Continue to be shocked by the rude bully we encountered :(

[DisneyOma]

Now this however would qualify as bullying

I agree. Intimidation, in any form, is bullying.

It's difficult to react accordingly when you are shocked like that.

Here's a good article that explains the difference between rude, mean and bullying behaviors:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/signe-whitson/bullying_b_2188819.html

 

[Luv2Run]

This post is the reason my favorite Wishes viewing location is from one of the logs on Splash Mountain or one of the railroad cars on BTMRR. While you guys are arguing over personal space, bullying, sitting vs standing, pushing & shoving, getting in each other's faces, etc, my fiance and I are having the time of our lives with Brer Rabbit in the Laughing Place and zooming around on a runaway train on Big Thunder Mountain. You can see the fireworks from both of those rides. Problem solved.

 

[Magpie]

Here's a good article that explains the difference between rude, mean and bullying behaviors:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/signe-whitson/bullying_b_2188819.html

Excellent article!

"Intentionally aggressive behavior, repeated over time, that involves an imbalance of power."

That sums it up beautifully!

Part of the reason I get all pedantic when people use "bullying" or "bully" to describe situations that don't meet the definition, is because it diminishes the meaning of the word. As someone who was severely bullied in school (by peers AND teachers), on a daily basis, such that I was physically assaulted, had my belongings destroyed, and walked away with some issues that I'll never be able to completely shed (decades later I'm still twitchy about people approaching me from behind), I take the word VERY seriously.

Getting into my face at a parade? That's not being a bully. That's just being a jerk.

 

[MinnieMeep]

Excellent article!

"Intentionally aggressive behavior, repeated over time, that involves an imbalance of power."

That sums it up beautifully!

Part of the reason I get all pedantic when people use "bullying" or "bully" to describe situations that don't meet the definition, is because it diminishes the meaning of the word. As someone who was severely bullied in school (by peers AND teachers), on a daily basis, such that I was physically assaulted, had my belongings destroyed, and walked away with some issues that I'll never be able to completely shed (decades later I'm still twitchy about people approaching me from behind), I take the word VERY seriously.

Getting into my face at a parade? That's not being a bully. That's just being a jerk.

Completely agree and I'm very sorry Magpie. I cringe when people throw around the word "bully" like it applies to all sorts of situations. OP's incident was not a bully, it was a person being a jerk.

 

[BarbieGal457]

Personally, I could see both sides of this being considered "rude" and "jerks." You have the right to ask me to sit down, and I have the right to say no for whatever reason I want. Your desire I sit does not have any more merit than my desire to stand. Now, if this were somewhere like a concert with assigned seats meaning you can't move easily, then I think it's a proper request to ask someone to sit if they're blocking everyone's view. Somewhere like Disney, with something like fireworks that does not have assigned seating, if it really bothers you then you can move elsewhere. There are lots of reasons some people can't sit or don't want to, and it's not rude or jerk-like for them to say no. She was probably also annoyed that you asked her again after she said no. Once should've been good enough.

As for the getting in your face part, I agree with a PP that she may have "gotten in your face" because she thought you possibly didn't hear her answer the first time due to loud noise. It's not exactly easy to hear on Main Street with such large pre-fireworks crowds. Neither of you were wrong in your request or her answer. I just don't see the rudeness or especially the "bullying." Telling someone you don't want to sit for fireworks is not being a bully (but pushing someone out of the way definitely is, and it's also assault I would think), and in fact I never sit for them due to safety concerns as PPs have previously mentioned. I hate to sound rude but I don't see why you're so shocked a lot of us disagree with you. If there is an open space, anyone is entitled to move into it, and if someone does not want to sit for fireworks, they are not obligated to. It's not bullying and rude to say no, repeatedly, after someone has asked you repeatedly.

 

[BarbieGal457]

I hope I don't sound like I'm placing the blame on OP. I just think I can see it equally from both sides since there are always 3 truths - yours, theirs, and the actual story. I think both truly believed they were in the right in their feelings and reactions and I do not want to imply either was "wrong" because I don't feel that way at all. I do think each side should look at the others and try to understand where the other is coming from.

