibly know, if you ask me to change seats so you can sit with your disabled child, that I don't have my own disability that forced me to sit where I am?

Ask away! But don't be upset if I say, "no, sorry."

 

[ccgirl]

But with 3 children, you can't sit next to all of them anyways - what do you do with the 3rd child? That child would be next to a stranger, etc, right?

Also, I thought the federal government passed some sort of passengers' bill of rights, and part of it was about overbooking, certain amount of changes, etc. It gave the passenger a lot more ownership of a seat than before.

I was actually wondering the same thing.

 

[Mama Who]

No you are right....certainly you don't 'owe' anyone an explanation but why not offer one up? Why cop the attitude? Most of the time it's not so much WHAT we say but HOW we say it.
.

I think what some of us object to is the implication that not moving and/or not offering an explanation is somehow inherently tied to "copping an attitude." If someone asks me to move politely and it doesn't negatively impact me in an unacceptable manner, I will probably do it. If I don't like how I am approached or there is a reason (any reason of my choosing) that I don't wish to move, "No" or "Sorry, that doesn't work for me" is all I need to say. I am not "copping an attitude" if I politely decline to do a stranger a favor.

I will actually inconvenience myself a fair bit for a parent with a real need but sometimes it doesn't work for me. I'm sitting with my own kid prone to panic attacks. My husband needs that aisle seat and we're on our honeymoon. My knee is throbbing after hustling through an airport and the thought of walking twenty more feet after finally settling is tear-inspiring. Whatever. I don't think a reluctance to explain my personal business to a stranger asking me for a favor is synonymous with "attitude." I say yes when I can and if I say no I expect that to be respected and accepted graciously.

 

[NotUrsula]

[snip]
Also, I thought the federal government passed some sort of passengers' bill of rights, and part of it was about overbooking, certain amount of changes, etc. It gave the passenger a lot more ownership of a seat than before.

Actually, the bill that is nicknamed the Passenger's Bill of Rights has been stuck in committee for months, but this is the new DOT rule about tarmac delays and fee refunds (complete with ALL of the comments and objections made by the airlines and air industry groups):

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2011-04-25/pdf/2011-9736.pdf

You will note that the only reference to seating and seat fees is a requirement that the passenger receive a timely refund of any add'l fees paid for particular seating if "through no fault of his own" the passenger is unable to use the seat that was paid for. It has no provisions about one's right to sit in the seat selected, only the right to get your money back if you pay for it and then don't get to sit in it.

 

[pacrosby]

I think what some of us object to is the implication that not moving and/or not offering an explanation is somehow inherently tied to "copping an attitude." If someone asks me to move politely and it doesn't negatively impact me in an unacceptable manner, I will probably do it. If I don't like how I am approached or there is a reason (any reason of my choosing) that I don't wish to move, "No" or "Sorry, that doesn't work for me" is all I need to say. I am not "copping an attitude" if I politely decline to do a stranger a favor.

I will actually inconvenience myself a fair bit for a parent with a real need but sometimes it doesn't work for me. I'm sitting with my own kid prone to panic attacks. My husband needs that aisle seat and we're on our honeymoon. My knee is throbbing after hustling through an airport and the thought of walking twenty more feet after finally settling is tear-inspiring. Whatever. I don't think a reluctance to explain my personal business to a stranger asking me for a favor is synonymous with "attitude." I say yes when I can and if I say no I expect that to be respected and accepted graciously.

Referencing the bolded above: Are you 'assuming' that I'm implying that or are you 'assuming' that others are? I'm simply responding to the attitudes of some folks here on this thread. If you haven't displayed that attitude, than you can be sure that I'm not talking about you.

That said, IMO, claiming that the rather short and sweet phrase "Sorry that doesn't work for me" is all that should suffice does indeed suggest a bit of an attitude, intended or not. Maybe there is in fact a way it can be delivered without attitude but I'm trying to do it myself and it's a stretch......even with a smile and a delicate shake of the head, it's hard to pull that off without sounding like you are trying to prove some sort of point. So again, while I agree wholeheartedly that an explanation is not 'owed', it certainly makes for a much friendlier exchange. And, knowing that, the comeback "I don't owe someone an explanation" is a rather strange response that also just happens to sting of attitude. We don't have to do a lot of things in life but often we make the choice to do them simply because we know it's the better choice and, in the end, makes the world a much friendlier place.


As I see it, it really is simply about being nice. Too many people here seem more interested in teaching someone a lesson. Or simply taking a stand. Bottom line is that nobody can force you to move so you already have the advantage. Treat people the way you'd like to be treated; put yourself in other's shoes......give attitude and expect to get it in return.


ETA: and yes I do know that it goes both ways. I never suggested it didn't

 

[Schmeck]

Actually, the bill that is nicknamed the Passenger's Bill of Rights has been stuck in committee for months, but this is the new DOT rule about tarmac delays and fee refunds (complete with ALL of the comments and objections made by the airlines and air industry groups):

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2011-04-25/pdf/2011-9736.pdf

You will note that the only reference to seating and seat fees is a requirement that the passenger receive a timely refund of any add'l fees paid for particular seating if "through no fault of his own" the passenger is unable to use the seat that was paid for. It has no provisions about one's right to sit in the seat selected, only the right to get your money back if you pay for it and then don't get to sit in it.

Thank you so much for the link - I thought it went through already, it sounded that way on the news a while ago, but I guess that was the spin put on it at the time? Maybe I should watch the news later on in the day (instead of at 5 AM when I've just woken up, LOL!) so I remember things better.

 

[crashbb]

That said, IMO, claiming that the rather short and sweet phrase "Sorry that doesn't work for me" is all that should suffice does indeed suggest a bit of an attitude, intended or not. Maybe there is in fact a way it can be delivered without attitude but I'm trying to do it myself and it's a stretch......even with a smile and a delicate shake of the head, it's hard to pull that off without sounding like you are trying to prove some sort of point. So again, while I agree wholeheartedly that an explanation is not 'owed', it certainly makes for a much friendlier exchange. And, knowing that, the comeback "I don't owe someone an explanation" is a rather strange response that also just happens to sting of attitude. We don't have to do a lot of things in life but often we make the choice to do them simply because we know it's the better choice and, in the end, makes the world a much friendlier place.


As I see it, it really is simply about being nice. Too many people here seem more interested in teaching someone a lesson. Or simply taking a stand. Bottom line is that nobody can force you to move so you already have the advantage. Treat people the way you'd like to be treated; put yourself in other's shoes......give attitude and expect to get it in return.


ETA: and yes I do know that it goes both ways. I never suggested it didn't

So, basically, you are saying that we DO owe people an explanation.

Does that mean that the person asking for the seat also has to explain why they need the seat? Do they need to explain why they didn't end up with seats together?

You say to "put yourself in other's shoes" - How about people putting themselves in the shoes of the person being asked to move (and, according to you) being rude if they don't provide a full explanation as to why they don't want to move? Wouldn't accepting a "no" make the world a much friendly place? Why is it up the person being asked to move to make the world a friendlier place?

You say "treat people the way you'd like to be treated" - wouldn't you like to be treated as if your choice not to move doesn't require an in-depth explanation?

For all that you SAY that "it goes both ways", all of your comments show that your attitude is the exact opposite.