 

[hoffman1]

I have not read this entire thread but I can see both sides too.
A few years ago we went to watch the MNSSHP parade in Frontierland. We got to our spot fairly early but there were people already sitting on the wooden platforms. We stood up close to the rope (a pretty wide gap of space between us that eventually filled in with other people). Anyway, the people who were seated complained loudly about how rude we were to stand in front of them. I did not feel like we were doing anything wrong. If they had been seated on the ground, close to the ropes, I would not have stood in front of them. But with all that open space, I felt like it was ok. (and apparently so did all the other people who filled in behind us and in front of them)

 

[grnflash]

Personally, I could see both sides of this being considered "rude" and "jerks." You have the right to ask me to sit down, and I have the right to say no for whatever reason I want. Your desire I sit does not have any more merit than my desire to stand. Now, if this were somewhere like a concert with assigned seats meaning you can't move easily, then I think it's a proper request to ask someone to sit if they're blocking everyone's view. Somewhere like Disney, with something like fireworks that does not have assigned seating, if it really bothers you then you can move elsewhere. There are lots of reasons some people can't sit or don't want to, and it's not rude or jerk-like for them to say no. She was probably also annoyed that you asked her again after she said no. Once should've been good enough.

Having the right to do something doesn't exclude the person from being a jerk at the same time. Walking into a crowd of seated people and standing in front of them, for any reason, makes you a jerk. One can (and do) in fact claim that right, to be a jerk.

 

[BarbieGal457]

Having the right to do something doesn't exclude the person from being a jerk at the same time. Walking into a crowd of seated people and standing in front of them, for any reason, makes you a jerk. One can (and do) in fact claim that right, to be a jerk.

Maybe that's a jerk move to some, but at the same time those people don't own the open space and cannot say that no one is allowed to stand there. Personally I don't think I would do that, but no one has the right to claim empty space in front of them because they're sitting and think it's rude. I think both sides in this can be seen as acting like a jerk. Why does anyone have a right to request I need to sit, because they are? They don't. They also have no right that I don't utilize open space because they are sitting in an area that has open space available for use. You're not entitled to a buffer zone because you want to sit vs. stand. It's space up for anyone's grabs. You can think it's a jerk move but the people aren't jerks for using open space. The person requesting repeatedly people sit because they are annoyed by it aren't excluded from being seen as jerks either. Why is your comfort and view more important than mine? It isn't. Both sides can be seen as in the wrong (or the right) here.

 

[Teresa Pitman]

My daughter and I were waiting for Illuminations at Epcot. We were actually leaning on the railing in the area where we were, facing the lagoon. A couple of people came over and one said "Excuse me." I thought that for some reason they wanted to walk past (perhaps to join someone else further along the railing) so we let go of the railing and stepped slightly back. They moved to stand right in front of us, between us and the railing, and stood there to watch the show. My daughter and I are both very short so we could now see nothing! I was so stunned, I didn't even what to do. We decided to go find another spot.

 

[BarbieGal457]

I have not read this entire thread but I can see both sides too.
A few years ago we went to watch the MNSSHP parade in Frontierland. We got to our spot fairly early but there were people already sitting on the wooden platforms. We stood up close to the rope (a pretty wide gap of space between us that eventually filled in with other people). Anyway, the people who were seated complained loudly about how rude we were to stand in front of them. I did not feel like we were doing anything wrong. If they had been seated on the ground, close to the ropes, I would not have stood in front of them. But with all that open space, I felt like it was ok. (and apparently so did all the other people who filled in behind us and in front of them)

Yup, open space is open space and is open for use by any guest. I would never move to stand in front of someone at the ropes, that is flat out rude...but I'm not going to leave 10ft of empty space between you and the ropes because you wanted to sit along a wall. If that was the case Main Street wouldn't be able to fit half the people it does because everyone would have a buffer zone people wouldn't be "allowed" to fill. My theory is if you want to sit that's totally cool, but then you don't get to complain others are using empty space in front of you to stand. That's like having your cake and eating it too. Choosing one or the other has its downsides, and one is people that will stand in front of you.

 

[grnflash]

Maybe that's a jerk move to some, but at the same time those people don't own the open space and cannot say that no one is allowed to stand there. Personally I don't think I would do that, but no one has the right to claim empty space in front of them because they're sitting and think it's rude. I think both sides in this can be seen as acting like a jerk. Why does anyone have a right to request I need to sit, because they are? They don't. They also have no right that I don't utilize open space because they are sitting in an area that has open space available for use. You're not entitled to a buffer zone because you want to sit vs. stand. It's space up for anyone's grabs. You can think it's a jerk move but the people aren't jerks for using open space. The person requesting repeatedly people sit because they are annoyed by it aren't excluded from being seen as jerks either. Why is your comfort and view more important than mine? It isn't. Both sides can be seen as in the wrong (or the right) here.

It's just common courtesy. Simple as that.

 

[BarbieGal457]

My daughter and I were waiting for Illuminations at Epcot. We were actually leaning on the railing in the area where we were, facing the lagoon. A couple of people came over and one said "Excuse me." I thought that for some reason they wanted to walk past (perhaps to join someone else further along the railing) so we let go of the railing and stepped slightly back. They moved to stand right in front of us, between us and the railing, and stood there to watch the show. My daughter and I are both very short so we could now see nothing! I was so stunned, I didn't even what to do. We decided to go find another spot.

Yeah that is definitely not cool. I can't imagine ever doing that and that is totally rude and jerk-like to me. Standing in open space in front of people sitting is quite different to me. You're not entitled to that open space not being filled, or to having those people sit because you are too. I refuse to sit due to safety concerns, ie a fire breaking out, and I'm not going to be made anxious and uncomfortable because you think I need to sit.

 

[BarbieGal457]

It's just common courtesy. Simple as that.

But no it's not. If there is open space why aren't people allowed to use it because other people want to sit? People sitting do not own the space around them and they do not trump others wishing to stand. I would never cut people off near ropes or anything, but if I'm on Main Street and there is an open bubble I have every reason to be able to stand there. Common courtesy is also not getting angry when people don't comply with your requests that they do something you want them to do, like sit.

We will have to agree to disagree here.

 

[kamik86]

For those that are saying that rude isn't new...

Your right its not but businesses used to support the civil customers and not the rude ones.

Examples:
If you tried to cut in line at customer service you would have been told the line is back there and ignored. Now they serve you and just say sorry to those that waited hoping that those in back don't make a big deal of it.

My husband works retail and due to the store being afraid to make people angry or be sued they literally cannot kick someone out of the store for anything short of physical violence to people. Its part of their training. so you can literally stand in the middle of the store yelling profanity and slurs at customers and employees and the only thing they can do is call the police. Which will take at least 20 min to arrive.

If you broke something in a store you used to have to pay for it.

Businesses now cater to the rude really. How many times have you seen rude people given what they want just to shut them up and get them to leave? So its not even that there are no consequences. Actually all of us that aren't being rude and following the rules could be considered stupid because those that are rude are getting privileges we don't get.

 

[dfb]

I hope I don't sound like I'm placing the blame on OP. I just think I can see it equally from both sides since there are always 3 truths - yours, theirs, and the actual story. I think both truly believed they were in the right in their feelings and reactions and I do not want to imply either was "wrong" because I don't feel that way at all. I do think each side should look at the others and try to understand where the other is coming from.

Don't forget the fourth truth! The truth of those who were not there but bestow upon everyone their assumptions. How do we know the OP's story isn't the "actual story" I think the OP is the only one on this thred who was there. If the Op felt the folks were rude they were rude. If the OP felt the folks bullied their way into an inappropriate space then they are bullies.

 

[Magpie]

For those that are saying that rude isn't new...

Your right its not but businesses used to support the civil customers and not the rude ones.

Examples:
If you tried to cut in line at customer service you would have been told the line is back there and ignored. Now they serve you and just say sorry to those that waited hoping that those in back don't make a big deal of it.

My husband works retail and due to the store being afraid to make people angry or be sued they literally cannot kick someone out of the store for anything short of physical violence to people. Its part of their training. so you can literally stand in the middle of the store yelling profanity and slurs at customers and employees and the only thing they can do is call the police. Which will take at least 20 min to arrive.

If you broke something in a store you used to have to pay for it.

Businesses now cater to the rude really. How many times have you seen rude people given what they want just to shut them up and get them to leave? So its not even that there are no consequences. Actually all of us that aren't being rude and following the rules could be considered stupid because those that are rude are getting privileges we don't get.

Tolerance for rudeness really depends on the business, the town, the country, culture, and many other variables. But it's not dependent on the decade we live in. I've worked retail and many of my friends work retail. Most feel perfectly free to correct customers. I've seen a cashier give a customer a piece of her mind for not putting his empty cart away, leaving it to block the aisle. And that was last year!

If you break something in a store around here, you'd better believe you're paying for it.

So I'm sorry your husband isn't getting decent support from his management, and I'm sorry to hear that his business caters to rude people. But it's not like that everywhere. Remember - "the customer is always right" is a phrase that's been making retail worker's lives miserable since the late 19th century!

You guys might both enjoy these sites: http://notalwaysright.com/ (funny stories about badly behaved customers.) and http://notalwaysworking.com/ (funny stories about badly behaved staff).

 

[Aurora0427]

When sitting for parades & fireworks, you cannot leave any open space. At all. Ever. Because there will always be someone who squeezes in. We did FOF on Sunday. We had a fabulous curb side seat- my mom, daughter, and I sat in front, husband stood right behind us. He left a small space between my back and himself, and sure enough some lady tried to squeeze in last second. I grabbed his hand and pulled him forward and loudly said "you cannot leave space, these people don't care that we've been sitting here for 40 minutes. They'll stand right in front of you." She backed off and we happily enjoyed the parade.

 

[Hokie2000]

But no it's not. If there is open space why aren't people allowed to use it because other people want to sit? People sitting do not own the space around them and they do not trump others wishing to stand. I would never cut people off near ropes or anything, but if I'm on Main Street and there is an open bubble I have every reason to be able to stand there. Common courtesy is also not getting angry when people don't comply with your requests that they do something you want them to do, like sit.

We will have to agree to disagree here.

This post reminds me of something my little brother used to say to me - "Oh, how selfish of me. Let's do what YOU want to do."

I think that if people want a front-row seat then they need to sit up front. If you are not in the front row for a parade then chances are someone is going to be in front of you and you cannot control what they do. If you are in the front and someone tries to muscle in front of you they are undeniably rude.

 

[kamik86]

Tolerance for rudeness really depends on the business, the town, the country, culture, and many other variables. But it's not dependent on the decade we live in. I've worked retail and many of my friends work retail. Most feel perfectly free to correct customers. I've seen a cashier give a customer a piece of her mind for not putting his empty cart away, leaving it to block the aisle. And that was last year!

If you break something in a store around here, you'd better believe you're paying for it.

So I'm sorry your husband isn't getting decent support from his management, and I'm sorry to hear that his business caters to rude people. But it's not like that everywhere. Remember - "the customer is always right" is a phrase that's been making retail worker's lives miserable since the late 19th century!

You guys might both enjoy these sites: http://notalwaysright.com/ (funny stories about badly behaved customers.) and http://notalwaysworking.com/ (funny stories about badly behaved staff).

Yeah I was told about those links back when I was in college. Although it was never as bad in college because my management did call out students and even teachers when they were out of line.

My husband's job isn't the only place we see this though. How about Disney (its the disboards after all!) Line cutters aren't stopped. Using old mugs? Yeah most CMs won't say anything.

How many have seen CMs allow someone in line past a FP window for yelling and causing a scene?